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Ask HN: How to keep water-obsessed autistic child from wasting water?

45 points by bryanrasmussen ↗ HN
I have a child with autism, who has developed a fascination with the bath and running the water. If we stop him he of course has a meltdown, so what I am looking for is a method for controlling the water easily from another point than the faucet. I guess a plumber can set me up something like that, but I also wanted to see if anyone had suggestions. Also was wondering if anyone had suggestions for setting up a recycled tub, that is to say the water can be set to run back after running out, so that it does not cost excessive amounts.

92 comments

[ 4.1 ms ] story [ 165 ms ] thread
trh0awayman
What about one of those water features you can get for your backyard? They come in a variety of styles, including sort of a standing sculpture/set of bowls. You just need to plug it in with an extension cord.
sklargh
Not sure how tall the child is but an insulated rainwater catchbasin with a small sink attached that drains back to the basin might slow your loss rates. You’d need to make sure it was pulling from a relatively clean system (i.e. not gutters).
b0o
Amazon sells usb powered water pumps, that with a 5 gallon jug and some diy can make a reusable sink (google camping sinks or portable handwashing stations)
reportgunner
A fountain that looks like a bath ? Maybe not full sized even.
j-pb
This project seems to fit your need perfectly. It's open hardware, and designed for showers, but should be easily retrofittable for your specific faucet case.

https://showerloop.org/

Cthulhu_
That's actually really clever and IMO should be built into homes by default; there's so much water being wasted by heating up potable water and just letting it drain out. And most people aren't THAT dirty anyway. If this filters out soap and the like before it goes into the sewers that's probably also a good thing.
unixhero
Water is not wasted. It evaporates to the sky and is taken to water reservoirs elsewhere.
fknorangesite
> elsewhere

But not necessarily where it is needed or useful.

j-pb
M3 if water is not the usefull metric here, but energy. It takes energy to produce clean drinking wanter, and sinularly a lot of energy to head said water up.

A cycling system significantly reduces the energy footprint of both.

jtsiskin
“Actually, leaving your lights on all day doesn’t waste energy; see the first law of thermodynamics”
thenerdhead
There are running sink play sets that include a battery operated or usb powered faucet that recycle water. You can also make your own for under twenty bucks.
steanne
if he doesn't need to be IN the water, a pet fountain is a convenient loop to observe/play with
killingtime74
Unorthodox, in Wellington New Zealand, where I live. Water is unmetered. It rains a lot. He can waste as much as he likes here
xupybd
Wait for three waters. I suspect the entire country will be metered soon.
edmcnulty101
Why are they privatizing it? Does it not work?
xupybd
They're taking control at the central government level. It's been up to the local government to provide water but the central government is taking control as a small minority of local water supplies have been poor performers. I'm very dubious that this will improve anything. Most places have great water at very low cost. Normally this sort of a move will simply mean more red tape and less efficient systems.
killingtime74
Metering would cost heaps to install, probably not going to happen for ages even if they wanted to.
edmcnulty101
I'm from New Orleans we have TOO MUCH water there.
adriand
What if you simply reduced the flow (usually there’s an external valve) as much as possible without disturbing your son’s enjoyment, and then measured the hourly volume used, and then ran the numbers on the cost per hour? We have a temporary pool we put up each year and it holds 16,000 litres, due to that I worked out water costs and for the first allotment per month (it is tiered here), water is very cheap. You may find the hourly cost to be well worth your son’s happiness and ensuing familial peace.
noisy_boy
We have pretty high water pressure and that is what we did to save water - it is quite interesting how easily we have adjusted to the reduced flow.
ale42
There are water valves/taps that can be controlled remotely using Bluetooth or Wifi... never used one of them, so I can't comment more on it. There are quite some different brands/models and having different applications (e.g. for gardening, home automation, etc.). You'll probably need a plumber to install one of them ahead of the pipes coming to the bathroom, or replacing an existing tap (often such taps are already existing, e.g. to stop the water in the bathroom for maintenance).
JoeyBananas
go to a lake or river
RugnirViking
This is a good suggestion I think. Splashing about in a shallow stream is great fun, especially in the summer. Local kids always seem to enjoy building dams or bridges across rivers with sticks, stones, shovelling sand using bottles cut in half etc. Delightful stuff
leohonexus
Fixing it with tech seems like an XY problem. If he’s old enough he’ll figure out eventually how to bypass it / develop another obsession. Have you entertained the idea of therapy?

