Like, it's really bad, and lags after some scrolling. Uses 50GB*of RAM after an hour of scrolling.
EDIT: Was joking about 50GB. But it consumes a lot of my RAM.
I have not worked at Facebook but have several acquaintances who have in the past. A frequent complain I've heard is they actually do dogfood their own product. Much of the communication is done via Facebook between employees and is difficult to stay up to date on things.
Scrolling for an hour - sounds like you're trying to scrape the site to collect comments with usernames?
In that case, the page gets pretty large because there is actually a lot of content in the DOM. It's just not designed for your use case.
And, just to make that clear, it's a violation of the terms of services and of some national laws (including the GDPR) to collect user data, you may want to tread carefully.
I like the idea of the Meatverse. It'll exclude vegans, of course, except for those vegans who still eat bacon (or at least like to fantasize about it).
What? A brand new account with two karma comes in and asks if a much older account with a ton of karma is a bot? Please come back when you have something useful to contribute to the discussion.
What? How does the age of a account has anything to do with it? His comments look like gptj outputs the funny thing is you playing moral advocate but what else to expect from someone with the username hallway monitor.
I think Meatverse would be more like meatspace that people referenced since 1980s. Like, actually going out and meeting up with friends in real life, rather than building up online personas. Imagine if Facebook focused on helping people do that!
Nah, they’d rather focus on the metaverse, than meatspace hehe
- Push notifications. Last time I installed the app (to test this) the default notification settings are unreal - literally dozens of push notifications per day. If you change your notification settings in the app to essentially turn off everything Facebook will still send you a few per day as in "Hey, you don't seem to be addicted to the app and use it every hour. Here's a reminder for you to jump back in and get those dopamine hits you're missing." This of course translates to more add views (and potential clicks), more DAUs, etc.
- Greater access to XYZ on mobile. Apple famously cracked down on this a bit but it's still more data.
- Doom scrolling. It's easier for people (and I think they're more conditioned) to swipe endlessly on a mobile device vs scrolling on desktop. Again more add views/clicks, etc.
The new Reddit web interface makes the Facebook web interface look fast. It's amazing just how slow it is – many buttons take multiple seconds to respond, scrolling is nearly unusable, all on high-end modern computers in modern browsers.
The day old.reddit.com disappears is the day I stop browsing Reddit on desktop, just like the day their API access gets too restrictive for third-party clients to make sense (which I wouldn't be surprised to happen at some point, given how they're treating it with the newest features) is the day I'll stop browsing on mobile. Their main site and app are both utter garbage.
> The day old.reddit.com disappears is the day I stop browsing Reddit on desktop
I know threats like this are cliche, especially about UI refreshes of long-loved web sites, but this one rings true for me. Like Facebook, I'll miss some of the content, but at a certain point the experience isn't worth it.
Serious question, why do y'all keep browsing it now if you know you'll be getting rid of it as soon as the old ui stops working?
This feels like the weirdest instance of stockholm syndrome, I've seen this so much. And don't get me wrong, I totally understand where you're coming from, Reddit is user-hostile as hell. But... why keep using it then? Why keep giving pageviews and ad money to a trashy website that hates you?
I used to post a ton on Reddit. My browsing of it has been reduced to maybe all of a couple times a week on my local city's subreddit only. I didn't wait for the UI to go even more to shit to essentially stop using it.
--
Edit: I guess my point's been missed. Maybe to rephrase: How do you get any sort of enjoyment out of actively using a website that hates you? How does this not make you want to use it less and less regardless of how good the content is?
Cause I still find some enjoyment in smaller subreddits. I used to hang out on phpbb forums back in my early teens, now that crowd is mostly on niche subreddits. I just know that I like it, but not enough that it would keep me in if I had to endure the new UI. Not sure what's so Stockholm-ish about that.
Edit: I don't understand how my comment did not answer your rephrased question, so I probably wasn't that clear. old.reddit.com is still there, the API still works just fine, so does my favorite third-party client - the same one I've been using for years. The new features I'm missing out on by using the site in this way, I don't care about. My usage is still perfectly enjoyable and the site doesn't do anything to actively make me feel that "hate" you're talking about.
