I think AirTags are kind of dumb. They’re expensive enough that the only thing I’d use them for are key fobs, but, in Canada, we have War Amps who do a low tech version that makes more sense IMO.
They give you a “dumb” tag that has a unique number on it. Anyone can drop a found set of keys in any mailbox and they get sent to War Amps who sends them back to the owner. You don’t get real time tracking, but there’s no e-waste or batteries to worry about.
War Amps solve a very different, much simpler problem. They don't help me find the keys dropped between sofa cushions or left in my car. They require somebody else to do work on my behalf to get me my keys, like go to the post office. I can't see the realtime location of a thing with a War Amps tag. They're not useful if somebody intended to steal the item with a War Amps tag.
> What if you have an Android phone?
From the article:
> "Non iPhone users, Apple created an app for androids for this very reason called Tracker Detect"
Apple's Tracker Detect app for Android was designed to be inferior to the AirTag detection in Find My for iOS because Tracker Detect does not scan for AirTags automatically. Instead, Android users must manually open the Tracker Detect app and tap "Scan" every time.
Tracker Detect's lack of automatic scanning is not due to anything about the Android platform, since AirGuard exists as a free and open source Android app that scans for AirTags, Tiles, and other potential Bluetooth tracking devices in the background without needing user interaction.
In addition to automatic scanning, AirGuard has maps showing where and when each tracking device was detected. AirGuard also allows Android users to (manually) make AirTags emit a sound through the app as soon as they are detected, while Tracker Detect forces the user to wait 10 minutes after AirTag detection.
Cynical question: does TrackerDetect also participate in AirTag tracking and location reporting? By installing their app in an effort to protect myself from bad actors on their system, am I extending their system into a previously inaccessible platform?
Or is that being saved for the v2 release when they respond to the demand that it be an always-on service and not require manual scans?
Lets you know when you're being tracked by airtag or tile or earpods or whatever. Not sure just how extensive the list of detectable devices is but it was my first warning that my brother had bought a tile and airpods.
Does TrackerDetect for Android operate proactively or do you have to\can you manually scan? I've tried AirGuard available on F-Droid.
I'm a bit surprised at how this situation hasn't been made into the demonstration example of how difficult it is for individuals to escape or minimize their exposure to the surveillance capitalism society. I suppose if the proximal that these things pose to individuals wasn't so gruesome, there might be more being said about it. But I'm imagining a reverse situation, where someone is taking proactive steps to avoid exposure to Google tracking, so they get an iPhone, use apple email and web services, all the other little things for minimizing web tracking, and then Google comes along and says hey, we've leveraged our control of a massive distributed network of personal Android devices to unilaterally run a tracking service in the background of every device. Then when it's exposed as being obviously dangerous, Google releases an app for iOS users to aid in mitigating the risks the system presents to all individuals. And our Google-avoiding Apple user now is confronted with the alternative of either willfully allowing Google into their digital life or not addressing the adversarial risks of the system Google created. I can't help but think if Google had done this rather than Apple (which seems rather an academic distinction to me), there's be a lot more of an uproar.
** "But Apple protects it's users' privacy and Google's business model is to monetize it" - maybe Apple is better in this regard, or maybe they're just a black box with a plausible alternative revenue model that doesn't need to monetize the data it collects in the same obvious way - yet.
And I am loath to trust a company that in the face of backlash after the risks of a novel tracking system that they, as one of likely only two companies with the capacity to do so, created first, releases a statement suggesting we join in congratulating them for being the first to take steps to mitigate the risks (of the lone system that produces those risks that they and they alone have deployed). It's as of they are either completely out of it or they cynically know they can leverage an if we word it they will come Field of Dreams for fan-boys.
"But I won't be late for The Man because I lost my keys in the sofa now." The whole thing is depressingly pathetic. If only Orwell and friends had explained how f**ing convenient the surveillance state would be!
i have this exact issue. forgot my jacket in a bar one day.
Now i can see my jacket is inside a big apartment building for a year and have never moved. But i have no way to get it back because i dont know which appartement it’s part of and everybody ignore the lost message.
What about the UWB feature where your phone points into the direction of the AirTag? You'd have to walk down all the floors until your phone can pinpoint the location, but it's probably worth a try.
Hasn't Apple said that itags are not meant to track stolen items? That falls outside of the intended use case. So both options are similar in that sense.
