Ask HN: I'm in a rut. How did you get out of yours?
In a nutshell, I'm dissatisfied with how my life is going. I can't galvanize myself to do anything. I'm on the clock right now, and here I am complaining about my life instead.
I don't give a damn about my employer, or the product it makes. I can't get interested in it. I can't get excited about the tedious parts of my work, and I can't even get excited about _automating and eliminating_ the tedious parts of my work.
And it's not just my day job. I'm ostensibly working on a game on the side, but I haven't touched it in months. I'm not even sure I want to continue it, as I've been working on it for years without being able to fulfill my goals for it. And this is coming from someone who got into computer science _because_ of video games.
Things that used to bring me joy...don't, any more. All I really look forward to these days is getting high and playing video games or watching Seinfeld reruns each weekend. And even that barely tickles my fancy these days! There's a game coming out this week that I should be excited for (because I love the series it's part of), yet I can't even galvanize myself to purchase it.
I can barely even open my IDE at work, as it greets me with dread where I once found joy and ambition.
Also, I have ADHD. This is probably relevant, but I haven't quite figured out how.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person here who's ever felt like this, so my question is this: *if you've ever been in this kind of rut, what was the nature of that rut and what did you do about it?*
Also, one thing I'd like to clarify: I'm not suicidal.
226 comments
[ 18.5 ms ] story [ 539 ms ] threadAlso motivation and inspiration are unreliable. They ebb and flow. Discipline is key. It precedes any action and will bring you closer to your goals.
People give us meaning and good social feelings.
> Things that used to bring me joy...don't, any more.
Some people will say "it's depression", but I think we change, and some old things no longer bring joy, while some new things do.
Hae you tried adding randomization? As in, try some weird stuff (say kayak or whatever) to see what brings you unexpected joy?
It may not work for you, but it often works for me so you may want to give it a try? Serendipity, chance and a free spirit mix well.
I loved that idea. Obviously, the book took it to an extreme but really what is life anyway, isn't it all just chaos and a lot of seemly random events? New pretend we have control and in some cases, it's this that actually makes us miserable.
I'm curious since you recommended it to OP, how you apply this in your own life and if you have some examples of things you have discovered.
Totally! I follow the dice method myself, with some twist: for daily repeated decision. I complement it with a rank ordered list of my preferences, where sometimes I simply invert the list.
So if there are 10 options, I would usually choose the 1st one (ex: my favorite drink) but sometimes I chose the last one (here, my least favorite drink). The dice says when I do that, with a minimal frequence of 1/6th for a regular D6.
> I'm curious since you recommended it to OP, how you apply this in your own life and if you have some examples of things you have discovered.
I have discovered I don't really have food preferences, and that what other human beings think taste good will taste good (even if not to my taste YET) at least after a small exposure period.
The most interesting discoveries (ex: meat: now I like it almost raw!) have been made through this funny algorithm.
Haha, I’m in the same spot as OP and I recently bought a kayak. It’s hard to find free time to go to the river but it’s true that I’m really enjoying it. It’s a great activity because you can choose where you put the cursor between sport and relaxing. From trying to go as fast as you can to totally lie down alone in the boat.
Not saying it would change anything for you OP, but the enjoyment is real.
Not saying it's the only cause of your problems, but you shouldn't underestimate the affect that getting high can have on how you feel when you're not high (especially if it's an every day or most days thing). Consider a (say 3-6 month) detox.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amotivational_syndrome
ADHD inattentive type, etc. Even low testosterone can cause a lot of those symptoms.
Many people see Dopamine as just a pleasure chemical, but it actually directly influences motivation and focus. We also all have a somewhat set amount of dopamine in a day, so participating in activities that release a short peak of dopamine (drugs, masturbation, etc) means that we have less dopamine, and therefore less motivation for the rest of the day.
I was also recently in a low motivation rut, however after making some lifestyle changes I feel much more motivated throughout the day. I stopped getting high, cut out all porn, and added 2 min of a cold water at the end of my regular shower. It was tough to start, but 100% worth it.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmOF0crdyRU
a related podcast clip with another interviewer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwrrKlII4XA
Good luck!
