Ask HN: Is it possible to get an 18-year-old to spend less time on the computer?
A relative of mine asked for help with their 18-year-old child and computer time. The teen spends 9+ hours a day playing games and watching anime. When I was a kid, I got around a lot of restrictions, so I'm concerned a software-based approach won't work. The parent has tried locking the computer in a different room, which works, but it lacks nuance. It's okay to play video games as long as it is a healthy amount.
Parents of HN, what measures or completely different approaches have worked to establish healthy computer time limits for your kids?
170 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 218 ms ] threadMost "healthy" individuals indulge in addiction: television, food, news.
What do the parents hope for the kid's future? What makes a good life? Why is it bad that someone spends 9+ hours a day on the computer when that's the standard for all software engineers?
What do they hope to accomplish by restricting internet time? What does the kid want for the future?
do unto others as others have done to you?
If my kid is 18 and living at home, I have some say in the life. If they want 0 say, they can find their own way. Obviously, I don't give a rat's ass that my 18 year old games becasue as long as they have a healthy lifestyle, I'm glad they're enjoying themselves but if they're starting to become a hermit and losing friends, not working, not taking care of their health, etc, then they're going to have some pressure from me.
You don't get to live off the teet and also not listen at all.
I understand your comment and I just want to say that my comment is assuming we're past that point that you're talking about. I didn't want to write an article. Some kids can be stubborn. Anecdote: My great grandma tried that with my great uncle (all carrot) and he lived in her basement playing videos games until he died of a heart attack. I thought he had the best life because he got to be lazy, but it didn't server him very well. The end. Being a pushover and being considerate is a very fine line that is easy to fuck up.
Certainly you have the right to expect some participation in the household, chores, standards of cleanliness, safety, noise etc, just as you would any other person living under your roof (boarder etc).
You no longer have the right to define their schedule, gender, religion or personal preference. In short they have the right to make their own mistakes, you can try to guide, but you can no longer enforce, beyond inviting them to leave your home. I would suggest that you may want to compromise and keep your ability to influence and guide, rather than giving them the boot and forcing them into the world.
If said 18 year old has the money to live on their own and play video games, all the more power to ‘em!
But seriously, the computer isn’t the issue. Kid needs to start pulling their own weight or they’re going to be in for a rude awakening.
If you want to go down the "no right" path...
Assuming the adult(child) is not contributing financially to living expenses, the child has no right to an internet connection, electricity, room & board, usage of any equipment that they do not own, etc. So while the parent has no right to tell their adult child what to do with their time, the adult child has no right to free resources.
Letting a child, adult or otherwise, play video games 8 hours a day, is not going to have a positive outcome for the child. I have great sympathy. We were very permissive parents and our kids were not in a good space, mid-teens. We now have much better relationships with our kids, and they with each other. Fortunately we could afford counseling, coaching and group coaching. Establishing boundaries and consequences was step one.
There's a discussion on r/menslib that touches on this at <https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...>.
This comment at <https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...> is particularly relevant:
> So, as you say, the question is: did society create the computer kid by ignoring them, or did the computer kid disregard society because computers were more interesting?
> Both, possibly. But there's no smoke without fire. If you force a kid into solo, insular hobbies and to find their own ways to connect to things without the opportunity for those things to be other people, you really can't complain decades later that he's socially inept.
I felt forced to find ways to entertain myself because I grew up without friends, was emotionally neglected, and never figured out how to make friends as a kid because my parents figured that I was somehow "smart enough" to not need help with social skills. It wasn't computers for me; it was books, heavy metal albums, and console gaming.
You're not going to fix this "addiction" without first confronting the root causes. Chances are this kid was emotionally neglected, and they're using the computer to cope.
It's one of the only ones so far, mentioning the fact of discussing with the 18 yo son, trying to find the cause(s) of his behavior.
Most of the other answers are as stupid a "blablabla when I was 18 I had a fulltime job", good for you Jake, it made you into the pretentious adult applying one solution to everyone else problems and even worse giving those advice randomly to people on in the internet.
First off if your kid is medicated especially with high dose ADHD medication it is likely way over prescribed, and to deal with the literal mental overclocking storm the best way is to have an environment and stimuli you have complete control over, IE a computer in a room.
Secondly as somebody else mentioned the child has likely been emotionally neglected, not only by their parents but by their peers. Its very hard to fit in these days and with social media it is overly apparent when you do not. Looking back the best thing that helped me claw my way out of the funk caused by this is most importantly that I wanted to, and secondly that my parents cared enough to try and involve me in social programs. One of the blessings of being young is that when you are forced into situations by your parents such as clubs or social circles, you have no need to justify being there. It sucks at first but it really helps. Also if theyre obese A health coach would be a great first step.
