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Ask HN: How to get job without technical interview?

16 points by websitescenes ↗ HN
I am an accomplished full stack software engineer with a wide range of experience and a proven track record of delivering products but I regularly bomb coding/technical interviews because of my ADHD/ASD. Why won’t companies just hire me on my track record?

38 comments

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muzani
Startups will often take anyone who's willing to apply, and your full stack experience will come in handy too.

Another alternative is contracting. Those who hire contractors usually don't have the manpower to test extensively, and they're more likely to trust you to deliver. Or not care that much because you'll be working on a non-core element.

websitescenes
I am really invested in the things I do and put everything I have into them. I prefer to think like a product owner so contacting is out. While I’d have more autonomy, I’d have less say on the product and would find that unfulfilling.

I had the same idea about startups but have failed numerous technical interviews for positions I was probably overqualified for. Even asked a few for accommodations for my ASD/ADHD in testing but no go.

muzani
Depends on who you contract for. I've done contracts as "first engineer". Many are from rich people who own a factory and such but know nothing about apps. Some from people who are good at raising money, but not hiring; people who are qualified to be tech leads can be very picky.

Some have a loose idea of what they want but need someone to guide them on what is or isn't possible. There's room for mistakes, and some flexibility.

dam_broke_it
Very few places use contractors in IT; more accurately use perma-temps.

Same meat grinder approach to hiring a perm.

muzani
Permatemp roles are more abundant and pay better. But the others are not that rare. I never had difficulty finding these roles; it's been more work turning away clients than marketing. YMMV.

Many are those are dead end projects that never get off the ground, or don't have enough budget for a marketing team and a full MVP. Many are part time founders who make good money and want to throw money at a side project, but aren't fully focused. There's a lot of downsides to the path too.

mattcdrake
Do you have advice about where to find startup jobs?

I know about HN's "Who is hiring?" post but I'm interested in other sources too.

tapeloop
go for senior positions - they tend to skip the live tech interview side and focus more on decision making
websitescenes
I’ve been finding that the senior tests are typically the hardest technical interviews. While it’s almost always something that I could easily do on the job, I find it hard to perform on the spot and observed because of my ADHD/ASD.

I nail any conversation that is just about approach or decision making. I could talk about software and the theories behind it allll day long. The problems start with the technical test.

websitescenes
I even had a YC “mental health” company refuse to consider and accommodate my request for a different technical interview format because of my ASD/ADHD..
glassary
The thing you’re perhaps running into is that plenty of people, supposedly very qualified folks, can talk at a high level but can’t actually do the job — can’t even string a handful of lines of code together.
websitescenes
That’s definitely not me. I can run circles around most in backend, front end and even devops. My issue is with interview formats that are not conducive to my special needs and not representative of my true skills. Most tests are very neurotypically centered. Give me a take home test and I’ll blow your mind.
warrenm
...depending on the type of "senior" role, absolutely

when I interview for senior positions, I'm instantly turned off when I start getting trivia questions related to things that are clearly documented (like "which config file option does X") whereas situational or scenario-based questions are highly relevant and useful

As I wrote over a decade ago in how I do interviews[0],

>What I try to NEVER ask:

> “trivia” questions – I bet there are C questions even K&R couldn’t answer > - I guarantee I can ask you a question about your area of expertise you cannot answer…just like I guarantee you could do the same to me > - since that is the case, trivia questions are pretty pointless, and more of an ego stroke to the asker than anything else > pointless “MindTrap“, lateral-thinking questions - riddles are fun – but only add to the stress of the interview (like “why are manhole covers round”) > pointless problem-solving and estimation problems > - for example, “how would you move Mt Fuji”, or “how many gallons of water flow into New York Harbor from the Hudson River per hour” > - estimation problems are wonderful tools and games to play, but not in an interview

The best questions are practical application questions based on scenarios (real or plausibly-imagined) that discover what assumptions you make, what help you want/need, etc

----------------

[0] https://antipaucity.com/2011/10/03/doing-technical-phone-scr...

warrenm
>Why won’t companies just hire me on my track record?

How do you propose to demonstrate your "track record" without a technical interview?

websitescenes
This is something I have been trying to do. I made https://websitescenes.com for that purpose but maybe it’s not giving the impression I had hoped. Also considering open sourcing some NFT tooling I’ve been working on. Super open to ideas here. I think about this a lot.
crayboff
A portfolio is a great start, but how would a potential employer know you weren't lying/plagerizing/etc without some sort of technical test?
websitescenes
I mean don’t most places have a 30 day trial period or something built in? Seems like minimal risk to me.
nojito
Hiring someone is extremely expensive and a massive time sink.
websitescenes
Is it though? I tend to let people go pretty quickly if they don’t work out. But I’ve found some real gems because I’ve taken a chance on someone in the past. How do you quantify the cost of missing out on good people that you just assumed didn’t fit the mold? How expensive is that?
moooo99
> How do you quantify the cost of missing out on good people that you just assumed didn’t fit the mold? How expensive is that?

