Ask HN: What makes you optimistic about the future?

128 points by agent008t ↗ HN
I feel like we are living in uniquely pessimistic times, at least when compared to the last ~70 years. The world order is being challenged, and not for the better. Massive geopolitcal problems are ahead with no good prospects - continuing Russian aggression in Europe, looming aggression in Taiwan, gloomy prospects over Iran nuclear situation. The US may well see a new civil war in the next few decades. Demographics, particularly in Europe, are not looking good. There are climate change risks to look forward to. Deglobalisation will lead to less global economic efficiency/prosperity. Tech advancement appears to have stagnated, and in any case the dream of technological innovation making tomorrow better has been replaced with the reality of tech making a lot of our lives worse, disconnecting people, pitting people against each other, hijacking our attention. Culturally, we seem to be getting worse at getting along with each other. Generally, we seem to have given up on making things better overall, and instead just focus on trying to prevent bad/worse outcomes. I can't remember when I last saw someone outline a positive vision of the world we are building with a rough idea of how to get there - mostly, anything referring to the future is some cyberpunk dystopia.

Given all the above, what makes you optimistic about the future? Why do you believe that the world of tomorrow will be better than the world of today? What do you look forward to in the world of the future?

220 comments

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Flying cars, cures for incurable diseases like cancer, Augmented reality Goggles, sex robots to look like your favorite celebrity, universal basic income, life extension drugs or surgeries to name a few things I’m looking forward too.
sex robots to look like your favorite celebrity

On the face of it that sounds like "wahey, sexy fun!", but if you consider it for a second you're actually suggesting a life without a real relationship with another person which is beyond depressing. If that tech becomes mainstream humanity has a major problem.

I see what youre saying, but then again, think of those who are unfortunately disabled, maimed, disfigured, socially inept, etc who have never/may never have a fair shot at a relationship. For them, sex robots/robotic companions could be a fantastic thing given that theyd accept them unconditionally. It could have the ability to fill an emotional and/or physical void for them.
think of those who are unfortunately disabled, maimed, disfigured, socially inept, etc who have never/may never have a fair shot at a relationship

None of those things stop people having relationships.

It will make things worse for a lot more people though, just like the likes of 'dating apps' and pornography did. I wouldn't be optimistic about that; the only hope is that we develop a culture to regard it as we now regard smoking, and try to revive normal human contact.
>Flying cars, cures for incurable diseases like cancer, Augmented reality Goggles, sex robots to look like your favorite celebrity, universal basic income

Energy inefficient, contradiction, evil big tech nightmare, creepy, inflationary.

* Tax them heavily until we've solved climate change (and if we don't solve climate change, flying cars will be the least of our worries).

* I'm guessing the GP meant "currently incurable diseases", so pointing out the supposed contradiction isn't very helpful.

* You're right that strong regulation would be needed to prevent the captured data from being auto-uploaded to the cloud, and even that might not be enough if it means all our embarrassing semi-public moments are sitting on the hard drives of strangers, ready to be used as blackmail material or sold for viral views to some social media algorithm.

* Tax them heavily except for people who are permanently lonely (and require them to have therapy too).

* Do you also think that countries shouldn't have a minimum wage? I assure you that a world with 50% unemployment and no UBI will be much worse than one with 10% inflation.

I'm not going to sugar coat it.

From my perspective lots of stuff looks grim and increasingly people seem just resigned to it.

Microtransactions required to activate heated seats in your car. The threat that companies will sell your period tracking information. Health providers "sharing" data with Google. Amazon products mapping and doing image recognition on the items in your home or providing video police without a warrant...

Yet we don't really seem to care at all. All the while, this data is repackaged and sold to advertisers who use it to amplify fringe messages designed to foster outrage, fear, and hate at each other rather than at them.

When I was younger, people used to fear that your phone was listening to you or that your tv might allow someone to watch you in your home... now, those things are product features.

Really only my kids give me any hope for the future.

> Microtransactions required to activate heated seats in your car.

I'm sorry, but the fact that this is the first thing you list under "grim" is just comical to me. This isn't even a 1st world problem, this is a 0.1-world problem.

The thing about the future is that it hasn’t happened yet, so we need to predict based on history. 1) Things that start in high-end luxury items eventually trickle down to the base models. 2) Always on mobile connectivity is getting cheaper and better. 3) It’s obvious to everyone that every companies goal is now to get all users on the hook for a recurring subscription.

It really doesn’t take a genius to see how all those things will come together on the near future. A subscription to heated seats is merely an example of where things are clearly headed.

Why is that horrible?

