I thought I'd seen those in stations of a different Asian metro...had a look around for photos.* In the few systems I checked, 3D maps can be seen in Beijing Subway,[1] Seoul Metro,[2] and Shanghai Metro;[3] plus this station in Tokyo, albeit a rail-metro station.[4] Tokyo Metro also has detailed, unusually discoverable 3D maps online.[5]
Counterexample: Guangzhou Metro doesn't seem to have any, despite its modern look.[6] Speaking of which, these new systems all look remarkably similar. Is there only a single manufacturer of platform screen doors and tactile paving? Even Delhi Metro, with very few photos, has that same look in its newer stations.[7]
* Turns out, image search (every service) fails terribly at this: All the results for maps are system maps; can't tease out a single station map for most systems. Photos of station interiors should show the actual posted maps, then? Nope. 90% of results are identical shots down the length of a platform. Turns out, it's Wikimedia Commons to the rescue
Many aren't very detailed. I could do with more detail on e.g. King's Cross, a station where it's easy to be suckered into a much longer walk to / from your platform if you don't know some of the shortcuts.
The axonometric diagrams are only intended to be used as a location guide. They are part of larger Station Layout documents which have very detailed 2D plans for every part of the station. The axonometric diagrams therefore provide the overall view, including (in the original document) reference numbers for the individual drawings, like a sort of contents page.
King's Cross St. Pancras, for example, has 20+ pages of detailed 2D plans, covering the entrances, ticket halls, platforms, escalator areas, vent shafts and so on.
There’s a few tours of the deep level facilities on YouTube now - fascinating from a Cold War civil defence perspective (things you thought you’d never see, even second hand):
London has recently completed the ~ 20 billion pound Crossrail project after some 8 years or more of planning and tunneling.
Part of that was creating "vibration free" railway lines that pass some 17m or so directly under world class concert halls and major recording studios.
A small part of some major engineering in a heavily built up constricted environment.
Interesting how some of the station diagrams look like Escher drawings -- something about the crossover of escalator/stairs is drawn with a funny perspective?
Angel is a fascinating station - it used to be an island platform like Clapham Common and Clapham North, but was rebuilt in the early 90's due to safety concerns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_tube_station#Station_reb...) and until Terminal 5 opened, had the longest escalators in the UK.
My sister used to draw pedestrian maps of the Paris metro, to discover the “One way” paths that you can take upstream (can, but may not!). Sometimes a 100m walk can become 5m. Very uncitizenly of her, but very amusing.
Slightly disappointed by the absence of Stratford (which has its own tube-style map for navigating the station, although does include national rail, etc.) but otherwise very cool.
An axonometric diagram exists for Stratford (actually, there are two -- one for the platform levels and one for the subway levels). I'm not sure why they weren't included in the Freedom of Information response; it could have been for security reasons.
Parts of the station are owned by Network Rail, parts are owned by TfL who manages the overall station (but there are also staff from the individual train operating companies).
The TfL station layout covers the entire station, and shows which parts are owned by TfL and which aren't.
With the amount of terrorist attacks that have been conducted in subway stations, especially in London, it seems quite irresponsible to publicize these.
Can you expand on what exactly the threat might be? How is a 3D map more dangerous than a 2D map? And these are public spaces, it’s not like it’s some secret information.
A threat actor might rapidly scan potential targets to optimize for points of congestion, escape routes etc. If they had surveyed the area manually, they'd likely be captured on CCTV cameras, which would later aid investigators in tracking them down.
I was not specifically talking about 3D vs. 2D, btw.
Do you really think that the couple hours it saves by having these maps to hand instead of a terrorist going to the station and making their own map of the public space is going to mean the difference between an attack and no attack? Get real. Let’s just get rid of all maps then hmm? Security risk.
While I don’t agree with the sentiment that it’s irresponsible to publish these maps, I don’t think you should underestimate how lazy the average person is, including terrorists. It often baffles me how utterly ineffective most terrorists are (which I guess , among other things, comes down to “bad”/lazy planning), only managing to kill maybe a handful of people, if even that.
Most people wouldn’t be very interested in being so nerdy as to map out the London Underground. Why would most terrorists be any different?
No, but it could make the difference between a poor attack and a very effective attack. The point being that subways are particularly vulnerable points.
Do you think that all maps and other forms of architectural or engineering schemas should be widely publicised, without individual regard to their potential for exploit?
These diagrams were based on some provided by TFL in response to a Freedom of Information request. They redacted areas where "disclosure of the
information requested would be likely to adversely affect the safety and
security of TfL employees and members of the general public." [0]
Fantastic! That means they at least have made _some_ ethical editorial decisions, and didn't conform to some naïve conception that all information should be widely publicized regardless of the potential for adverse effects.
