Ask HN: Why are banks offering me jobs, but not tech companies?
Background: early 20's, no college degree, significant work experience (full-time, contract, and high-profile internships).
I've spent the past few months applying for "career jobs"; hoping to focus my time and efforts over the next few years on progressing up the ladder within one company. As someone who takes ownership of their work, I'm tired of jumping around from gig to gig as an outsider and really want to take pride in being a dependable, go-getting team player for 'Company X'.
So, after casting a wide net, I started hearing from recruiters--mostly banks/financial institutions and large tech companies--almost immediately. Interestingly, the application process for the banks were the most organized and I received my first offer within a month. The tech companies on the other-hand couldn't quite figure me out... For starters, at one tech co. an interviewer insisted on knowing my salary requirements, and because it was a company I really wanted to work for, I responded by saying "flexible". She asked me again, and I told her about a job offer from a bank and she looked up to say, "who wants to work at a bank?". The interview ended abruptly and the next day I found out the company wasn't going to proceed.
While all this was going on, I was truckin' along through Google's application process. Considering how competitive Google's hiring requirements are, I was not feeling optimistic until they invited me to the final, on-site interviews. I left their offices (which are awesome btw) feeling really good. I honestly thought that it could not have gone any better. Unfortunately, the next day I was told they were proceeding with different applicants. My heart dropped into my stomach; I had come so far, tempted by the possibility of being a part of the dreamy Google culture, only to be shot down in the end.
Despite not having a college degree, I'm a fairly straight-arrow professional. I take work very seriously, and so I dressed-up (coat and tie) to all my interviews to reflect that. Considering the stark contrast in culture between banks and Silicon Valley tech companies, is this character trait playing against me at places like Google? I can't help but over-analyze the situation as all my cards seem to be falling on one side of the table.
I'll take any advice I can get from the HN community. Thanks everyone.
18 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 53.8 ms ] threadIf you are the kind of person who wants to wear a suit everyday, then working at a bank is more likely to provide a better cultural fit - it's as simple as that. In other words, take each interview seriously enough to know when under-dressing is ok.
Btw, I would love to see your CV/application letters since you are obviously doing something right with your applications.
No, but in all seriousness, I get (and appreciate) what you're saying. Considering my less than conventional educational background, I just wanted to exude my seriousness in the workplace. But as you mention, culture is extremely important at Google, and I trust that they have interviewed enough people to know who "fits" their organization; regardless of one's capacity to do the job.
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Selection processes which deal with a large number of applicants are often geared to find reasons for eliminating candidates.
In other words, if fit was the issue, the person who decided that you didn't, may not have any particularly good basis in experience for making that determination - could be they just don't like people in suits.
I wouldn't have mentioned who the other offer came from. It's not something they need to know.
Are you actually flexible? Surely there's an amount you like. I would have said something like, "I have an offer for $X a year, but I'd much rather prefer working for you, so my minimum would be $Y," where $Y < $X.
And you've just pretty much guaranteed that you'll get an offer for no more than $Y.
Honestly, as someone who has an interest working with large data-sets, I took her remark ("who wants to work at a bank?") as somewhat insulting. This specific interviewer was not a hiring manager, but rather questioning me for "cultural fit". I asked how long she had been with said company and she admitted "less than three months," which surprised me. I really got the sense that her hating on banks was regurgitated water-cooler verbatim, because she definitely had no experience working for one.
As a young professional working in technology, I think banks present interesting big-data challenges.
That said, I work with other software developers who have worked for a few of the major banks and they said it was awful, basically, I don't think its bank-specific, but there is a major divide between a company that's primary function is to produce software and one whose isn't, and banks do not exist to produce software, its just a means to and end for them, so projects are managed as such and developers are treated as such.
Google, the better I-banks, etc. will have a recruiting process that's professional enough that they won't reject applicants because they were a bit too formally (or informally) dressed -- especially for a position that won't be customer-facing (I'm assuming you aren't applying to sales jobs).
I'd call up the firms you've interviewed for and ask what they liked and didn't like about you, ask them to be honest. Most interviewers will answer!
I disagree. The recruiting process is still based pretty much entirely on human judgement. If you come into a t-shirt culture wearing a suit, it hurts you. The interviewer is looking at you thinking "why is this guy in a suit?" and it's a strike against you, just as surely as coming underdressed would be. You don't want to give the interviewer superficial reasons to vote "no hire".
> I'd call up the firms you've interviewed for and ask what they liked and didn't like about you, ask them to be honest. Most interviewers will answer!
No, they won't. Most large companies have policies against revealing why a candidate was eliminated. Revealing that info opens them up to litigation. "Oh, you say I wasn't hired because I don't know Python, but then you hired this other guy who doesn't know Python. Must be because I'm [some trait that probably wasn't a factor but might be grounds for a lawsuit if I can convince 12 random people on a jury]".
2) I had similar experiences. While our situations differs in some key aspects (I'm much older, have university degrees, long work history), my work history has also not been the text-book IT career path for most of the time. I also found banks much more interested in me than IT firms.
3) My speculation on why that is: Banks are better (in light of recent bank problems, maybe "more willing") at risk taking. Your circumstances make you less predictable than a candidate that has a "standard" career path. Big corporate IT is a lot about minimising risk. IT chooses the candidate that poses the least risk of a bad hiring decision. Banks may be willing to accept higher risk for higher potential return. My speculation is based on conversations I had about this topic with a small sample hiring managers at banks and IT HR managers I worked with.