The logical endpoint is that my car just charges me per use for what I use. No money down, no repair cost, no buying a new one. Just like flying: I buy a ticket, I’m done. I’m not maintaining a 737.

Some might prefer that, and at any rate it’s not an example of OMG the world is going straight to hell.

In a world where you don't own things but can only rent them (and potentially where there is limited competition due to natural consolidation), you may be taken advantage of via high margins that result from an imbalance of power or information between you and the companies you rent from. What starts off as a great deal may quickly become untenable if they raise prices.

Laissez-faire capitalists will tell you that the solution to this is perfect competition. I'll observe, though, that perfect competition doesn't seem to have thrived in many industries. I'd guess that one cause is that no one (particularly investors) wants a business with razor-thin margins.

If you don't believe that consolidation will lead to fewer options and an imbalance of power in more industries, look at the history of today's monopolies. Look also at the advice that investors like Peter Thiel give to startups in books like Zero to One.

Why should your car charge you in the first place? The fact that your "possessions" can drain your bank account already seems pretty dystopian to me.

It's ok if you don't want to own a car, and just want to drive it. Just stop calling it "your car" then.

I think COL and housing costs show why rental markets are not good in the long run. The world will increasingly belong to a handful of speculators who can rule the poor into indentured servitude by owning necessities of life.
It's not that specific thing, it's that thing being a signal for what's to come. And it's not even the only signal.
To expand on this, it's the capitalization of every aspect of human existence. I simply want less capitalization in my life. There is essentially no way out - either I can submit to subscriptions or I can pay a premium to opt out. There are no alternatives. I don't want to go live in the woods. I just want to live without the constant barrage of the micro-threats disguised as micro-transactions. It has become all consuming.

I thought we would have some control over how the world turned out, but no, if there is an opportunity to extract money, I'll be forever at the losing end of that equation. I want to opt out in a system that provides no means to do so.

I wish there was a way to identify and protest the product managers in charge of making these decisions. Hell, I'd pay to subscribe to that service.

And I'm sorry you missed the forrest for the trees.

Paying a subscription charge for heated seats is just the tip of the iceberg example from today's headlines.

It is an exemplar of the rot in our society that increasingly demonstrates the items you purchase you don't own nor can you repair them and that no meaningful privacy exists.

Perhaps this less "first world" example that follows from the same rot will appease you.

Once upon a time, farmers owned the equipment and seeds they purchased and harvested. Now, they own nothing.

Try reselling or harvesting and re-planing seeds from your crop this year and Monsanto will see you in court even if those crops grew from seeds carried onto your property by the wind. Those seeds and all future generations belong to them not the farmer.

I understand the frustration with this system, which I would hate to deal with as a customer. But when I read about it, I learned that you can decide to purchase the heating outright for a bit under $500, which I think is not an uncommon price for heated seats in many luxury vehicles (this was BMW). If a salesman framed it as "you can buy it outright if you want, or you can just buy it during the winter and save money", then I wouldn't feel so bad.

But if they deactivate the prepaid extras when you sell the car, that would be pure evil.

The fact that 'they' can deactivate anything in an item you own is dystopian in its own right. In general, items need to be usable even after their manufacturer goes out of business and stops supporting them, which seems to be less and less often the case.

People used to laugh at Stallman, but increasingly it seems like he was actually a prophet of what's to come.

Why do you believe that the world of tomorrow will be better than the world of today?

Because the world of today is mostly better than the world of the past. OK, sure, you can find (or manufacture) counter-points to that by being extremely selective in what you consider "the past", but on balance, technological and social/cultural advancement have made the world a better place. So there are some peaks and valleys in a graph of some hypothetical "world happiness / goodness" index, but so what? If the long-term trend is "better", I'm not too bothered by the idea that "right now" is a local minima.

What do you look forward to in the world of the future?

* The continued advancement of mRNA technology, to enable rapid development of vaccines for new diseases, and new treatments for existing conditions

* Fusion power to provide nearly limitless, clean, cheap energy

* Improvements in desalinization technology to make clean fresh-water more readily available

* Nearly ubiquitous electric vehicles that use the clean energy from fusion (and solar) to provide transport without spewing carbon into the atmosphere

* Even better AI to develop new drugs, and newer, lighter, stronger building materials, and better battery chemistries, etc.

* More advances in genetic engineering to enable the creation of better crops that can, e.t. withstand drought conditions better, to stabilize food supplies, etc.

And so on. Generally, I'm bullish on what technology can do for us. What I'm less bullish on is human nature and our ability to use newer technologies wisely. But even there, I think that we, as a race, will eventually "grow up" and find ways to avoid some of our own self-destructive tendencies. Maybe that part is wishful thinking, but it's where I'm at right now.

