It does feel arbitrary. I started a position recently that is WFH but offered to come to the office for an initial period to get acclimated. The office is mostly empty most of the time, so I figure if I'm getting the work done, call me acclimated and who cares about the office.
I did like the return to dressing better though. I might keep doing that.
> I did like the return to dressing better though. I might keep doing that.
Lol, dress codes were what I hated the most about the office. Although I always felt free to ignore them. I just work in a T-shirt, I need my arms free.
We have a choice of either 2-3 days at the office hot desking or 4+ days at the office with fixed desks. Most devs actually choose the latter, other staff prefer the former.
A hot desk is fine if you check email and chat on the phone. It doesn't work for a developer station that is set up to account for the programmer's idiosyncrasies.
I mean, you set up the extra monitors, the good keyboard, the mouse and that takes a while. Not to mention the ancillary devices needed for development
I think what really doesn't work is the open office gardens that are common these days.
When I started work I got my own office even as an intern. It was great to close the door when I needed to concentrate.
Now everyone around me is blabbing on headsets on all different calls and it's a waterfall of noise.
I've started to refuse going to the office if one of my "office days" is filled with online meetings (eg all-day workshop). There's just no point for me and for the others that do try to work.
I have 2 monitors with a particular setup, a laptop holder, a workstation that plugs into one of the two monitors for console, a hand-assembled mechanical keyboard and an ergo mouse. This setup is typical for a senior dev/engineer in my team, it's no surprise hotdesk does make any sense for devs.
Good, and it’s very telling people in power are afraid of the masses realizing how pointless and arbitrary all of it is, and how they don’t want people questioning things.
Gas prices are also a very good advertisement for WFH, where I live (not the US), gas is now the equivalent of 2.30$ a liter.
It's $6-7/gallon in Silicon Valley, so a bit under $1.89/liter, which is nuts for the US. If the taxes on it paid for trains or unicorns or something, I'd be fine with those prices, but they're mostly fixed (and now tiny, as a percentage) amounts per gallon, so it's pure profit for some business or another.
Who came up with the 40 hour work week? It always seemed to be excess.
I don’t foresee WFH to be the standard. There will be a cascading effect on many other sectors including commercial real estate, restaurant industries, public transport and eventually mental health because housing isn’t going to get cheaper when population expands exponentially. Not everyone has extra office space at home.
The solution lies in the middle. It would make more sense to at least halve work hours and have the option for hybrid work culture.
It’s not like we are hand writing ledgers at work. The nature of work has changed with computers and internet.
We can also expect work to be outsourced to cheaper locations as WFH becomes the norm. Why pay American salaries when it may as well be done at a fraction of the cost overseas. Perhaps this would
mean that there will be more emigration of English speaking American workforce to countries with lower cost of living.
Altho’ most of those are already over populated and have severe energy crunches/constraints. Not to mention the existence of local educated population that needs to be employed. Most countries aren’t privileged economically like the USA and rely on taxes from work force to keep the country running. Eventually, the cost of doing business overseas will become equal to doing it in America.
I do not see 100% WFH as a viable solution for majority of the population. I have only seen effective employees work longer hours. Can’t imagine how this will be beneficial for work/home balance or mental health.
If the case for WFH is made by beckoning high gas prices and long painful commute, then it is a failure on the part of govt for not supporting its working tax paying population with what is necessary to support commerce and the economy.
The Achilles heel of America is the lack of public transport network. If that one weakness in the system is remedied, so many issues from housing to cost of living to work/life balance to quality of life would be improved. The country would be overall more vibrant and happier. I can’t understand why this gaping hole of public transport has never been remedied.
From a macro economic pov, WFH will be an unmitigated disaster to the economy and GDP.
Manual blue collar work is also largely automated these days and doesn’t require that many man hours. I feel like we need a whole paradigm shift in how we look at ‘work’.
I farm and there is no way I can work 40 hours/week. I will drop dead from sheer exhaustion. When I was working restaurant jobs, we had a shift system and only one double shift per week…but only if the restaurant was super busy. Because I worked in fancy Michelin restaurants, we always knew bookings in advance. And because of the nature of the job, always one double shift/week.
