Ask HN: How can we lay people off without cruelty?
I know we’re gonna do the basics as best we can of course: more than 2 months’ redundancy package, try and find roles for people as best we can, do the paperwork right so they can claim anything they need to.
I want to know your advice for the human element; how to tell people and not be cruel. How to balance that against honestly trying to save what we can.
Eg. I hate that when I read stories about layoffs it always comes as this awful surprise and then you have to immediately leave, it’s so abrupt how can you say goodbye properly? But that seems to be some protection against someone acting in a way they normally wouldn’t and doing something destructive in the heat of the moment. How can we possibly preserve both properties?
We want to tell people one-at-a-time and in-person. Is this best? Why do companies even mass-tell people? But then I don’t know how anyone can keep their composure going back to their desk to pick things up though... Quickly word would get out, diminishing the point of telling people one-at-a-time. Where to have these conversations is also an issue, the office is pretty small. And we need to have a lot of them in just a short time too.
It’s going to be awful regardless, but I would like any advice on how to make it the least awful. The least-awful, that is, for those who have to leave; since if I get the dubious privilege of riding the death spiral a bit longer then we can leave my own feelings out of this.
85 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 184 ms ] threadOne thing that seems popular is a mass notification that says "hey everyone, layoffs are coming, we'll notify each of you individually whether you're affected or not." I suppose you could do the in-person meetings after that, and that might be okay for a small shop like yours, but it also seems like it might drag things out? I wouldn't want to be sitting around wondering if I'm going to be the next person called into the HR office.
Two, avoid saying anything about how hard this was for you. They do not care.
It is definitely best to tell people in person, and individually. I don't have any advice as to how to do so in a small space. It is for the best to restrict access to sensitive systems once a person is laid off, but you can keep them access to slack or email so people can say goodbye if they'd like.
If it's a few people, sure you don't need to tell the whole company. If it's half the company, you need to let everyone know.
> Two, avoid saying anything about how hard this was for you. They do not care.
I totally agree. Management should accept responsibility, and acknowledge how hard it is for the employees. And then let people know what's going to happen next. What severance and job placement looks like, etc (ps have that figured out). If you can adjourn for the rest of the day, that's good too.
If there's anyone not present for the big meeting, try to notify them directly asap, too.
You're right that my own issues are secondary, my family will support me there. My duty is to those who are being laid off, and then to those who are staying but losing their close coworkers.
If not, it’s going to come off as pretty hollow.
We have our own ideas about who we would like to stay (I mean, aside from "everyone" :( ), but we plan to tell everyone the severance package so that anyone we want to stay can still make their own decision with all the info.
This means then we need an idea of "if X doesn't stay, who Y should we ask to stay instead?", which comes uncomfortably close to stack-ranking.
Of course, in the current climate with so much bad news, the optimism about finding a new job might be curtailed.
That's sort of my assumption right now, but while enough are still here I plan to see if I can make it work for them.
Announcement is good, honesty is good, punishment for higher ups is absolutely required (and announced), future plans need to be announced on how to save the company financially and ensure those who stay won't have a problem in a near future.
In my situation you end up with the 'worst' half, but they're also the ones least likely to leave since they have fewer prospects.
I realize that we want layoffs to be humane, but putting the company in a worse spot than it is at present doesn't help anyone.
I've had to layoff direct reports during multiple layoff waves at a couple different companies. (Moreover, I myself have been laid off when a small company went out of business or when a business unit was eliminated.) I don't think it's difficult to avoid cruelty during a layoff, you just have to be very honest and make it clear that it is not personal. The announcement should be company-wide, but then talk to each person individually or in small teams if possible, and afterward go together offsite to a bar/restaurant and hang out with everyone who can join.
Honestly in many cases it's better for them to move on rather than go down with a sinking ship. In tech over the past couple decades there's always been jobs elsewhere for engineers, even after the dotcom bust. I have tried to help place people elsewhere using my network and told them I'd give them a good reference if they needed one. HR tends to discourage you from making an extra effort like this -- e.g. "you should only acknowledge that they worked at the company, don't give a recommendation" -- because a recommendation can become a liability, but I feel it's my recommendation as their direct manager and I am taking personal liability for it.
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There's something else I'd add -- not about layoffs but related to firing people. Even if you're firing someone for performance reasons, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE CRUEL. I've seen so many people get fired in such a cruel manner, and it's totally unnecessary. There's absolutely no need for the manager to have any sense of anger or betrayal over a person's poor performance in a role.
Someone's performance in a particular role in a particular company has nothing to do with that person's worth as an employee. It was always just a bad fit, or a bad situation -- it doesn't mean that this is a bad person or even a bad worker, and should not reflect upon their self-worth. In my career, I've had to fire two people for performance reasons, and both times I made this difference clear, and thankfully we were able to actually maintain a friendship afterwards.