They're not similar in that sense. Apple has stated that they're not intended as a theft deterrent (standard corporate CYA), but they're still useful for stolen items.
If somebody steals my backpack with an AirTag in it, I have at least a few hours before the thief alerted to the tracker. I'm also given a notification that my backpack is no longer with me immediately.
She got a notification within 2 hours and disabled the device. Sounds like the protections worked as intended, and thanks to Apple she was alerted to the fact that somebody was stalking her.
Let's consider the alternative of a world where AirTags didn't exist: The stalker probably would have followed her around for 2 hours, and she likely wouldn't have found out until a physical confrontation.
Perhaps the first nearly disposable device. Can a stalker rig a GPS device to your car to follow you, FBI-style? Sure, but setting that up is pretty involved and maintaining the service adds a cost for the wannabe-stalker. Using Apple's system is just the cost of the tags themselves. Mr. Stalker (or worse) need not be so discerning about his targets.
In the car of a celebrity like this, I wouldn't be surprised if Paps are trying to use these.
Some things Apple seems to have not done:
Allow for reporting as stalking. Why not, upon deactivation, ask where it was found? In my car/in my purse or on my person. Apple knows the account the tag is associated with, why not provide that info to the person being tracked? To differentiate between stalking and accidental loss or coincidental tracking, enable an approved list. If I'm tracking my car, have all the known drivers manually scan for and approve the tag or approve it when they are alerted to being tracked. Then if an approved device is present, don't register reports from non-approved devices.
And if potential stalking is reported, disable AirTag use for the account at a minimum until it gets cleared up or doesn't. Maybe this is a repeat offender that law enforcement needs to address. Apple would have the data.
Apple is really doing the bare minimum to keep a lid on complaints IMO. The corporate balance between doing nothing and being called out for it and potentially being held liable when someone uses the system to assault someone else and actually making it safe, thus highlighting the myriad ways in which it's so very unsafe and ending up with too many people wondering if it's risks outway it's benefits.
>Let's consider the alternative of a world where AirTags didn't exist: The stalker probably would have followed her around for 2 hours, and she likely wouldn't have found out until a physical confrontation.
With gymnastics skills like that it should have been you getting a from the president this week. Really though, AirTags are another till for stalkers and Apple alerting her after 2 hours didn't prevent someone from physically following and eventually confronting her. And the digital stalker knows the potential limits of a system, so they know if their target is an iOS user, their worst case scenario is they have 2 hours for whatever situation they are looking for to arise, whether that's secluded isolation or what-have-you. And if the target is not an iOS user, you know, some people clearly don't value their own lives, so why should anyone else.
In THIS case the article mentions she reports feeling lucky she discovered it before leaving the park. But that's pure coincidence, and I otherwise fully agree with your sentiment.
I hope the many stories of the success of this tech aren’t lost, for example the many people who aren’t losing their bags this summer during Europes airport chaos (https://thepointsguy.com/news/bag-tracking-apple-airtag/). AirTags helped me find my own handbag once, where I left one of my beloved cameras.
Apple has been responsive to the concerns about AirTags. They can probably pull some more safety tricks out of their hat, maybe beeping once every 10 minutes if an owners device isn’t nearby? Who knows how much worse tiles were at this regardless of how lousy their network was (it wasn’t nonexistent)
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 101 ms ] threadI think AirTags are kind of dumb. They’re expensive enough that the only thing I’d use them for are key fobs, but, in Canada, we have War Amps who do a low tech version that makes more sense IMO.
They give you a “dumb” tag that has a unique number on it. Anyone can drop a found set of keys in any mailbox and they get sent to War Amps who sends them back to the owner. You don’t get real time tracking, but there’s no e-waste or batteries to worry about.
> What if you have an Android phone?
From the article:
> "Non iPhone users, Apple created an app for androids for this very reason called Tracker Detect"
Tracker Detect's lack of automatic scanning is not due to anything about the Android platform, since AirGuard exists as a free and open source Android app that scans for AirTags, Tiles, and other potential Bluetooth tracking devices in the background without needing user interaction.
AirGuard: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/AirGuard
In addition to automatic scanning, AirGuard has maps showing where and when each tracking device was detected. AirGuard also allows Android users to (manually) make AirTags emit a sound through the app as soon as they are detected, while Tracker Detect forces the user to wait 10 minutes after AirTag detection.