I don't think it's particularly relevant what your science book of the 60's says. Of course controlling fusion is a hard problem. Nobody said it was going to be easy, or if they did, they were a fool. But there's no reason to think we won't get there eventually. It might not be in my lifetime, but so what? I'm not trying to be that myopic here.

I'm reminded of something I read, I think it was in Engines of Creation[1] where the author made the following point about technological advancement (possibly paraphrased slightly due to faulty memory): "If a technological advancement isn't fundamentally impossible under the laws of physics, then the only question is when it will happen, not if it will happen."

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engines_of_Creation

Fusion has been a couple of decades along for decades. It's pretty much always been 20 years away. I do think it's a bit of a pipe dream. We need it now if it's to be of any use for us. If it takes us nearly another century to get there (that's how long we've been working at it), it's far too late to be of any sort of help.
We even stopped trying getting to cheap nuclear energy, which seems to be a vastly simpler problem.
Fusion creates heat, not electricity. Turning that heat into electricity is not costless, and puts a lower bound on the price of fusion energy. So we're never going to get "nearly limitless, clean, cheap energy" from fusion.

But we do have a great upcoming source of cheap energy from the big fusion reactor in the sky. Solar power has been dropping in cost 80% per decade for the last 50 years, and that looks to continue for at least the rest of this decade.

There are ideas and projects aiming to go straight from fusion to electricity, maybe through photoelectric effect but without the water heat cycle. Those may be orders of magnitude harder than "normal fusion" but still - people work on that.
> Given all the above, what makes you optimistic about the future? Why do you believe that the world of tomorrow will be better than the world of today? What do you look forward to in the world of the future?

Many species, and viruses too, have population-level boom-bust cycles. Maybe humans will self-destruct enough to wipe out a fair number of us and our impacts will dwindle for a few millennia. It'd be cool if other species took the reins for a bit.

What gives me hope is that we shouldn't be the end of evolution, just another step along the way. Maybe someday a better homo will replace us, or AI, or aliens, or just us, evolved more.

I don't think there's anything more we can do about homo sapiens in particular; we've reached our biological limits when it comes to ability to cooperate and think on a global scale. Either we improve the species at the biological level or we're just gonna keep having the same issues, amplified by new technologies but beholden to our primitive minds.

So hopefully we'll get replaced soon!

Life, uh, finds a way :D

So your answer to “what makes you optimistic about the future?” is the apocalypse? Reminds me of pets by porno for pyros
It's just an apocalypse -- or probably many small ones -- for one species. The other millions go on to some degree, I hope! I don't think humans deserve some special place in evolution that make us more important than all the other life and life-like beings out there.

But yeah, I don't think there's any saving our species anymore, I just hope enough of us perish soon so other beings can have a shot. Maybe we can go through a dinosaur-like mass extinction and transformation, where our version of "birds" millions of years later can still be very successful even without dominating.

For our species. Fuck that.
Yeah, it's not a hugely popular philosophy with the pro-human crowd, lol.

But really, what do you expect of a species barely differentiated from chimps? Genocide and in-group obsession is in our blood; we are cursed by our genes. It would be cool if something like super-smart ants took over for a while. Or flying dolphins.

Yeah it would be cool to not exist, and it’s really cool to just give up on the future of our species, and to go around declaring this worldview at any opportunity, especially when some sucker specifically asks what makes you optimistic - that’s the coolest time to spring your teenage anti-humanism on them.
Touchy much? It does make me optimistic. There's a whole lot more to this planet than the humans. You don't have to agree, but sorry, that doesn't invalidate MY optimism. To each their own :)
> I don't think humans deserve some special place in evolution that make us more important than all the other life and life-like beings out there

> Tell me what a man finds sexually attractive and I will tell you his entire philosophy on life

More likely, one subset of humans (e.g. the ones who use birth control) will be replaced by another subset (e.g. the ones who don't use birth control, perhaps for religious reasons). Since evolution favors those who don't use birth control for obvious reasons.
The times when birth rate was our limiting factor are several centuries behind us. But good news, once our current population is decimated, we will also lack the means to produce viable birth control!
We're no longer limited to simple genetic reproduction, though... our units of cultural/technological/etc. output are also part of our legacies, whether as individuals or collectives. I think that's super cool, way more so than the old religious idea of "souls" and whatnot.
Because the world might be going to hell in handbasket, or it might not. And either way, there's essentially nothing that that you or I can (reasonably) expect to do about it. Or not quite nothing, but probabilistically speaking, epsilon close to nothing.