If the young adult is defiant and very hard headed, forcing them to get a job will likely not work, but if theyre just soft getting them a job where they work with others is a great way to foster social intelligence.
TLDR: If theyre from a rough and emotionally neglected background, be tender and encourage growth. If theyre from an easygoing and supportive background, be harsh and force them to grow.
Regardless of reasons, there appears to be a huge deficit of "growing up" in a large fraction of modern 18 year olds.
Looking back, I was pretty much not where I should have been at age 18 either.
I offer no conclusion and intend no oblique subtext, but is it not equally valid to suggest that, historically, we have expected too much of eighteen year olds? Particularly since we now know human brains don't usually "set" until the mid to late twenties.
When times are easy and in the absence of challenges, people people rarely mature as quickly or develop grit.
I speak from extensive experience interacting with college and non college graduates across the generational ranges (21 to 60+) in professional and personal settings. Also, including people from Western and Eastern Europe, India, and China.
He found an escape with computers, he found friends probably playing online, don't restrict that to him
Reading books 9h a day or staying on your computer 9h a day is the exact same
What my parents did with me when I was 18 is: I could love at home rent free if I was enrolled in classes at university, or I could start paying rent.
Frankly, I don't see much of a problem with someone staying at home into adulthood, many cultures do that already. However the caveat is usually they have to contribute to the household, either with rent or housework or whatever. I don't see that as a problem.
My relationship with my parents is fine, I am good at telling them exactly what they want to hear to avoid conflict. I have tried to be open to them numerous times, it only made things worse.
I've grown to enjoy being alone, no longer feel lonely most days. Sometimes I do try to make some semblance of a relationship through games or other activities outside of the computer, but my social skills are lacking not for lack of trying or improving. There are many things I try to change and improve about myself, many sleepless nights reading wikipedia and studies trying to figure out what exactly is wrong with me and what I can do to fix it. I've hit a dead end with BPD, I try not to let it discourage me. I have overcome self harming mostly but the urges are still there. I am very tired and am falling into misanthropy, though I try my best to be the change I would like to see.
I do not blame my parents, my decisions have been my own and I try to be informed. They are human and have made mistakes. It is unfortunate that those mistakes have caused extensive damage to my mental. The things I want most in life are simply unobtainable due to my broken perception of relationships and emotional dysregulation. It is unfair to burden another human with my existence, for what I need they could never hope to provide, though many have tried and walked away hurt, all my fault.
I doubt OP could possibly do worse than this, but the ramifications of such actions should not be taken without heavy consideration. I want to do my best for the next generation and hopefully die soon so no more could be asked of me.
the thing that i'd like to stress is that i don't think any of this is your fault. on the surface it looks like it is, but blaming yourself is not helpful.
The things I want most in life are simply unobtainable due to my broken perception of relationships and emotional dysregulation
i can relate to that. it took me a long time to understand what i needed to get out of a relationship and what i could contribute, because my parents didn't show me.
please continue to try. don't give up. i don't know what can help you. try making connections online. they are more distant, but less potential for hurt. and maybe, if you can, try travelling. you will meet lots of people to try to connect to, but you are not forced to stick around. i don't know if that works for you, but i think it's worth for the experience.
If you're into reading, I can recommend "No Longer Human" by Osamu Dazai. It won't cheer you up or anything but you might identify with the protagonist. As long as you're doing better than him, you're doing alright.
Hang in there, baby.
Stop buying things for 18 year olds - including clothes and other necessities other than the absolute basics (assuming they live at home) - 8 hours per day free time means they have enough free time to get a job and pay their own way.
As a parent of 4 successful kids - all now grown - leaving them wanting more than you provide them for free - that they then have to work and pay for themselves, can do wonders.
[EDIT] Just to back up your "if you can't pay for it, you don't get it" approach, that is. Strong agreement. Risky perks like Internet access must be earned. As for video games, the Switch is nice because you can easily physically remove it to somewhere else without having to unplug a bunch of stuff. Switch isn't there = no video games right now. Switch is there = video games are OK. Zero monitoring required.
Would you expand on why this is "batshit insane"?
Phones are one of the most ubiquitous pieces of tech on the planet, have several very beneficial uses, make it easier to connect and stay in touch with friends, etc. Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of "batshit insane" to me.
They do not and cannot realistically do this. Meanwhile, it's like they're letting them walk around with gameboys that can also be (and constantly are) used to clandestinely bully people and take creepy photos and share them and shit. It's plainly insane.
[EDIT] Further, they're at school. How much "stay[ing] in touch with their friends" do they need to do?! They're either in class, so shouldn't be fucking around on their phones (the problem: they do, a lot, and at least around here most admin won't take their phones away or ban them from having phones at school for it) or they're between classes or at lunch or whatever and can just talk to their friends.