You might have success with a CBT or exposure therapist. If he’s too young a play therapist might be more able to help.

chownie
You can't really CBT special interests out of autistic people, to attempt it would be cruel at the very least.

A timer for play would be a definite step up, the sudden removal of interesting stimulus feels like a punishment for the autistic person.

jesuslop
Maybe the main shut off valve of the house
xupybd
I have friends who had a son with a similar obsession. He has a form of autism. They worked with him intensively and he's at the point where he no longer melts down. Everyone one is different and I'm not inferring anything about your child by mentioning this. Until reading this I'd forgotten about his obsessions years ago. If you met him now you'd have no idea what he was like before.

I don't even know what they did only that it was hours per day for years and year.

I was amazed at his transformation.

On a more helpful note, what about a fish tank pump and a pond or other water holding tank?

Havoc
Perhaps a silly idea, but how about one of those cat fountains that recycles water as a distraction?

That has the whole moving water & noise aspect without continuous water intake

carlmr
I think it's not such a silly idea. At least it works for my mom's cat, which also only drinks running water.
mgkimsal
And... we just got rid of ours, as neither of our cats would use it, instead preferring an upstairs water dish. We'd used it for years, and knew they weren't using it "much", but after watching more closely for a while, we realized they basically never used it. Replaced it with a regular water dish and they're drinking all the time now. Note - they were drinking before, just had to trudge upstairs each time.

But... earlier generation of cats used the fountain. Seems very cat-dependent. I suspect had we only had that option, they may have used it, but didn't want to test that level of harshness.

carlmr
Ours would only drink from the tap. It was very persistent. So we got the fountain.
MerelyMortal
(A little off-topic, sorry!)

Does anyone have advice for a cat that drinks water by dipping their paw in the bowl and then licking their paw?

My cat will only lick water straight from the bowl if I stand over her while she is at the bowl (when she tries using her paw, I grab the paw wiping the water off with my hand and say "no", she pauses for a bit, and then relents and licks the water from the bowl)

When I'm not there, she leaves wet paw prints through the house.

bigwavedave
I don't have any advice, just found this interesting because one of the kittens I had years ago would always stick his paws into the water dish when drinking. It's not like the bowl was too high or he needed leverage- the food dish had the same dimensions and he never did it for the food dish. He just seemed to enjoy having his front paws in the water when drinking shrugs.
MerelyMortal
Paws in the water while lapping up the water from the bowl with his tongue? Wild lol.
bigwavedave
Yep, whenever he was lapping up water, he'd have his front two paws submerged in the water dish the whole time! He was an interesting cat- he seemed to have sensitivity stuff going on. For example, while all cats raise their hindquarters when someone touches the base of their tail, he could be in a dead sleep and even the lightest touch on the base of his tail would activate this reflex to the extreme. He was a funny little guy, I loved him :). He liked to come and curl up on my chest whenever I'd recline during a zoom call, only to leave as soon as the call ended.
carlmr
It could be that the bowl is to deep / not wide enough and the it brushes the whiskers, which makes it uncomfortable for the cat to drink normally.
kypro
You should be able to limit the water flow with the tap's isolation valve. So long as the water isn't coming out too fast it wouldn't be wasting that much water compared to running a bath, for example. Not sure how you'd go about recycling the water though.

Do you think they would be interested in an indoor water feature? That could be an option.

Zenst
Get one of those water fountain pumps you can put in the bath so they get that flowing water vibe they crave.

Also suggest swimmming leasons and from there maybe a swimming club.

Saying this as worked for me.

wsostt
We had a small hand pump toy that would suck up the tub water and spray it. It was a manual pump so it taught cause/effect which is critical for development.

Second the swimming lessons. I have two daughters with a rare genetic condition and they are obsessed with swimming in the pool. My older is physically challenged, wears AFO legs braces, has a seriously disturbed gait, and frequently uses a chair when we’re out in public. But she can swim non-stop for an hour. Great exercise, great strength building, great for safety. I feel like her freedom in the water is an escape from her limitations on land. :D

taffronaut
It would be useful to know what the attraction is, since if you try to create an alternative, it might not be satisfying enough in the key aspect. Bath faucets are quite large, maybe the water output is quite chaotic, there's a significant drop/splash, and the bath (metal, acrylic?) could be quite resonant - as maybe the bathroom if it's tiled.