However to the extent that any of us might, just might, be able to help steer this civilization out of the death spiral it seems currently locked into -- such a correction will, almost by definition, require a very strong degree of (the right kind of) optimism. If we just say "F it", and give into pessimism -- we won't have any chance at all.

Therefore, from rationalist first principles -- we might as well go with optimism. In fact if the current situation we're in can be thought of as an evolutionary test -- then it is one that is selecting for 3 traits: (1) intelligence, (2) ability to cooperate, and (3) optimism (again, of a certain "right kind" that I don't have time to go into at present).

I realize this argument sounds a bit pat (like Anselm's argument for the existence of God), but I do think there's a lot more substance to it.

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personally I believe the most rational approach is to believe realistically and act optimistically. I believe whatever I think is most likely to be true, not what I want to be true. However in certain cases I may act as if what I wish were true is in fact true, just because it makes life better (doesn't apply to all scenarios though)
Why believe at all? What will happen will happen. If that's the end of civilization or a golden utopia will reveal itself in due time. Regardless, the way to act is the same, that is, true to yourself.
Such daoism will lose infinite games to a motivated nihilistic opportunist.
I don't have an answer but this is a great question, and I thank you for asking it in this way.
People are resilient. We have survived much harder catastrophes, and managed to restore the civilization each time.
When has there ever been a period of time where humans have the capacity to destroy the planet? I’m not even talking about climate change but nuclear weapons. I think the likelihood of a nuclear exchange is extremely likely within the next hundred years.

Especially as nations learn that once you’re a nuclear power you’re respected on the world stage.

How do you honestly come back from this? I’m genuinely curious because until some technology can be made to prevent this, it’s the only existential threat that can happen at any moment.

It is hard to destroy the planet even with nuclear weapons. A full-scale nuclear exchange will probably put humans back in the stone age, but the species will probably survive (billions will die, the life will be awful, of course, and it will take thousands of years for the civilization to recover, but humans will survive). With some deliberation, it is possible to destroy all complex land-based lifeforms (with radiation weapons / cobalt bombs, and you need _a lot_ of them, like a planet-scale suicidal project, I don’t think it is possible to organize), but even with that, I don’t see how it would be possible to destroy life in the oceans, at this point.
- We have the accumulated knowledge of the entire human history at our fingertips and can avoid a large chunk (not all, obviously) of the pitfalls that befell our ancestors. maladies that basic sanitation eradicates, old deadly diseases like leprosy, polio, being eaten by lions, mass starvation ... those are things that are not a Thing in developed countries, and a lot more developing countries than before. The amount of people being lifted out of critical poverty worldwide over the last 50 years is another wonderful example.

- obviously we have new pitfalls our ancestors didn't ... but when was this not true for the human species? there's always been adjustment periods to new social changes and technology. The printing press created one heck of an information upheaval that changed power structures of institutions and nations, and yet it's considered a net good now.

- On a more individual scale, the human brain for some has a tendency to always need to worry or be anxious about Something. The ancients were simply anxious about other things. This has been a thought that's helped me from negativity getting in the way of the potential positives I could accomplish.

- "if it bleeds, it leads" is one of the truest quips about the news I've heard and seen. Simply logging off of news and focusing on local connections will do wonders for the mindset. What you see on TV does not equate to reality.

And lastly, some may feel this quote is overly twee, but the older I get the more it rings true:

"When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping. '" - Mr. Rogers

Where are the helpers?
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I gotta say, Bill Gates single-handedly owning the health infrastructure of the third world doesn’t put me at ease. This is a man who was ruthlessly capitalistic throughout his career, and hung out with a convicted rapist (Epstein) on a regular basis. At the very least, he’s an “ends justify the means”, willing to look the other way kind of guy. There’s no doubt the Gates foundation has done a lot for global health, but it’s too much political power for one flawed person to have.
> was ruthlessly capitalistic throughout his career

"was"?

Pay attention and you'll start noticing them more. And if not, become a helper yourself and you will certainly meet fellow helpers.
Honestly I kind of like the idea of being killed by a lion over dying from a nuclear holocaust. Like a real man.

I've been telling people this for like over a decade and they don't think I'm joking, there is a hint of seriousness to this though. I mean these are all things that killed a relatively lower amount of people, stuff we could bounce back from and adapt to basically - it wasn't like the prospect of any of the things you listed basically means all life on earth is completely screwed over for centuries and centuries until cockroaches become sentient or whatever.

how is being killed by a lion manly?
The idea is that you had the courage to get near enough to a lion to die by it, but you're just a speck of dust to a plane flying a nuclear warhead.
Oh that part is just a dumb joke. It's just thinking in the broader picture, people have been getting eaten by wild cats for thousands of years. We can continue doing that sustainably for another unit in the thousands of years. But if things start getting nuked? At BEST you happen to be in the far reaches of the Patagonia or maybe New Zealand, and even then the fallout may cause agonizing death.