In places like..McDonalds, it’s just a way to keep people on the payroll as they surely are not working 8 hours/everyday.
In the middle level jobs like management or even certain tech jobs, this will create a gap for incoming young workforce. Because the older workforce will simply be idle and can’t afford to retire(esp in America).
When young people should be employed and accumulating resources to start families, they are not gainfully employed. Older people cannot retire comfortably. More jobs would open up if we cut work hours to 20 hours/week.
Why do we need children to go back to schools? Adults need to socialization spaces too. WFH..it seems like..by my observations..has lead to increasingly isolationist tendencies.
In the long run, WFH will lead to mental health issues. Humans are social animals. The solution is flexible working hours and less number of working hours/week across the board. The 40 hrs/week is nonsense. We are faster and more efficient now in every kind of work we do.
From my limited gleaning of WFH experiences from others in different countries, I think only Americans seem to welcome it most. Perhaps this has something to do with the unsustainable painful commutes in American cities that relies on a fast moving box running on expensive fuel.
Not wanting to interact with others on a regular basis and in person is an anti social trait. We seem to on our way to normalize it just like we have normalised toxic/unsustainable work culture in America.
This is the isolationist crowd if there ever was one. The number of introverts in tech and software engineering is skewing this particular conversation.
I’ve worked from home for the last 11 years. And if I didn’t travel once a month, I would lose my mind. The pandemic was the most miserable 2 years of my life.
> WFH..it seems like..by my observations..has lead to increasingly isolationist tendencies.
I've never met my friends more than during covid. WFH means we could meet before work to go to the gym together, meet in the evening in a local bar/park.
Ditching commute saves me at least an hour a day in term of prep/travel time. The need for a work/life separation meant that when I was done I didn't want to stay home but preferred to go outside to do more social stuff.
Now I have to go back to the office once per week, I just sit there with 5 other dudes, typing on our keyboards, nobody talks besides the occasional awkward "weather chat". After the day I'm somehow exhausted and only want to go home and do nothing instead of going out and meeting people
I think you are commenting more that there's little home life with family, friends, and neighbors left. That's largely due to everyone working all the time tbh.
I don’t disageee. I don’t see much value in 100% on-site work, but at the same time..100% WFH is not viable or feasible and employers would never and can never agree to giving the employees that kind of bargaining power.
It is also an ‘American solution’ to an ‘American problem’ that is mostly a fantasy. It may work for a handful of tech industry trailblazers.
But it is interesting to note that the segment of WFH supporting population are largely from the same family of employees that were coddled by the likes of Google and Facebook who infantalised their employees in the name of work perks to make their workplace ‘fun’. They just overworked the kids. It backfired. It became a golden cage.
My point..I guess..is that neither extreme will work. Flexible models gives both employees and employers negotiating and bargaining power. There has to be some ‘give and play’ for both sides.
There must be a middle ground somewhere. Hybrid/flexible is the only fair and rational solution. I would propose 20 flexible hour work weeks with maybe half of those hours on demand onsite work depending on the kind of work.
The problem with this notion is the idea that I want to socialize with people I work with, when you hang out with co-workers all you do is talk about work.
I want to go to work get what I need to get done, stop working, then go off and do social things I want to do. Work is merely a means of cash flowing those things.
21 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 54.7 ms ] threadI did like the return to dressing better though. I might keep doing that.
Lol, dress codes were what I hated the most about the office. Although I always felt free to ignore them. I just work in a T-shirt, I need my arms free.
Maybe I just need a bit more time to adjust, but so far it’s an unequivocal downgrade in getting work done.
I mean, you set up the extra monitors, the good keyboard, the mouse and that takes a while. Not to mention the ancillary devices needed for development
When I started work I got my own office even as an intern. It was great to close the door when I needed to concentrate.
Now everyone around me is blabbing on headsets on all different calls and it's a waterfall of noise.
I've started to refuse going to the office if one of my "office days" is filled with online meetings (eg all-day workshop). There's just no point for me and for the others that do try to work.
Gas prices are also a very good advertisement for WFH, where I live (not the US), gas is now the equivalent of 2.30$ a liter.