I don't think you were unclear, I guess you just don't feel what I feel. It doesn't matter if I'm using old.reddit or the new UI, Reddit doesn't want me there. The new UI is basically a giant fuck you to anyone not using the phone app, the phone app is a fuck you to anyone who wants some amount of privacy or agency over their free time, the old UI is unmaintained and going the way of the dodo, and third party apps are basically guaranteed to be gone as soon as Reddit can justify it.
It's like .. okay, imagine you have this market you used to shop at. You really enjoyed going there for years, but it's been bought by Walmart. For reasons, Walmart isn't shutting down the market, but they're not restocking it, making sure it smells bad and the products are past due-date, and they're almost threatening you to use their big store which you absolutely don't want to use "or else".
And instead of looking for your shopping elsewhere, you decide to keep shopping at that market until Walmart shuts down what you used to like, because, idk, I guess there's still a couple products there you like?
It's a stretched comparison, sure, but this is how it feels like to me. Bar some very specific communities (which are moving over time), content on there is not exclusive to Reddit. And even the niche communities you might enjoy there, there's plenty more on the internet (or even offline) you can be a part of and find true enjoyment in.
Tildes for example is the one I'm a part of (https://tildes.net/). I quite like being part of a community where the website doesn't do everything in its power to piss me off and force me to make it more money. If anyone wants an invite feel free to email me (cf profile).
> It's like .. okay, imagine you have this market you used to shop at. You really enjoyed going there for years, but it's been bought by Walmart. For reasons, Walmart isn't shutting down the market, but they're not restocking it, making sure it smells bad and the products are past due-date, and they're almost threatening you to use their big store which you absolutely don't want to use "or else".
The comparison isn't just stretched IMHO, but downright faulty. With the old site and the API being both still present and perfectly functional, it's more like if said Walmart kept the old store up right next to the new one, still keeping it stocked - the new store has new sections, but I'm perfectly free to shop in the old one. Nothing makes me feel like I'm not wanted there.
Maybe that's enough for you to feel unwanted, it doesn't for me - yet. When they do cut old/API, it'll start feeling like they're actively pushing me out, therefore my previous stance.
They don't hate you, they want to make money off you. It's not a fuck you, it's a series of A/B test results.
You, and for the record I, are not the target market for this money making angle anymore. They don't hate us though, they nothing us.
We can still bypass all of the A/B testing with old/api methods so it still works. Why use Reddit? Because it's user generated content not Reddit generated content. It's not much deeper than that.
Tildes is like that now, they'll probably be doing the same or shut down given a long enough timeline. Imgur for an easy example here. Built because all the image hosting sites of the era sucked. Now it's worse than they were.
That feels not stretched but incorrect (and coming as an outsider to the whole Reddit thing):
In your example, PRODUCT is bad or lacking (past expiry, not restocking, etc). With Reddit, PRODUCT is still good, plentiful, and arguably unique. It is the shopping experience that is lacking.
As well, in your example, only the poor-experience method to obtain the product exists. I believe overall message is that good old way STILL exists to obtain good product; and people are indicating they aren't sure even the good product will entice them once new shopping experience is the only way... but it isn't currently.
What it comes down to is whether one will make a principled stand (I want your product, but I do not like your attitude, so I'll leave) or pragmatic approach (I am still getting what I need out of this, I reserve the right to change my mind).
> why do y'all keep browsing it now if you know you'll be getting rid of it as soon as the old ui stops working?
1) I still gain value from it now. Why do you buy an expensive car if you know eventually it will cost more to fix than it is worth and destined for the scrapheap?
2) The more people credibly saying that they will leave reddit when old.reddit disappears, the less likely it is to. Appearing in engagement numbers on old.reddit is clearly telling reddit there's a possibility I'm in that group.
3) If they do remove old.reddit, and then enough of us drop reddit, they may reverse course.
The answer to your edited question is simple: with old.reddit.com or a third-party app on mobile reddit is actually pretty good, especially if you go to the less mainstream subreddits.
Thanks for this, I assumed it was just my computer. Literally 3-4 full seconds to close a thread. Also Ctrl-F search takes forever to open the box and put the cursor in it. They must really want people to use the app or something.