At least if you get in a fight with a huge cat you have a chance of killing it with your bare hands [1]

[1] https://youtu.be/vXr_1KqZtAY

This must have been a small lion. A full grown lion will hit you like a train.
Yeah, usually the ones who go after humans aren't of the strongest variety but there is the odd case out of countries like Uganda as well [1]

[1] https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/50349/20220416/huma...

also something observable with wolves. those who attack humans are usually too sick to run after hares and deers. lucky for us they haven't figured out yet that humans are basically a free all you can eat buffet.
Eaten by a lion can be a slow and painful death. It will be worse if they decide to play with you a bit before eating you alive. You will get bitten bite by bite with blood flowing out slowly. It is incredibly cruel process and can take hours if you're unlucky. It is hard to regard it as 'manly'. I will pick nuclear blast any day as I will be gone in less than a second.
Alot of us don't live in nuke target zones and will just die slowly of the collapse of civilization, nuclear winter, fallout etc anyways and it won't be due to our horrible decisions.

Gimme the cat. I'll take agonizing hours over days.

Just do what I did and move to Washington DC. Problem solved.
1. I realize this is a narrow/selfish view, but if you are European or American, does it really still apply? Have things really been improving much in this regard there since the 90s/2010s? Why is the future here going to be brighter for Europe/America in this regard? I do realize I am moving the goalposts here a bit.

2. Again, the internet has been around for some time, and it was arguably better 10-15 years ago. Old message boards and old YouTube are certainly better than modern Twitter, TikTok, instagram 'influencers'. Yes, there was plenty of rubbish on the internet back then too, but at least we knew it was rubbish - now it is mainstream culture.

3. Logging off the news will not switch off the big risk that will affect all of us, like the stuff I outlined in the original post. But yes, at least it will help with worrying about things outside your control. Still, that is kind of saying "yes, there are few reasons to be optimistic, the world is getting worse - find ways of dealing with it".

Some negative things we're experiencing have silver linings

- less reliance on gasoline / fossil fuels for energy

- waking up from wishful thinking about China / Russia

- we invented brand new medical tech to handle Covid, which maybe could open all kinds of fronts in fighting other diseases

I think the pessimism we are seeing now is the natural hangover from the period of optimism we saw in the post-war era. A lot of stuff just came together, and for almost a hundred years we've seen each generation get wealthier, have more stuff and more advanced technology than ever before. Pretty easy to grow up thinking that trend will keep on going forever. Nasty hangover when that turns out to be wrong. Periods of prolonged prosperity like that aren't unique in history, but have all ended. I don't really see any reason to think this time would be different.
In my view, it's not (directly) because of the post-war optimism. That period saw great advances in almost every area of life. It's the period of stagnation that followed that's causing the hangovers. In the political and social arena, we stopped innovating in the 80's. We were just coasting on the stuff we built before, without clear direction and without new goals. Everything we had was "good enough".

Except that we didn't work to maintain what we had. Education systems were gutted, public infrastructure was sold off to the highest bidder (Bayh-Dole act, every privatization of government services that followed), maintenance was deferrred (many roads and bridges are deteriorating in both Europe and the USA, 80% of nuclear plants in operation today will reach EOL in roughly ten years without replacement).

Yes, periods of prolonged prosperity aren't unique, and they always end in one of two ways: destruction or decadence. Take your pick.

for almost a hundred years we've seen each generation get wealthier

This isn't true. The last generation to be wealthier than their parents were the baby boomers: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/charting-the-growing-genera... . The average wealth per person has been decimated since then: Generation X is only half as wealthy as baby boomers, while the average millennial is ten times less wealthy than a boomer. And this isn't just because of their current age:

> In 1989, Baby Boomers and Generation X under 40 accounted for 13% of household wealth, compared to just 5.9% for Millennials and Generation Z under 40 in 2020.

So in 30 years time, the younger generation lost over half its wealth to the older generation.

That's only true with regards to the distribution of money, which isn't really what I'm talking about. Maybe wealth isn't the proper word, but you know how it was only the really wealthy Generation X:ers who had car phones? Well middle class Millenials grew up with mobile phones ten times as powerful.
Arguably, housing is the biggest and most important expense in one's life, and that has become a lot less affordable.
Tomorrow will be worse than today, but the next year will be better. Whether you're pessimistic or optimistic depends on your planning horizon. We're entering a societal winter - this means arrival of selfish people of high ability, they will bring darkness, using all the precious tech toys we've built - but when the winter ends, there will be another spring (in the early 60s, I think).
I'm 55, but believe than before I am gone, the following will be true:

Daily flights from earth to nearby planets. 99 percent of all diseases cured (other than hourly Covid variants). Universal Income for nearly all. Limitless energy.