I don’t foresee WFH to be the standard. There will be a cascading effect on many other sectors including commercial real estate, restaurant industries, public transport and eventually mental health because housing isn’t going to get cheaper when population expands exponentially. Not everyone has extra office space at home.
The solution lies in the middle. It would make more sense to at least halve work hours and have the option for hybrid work culture.
It’s not like we are hand writing ledgers at work. The nature of work has changed with computers and internet.
We can also expect work to be outsourced to cheaper locations as WFH becomes the norm. Why pay American salaries when it may as well be done at a fraction of the cost overseas. Perhaps this would mean that there will be more emigration of English speaking American workforce to countries with lower cost of living.
Altho’ most of those are already over populated and have severe energy crunches/constraints. Not to mention the existence of local educated population that needs to be employed. Most countries aren’t privileged economically like the USA and rely on taxes from work force to keep the country running. Eventually, the cost of doing business overseas will become equal to doing it in America.
I do not see 100% WFH as a viable solution for majority of the population. I have only seen effective employees work longer hours. Can’t imagine how this will be beneficial for work/home balance or mental health.
If the case for WFH is made by beckoning high gas prices and long painful commute, then it is a failure on the part of govt for not supporting its working tax paying population with what is necessary to support commerce and the economy.
The Achilles heel of America is the lack of public transport network. If that one weakness in the system is remedied, so many issues from housing to cost of living to work/life balance to quality of life would be improved. The country would be overall more vibrant and happier. I can’t understand why this gaping hole of public transport has never been remedied.
From a macro economic pov, WFH will be an unmitigated disaster to the economy and GDP.
I farm and there is no way I can work 40 hours/week. I will drop dead from sheer exhaustion. When I was working restaurant jobs, we had a shift system and only one double shift per week…but only if the restaurant was super busy. Because I worked in fancy Michelin restaurants, we always knew bookings in advance. And because of the nature of the job, always one double shift/week.
In places like..McDonalds, it’s just a way to keep people on the payroll as they surely are not working 8 hours/everyday.
In the middle level jobs like management or even certain tech jobs, this will create a gap for incoming young workforce. Because the older workforce will simply be idle and can’t afford to retire(esp in America).
When young people should be employed and accumulating resources to start families, they are not gainfully employed. Older people cannot retire comfortably. More jobs would open up if we cut work hours to 20 hours/week.
In the long run, WFH will lead to mental health issues. Humans are social animals. The solution is flexible working hours and less number of working hours/week across the board. The 40 hrs/week is nonsense. We are faster and more efficient now in every kind of work we do.
From my limited gleaning of WFH experiences from others in different countries, I think only Americans seem to welcome it most. Perhaps this has something to do with the unsustainable painful commutes in American cities that relies on a fast moving box running on expensive fuel.
Not wanting to interact with others on a regular basis and in person is an anti social trait. We seem to on our way to normalize it just like we have normalised toxic/unsustainable work culture in America.
I’ve worked from home for the last 11 years. And if I didn’t travel once a month, I would lose my mind. The pandemic was the most miserable 2 years of my life.
I've never met my friends more than during covid. WFH means we could meet before work to go to the gym together, meet in the evening in a local bar/park.
Ditching commute saves me at least an hour a day in term of prep/travel time. The need for a work/life separation meant that when I was done I didn't want to stay home but preferred to go outside to do more social stuff.
Now I have to go back to the office once per week, I just sit there with 5 other dudes, typing on our keyboards, nobody talks besides the occasional awkward "weather chat". After the day I'm somehow exhausted and only want to go home and do nothing instead of going out and meeting people
It is also an ‘American solution’ to an ‘American problem’ that is mostly a fantasy. It may work for a handful of tech industry trailblazers.
But it is interesting to note that the segment of WFH supporting population are largely from the same family of employees that were coddled by the likes of Google and Facebook who infantalised their employees in the name of work perks to make their workplace ‘fun’. They just overworked the kids. It backfired. It became a golden cage.
My point..I guess..is that neither extreme will work. Flexible models gives both employees and employers negotiating and bargaining power. There has to be some ‘give and play’ for both sides.
There must be a middle ground somewhere. Hybrid/flexible is the only fair and rational solution. I would propose 20 flexible hour work weeks with maybe half of those hours on demand onsite work depending on the kind of work.