That is a cost that isn't easily quantifiable. However, the cost of wrong hires is easily quantifiable based on the time effort required to (attempt) to get a new hire going.

Considering that most companies are looking to minimize risk and the potential benefit is not quantifiable I would estimate the chances to skip the interviewing process as minimal.

b20000
if the interviewer is competent he will know you wrote the code.

if he does not know, then this means coding interviews do not actually optimize for competent people.

are you afraid to find out the latter might be the case?

websitescenes
Are you insinuating that someone with ASD/ADHD is incompetent because they would need special considerations when testing?
warrenm
I have a blog

And my LinkedIn history

And a resume

So does everyone else (well...maybe minus the blog)

And yet people lie (or don't tell the truth) on their resume and LI profiles all the danged time

websitescenes
I think asking for references would easily remedy this.
ThrowawayR2
References are worthless because nobody is going to give references that badmouth them.
websitescenes
Even if they come from reputable and we’ll respected individuals in the field?
warrenm
Let's say I give you three well-respected folks as "references"

That's cool - do you know them?

I'm only going to ever give you people who'll give me a good reference

So asking for references is pretty pointless

b20000
show code, open source or not, and talk about it.
ramphastidae
I think you would benefit from changing your attitude a bit. You’re not going to change the system, so I’d suggest changing your mindset from “how do I get a job without a technical interview” to “what skills do I need to improve to pass more technical interviews.” I understand you have ADHD but that is an issue faced by many people and there are a lot of pharmaceutical options to address it available today. Additionally, saying that contracting is not an option because you wouldn’t have full control of the result is a massive red flag to me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31893663) and makes it seem like the ADHD is not the main issue at all.
websitescenes
A red flag?! Really? Someone being totally invested in your product is a ”red flag”? I think we’re looking for very different types of opportunities.
websitescenes
And basically telling someone with particular needs to “get over it” is not helpful nor productive. Your comment is a red flag.
danielvf
Your two replies above come across as increasing angry. When you say that you bomb technical interviews, are you having problems with them because you cannot complete the technical tasks in that situation, or because you find the interviewer unreasonable and / or end up arguing with them?

It sounds like from your other comments here that you expect companies to change to accommodate you. While you may thrive in different environments, it's probably more productive for you to find companies that already work this way, than to demand existing companies change, even before interviewing you.

websitescenes
I am literally angry with this attitude, yes; accurate observation. I do believe that companies need to change to accommodate those with disabilities. Is that so far fetched? Ableism is a systemic issue that should be addressed.
b20000
you don’t need tech interviews to get a job or take contracting gigs.
Tarucho
Most likely by having an online portfolio and a well liked contact in the target company.
Blackstrat
As a retired hiring manager, I’d ask what type of accommodation are you looking for in the technical interview? How would you have convinced me to take a chance on you? And what type of position? What is your comfort level interacting with users and customers? Are you more comfortable heads down, working in the background? Some of these may be addressed in the initial screening. I’ve had ADHD/ASD employees previously and generally it can be managed. For example, one individual was extremely uncomfortable in face to face conversations (always looking down, muttering), but a terrific orator on the phone. So I used the phone and kept that person out of customer/user meetings. Over time, they became more comfortable and brief conversations were possible. Frankly though, at no time, did this individual fall back on their difficulties as an excuse or a limitation. Accommodation emerged naturally. Respectfully, I would suggest that you tone down your anger and think of yourself less as one with “disabilities”. Rather, recognize that companies are not anxious to hire anyone that in the interview suggests they will be difficult to manage or work with. The competition is simply too great. There is always someone else. Further, in my experience as well as the literature, the incidence of ADHD/ASD in the software development space is rather common. Plenty of companies facilitate individuals with ADHD/ASD traits. I urge you to think of yourself differently and figure out how bridge the gap - accommodation is a two as street.
websitescenes
"I’d ask what type of accommodation are you looking for in the technical interview?"

100% this. I've administered close to 30 technical interviews and this was generally my approach as well. This is what surprised me when interviewing at other places. I didn't seem to get the same accommodations I was used to giving.