In another life I might have considered doing a PhD after I finished my masters. My father (who has a doctorate) quickly put me off that idea. Looking at what you have to do and get paid to do a PhD (at least in the UK) it feels more similar to being a struggling artist busking in the streets while trying to finish their "killer track".
No wonder the most promising students drop out and go on to join finance or tech firms - the pay is an order of magnitude higher.
I'm sure there are various other options, but that's not the point. If you ask someone to take a supermarket salary and postpone their life till their mid 30s,then don't be surprised that people choose other paths.
The path that I'm aware of is, assuming a bsc starting at 18 and going for 4 years followed by masters for 1 year and a PhD for 4-5 we have a total of 10 years for age 28 which you could then do 2 single year postdocs to be PI/faculty-ready at 30. I'm not sure where you get mid-30s from.
The PhD programs I've looked at in the hard biosciences all provide a full tuition waiver plus a stipend with solid purchasing power for the area which definitely aren't "supermarket salaries" unless you're talking about management maybe. Maybe those people only want money out of life instead of to do research, but that's just my perspective.
the positions are so few and prestigious (more political than technic) than other that few valid seniors, the workforce would be made of rich elites trying to get busy. elites which would work for free and depress wages and gatekeep certain fields. i dont know if this is the case.
PhD in the UK is a different level of poverty compared with PhDs in any other “Western” country.
Can you imagine graduating at the top of your class and you living in London or near London on less than 20k pounds a year? You can double or triple that income in other phd programs.
The only advice if one really wants to do a PhD is to sample broadly across different countries and PhD programs and choose one that unlocks future options and also pays living wages.
> PhD in the UK is a different level of poverty compared with PhDs in any other “Western” country.
I disagree. I did my PhD in the UK, I did a post-doc in France and the PhD students there seem to have it just as bad, if not worse. From what I've heard from the US it's worse as well, you're expected to carry out teaching duties for pay, and your PI is more likely to string you along for 5+ years and stop you graduating since you're useful and cheap labour.
I lived in CA for two years starting a phd. Got 2k/mo, but fortunately on campus housing was only 500/mo. I actually saved 10k over those two years. Super lucky to have already owned a car and be on my parents car insurance tho. Would not recommend again.
13 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 40.6 ms ] threadNo wonder the most promising students drop out and go on to join finance or tech firms - the pay is an order of magnitude higher.
The PhD programs I've looked at in the hard biosciences all provide a full tuition waiver plus a stipend with solid purchasing power for the area which definitely aren't "supermarket salaries" unless you're talking about management maybe. Maybe those people only want money out of life instead of to do research, but that's just my perspective.
PhD students in a worthless program that would traditionally exist for children of the rich to dabble in get mad at being told to get a job.
Can you imagine graduating at the top of your class and you living in London or near London on less than 20k pounds a year? You can double or triple that income in other phd programs.
The only advice if one really wants to do a PhD is to sample broadly across different countries and PhD programs and choose one that unlocks future options and also pays living wages.
I disagree. I did my PhD in the UK, I did a post-doc in France and the PhD students there seem to have it just as bad, if not worse. From what I've heard from the US it's worse as well, you're expected to carry out teaching duties for pay, and your PI is more likely to string you along for 5+ years and stop you graduating since you're useful and cheap labour.
Netherlands: 3000
Sweden: 3000
Switzerland: 4000
France: 1500
Italy: 1000-1500
Spain: 1000-1500
Germany: 2000-3000
USA: 2000-3000
Uk: 1300-1600
Note in many countries you get benefits like insurance, pension, unemployment insurance (basically free money after your PhD).
In summary, there are different tiers, and UK is at the bottom tier comparable to France, Spain, and Italy.