There's a lesson in here about how A/B testing around KPIs that don't account for user experience will eventually drift your app into an unusable mess. You'll hit your metrics every month but every month the site will get worse.
The mobile website is also a joke. I don't care it hasn't adopted their latest design language, but they killed the messenger function - and even didn't bother to put a proper message up. Instead you just get a "page not found".
I am not sure about 1, at least it has been a long time since I got a dopamine hit from FB. Mostly it seems to be trying to guilt me into liking somebody else post, but most likely somebody just needs to keep some numbers up for internal use.
As for access on mobile, they are far more contained to within app, at least on iOS. On the web they can have their cookie everywhere.
Question is: Do they put no effort in the desktop experience because nobody uses it, or does nobody use it because they put no effort in the desktop experience?
Right, but my point is that this is self-reinforcing. If you put no effort in your desktop site, then nobody will use it. It also creates a vacant niche for competition to get a foothold in.
I'm mainly a desktop user because my hands are too big to use smartphones comfortably. I can scroll decently well but I can't operate the keyboard without running my finger in a pencil sharpener first. There are lots of sites I simply don't use because they don't work well on desktop. It's kind of annoying being told I don't exist.
This is not a Facebook specific issue. Take Gmail for instance. This is easily reproducible - open the tab in Safari on the latest macOS. Keep it open for a day. Check memory usage in Activity Monitor. It’s always more than 1GB, I’ve found. Brings my poor 8GB M1 laptop to a crawl.
Why wouldn’t Google fix this obvious issue? Top comment on this thread right now assumes malice of Facebook. I’d prefer an explanation that explains why Gmail is a memory hog too. Maybe it’s just hard to develop complex web apps.
It's almost like Facebook (and React in general) was designed at the behest of the memory module manufacturers :D
But no in all seriousness it's crazy that 98.5% of people browse fb via mobile. I have never and will never consume social media via mobile. I literally use my phone for three things -- screening my email inbox, accepting and creating calendar events, and SMS/Slack/Discord comms. Other than that it's just not going to happen for me, ever, unless I have no other choice.
Meta wants Facebook to die a slow death. Reading between the lines for Zuckerberg's public communications over the last two years, Meta is treating Facebook as a legacy product in maintenance mode. FB is still a cash cow but their social media efforts are focused on Instagram and the long term prospects of the company are focused on VR/AR.
Honestly this would be good for everyone if the primary platform for misinformation and long form arguments about politics with family members went away. All I really care about is seeing people's kids and pets and memes. Everything else is at best just a waste of time and at worst actively destroying democracy.
according to you, who is wrong. According to me, FB allows me to connect with friends. I have litteraly travelled the world because of a friend i met on facebook, and it was the greatest feeling ever. FB is awesome. If it's toxic for you, YOU ARE TOXIC.
We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. You can't attack others like this here.
Also, you've mostly been posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments and that's not allowed either.
If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
Prior to social media it was demonstrably harder for people with "extreme" (for all values of extreme) views to spread their message and find like-minded people. Not impossible, but definitely not nearly as easy as it is now. Social media platforms aren't the cause of misinformation, they're the cause of the rapid dissemination of it.
I don't think shutting them down will stop it but I think a lot of todays hyper-partisan inflammation of the citizenry is owed to these platforms and their encouragement of any and all "engagement" on their platforms in service of ad dollars. These companies know how harmful these products are but since they're profitable they ignore the findings. I would argue that Meta/Facebook is the Philip Morris of our generation.
They're just destroying their popular products and pushing something that is almost universally hated. Read the comments of one of their ads, look at reviews, a small percentage likes it and everyone else wants it to not exist.
It's like some giant parody art project of dysfunctionality, you just have to step back and admire how phenomenally effectively they're demolishing everything. It's Yahooesque
At least Google has enough sense to can things that aren't working. It'd be like if they were still pushing plus and glass
> Facebook as a legacy product in maintenance mode.
Does FB even need to change? What's wrong with a product becoming stable and maintained and just growing in users but not features, etc?
Why can't we just have products that are "done". When's the last time HN didn't get something in "maintenance mode"? With SaaS, it's not even like you need to produce new versions to get more money.