That is way more optimistic than most people, though I should say that if 99 percent of all diseases that are cured include ageing then maybe.
Humankind is going through some serious growing pain and it's really a leveling up of human consciousness, but a lot of the old garbage needs to be shed and it's painful.
What makes me optimistic about the future is that humans are clearly past peak, now, and will factor themselves out of the planet's equation before too very much longer.
Are you saying that what makes you happy is the knowledge that everyone will be dead? Don't take this the wrong way, but that sounds extremely mentally unhealthy.
On the contrary, resignation is a perfectly healthy mental strategy to cope with things that are out of your control.
In what universe is being happy about the prospect of human extinction considered "perfectly healthy" ?
Rejection is a healthy response to a toxic culture.
However healthy "rejection" is is greatly overshadowed by how unhealthy it is to consider all human life as toxic.
Cheap green energy.

We've just had a stark lesson on how important the price of energy is to our economy. In the future, the opposite is going to happen. The price of solar power has been dropping about 80% per decade for the last 50 years or so, and it looks like that is going to continue for the rest of this decade at least. It hasn't had a significant impact yet because solar has been more expensive than alternatives, but we've reached the crossing point, and solar power is now cheaper.

Energy is a major direct and indirect input into the price of pretty much everything.

Some people are going to figure out some good ways of turning cheap intermittent power into dollars, and those people are going to make a ton of money, dragging the rest of the economy with it.

(Unless of course that mechanism is completely useless, like crypto).

> Energy is a major direct and indirect input into the price of pretty much everything.

The other major factor, of course, being land.

While I don't expect many major economies to implement a Land Value Tax in the near term, to balance out these costs more fairly among citizens and corporations, it's worth noting that we are about to see peak population being reached in China [2025] and the EU [2026], which may have interesting macro-economic effects.

[2025] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-11/china-s-p...

[2026] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Land is a very minor component of the price of anything. In much of the country you can buy a square mile for a few million.

Labor is the other big component.

> In much of the country you can buy a square mile for a few million.

Yet in other parts of the country people pay that for 1000 square feet.

The fact that people aren't building skyscrapers or gold mines in "much of the country" doesn't mean that there isn't high demand for housing or precious metals.

I would be interested to know, for example, how much energy would cost if there were unlimited free space (with good weather and topography) for installing solar panels within easy transmission distance from all energy consumers.

In that sense, energy prices are dependent on land prices.

I'm worried that having cheap energy most of the time will lead to more disasters like Texas in Feb 2021.

We should focus more on how to avoid long-tail blackouts than how to profit from periods of abundance, particularly as electricity becomes critical for transportation and heating, which have traditionally relied on fuels that are easy to store.

Honestly? I try not to think about the future because doing so brings wave upon wave of existential dread. Things aren't looking good, and it might be a bit of a hedonistic maxim but if thinking about it just makes me feel worse why should I? Let me work away at achieving my "local optimum" since that's all I can realistically do.
That has been my tactic too. Basically, think the XXs were great? Well, you have all the technology to emulate that in your own life - just need to find a few people that would be on board with you. E.g. think that social media is making life miserable? Find your social circle that are technology minimalists, only call each other on the landline (or equivalent) and actually knock on each others' doors instead of texting when they want to talk, and think that taking selfies should not be normalized.
Stop dooming. It's the best time to be alive. Millions of people are being pulled out of poverty and we continue to make massive scientific achievements.
Absolutely.

Best time to be alive, so far; but a hundred years from now, it'll probably be even better, except for all the naysayers talking about how cheap fusion is going to drain the oceans in 100,000 years, and decrying that the poorest people are stuck with substandard personal holovids.

Seriously. It's good to be cautious as a society but it feels like the general mood in the US has gotten way to anxiety ridden. We don't need to go back fully to the Reagan and Clinton absurd self confidence but we do need show some more vigor
I can go to historic archives of any time period that left a written record and find someone with a pessimistic take like your. Obviously the details are different, but there are always many bad signs for someone to point out.

In the end life isn't perfect, but it generally has gotten better

>In the end life isn't perfect, but it generally has gotten better

I agree with your point, but people take this as a given (that because things are better now they will keep improving). It can get worse, and it doesn't need to bounce back in the long run.