Or is that being saved for the v2 release when they respond to the demand that it be an always-on service and not require manual scans?
Available in the play store too I think.
Lets you know when you're being tracked by airtag or tile or earpods or whatever. Not sure just how extensive the list of detectable devices is but it was my first warning that my brother had bought a tile and airpods.
I'm a bit surprised at how this situation hasn't been made into the demonstration example of how difficult it is for individuals to escape or minimize their exposure to the surveillance capitalism society. I suppose if the proximal that these things pose to individuals wasn't so gruesome, there might be more being said about it. But I'm imagining a reverse situation, where someone is taking proactive steps to avoid exposure to Google tracking, so they get an iPhone, use apple email and web services, all the other little things for minimizing web tracking, and then Google comes along and says hey, we've leveraged our control of a massive distributed network of personal Android devices to unilaterally run a tracking service in the background of every device. Then when it's exposed as being obviously dangerous, Google releases an app for iOS users to aid in mitigating the risks the system presents to all individuals. And our Google-avoiding Apple user now is confronted with the alternative of either willfully allowing Google into their digital life or not addressing the adversarial risks of the system Google created. I can't help but think if Google had done this rather than Apple (which seems rather an academic distinction to me), there's be a lot more of an uproar.
** "But Apple protects it's users' privacy and Google's business model is to monetize it" - maybe Apple is better in this regard, or maybe they're just a black box with a plausible alternative revenue model that doesn't need to monetize the data it collects in the same obvious way - yet.
And I am loath to trust a company that in the face of backlash after the risks of a novel tracking system that they, as one of likely only two companies with the capacity to do so, created first, releases a statement suggesting we join in congratulating them for being the first to take steps to mitigate the risks (of the lone system that produces those risks that they and they alone have deployed). It's as of they are either completely out of it or they cynically know they can leverage an if we word it they will come Field of Dreams for fan-boys.
"But I won't be late for The Man because I lost my keys in the sofa now." The whole thing is depressingly pathetic. If only Orwell and friends had explained how f**ing convenient the surveillance state would be!
If somebody steals my backpack with an AirTag in it, I have at least a few hours before the thief alerted to the tracker. I'm also given a notification that my backpack is no longer with me immediately.
Let's consider the alternative of a world where AirTags didn't exist: The stalker probably would have followed her around for 2 hours, and she likely wouldn't have found out until a physical confrontation.
not to excuse apple, but this isn't a new or unique problem.
In the car of a celebrity like this, I wouldn't be surprised if Paps are trying to use these.
Some things Apple seems to have not done: Allow for reporting as stalking. Why not, upon deactivation, ask where it was found? In my car/in my purse or on my person. Apple knows the account the tag is associated with, why not provide that info to the person being tracked? To differentiate between stalking and accidental loss or coincidental tracking, enable an approved list. If I'm tracking my car, have all the known drivers manually scan for and approve the tag or approve it when they are alerted to being tracked. Then if an approved device is present, don't register reports from non-approved devices. And if potential stalking is reported, disable AirTag use for the account at a minimum until it gets cleared up or doesn't. Maybe this is a repeat offender that law enforcement needs to address. Apple would have the data.
Apple is really doing the bare minimum to keep a lid on complaints IMO. The corporate balance between doing nothing and being called out for it and potentially being held liable when someone uses the system to assault someone else and actually making it safe, thus highlighting the myriad ways in which it's so very unsafe and ending up with too many people wondering if it's risks outway it's benefits.
With gymnastics skills like that it should have been you getting a from the president this week. Really though, AirTags are another till for stalkers and Apple alerting her after 2 hours didn't prevent someone from physically following and eventually confronting her. And the digital stalker knows the potential limits of a system, so they know if their target is an iOS user, their worst case scenario is they have 2 hours for whatever situation they are looking for to arise, whether that's secluded isolation or what-have-you. And if the target is not an iOS user, you know, some people clearly don't value their own lives, so why should anyone else.
Apple has been responsive to the concerns about AirTags. They can probably pull some more safety tricks out of their hat, maybe beeping once every 10 minutes if an owners device isn’t nearby? Who knows how much worse tiles were at this regardless of how lousy their network was (it wasn’t nonexistent)