This makes a lot of sense. Facebook as a brand is synonymous with lots of negative connotations, so treating it as a legacy site that still generates a lot of revenue while focusing on new tech (AR/VR) and other services (Instagram/whatsapp) makes sense.
Resource use aside (welcome to modern "web apps", non-basic-HTML Gmail, Jira, and Asana all do the same shit on my machine[s], which sucks because those are all things I'd like to be able to leave open without crippling my computer) I tried to become a Facebook user a little over a decade ago and found it too confusing, so I bounced and never went back. I'm told the UI made way more sense back when it was university-only up to shortly after they opened up registration.
I had similar issues with Twitter. I kinda understand it now after lots of use. Kinda. But it still confuses me, and that's part of why I never tweet and rarely even log in. Just navigating it read-only is difficult, and that's before they throw multiple kinds of LOG IN TO KEEP READING walls at you.
I mean, my bigger concern with facebook website is that I have a 32" monitor, and it focuses content on like the middle 5 inches.
No gridding, no sizing, no custom or alternative layouts, no nothing --> I have no control over layout, either as I browse/use it, or the layout of my page to others. I cannot easily provide photos or music or articles or links or content that I want to friends & family.
I used to be a somewhat prolific poster of content, but over last few years my engagement has dropped to basically nil - I have been dis-incentivized from creating or adding content, and have complete disinterest in consuming content on such an uncontrollable platform.
And yes, I do miss Google Plus, but that's a whole other incendiary discussion :D
Not as featureful, but https://mbasic.facebook.com is an HTML-only version that works okay-ish for scrolling. (Though, no messaging is the biggest omission of mbasic if that is why you want Facebook for.)
> Your Page's Inbox is not currently available in the Facebook app or mobile web browsers. You can access your messages through a desktop browser, or by downloading Meta Business Suite or Messenger from the app store.
I think most top tech IT shops' dev teams do all their development locally (on huge iron) and don't really take into account latencies over the public internet and this has all kinds of implications for usability, to say nothing of the fact that all the big tech website are almost completely aloof to user preferences and are more interested in tracking usage metrics to feed machine learning telemetry gathering.
Eh. I mean when you boil it down, they need to pack a ton of functionality into a statically served web pages. In order to do this (without having to wait 10 minutes for facebook.com to load), they have to make a ton of [ad] network requests, cache data on your browser, etc.
To be honest, I'd put more of the blame on the browser. They should probably be handling all that activity better. Like chromium browsers will freeze background tabs after a certain amount of time/usage.
Facebook doesnt have to be good. Their target demographic is old folks who use yahoo and hotmail addresses. They get angry when they cant find the buttons in the spots they are used to.
I wouldn’t know for I’ve since let my 15y account get hijacked by Facebook due to IP-based phone numbers.
That said, I didn’t use it much because I wasn’t able to view my friendss’ posting on their wall due to crazy preemptive algorithms in favored of paid accounts.
No loss for me there.
I am however thankful for the option to download everything from my account that was provide by Facebook before this clusterfuck occurred.
101 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 160 ms ] threadIn that case, the page gets pretty large because there is actually a lot of content in the DOM. It's just not designed for your use case.
And, just to make that clear, it's a violation of the terms of services and of some national laws (including the GDPR) to collect user data, you may want to tread carefully.
Sign me up.
Nah, they’d rather focus on the metaverse, than meatspace hehe
Could even make a fake "meta" looking logo for it and get sued!
And then some competitor would come along, slaughter Meatverse, and eat Zuckerberg's lunch.
My YC application is pending.
Is the newsfeed leaking mem, or is it just 50GBs over time?
0.0.0.0 www.facebook.com
Works for me as i have zero lag, zero ram used and any scrolling i would have done i do elsewhere.
- Push notifications. Last time I installed the app (to test this) the default notification settings are unreal - literally dozens of push notifications per day. If you change your notification settings in the app to essentially turn off everything Facebook will still send you a few per day as in "Hey, you don't seem to be addicted to the app and use it every hour. Here's a reminder for you to jump back in and get those dopamine hits you're missing." This of course translates to more add views (and potential clicks), more DAUs, etc.
- Greater access to XYZ on mobile. Apple famously cracked down on this a bit but it's still more data.
