I wonder how this will affect the "Big Tech" vs. startup calculation, which has gotten steadily worse for startups over the past ~20 years.
If you can get a job now with a FAANG (though more and more the "N" there looks less warranted), you'll be "buying" relatively low when it comes to your equity comp, so there is a good chance your total comp over the next 4 years will be exceedingly difficult for a startup to beat, even if they hit.
Remote work seems like it would naturally lead to outsourcing. Why pay Bay Area salaries to people in low cost areas who are willing to work for much less?
If you check out forums like blind - you will find pretty much FRESH GRADUATES considering turning down $250k offers, because they're sure they can get closer to $300k, if they just grind a bit more leetcode and get more competing offers.
We're talking about people with practically 0-1 years of experience. Sure, they probably have degrees from prestigious schools, and lots of potential - but so are the devs. you'll find in other places.
For that kind of money, you can get the cream of the crop in Europe - and someone with probably close to a decade of relevant high impact / high performance experience.
How worried should I be as someone who is relatively new to the world of programming? I’ve been freelancing as a dev/designer for the past few years and seen a lot of success, but I’ve been considering applying to some more traditional positions that have caught my eye recently.
Don’t be worried at all. Software has been one of the most in demand skills for the last 10 years and will still be over the next 10 years. Salaries at the very top end might go down. Open vacancies might reduce. Even in the worst case scenario, any software engineer will be in a much better position than 95% of other professions. Economic recessions affect many different industries.
If we look away from the time zone difference, I just don't see how the US-based programmers will be able to compete against - say - European programmers, if the WFH trend continues. If WFH is truly here to stay, then that's one protective barrier down. The language barrier is almost non-existent these days, as most European devs can communicate just fine. The time zone is another, which I think is harder to overcome...but it's usually worse for the Europeans. At least with one European MS office, meetings would have to follow Seattle time.
I'm not saying this to put down all the excellent US devs and engineers - but when total compensation in the US can be 2-4 times higher than in very comparable European countries, at least you know there are many European devs that would grab the chance even at a steep discount. US(ish) salaries without having to move to the US is a very nice situation for devs in various European countries.
But all in all, I'm really excited to see what the WFH trend will bring us on a global level.
Conversely highly paid Bay Area engineers would probably just move somewhere cheaper (maybe Europe?) if salaries drop. No point in paying ridiculously high rent if you're not getting ridiculously high compensation.
In my experience EU (particularly NL/FR/DE) engineers have a very different understanding of the level of effort work should entail, and general work/life balance. Perhaps it has something to do with the different level of social “safety net” or just chalk it up to culture.
US startup folks seem to think they should work quite a bit harder in terms of time and more importantly in terms of intensity. EU folks seem to think the intensity should be lower.
My limited experience suggests intensity loosely correlates with success, but is dominated by chance.
As a European I work hard but do expect labour laws to be respected, if that's what you mean. Minimum of 22 days annual vacation (that I use 100% of), paid sick leave, 14 national holidays per year, etc.
I’m shocked, absolutely shocked, that now that US developers have voluntarily chosen to rid themselves of agglomeration benefits their salaries are converging with those in the rest of the world.
I know there’s a lot of enthusiasm about indefinite WFH but shouldn’t there be fear as well?
I’m just graduating from Radiology residency and telerads is definitely a career opportunity - but really only because of reimbursement from Medicare. You have to be in a US state or territory to get full reimbursement. For me that’s a fortunate insulating moat that protects me and other American physicians from international competition.
An international radiologist can dictate studies but only as a preliminary status which then require a second look and report finalized by a stateside physician.
To my point - what is the tech workers moat? How will they insulate themselves from international competition?
If I can’t do remote anymore because of international competition then I’ll move on site and do procedures as well as read, which obviously off site personnel can’t do. I don’t like that kind of work, but I’ll do it. What will tech workers do?
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[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 50.2 ms ] threadIf you can get a job now with a FAANG (though more and more the "N" there looks less warranted), you'll be "buying" relatively low when it comes to your equity comp, so there is a good chance your total comp over the next 4 years will be exceedingly difficult for a startup to beat, even if they hit.
The writing is definitely on the wall.
If you check out forums like blind - you will find pretty much FRESH GRADUATES considering turning down $250k offers, because they're sure they can get closer to $300k, if they just grind a bit more leetcode and get more competing offers.
We're talking about people with practically 0-1 years of experience. Sure, they probably have degrees from prestigious schools, and lots of potential - but so are the devs. you'll find in other places.
For that kind of money, you can get the cream of the crop in Europe - and someone with probably close to a decade of relevant high impact / high performance experience.
I'm not saying this to put down all the excellent US devs and engineers - but when total compensation in the US can be 2-4 times higher than in very comparable European countries, at least you know there are many European devs that would grab the chance even at a steep discount. US(ish) salaries without having to move to the US is a very nice situation for devs in various European countries.
But all in all, I'm really excited to see what the WFH trend will bring us on a global level.
Could you elaborate on this?
My limited experience suggests intensity loosely correlates with success, but is dominated by chance.
I’m just graduating from Radiology residency and telerads is definitely a career opportunity - but really only because of reimbursement from Medicare. You have to be in a US state or territory to get full reimbursement. For me that’s a fortunate insulating moat that protects me and other American physicians from international competition.
An international radiologist can dictate studies but only as a preliminary status which then require a second look and report finalized by a stateside physician.
To my point - what is the tech workers moat? How will they insulate themselves from international competition?
If I can’t do remote anymore because of international competition then I’ll move on site and do procedures as well as read, which obviously off site personnel can’t do. I don’t like that kind of work, but I’ll do it. What will tech workers do?