Step 1) Search "guide to burnout hacker news" and just read the recent or not-so-recent threads.
Step 2) Probably lower your expectations of yourself on a day-to-day basis. Do the absolute bare minimum to stay employed.
Step 3) If you can, see a therapist
Step 4) Forget about the game for now and don't guilt yourself about it. Realistically it probably wasn't going to get off the ground anyway, and consider it a learning experience. If you give it some time and want to come back to it, you'll probably have a renewed enthusiasm, but not if you just look at the source code folder and guilt yourself about it. Detach yourself from this idea—especially for those of us with ADHD—that you'll stay interested in the same things over time, or that you should. Let it happen naturally, explore some other ideas, technical or otherwise, see what does it for you if anything.
Step 5) Take a leave of a month if you can financially (but regardless of if your employer wants you too), and see if that changes things.
Step 6) Spend that month closer to nature
I was just about on the verge of burnout recently, but I just literally got on a plane and left. I risked my job to do that, team didn't like it, but I was risking my career yet again if I didn't do it.
Stay off the drugs for a bit to let your brain return to baseline. Exercise 3 days a week. Eat healthy. Sleep lots. Rest and recover.
My experience w/ Step 2 was playing kubb, barefoot, in my backyard for large chunks of the afternoon. Most of that time was spent telling myself, “work can wait, this is what I’m doing right now.”
I was going to suggest it but you already know it.
I’m in the exact same spot as you and I I have yet to find solutions.
Anyway the first step you must take is to seek for professional help.
My average day was a 4/10 before, now it's a 7/10. It's been game changing.
When medicated I just find I am myself, but doing things. I couldn't tell you if it's 40% or what, just that I imagine I am like most people now. Doing, slowly moving towards my goals, without being a soulless hyperproductive machine. There's times I have to force myself to do something boring, like everybody else does, but I can still take them to completion. I think this is a healthy balance, yet much better than my previous state of complete and total inertia and infinite self-loathing.
I'm not a therapist, but getting high might be interfering with your enjoyment of other things, since it increases your serotonin and dopamine levels to a point where enjoying other less rewarding activities (in comparison) can be challenging.
Feel free to talk to others looking to talk on Vibehut.io
you essentially need to do a dopamine detox and start back from ground zero.
for weaning yourself off THC my strategy is to buy high-end CBD flower (online mail order in the US) and then taper my usage. At this point I am consuming about 1g of CBD flower every morning and loving it. Some vendors I like are holy city farms, beleafer and flow gardens.
Stimulants seem to be the clear path to restoring balance. It is after all the most effective treatment.
Weed is toxic in a “bad habit that scrambles what little executive function we have” way. Absolute devil drug and more addictive than methamphetamine for those with adhd IMO.
Weed probably has fewer side-effects than adderall, but the person selling it doesn't have any obligation to take your well-being into account. So there's more of a reason for random internet strangers to point out the obvious.
Any references to prove or substantiate this? I’m specifically interested in the claim about adhd meds
My most recent successful quitting cold turkey was the result of a mis-dose of RSO oil. I took way too much and blasted off to the cosmos. I realized the only way out of the “trip” was to work on what I needed to change about my habits. During my session I made a list of changes I wanted to make in life and decided (or rather was told by the universe) that I needed a break from weed and everything else could wait. I woke up the next day and threw everything out related to mj use with the exception of a 10 mg edible in case I had any sort of withdrawal. After a couple days with no withdrawal symptoms I threw that out.
A month in and I can say there is SO much to look forward to after cutting out weed. The dreams alone are worth it. I had a single dream last week that seemed like a gift from the universe. It’s too subjective to share but it altered the way I react to and perceive any anxiety-inducing stimuli.
I still have so much to work on but it all seems manageable after this one win.
TLDR; Try to focus on one single thing you want/need to change the most and don’t let anything else overwhelm you. You need a win right now. The rest can wait.
Small changes in a few different areas, and at the same time, could spark something. New routine (sleep/wake time), a t-break (stepping away for a few weeks always helps me), a new hobby (a bike and some time to ride it), and even something as menial as cooking yourself a few meals can drive some fulfillment. Hopefully it can spark some creativity elsewhere like your game and your job. If anything, it will create a fun sort of experiment that you can move through and pick up small wins.