- Doom scrolling. It's easier for people (and I think they're more conditioned) to swipe endlessly on a mobile device vs scrolling on desktop. Again more add views/clicks, etc.
It's the way FB can track you in the real world, via GPS, have direct access to various sensors, locate people you are in the same room as, etc.
I honestly think that might be worth more than the "no ad blocking", given that FB can use that data to deliver ads on many other people's apps.
The new Reddit web interface makes the Facebook web interface look fast. It's amazing just how slow it is – many buttons take multiple seconds to respond, scrolling is nearly unusable, all on high-end modern computers in modern browsers.
I know threats like this are cliche, especially about UI refreshes of long-loved web sites, but this one rings true for me. Like Facebook, I'll miss some of the content, but at a certain point the experience isn't worth it.
Luckily the absence of the newest features is generally a positive.
This feels like the weirdest instance of stockholm syndrome, I've seen this so much. And don't get me wrong, I totally understand where you're coming from, Reddit is user-hostile as hell. But... why keep using it then? Why keep giving pageviews and ad money to a trashy website that hates you?
I used to post a ton on Reddit. My browsing of it has been reduced to maybe all of a couple times a week on my local city's subreddit only. I didn't wait for the UI to go even more to shit to essentially stop using it.
--
Edit: I guess my point's been missed. Maybe to rephrase: How do you get any sort of enjoyment out of actively using a website that hates you? How does this not make you want to use it less and less regardless of how good the content is?
Edit: I don't understand how my comment did not answer your rephrased question, so I probably wasn't that clear. old.reddit.com is still there, the API still works just fine, so does my favorite third-party client - the same one I've been using for years. The new features I'm missing out on by using the site in this way, I don't care about. My usage is still perfectly enjoyable and the site doesn't do anything to actively make me feel that "hate" you're talking about.
It's like .. okay, imagine you have this market you used to shop at. You really enjoyed going there for years, but it's been bought by Walmart. For reasons, Walmart isn't shutting down the market, but they're not restocking it, making sure it smells bad and the products are past due-date, and they're almost threatening you to use their big store which you absolutely don't want to use "or else".
And instead of looking for your shopping elsewhere, you decide to keep shopping at that market until Walmart shuts down what you used to like, because, idk, I guess there's still a couple products there you like?
It's a stretched comparison, sure, but this is how it feels like to me. Bar some very specific communities (which are moving over time), content on there is not exclusive to Reddit. And even the niche communities you might enjoy there, there's plenty more on the internet (or even offline) you can be a part of and find true enjoyment in.
Tildes for example is the one I'm a part of (https://tildes.net/). I quite like being part of a community where the website doesn't do everything in its power to piss me off and force me to make it more money. If anyone wants an invite feel free to email me (cf profile).
The comparison isn't just stretched IMHO, but downright faulty. With the old site and the API being both still present and perfectly functional, it's more like if said Walmart kept the old store up right next to the new one, still keeping it stocked - the new store has new sections, but I'm perfectly free to shop in the old one. Nothing makes me feel like I'm not wanted there.
Maybe that's enough for you to feel unwanted, it doesn't for me - yet. When they do cut old/API, it'll start feeling like they're actively pushing me out, therefore my previous stance.
You, and for the record I, are not the target market for this money making angle anymore. They don't hate us though, they nothing us.
We can still bypass all of the A/B testing with old/api methods so it still works. Why use Reddit? Because it's user generated content not Reddit generated content. It's not much deeper than that.
Tildes is like that now, they'll probably be doing the same or shut down given a long enough timeline. Imgur for an easy example here. Built because all the image hosting sites of the era sucked. Now it's worse than they were.
In your example, PRODUCT is bad or lacking (past expiry, not restocking, etc). With Reddit, PRODUCT is still good, plentiful, and arguably unique. It is the shopping experience that is lacking.
As well, in your example, only the poor-experience method to obtain the product exists. I believe overall message is that good old way STILL exists to obtain good product; and people are indicating they aren't sure even the good product will entice them once new shopping experience is the only way... but it isn't currently.
What it comes down to is whether one will make a principled stand (I want your product, but I do not like your attitude, so I'll leave) or pragmatic approach (I am still getting what I need out of this, I reserve the right to change my mind).