For a first step, you could turn off the main house water (assume this is controlled elsewhere) briefly until your child loses interest and leaves the bathroom.

DoingIsLearning
For a 'recycled tub' implementation, you can easily source a water pump from an aquarium supplier, if they sell gear for salt water aquariums they will most likely have large enough pumps.

Nevertheless, and I hope this sounds constructive, this is the kind of topic that you should really be discussing with an occupational therapist or child psychologist with experience in autism.

For some topics the internet can be a terrible place for advice.

freemint
> water pump

Some water pump models will break if they do not pump water but air. Only buy pumps which are able to handle air in take.

metadat
A fishtank or fountain water pump will be inexpensive to the point that it shouldn't be much of a concern, they can take some abuse and won't break instantaneously, even when used improperly.
bryanrasmussen
I mean sure, but none of our therapists know anything about how to construct a solution where the water recycles so we don't end up paying 300 dollars a month in water while trying to get him to not fixate on running water all day long. It actually seemed like the kind of thing that HN might be good at, thumbs up for the aquarium idea which I wouldn't have thought of.

on edit: changed a no to know, was multitasking.

skyyler
This seems like treating a symptom and not the underlying cause.
chownie
There's no disease to cure, running water is a toy and the child is upset when it's not available.

What exactly do you expect a medical professional to do here?

justWells
A professional therapist can help a child detach from an unhealthy attachment and coping mechanism.

There’s definitely a problem with a child wasting resources without being able to be stopped.

How is there not a problem here?

bryanrasmussen
sure, however my child is

1. nonverbal, which makes dealing with issues difficult and time consuming.

2. and has a number of problematic behaviors that might actually be more worth focusing on than their wasting water, since it is often difficult to fix multiple behavioral problems at once when dealing with autism.

at any rate, if it takes him half a year to get off of wasting water I would like to have a temporary fix in that half a year as well. Sometimes it's better to ship a quick solution than to wait for the perfect one, losing money the whole time.

Mandatum
Age?

Verbal?

Can they look after themselves?

From your description I assume under 14, no, no.

Recycling water fountain somewhere near tiles or a drain if you can afford it. There’s the pot type which has water running down the sides, low maintenance and they’re very, very safe.

freemint
> Also was wondering if anyone had suggestions for setting up a recycled tub, that is to say the water can be set to run back after running out, so that it does not cost excessive amounts.

Unless you actually have a cost issue (do the math on that) there already exist a really good water recycling system in many developed countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaimed_water even if it doesn't exist where you are, water is not lost due to the water cycle. In many places domestic water use is a negligible part of the water supply issue, don't be guilted into messing with your childs development for that.

I would generally teach the children to turn off water after it is done, to not leave the room if water is running and how to prevent flooding and how deal with flooding.

If cost is actually an issue a simple variant to reduce that cost without reducing agency is to have a simple mechanic constraint how far the tab can be opened that is tamper obvious. If those mechanisms are damaged address that issue . Reinforcing is possible but also increases the risk of damage to faucet which is going to be a lot more expensive.

Water toys which use less water but also have an acceptable spilling risk could reduce water use. This could be anything from a digital circuit using water logic that just stops doing something interesting or an analog computer with a limited capacity before it fills up whose drain rate is small or requires adult supervision (lock) to drain. Closed containers with fluids might also be interesting. Such as non mixing differently colored fluids which in a drop proof container.

If you want change the amount of water allowed in a way depending on good behaviour a 3d printing pen would allow to construct tamper obvious mechanical constraints with different amounts of reinforcement which are unable to be removed without breaking in most tabs.

bryanrasmussen
>Unless you actually have a cost issue (do the math on that)

well, I'm in Denmark, we share the water costs of the house with our downstairs neighbor and it's paid once per year. This year it went up by 15000 DKK (approx. $2,000) more than other years, which I think is probably my son's fault and this past month his usage has gotten significantly worse.

f0e4c2f7
Consider a video, video game, or VR experience of running water. If it's that faucet in particular take an especially high resolution video that can be played on a large screen.

Also see if maybe your child is interested in digging deeper into this interest. Books and videos on fluid dynamics are extremely complex and sprawl out into other areas of physics.

llamaLord
There's a good chance that the sensory experience of feeling the water coming out of the faucet is a pretty key part of the experience for the autistic kid, so virtual experiences might not work.
lr4444lr
What about some kind of fountain with a motorized pump that recycles the water?