It also means that one could make one's own survey, and then compare the differences between it and the publicly-available maps, which may highlight potential points of interest.
Which terrorist attacks in London subway stations are you referring to? I've lived here for more than 30 years and can't think of a single terrorist attack in an tube station.
I don't think the maps are an issue either, but you pretending to be ignorant that they are attacked, and that lines between them are attacked, is weird.
I'm not pretending trains aren't being attacked and it's incredibly disingenuous that you need to pretend that's what I'm saying.
What I'm saying maps of STATIONS have nothing to do with TRAINS being attacked. It seems like you think trains and stations are the same thing, and that's something you'll need to figure out for yourself.
I've lived in London for 30 years. My partner was 2 trains ahead of the one that detonated at Edgware Road. You're a toy soldier and you can just admit you don't know the difference between trains and stations.
It was in a train carriage of a train which had just left Edgware Road station. We use the label "Edgware Road" to identify which of the bombings it was.
Yeah, nothing of consequence in the last 30 years. Appreciate your overwrought concern, but Londoners aren't too worried about maps of stations being public lol.
Vienna public transport published an AR application for Android where you can explore new WIP stations as actual 3D objects [1]
There is also a video demo if you do not want to download the bloated App. [2]
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[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 50.4 ms ] threadLooks a lot less cooler than these diagrams, but (may) work for more stations.
https://www.mtr.com.hk/en/customer/services/system_map.html
for example:
https://www.mtr.com.hk/archive/ch/services/layouts/hok.pdf
or
https://www.mtr.com.hk/archive/ch/services/layouts/kot.pdf
Counterexample: Guangzhou Metro doesn't seem to have any, despite its modern look.[6] Speaking of which, these new systems all look remarkably similar. Is there only a single manufacturer of platform screen doors and tactile paving? Even Delhi Metro, with very few photos, has that same look in its newer stations.[7]
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Clockwise_platform_p...
[2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bongcheon_Stn._Platf...
[3] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:201610_Platform_for_...
[4] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tokyu-railway-TY01-S...
[5] https://www.tokyometro.jp/lang_en/station/otemachi/index.htm...
[6] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tianhe_Park_Station_...
[7] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Delhi_Airport_Metro_...
* Turns out, image search (every service) fails terribly at this: All the results for maps are system maps; can't tease out a single station map for most systems. Photos of station interiors should show the actual posted maps, then? Nope. 90% of results are identical shots down the length of a platform. Turns out, it's Wikimedia Commons to the rescue
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/taiwan/comments/5vaz30/beautifully_...
I swear there isn't really a tube - you just walk to your destination underground and the train is an illusion.
It's just there to hide the level loading.
King's Cross St. Pancras, for example, has 20+ pages of detailed 2D plans, covering the entrances, ticket halls, platforms, escalator areas, vent shafts and so on.
Belsize Park may be one of the deep shelter stations?
Semi-accessible currently and is known within the urbex community
https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/belsize-park-deep-leve...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZDs9pgO8VQ
Part of that was creating "vibration free" railway lines that pass some 17m or so directly under world class concert halls and major recording studios.
A small part of some major engineering in a heavily built up constricted environment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOu56s6kUj4
https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/hidden-london
More details here: https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/hidden-london
Angel is a fascinating station - it used to be an island platform like Clapham Common and Clapham North, but was rebuilt in the early 90's due to safety concerns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_tube_station#Station_reb...) and until Terminal 5 opened, had the longest escalators in the UK.
The TfL station layout covers the entire station, and shows which parts are owned by TfL and which aren't.
I was not specifically talking about 3D vs. 2D, btw.
Most people wouldn’t be very interested in being so nerdy as to map out the London Underground. Why would most terrorists be any different?
Do you think that all maps and other forms of architectural or engineering schemas should be widely publicised, without individual regard to their potential for exploit?
[0] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/maps_of_public_corrid...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings
> an explosion occurred on a District line train at Parsons Green Underground station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsons_Green_train_bombing
Is that a concrete-enough example?
I don't think the maps are an issue either, but you pretending to be ignorant that they are attacked, and that lines between them are attacked, is weird.
What I'm saying maps of STATIONS have nothing to do with TRAINS being attacked. It seems like you think trains and stations are the same thing, and that's something you'll need to figure out for yourself.
> detonated at Edgware Road
Said it yourself!
It was in a train carriage of a train which had just left Edgware Road station. We use the label "Edgware Road" to identify which of the bombings it was.
I'm genuinely embarrassed for you at this point.
or go directly here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_the_London_Undergro...
[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.scalamatta... [2] https://youtu.be/EVq0D5K8dRc