Okay, so it sounds like company-wide announcement first and then start getting into the 1:1s quickly to prevent people from suffering in purgatory.
Being let go is definitely not personal for anyone, it's not a cheeky excuse to let go the low performers. I'd keep them all if I could, I've got good references for everyone, we got phenomenally lucky with hiring - just not phenomenally lucky with everything else.
I've worked at places where I can't do things like: give realistic interview feedback, give proper references to people leaving; I hated it. Now that I'm in a leadership position - as badly as it has turned out - I can at least make my choice to do these basic humane things.
One other note: you are transitioning company size. You were on the cusp of midsize and you are right back to startup. Make your choices accordingly. Even if someone was going to be great at 50->100 they may be the wrong person for 25. Keep the scrappy, true-believer do-ers. You’ll need them.
- Job help, docs, classes on how to get a job
- Leadership should share consequences, at a minimum salary reductions. This is important because typically bad decisions come from the top, while the folks at the bottom suffer from them.
- Be completely honest at every point.
- Look 'em straight in the eye, tell them you're sorry because XYZ.
It happens. Don't beat yourself up over it. I've been laid off in the past and it was ultimately positive. Got a break and it led to better opportunities.
Being honest should be easy, because I will lose nothing by doing it.
I've run interviewing workshops in the past; as part of a diversity outreach programme for a FAANG and also just for friends looking for career changes/upgrades. So I'm sure I could put something together for anyone who feels rusty.
It's just symbolic, but if you want to save face, this is how you do it. Nothing else will matter if you and the leadership that caused this don't take a salary cut.
Your job is to move the company forward.
This is especially important for employees with families since they often have a spouse or some kid needing health insurance. The loss of a job is dangerous for their lives.
My first job in the industry, I was in a five person department that needed to reduce it's headcount by one. I can tell you that had someone laid someone off, it would've been me, just because of the needed experience and locations and stuff like that. Though it was never said at the time, it just is the logical call.
Anyways, my boss chose instead to furlough the entire department one day a week. Obviously we lost 20% of our pay and had an extra day off a week. I found it actually really nice at the time because my income was well above my spending then, and I had a weekday off for doctor's appointments and post office trips and stuff which is hard to do when you 9-5 Mon-Fri. But obviously the company was in a weak spot, so I also started looking for a new job.
When I found one, everyone else in my department went back to full time, I never had a gap that prevented me from covering my bills. I am still super grateful to that employer for how they handled this.
I'd call it a "layoff" if it is expected that business conditions will improve and employees will be given the option to continue their employment at that time.
If it's a permanent situation then I'd call it something else like "dismissal for business reasons" or "downsizing due to market conditions."
Personally what I'd love to see companies do is:
- executive staff and management taking pay cuts (ideally zero pay for C-level execs and directors) first
- offering an option of reduced hours and/or pay
- offering an option to return to work if business conditions are expected to improve
- offering ownership or open source agreements for canceled projects if possible
- providing at least six months of severance pay for anyone who is dismissed, paid immediately along with full vacation and sick day allowances
- immediately vesting any pending equity and options for anyone who is dismissed
- providing office space and placement services which people can use while looking for a new job
- working with other companies to provide jobs, even temporary or contract jobs
- eliminating noncompete restrictions if any
- telling everyone at the same time, as soon as possible
- honestly explaining the situation and how and why people were selected
- honestly explaining the company's financial situation
- being open to creative suggestions from employees for alternative options
- giving two weeks' notice, much as employees would be expected to do
- sponsor a company alumni organization (startupalumni.org) with social events, seminars, and other events, to enable people to keep in touch
- provide alumni email addresses (@startupalumni.org)
It is a layoff by your terminology, because we're in that insane VC-money world ("poison pill" as I've seen it called on here!) where it's "go big or go home". So the plan is we win it all back, and we re-hire everyone (although who would ever re-join after a layoff I don't know, but that would be the plan), the alternative is complete shutting down.
Re: exec staff pay cut. We can't lay people off to save ourselves, that's sociopathic. I can't do $0 though, I get paid 20% more than a senior engineer here, and I've not got capital investments.
Re: reduced hours/pay (or furloughing as someone else called it) is a great idea. I used to dream of the 4-day work week, ideally under better conditions...
Not enough money in the bank to do 6 months severance, but more than 2 is available along with all leave.
We'll lose the office too, so can't do office-space :(
Most of the others are doable I reckon!
Colloquially we say 'fired' when the contract is terminated by the employer for any reason (or no reason), but at least in California, the EDD understands this as 'fired for cause', i.e. misconduct, which makes you ineligible for benefits.