True, but one could also easily find someone with an optimistic take. Tons of utopian science fiction from the 60s, say. Not so much today. That's why I made this thread.
While I agree with almost everything you say (thanks, BTW, for a great question) I find myself being optimistic. Certainly, the world's oligarchs, both in the USA and other countries, are nailing down their control of political parties, news, militaries, etc. This is not good.

That said, in the early 1900s we had a similar thing going on and Roosevelt convinced the wealthy to share a little bit of their wealth with the common people, and that sort of worked out. I think it likely that the modern day oligarchs will make similar decisions.

This is likely to take the form of universal basic income, a 'smart' digital currency that can be turned off for people who don't do what they are supposed to, and it is likely that common people owning any meaningful amount of property will probably go away also.

So, where is the optimism? I believe that advances in science, massive automation, increasingly fun technology like VR and AR, more time for family and friends, will still provide a decent life for most people on the planet.

I was a kid in the 70s and people were far gloomier about the future than they are now, especially after I moved to the USA. Think of yourself as swimming in the open ocean: you can't feel the big waves (low frequency/long wavelength), just the chop you are trying to paddle through.

I think there are a lot of good things happening. There's finally progress on climate repair (tiny, but nonzero) which means we may have more time to fix things.

The last 40 years of entrenched bullshit is finally tottering due to its geriatric constituency, so I think there's a good chance for positive change on the horizon. And even the re-emergence of some of the worst people (let's just aggregate them into "the racist shitheads") I see as a positive sign: they were always around, but in the background. Now they have emerged because it's clear they are on the wrong side of history and they know that if they do nothing they will be greatly diminished.

There's no gleaming path to the future like you used to see in glossy utopian pictures in the 1970s. It will be bumpy. But overall I think the derivative is positive.

I'm not sure the USA will get its shit together, but it's only about 4% of the world's population.

> I was a kid in the 70s and people were far gloomier about the future than they are now

I was also a kid in the 70s and while it did seem pretty gloomy then, I think people are gloomier about the future now.

> And even the re-emergence of some of the worst people (let's just aggregate them into "the racist shitheads")

In the 70s there were racist shitheads, but they were pretty afraid to come out into the sunlight. Now they're just out in the open. I think I liked it better when they felt like they had to hide.

The other thing about the 70s compared to now: it felt like pretty much everyone was on the same page back then. There wasn't right-wing news and left-wing news, there was just news.

> In the 70s there were racist shitheads, but they were pretty afraid to come out into the sunlight. Now they're just out in the open. I think I liked it better when they felt like they had to hide.

Just out of curiosity, who are we talking about here? And are we sure it's not just because of more coverage? Lots of racist stuff that would have gone completely unnoticed in the 70s now makes national news.

militias marching heavily armed in the streets? marching in military formation up the capitol steps?
I'm asking specifically about the racists. If we were talking about bad things in general, that would be at or near the top of my list along with climate change.

I'm sure many of the marchers happened to be racist but I'm not sure that can be characterized as the main point or driver of why they were there.

You can definitely make the case that a lot of Trump supporters are driven by reactionary racial attitudes, but it's not quite the same as open racial intimidation with white robes and burning crosses.

You forget the bombings and assassinations of the 60s and 70s. Nowadays even racists don’t like being called racist. The majority of the population at least want to be more accepting of people not like themselves (even though execution of this attitude is still pretty poor). As I say, the derivative is positive.
There would be coverage of a KKK march through some town, for example, but it was always kind of a man-bites-dog kind of story. There'd be like 20 KKK'ers marching and hundreds of anit-KKK people on either side of the road. They were viewed as fringy.
Do you see in the news that these days KKK type orgs are marching around frequently and without massive opposition?

The last thing I can think of like that was Charlottesville 2017. That went pretty badly for the racists and AFAIK they failed to stage any meaningful follow-up.

These things usually happened in small towns in the midwest or south back then, not in places like DC or other large cities as often happens now.
Maybe I don't consume enough or the right news but I just haven't heard about these events. I googled "white supremacist rallies" and the first result other than Charlottesville was this https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/white-supremacist-grou...

Some white supremacists tried to join an anti-abortion demonstration earlier this year and they got booed out.

> There wasn't right-wing news and left-wing news, there was just news.