It seems like you are able to write comfortably, or at least at some length, using the emotional-outlay approach. Like--"this sucks, that sucks, here's why..., also I hate things because," and so on.
So let me just say--that's awesome. As a coach this lights my buttons up in ways your typical info-person will probably never understand.
The activity itself might feel whiny or focused on negatives, but a lot of people are really blocked from reaching higher goals and, suspiciously, they can't let themselves go there. Finally they do in some cases, and it always seems to work well. Human progress, and perception of progress, seems directly related to emotional outlay, even if not outright sobbing or cheering or whatever.
So, if possible, and if writing this even felt like a little bit of progress to you, I would keep doing it frequently.
Back when I was trying to overcome severe, chronic depression and anxiety myself, years ago, I kept a "life change" journal. Is life better today? If not, what will I do tomorrow? That sort of thing. Even writing "this sucks, I hate it" was often enough to be helpful.
In the meantime this might sound strange but IMO the way you write makes the game project stand out as a high emotional risk. So for now I think that in your shoes I'd personally treat the game as mainly a metaphorical interest, like a signal from the shadow: Find the joy in life again. And that's a major accountability project which ought to speak directly to your goals, but which is wide open.
Still, specifically related to game dev: I know some people who have walked a similar path in some ways. They were dying to make a game.
So--looking at the way you write, here's a method that I observed working well for people like that, which I'd probably assign to you:
1) Provide programming tutoring to someone you know, but really aren't too concerned about impressing 2) Give little assignments here and there 3) Slowly make coding a small game into a main assignment for them 4) Repeat a few times if possible.
What this does is keep you in the "I know how to do this" box (you're ready to teach people in lots of ways), with a light-touch treatment for the "but still, I haven't really done it before" (game dev) box.
And before long you will have done it, as a de facto compact with another person.
Just an idea.
I'm always glad to see a post by a Seinfeld fan. Good luck to you.
“Frolf: Frisbee golf, Jerry. Golf with a Frisbee. This is gonna be my time. Time to taste the fruits and let the juices drip down my chin. I proclaim this: The Summer of George!”
— George Costanza
Second, you clearly want to believe in something and have something give you joy/meaning. But you can't just sit around and wait for something to pop into your life. You have to make meaning. You have to decide for yourself what will give you a reason to get up and go through drudgery. What do you want to do with your life? What would you like your purpose to be (at least for the next 20 years)? Where would you like to go? You could keep the same job but use it to achieve some larger purpose, or change jobs. Or not have a traditional job; it's a big world out there!
Third, consider that fear may be keeping you in that rut of mindless entertainment. Fear of change, fear of the unknown, fear of missing out, fear of effort, fear of failure, fear of success even! You know you're not happy; so what will make you happy? Or what would you like to try that might make you happy? Or content, anyway? First decide on that, then build your courage, then go get it.
And remember that you also don't have to do anything interesting or fulfilling or exciting. You can just be a regular person with a regular job and regular friends and not seek anything. But do recognize the good things that you have and appreciate them.
However, when the app I created halts, the thousands of dollars will add up quickly, while hundreds of employees are on the clock and no product is moving.
I have many projects on paper that I think can have positive impact on hundreds of people but the drive isn't there anymore.
I'm hoping to ignore my emotions and try to just develop something, I think if it gained traction I might get that spark back but I will probably find reasons to be unhappy about it.
Now that I typed this, it seems like its a mix of pessimism, depression and my somewhat validated negative view of the current society.
can relate, especially about things out of my control e.g. banking system and monetary policy
For me, life would be really boring without children. It's more fun to watch her have fun than it is to have fun yourself, if that makes sense.
It's hard to explain this to people without kids (and definitely shouldn't be used to say "hey you should have kids to make yourself feel better!").
That being said, when we go to amusement parks, I can have a joyful day without ever riding a ride. Just watching my kids have fun is sufficient for me.
This is one of the reasons I'm very excited to have my first child (soon!) and reminds me of the pleasure of marriage.