I got the impression, that those who are capable of correctly filing an UI benefits claim by themselves are those who need those benefits the least.
One can dream, but sadly I’ve never ever seen this happen.
Don't pull shit off like "you have 30 mins. to empty your workspace" or "this guard will escort you outside".
Quickly and deliberately.
The mitigations are things like severance and job search help.
Talking about how bad you feel having to do it is not less cruel.
The cruelest part of layoffs is false hope.
You knew today and it was Friday.
It should have happened by the end of business.
Good luck.
I do not plan to say anything about "my feelings", nor to try and be presumptive and give speeches about "their feelings". Our staff will see deeper than platitudes now, just as they have always been above thinking that free beer and pizza compensates for work-life balance.
Everyone that is staying leaves the office at some point early, before anyone could be thinking about lunch. They don't all leave together, some just don't come in.
There is a company wide announcement for an immediate meeting. Nearly all attending are layoffs. It's a nice touch if the CEO or President is there and says some nice things, or whomever your best aural talent is. You have them lay out the facts, thank them, wish them luck. That's it. Give them time to process and start moving at their own volitions, and respect them as civilized individuals.
Yes, be humane. Yes, be honest. But also be careful. You will be surprised by who becomes litigious. Avoiding lawsuits will help you continue being humane to those still employed.
1. Is your employment practice liability insurance policy up to date?
2. Say nothing about why a particular person was chosen. Saying you let someone go because they are expensive, if they are over 40, could open you up to an age discrimination suit.
3. Have two people on the call with each person. One to deliver news. One to take notes.
4. Have IT terminate their access as you start the conversation with each person. If someone needs access to get family photos or something, you can help them later.
It sucks, but it is also rather routine event. Two months severance is very generous if you really are in desperate straits.
Good luck.
Two against one does not seem like the most humane way to do it IMO.
> 4. Have IT terminate their access as you start the conversation with each person. If someone needs access to get family photos or something, you can help them later.
What about sending a message to all your friends at work with your new email address, so they can reach you later?
It's not about us-vs-them or 2-v-1. This is about liability and accountability - especially if the affected person is/can/will-be litigious. You would be very surprised what some people "hear" during a normal conversation. A simple passing phrase like "I wish I could keep you on, but" could be misconstrued to something completely different like discrimination (age, gender, etc).
I have read many comments but the cruelest part for me is that when this starts nobody feels safe and you don't want this feeling to stick around with the ones that stay.
It's better if people leave the same day to avoid sabotage and helps to turn the page fast.
And be aware that your culture will be hit and you will loose more people that the ones you are letting go.
2. Provide a promise of positive references and access to managers after termination.
3. Allow plenty of time for folks to say goodbye to coworkers and gather their their things in their own time.
4. Consider contacting recruiters to let them know that folks may want to contact them.
5. Be grateful for the effort that these people have given to your company.
6. Make sure that HR will make it a priority to assist in the transition and answer any and all questions for several weeks after termination.
7. Remember that a large termination will send shock waves through your staff, so expect good people to leave after a termination event. Do whatever you need to do to keep good people happy.
That sounds to me like the most humane way to go. Kind of wake for the company as it existed so far. Let people mourn together.
At the point where you have to lay off 50% of your staff it's already apparent that you can't BS your way out of trouble.
You probably don't want to give away the exact financials (runway/funding/expenses/customer numbers), but you can still be specific without that. Like "We hired you because we wanted to deliver X in Y months. We took the risk to be the first on the market, but it didn't work out. With the departure of the XYZ customer, we simply don't have enough cash to keep paying the salaries.". Make sure it reads more as a personal email than a soulless press-release with "given the worrying situation", "on our journey" and other BS phrases.
Bear in mind that people will inevitably question "why I got laid off why John from team B did not". If you want to reduce this stress, find a good formal explanation (like we are forced to close feature X because we lost customer Y, and hence are laying off the folks that worked on it).
Otherwise, good references, decent severance. Canceling some externally observable verifiable bonus for yourself could somewhat reduce the tension. You could forfeit that annual board meeting in Hawaii, but buy a hell lot of goodwill from people that worked with you (and that will still be in your network) by being public about that. It could pay off nicely some years from now.
The whole day will be bad. It’ll become clear quickly that those with meetings scheduled are getting laid off. People will wait around for their turn. Others will get out of there fast.
When I got laid off, they divided the team up into two rooms. It turned out one was the people who were getting laid off, the other staying. It was apparently horrific.
I was actually on vacation at the time and not there to see it go down. Instead I had the founder call me on the phone to lay me off. He was more upset about it than me. I appreciated the personal call but found the “this is hard for me too” of the founder annoying at the time. I was losing my income. He still got to be the founder.
If i would live in a country with more guns than people i would not want a bunch of former employees with a grudge against me...