Perhaps in part due to the revocation of the FCC fairness doctrine [0] in 1987. I wasn't old enough to understand what news broadcasting was like _before_ this, and there are some criticisms of the doctrine, but what we have now _feels_ so much worse.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine

It's definitely related to the revocation of the fairness doctrine. Watch some newscasts from the 70s on YouTube [0] and compare to now - it's like night and day. Sure, the news was a lot more boring back then, but that's probably how it should be. Certainly sometimes there would be opinion, but it was clearly demarked as being the opinion part of the broadcast and it was towards the end of the broadcast. You could watch the 6PM news on ABC, NBC or CBS back in the 70s and they were each going to be covering pretty much the same news items in pretty much the same way.

[0] Here's one from '79: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvX25IG4tvY

I'm extraordinarily pessimistic about North America in general and think the future probably belongs to the rest of the world. I have spent most of the past decade away from that continent, and my optimistic prospects have shot way up as a result, but I look back at that region and just balk worse every time. Visiting back to the place and it's just toxic bullshit everywhere, I even got punched in the head over a jar of peanut butter in my last most negative encounter. It's crazy how the pettiest of issues just balloon into the most horrible kind of drama out in that culture. I wish it wasn't so, but it's been really quite a breath of fresh air dissociating as far as possible when the writing on the wall for things not socially improving was clear enough for me to get a plane ticket and do my best to not come back. It's a place where you could get shot for too much mayonnaise on a subway sandwich. [1]

If they want to get with the program they'll have to do something about a giant portion of the population being horrible people. I don't know what to say about solutions regarding that but then again I go as far as pretending not to speak English when I encounter people from there while abroad so I don't have to have any bullshit. If I can sus them out as being alright (No utterance of bigotry as I hear them talk in English is a big one, basic international etiquette like not interrupting people on an automatic basis over everyone else in the room is too), I might be OK with them but otherwise it's just way, way more trouble than it's worth to bother too hard on that when there's a giant world of people who don't act like that.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peUYpHbuu5w

> Visiting back to the place and it's just toxic bullshit everywhere

> a giant portion of the population being horrible people

If everyone you meet is a jerk, maybe it's time to look in the mirror.

Thanks for pointing that out in such a manner, that's really nice of you - I hope you have a fantastic and prosperous life wherever you may be and don't have to put up with the kind of incredibly horrible (And without getting into detail, very personal) experiences I've had growing up on that continent versus what I've experienced almost everywhere else I've been.

I'd like to add something - a quote amusingly often misattributed to Sigmund Freud or William Gibson, although probably just from someone on Twitter [1] - "Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."

[1] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/10/25/diagnose/

Not applicable to USA, where now 50% of population are verified Flying Monkeys.
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I'm sorry to hear that about your goddaughter. That is terrible.

Separately from that, you can't post this sort of flamewar comment to HN. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. We ban accounts that post like this, so please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Nuclear weapons? They are still keeping the next world war from happening, and probably the only thing doing that, TBH.
They also mean that the next world war is going to be devastating.

I think it's too early to tell if we've just replaced a medium risk of a medium scale tragedy with a low risk of an unimaginably bad tragedy.

There were two world wars last century, and we're not even a quarter of the way through this one yet.

There are generations coming of age right now that do not remember a time when things were "normal". I have hope that they will have the motivation to change things that my generation, and the ones before mine, chose to leave up to fate.
Anonymous electronic cash, something we've needed for decades, is basically possible today (finally) due to technology, proven market demand, infrastructure, "legitimate use cases", etc. There will probably be multiple systems, and then market mechanisms to interconnect. They will lead to the greatest loss of power by states and other coercive institutions vs. individuals ever seen in the history of mankind.
In the short term, all the fundamentals of the economy are doing well -- unemployment rate, corporate profits, wages are up, et cetera.

Sure the stock market is doing poorly. The stock market isn't the economy.

the gini coefficient disagrees. The US is the most unequal developed country, and continues to become more inequal. billionaires pay a lower effective tax rate than the bottom half of earners. if you think the economy includes all americans, then we’re doing horribly imo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/08/first-tim...

Yet it used to be possible to buy a house and support a family with children on a single income, and now you would struggle to do it on two incomes. That does not sound like a big success for the economy to me.

Perhaps a reason to be optimistic is that this trend will reverse, but it is hard to see a road to that. In the medium term, we are looking at a large population of retirees to be supported by a dwindling working population, that are also faced with servicing a massive debt that the older generation accumulated; at the same time faced by a rising challenger nation. That sounds like it could be dreadful, actually.

You used to be able to buy an 800 square foot house on a single middle class income, live on spam and potatoes, et cetera. It's still possible to buy a mobile home, eat spam and potatoes and support a family on a single middle class income.
The two scenarios are not comparable. For example, they would result in very different social environments, different access to education, employment etc.
You're right, the 2022 child would have vastly improved access to education. Mostly, but not entirely, due to the Internet.