I guess we disagree on the fundamentals. I believe kids can be taught how to interact with technology responsibly. In fact, my whole goal as a parent is to teach my kid how to responsibly navigate through life (which has increasing amounts of technology that they must eventually learn how to interact with).
Sometimes they need a bit more hand-holding (e.g. parental controls on a phone so it isn't a gameboy) until we can properly discuss something and settle on appropriate boundries. Other times they surprise me with how responsible they are. But if you're starting from a position of "kids can't learn to use a phone responsibly", I'm not sure what to say.
A school cannot do this while doing all the other stuff they have to do, and you don't get to teach your kids' peers not to do horrible things with their devices.
AFAI am concerned teaching them responsible use would include teaching them that a smartphone has no place in school. Shit, they never let us carry dumb phones and it was only near the end we could even keep them in our lockers, and that was the right decision. I don't think they let our predecessors carry Electronic Football around at school, either, and that was also the right call, despite those devices posing ~no danger and being about 1% as disruptive as a smartphone.
Isn't the responsible use of a phone during school to turn the phone off?
I graduated from a relatively affluent public high school in 2006, and a significant number of students had cell phones in school. It was common for teachers to take student's phones - most of which could only text/call - if they used them during class.
Giving them unrestricted access to phones is not how you do this. That’s like saying that for every kid who wants to eat ice cream for dinner every night, that you’d give them an unlimited supply and “eventually” they’ll figure out why that’s not good (after they’re already morbidly obese and have diabetes).
The starting point for a limitation is that they have to be forced into the limit (by the parents setting and enforcing the rules), which mentally creates a baseline of what’s acceptable vs not. Then you can progress into something that’s less restrictive over time, which is where the shifting of responsibility happens.
Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age).
[EDIT] Also:
> Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age).
I started my first job at 15, as did tons of my classmates. Is that no longer a fairly ordinary age for a first job? Has it changed that much changed in a bit over two decades?
They’re not a part of my life.
My parents did some pretty messed up things to try to get me to be a better behaved kid, the ‘70s and ‘80s were a different time, and I have no resentment against them because they tried their (probably misguided) best.
As kids go I was admittedly pretty difficult but the army straightened me out when I basically had the choice of joining at 17 or, who knows, didn’t see any other options at the time.
You are correct.
I had a neighbor years ago who passed away suddenly and he had two adult kids living with him in their early-mid 20s that weren't working or going to school. After a few months the bank foreclosed on their house and kicked the kids out. They had no money and no place to live, I'm not sure what ended up happening to them. Give your kids a fighting chance in the world people by helping them become functional adults.
What are they proposing he do with his time instead?
So from that perspective I can say… the internet and video games were very much filling a void in my life. It took spiraling into deep depression and thoughts of suicide to realize I needed to make the change myself. I suspect any degree of forceful action wont work sufficiently.
Find out what this kid wants out of life, actually get to know them, something my parents never really did. And this might mean asking to play video games with them.
Once you know what they want, what they truly want, you can help provide the tools and guidance for achieving those things outside of a television or computer screen.
Making the effort to actually connect with the person before suggesting an alternative lifestyle is key.
That being said, this person is a young adult and many people live happy lives spending lots of time in front of a screen.
I am still this kid (though now older and working). All the people calling to just unilaterally cut all computer access make me wonder if they themselves even remember being 18 or lived similar to this way when they were that age.
Though the screen with its infinite entertainment capacity can easily prevent you from finding what brings you actual fulfillment.
I double this. It breaks so many barriers to just embrace the hobby and go along with it. Once the barriers are down, you'll get to know the person behind that face much much better.
Often as adults we take a prescriptive approach to what young people should want/do/feel without actually knowing anything about them, and then we are surprised when they don’t respond to our wisdom.
I’ll add that the computer often also fills a social need. Within the often toxic social environment of the school, finding other people with common interests can be quite challenging, but online accomplishing such thing is a lot easier because there’s a twitch/tiktok for everything and likely an accompanying discord server.
When as we grew up playing with kids down the street because we had in common that the both of us had a bike or legos or whatever, we happen to live in a very different world in which often, not even the adults that would like the kids to “go out and play” actually know their next door neighbors.
And if that child is not getting the message that the time for that is now, then it's up to the parents to enforce that boundary.
The actual root cause to me sounds like lack of fulfillment or maybe social anxiety. You can't just take away the computer if you don't have anything to replace it with.
For instance, my 17 year old once let his friend drive our car. He lost driving privileges for a week. Did not happen again.
For excessive computer use, the 18 year old looses access to home-cooked meals, driving the car, money, laundry, etc. You could also tie it directly to the computer, such as limiting wifi or phone connectivity if usage goes above a certain level.