By nature I'm never really satisfied with anything I do and am always pushing for "more". Marriage and hopefully children has made it so I can relax and not feel bad about wasting time and not pursuing the next step. I just need to care for my wife and my soon to be child. I've got a constant north star to help guide any decision I make and I always have a purpose
Im happy that this works for You but Im not sure that this is universally good way out of existancial dredd.
I would rather prefer people founding meaning first in themselves and their existance and only then add others to this equesion. Otherwise there is a risk of getting a lot of depressed people that play pretend together (speaking from experience unfortunately)
2) It's ok to not work on a game on the side. Do you have a clear vision for it? does that vision excite you? if no, either work on the vision, or find a vision that does. Or do something else entirely - maybe that's not the right side project for you.
3) What do you do for fun? I'd recommend not doing things like playing video games or watching tv too much - as relaxing as it can be, its ultimately not productive use of time. Is there a skill you can teach yourself? I've been doing drawing/painting, and amateur music production. I suck at both still, but I'm getting better, and making progress feels good.
4) How are your relationships in life? How are your finances? It might be that your negative feelings aren't due to work, or your video game, or seinfeld reruns - those might be a side effect of the real things impacting your mood and behaviour.
5) cut back on the weed for a while nad see how you feel. the weed is a coping mechanism - when it becomes whata you look forward to, it becomes problematic. take 2-4 weeks break. find a way to exist without being high and still emotionally stable. After a month you might find you dont really miss it.
Yeah, ditto but having been through these ruts many times in the past I can offer some advice
ADHD makes you incapable of settling into easy
You have work to do but it's easy. You have a side project but you've figured out the hard parts and so it's just the implementation grind, which is easy.
Find a challenge
switch your side project to a whole new tech stack. find a new job that you're not quite qualified for. take on job responsibilities at your job that you don't know how to do. mentor someone.
I also find going to meetups and conferences gets the spark back sometimes
> You have work to do but it's easy. You have a side project but you've figured out the hard parts and so it's just the implementation grind, which is easy.
Oh no. That describes me to a T.
Is there a differential diagnosis for this kind of behavior?
Talk to your doctor about it. If you can get in with the PsyD the process is pretty easy and non-painful.
The hard part is adapting how you approach the world once you know that you have ADHD, but it’s absolutely worth it.
That isn't to say people have to use meds/etc. to cope though, I totally agree with the rest of your statement. I just don't think we should imply that the word disorder must be a negative thing. I look at it as purely descriptive.
But if you look up some of the checklists or videos for "do I have ADHD" and seem to fit the bill of quite a few of the factors, it's worth talking to a therapist or psychiatrist who specializes in diagnosing it. There are many people who slip through the cracks in childhood, a lot of times because schools and docs are looking for the Hyperactive side, but many times the Inattentive side gets dismissed by a number of different excuses.
And as others mentioned, if you are diagnosed with it, that doesn't necessarily mean drugs or even therapy, but it can mean a better understanding of things you might struggle with and the reasons for that, which can better prepare you for coming up with healthy strategies rather than negative/unhealthy ones.
I found a stupid mind trick for that. If I can't do it, then it isn't easy. I kind of found a satisfaction now in doing boring stuff, feels a bit like a super power. I find it useful at work as well - if there are very boring tasks to do I take them. Team loves me for that and these usually are so "easy" that I have more time to "procrastinate" and e.g. do my own projects as well.
Also about figuring the hard parts - when I start I get hyper focused on these and often I won't stop until I figure something out, that means working even 16 hours a day - which is not healthy! That's why I rather avoid it at work...
Since you can't finish easy tasks, that becomes the challenge, therefore you make yourself finish it and it becomes interesting again because suddenly what was 'easy' in your mind you made yourself realise that it only counts if you finish it and you usually don't so the challenge is to be someone that finishes that stuff?
Are you medicated for this? I got diagnosed with AHDH last year. The doctor I'm seeing specializes in ADHD and OCD and they have found in their experience that there are kind of two forms of ADHD. One is the hyper active part giving struggles to focus. The other is a motivation side of it where it's difficult to even get started on tasks. For me it was certainly the latter and the techniques + the medication I have now have really helped me feel productive and motivated again (inside of work and in my free time).
Would really suggest seeking help with the ADHD.