1) I still gain value from it now. Why do you buy an expensive car if you know eventually it will cost more to fix than it is worth and destined for the scrapheap?
2) The more people credibly saying that they will leave reddit when old.reddit disappears, the less likely it is to. Appearing in engagement numbers on old.reddit is clearly telling reddit there's a possibility I'm in that group.
3) If they do remove old.reddit, and then enough of us drop reddit, they may reverse course.
I have stopped using it in other contexts, as a casual user. Too painful.
Jokes on you Reddit. I deliberately stick with the mobile website so that the sheer friction of it limits my Reddit time. Works pretty well.
As for access on mobile, they are far more contained to within app, at least on iOS. On the web they can have their cookie everywhere.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/277125/share-of-website-...
[2] https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/
I'm mainly a desktop user because my hands are too big to use smartphones comfortably. I can scroll decently well but I can't operate the keyboard without running my finger in a pencil sharpener first. There are lots of sites I simply don't use because they don't work well on desktop. It's kind of annoying being told I don't exist.
Why wouldn’t Google fix this obvious issue? Top comment on this thread right now assumes malice of Facebook. I’d prefer an explanation that explains why Gmail is a memory hog too. Maybe it’s just hard to develop complex web apps.
But no in all seriousness it's crazy that 98.5% of people browse fb via mobile. I have never and will never consume social media via mobile. I literally use my phone for three things -- screening my email inbox, accepting and creating calendar events, and SMS/Slack/Discord comms. Other than that it's just not going to happen for me, ever, unless I have no other choice.
Also, you've mostly been posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments and that's not allowed either.
If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
You think that just shutting down the communication medium really makes all of that go away"?
I don't think shutting them down will stop it but I think a lot of todays hyper-partisan inflammation of the citizenry is owed to these platforms and their encouragement of any and all "engagement" on their platforms in service of ad dollars. These companies know how harmful these products are but since they're profitable they ignore the findings. I would argue that Meta/Facebook is the Philip Morris of our generation.
It's like some giant parody art project of dysfunctionality, you just have to step back and admire how phenomenally effectively they're demolishing everything. It's Yahooesque
At least Google has enough sense to can things that aren't working. It'd be like if they were still pushing plus and glass
Does FB even need to change? What's wrong with a product becoming stable and maintained and just growing in users but not features, etc?
Why can't we just have products that are "done". When's the last time HN didn't get something in "maintenance mode"? With SaaS, it's not even like you need to produce new versions to get more money.
When (90%/99%) of facebook valuation is based on growth potential? About (90%/99%). Money basically.
I had similar issues with Twitter. I kinda understand it now after lots of use. Kinda. But it still confuses me, and that's part of why I never tweet and rarely even log in. Just navigating it read-only is difficult, and that's before they throw multiple kinds of LOG IN TO KEEP READING walls at you.
No gridding, no sizing, no custom or alternative layouts, no nothing --> I have no control over layout, either as I browse/use it, or the layout of my page to others. I cannot easily provide photos or music or articles or links or content that I want to friends & family.
I used to be a somewhat prolific poster of content, but over last few years my engagement has dropped to basically nil - I have been dis-incentivized from creating or adding content, and have complete disinterest in consuming content on such an uncontrollable platform.
And yes, I do miss Google Plus, but that's a whole other incendiary discussion :D
https://mbasic.facebook.com/messages/?ref_component=mbasic_h...
Screenshot https://img.imgy.org/-w3G.png
Twitter on the other hand is awful with long load times and heavy resource usage.
Sometimes I'm forced to use an alternative frontend like Nitter to browse tweets.
Javascript was probably invented by Satan.
To be honest, I'd put more of the blame on the browser. They should probably be handling all that activity better. Like chromium browsers will freeze background tabs after a certain amount of time/usage.
These cause non-trivial issues on corporate firewalls a lot of the time.
But yes, the desktop site is garbage. They don't care.
That said, I didn’t use it much because I wasn’t able to view my friendss’ posting on their wall due to crazy preemptive algorithms in favored of paid accounts.
No loss for me there.
I am however thankful for the option to download everything from my account that was provide by Facebook before this clusterfuck occurred.