Ask HN: Working in tech for climate?

298 points by oljvhnwo ↗ HN
I have been getting very conscious of climate change and human impact on the earth and would like to more actively contribute. I am quite a good senior programmer working in finance. Im having enough of devoting my life to things that seems so meaningless in comparaison with the real problems of humanity. Yet i see little I can do. Any one of you made the switch? Where did you find the job. Was it remote? Is it really making an impact?

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Work in government
Probably not responsive to the likely orientation of the OP, but a legit option.

A lot of the reason we know anything about climate is to do with government - NOAA, NASA Earth Science, EPA.

Check out workonclimate.slack.com - I found a job there. It is a quite active community of people thinking and feeling as you do. You'll find climate-related jobs aggregators and opportunities to engage with companies/individuals seeking talent of all sorts.
(comment deleted)
There are countless climate tech jobs — as long as you are willing to take a large haircut.
"What kinda hippie am I? I'm a business hippie."

-Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle (2004)

climatebase.org (edited from .com) - we actively post there along with other amazing climate companies.
climatebase.org
Thanks and fixed!
Requests an email address before you can see any actual info, but after you've given preferences for areas of interest. Seems... really anti-patterny?
You can dodge that; go to the "Explore by sectors" a bit further down, pick any. Now you can search without having to hand over an email address. But yeah, the first time I hit that "search here.. but only after you provide an email", I bounced.
Check out https://watershed.com/jobs

I have no affiliation, other than previously working with the founders at Stripe (they are some of the most impressive people I've met in my life).

After most recently working in ads, I switched to working in climate - feels infinitely more meaningful on a daily basis.

We're working on carbon accounting and industrial decarbonization here at Gravity (https://gravityclimate.com). Your background could make for a strong fit.

Email in profile.

Hi Ted,

Not OP but would like to get in touch as well.

Check your personal email.

I wrote this summary of what emissions sources matter if you want to move the needle, and how reputable sources argue for resolving them: https://climate.davis-hansson.com/p/big-picture-2020/

I used that as a basis to look for roles that - I imagined - actually would help make a dent. In the end, I took a job in the smart electric grid space, writing code to help the EU grid take on more cheap renewable generators at Tibber.

There’s a lot of software in many of these spaces! Decarbonising the grid, electrifying transport, building heat and industry, reducing agricultural emissions and so on.

Did that require any additional knowledge or training in electricity or physics?
Some roles at my current gig for sure does, but most do not. Tons of space for people with general experience in a very broad set of software skills - machine learning, general “backend dev”, apps devs, embedded devs.

There’s a lot of pairing people with general “here’s how you ship software” background and people with “here’s how the grid works” experience, doing skills transfer.

Part of the effort here ends up being training a whole cadre of people on how the grid works.

My email is in my profile if you want help trying to find gigs in US or EU in this space.

Thanks a lot! I won’t be looking for at least a year, but I will hit you up when I am.
If the plan is to "electrify everything" and reduce emissions by 50% by 2030, how can you not even mention nuclear power once?
Because the cost of construction AND timeline is not achievable before 2030 so the contribution of nuclear to the problem is post-2030. At best? you help to secure this form of power for 2040 and beyond. All nuclear under construction you are unable to shift its timeline. All nuclear in planning is subject to the regulatory delay of 10-15 years. The SMR push is not going to deliver power at scale by 2030, it will have at best a small handfull of megawatt units, when the demand is for terawatts.

If you invest in smart grid assist to balance wind, solar, battery, pumped hydro and can mitigate coal and gas load NOW then, as a new entrant, you have the choice to do that, or to invest in the longer term problem. If you want to invest in longterm Nuclear is no worse or better than any other choice. If you can reduce the cost of capital or increase productive efficiency now of the non-nuclear low carbon energy and grid, over the 10 year window you may have more effect.

There is nothing a new entrant engineer can do, to speed up nuclear. Its in regulatory and lawsuit hell. The engineer can help PV/Wind/Battery right now.

It's a choice, and goes to net present value, shape of the curve moving load, linear optimisation of choices...

Sometimes I wonder if people actually care about the climate at all, or if nuclear is just a political wedge issue used to distract from real solutions right now.
I think even people of good intent get stuck on blame-shifting and hindsight.

I opposed Torness (UK) in the 70s. I now would not protest an AGR, I think we need more nuclear not less. But, the time has passed where its economically viable in the necessary time window, for Australian power needs. LCOE, and time to construct has moved to wind, wave, solar and storage.

Some people can't get over this, and are stuck on energy density and scale.

Nuclear power has a lot of room for improvement. The problems are related to cost and complexity of the specific designs, not fundamental to the physics of using nuclear reactions for energy. Much like early computers, the current designs are large and difficult to build. There is a lot of potential to scale down and reduce costs, like was done for computers.

Molten salt reactors, for instance, offer a massive potential reduction in size and complexity (they eliminate a lot of the risks of water-cooled designs, so shouldn't need the same kind of massive containment structure to contain e.g. large volumes of highly radioactive steam in the event of a failure).

If next-gen fission research got even 10% of the resources that are currently spent on fusion, I think we would see a lot of progress towards improving the economics.

Not to disagree, but this lies in the "if we spent 5+ years we might improve in 10+ years and deploy in 15+ years" space.

If you look at the payback times on Battery, smarter networks, pumped hydro, windmill improvements, solar improvements, even now they are at their margins for 80/20 its probably shorter path to more beneficient outcome, but at a lower energy density.

The improvement in battery storage, and solar cell efficiency/cost is a good example. Over the same 5/10/15 year lifetime the drop has been continuous and at times above linear. We're now beyond the 2x improvement space, but the value of a 0.05% improvement in manufacturing for the volumes being made now, is really significant.

Nuclear, it would be very hard to project better than linear improvement in LCOE

I stress, I think we should do it. Its like the Manhatten project: Leslie Groves was asked to pick between thermal diffusion and gaseous centrifuge, and said "do both" -He was right: it turned out doing both improved feedstock quality going into the calutrons AND speed it up overall. Sometimes, its not pick A or B, its pick doing A and B and C

People realize we failed out of lazyness and ignorance and are despaired, so its just so tempting to start believing again in this free&easy energy dream.. I think the issue more is that the real renewables, despite being the only real free and now also already proven path in parts of the world, had and still have too much counter propaganda.. the rest is just humans
It's both.

People are generally good. If you want them to do something that is both bad and expensive, like continue subsidizing fossil fuels, then you need to convince them that they are doing something good, or at the very least the other side are doing something bad.

Nuclear neatly fills this hole of being sonething that is better than fossil fuels and yet lets you demonize people trying to fix the fossil fuel problem as innumerate, unsophisticated, dreamers etc.

To what degree the people who fall for this scam are culpable is hard to establish. They are also victims of the most expensive propaganda campaign in history.

Ironically, they also believe that people supporting renewables are just propaganda victims. They're generally less charitable about it though, feeling that anyone who is confused by corporate propaganda is the problem, rather than the harmful corporate propaganda itself.

There are a lot of people who choose the perfect over the good, even when the perfect is impossible. They revel in it. Incremental movement forward is their enemy just as much as going backwards.

It's easy to manipulate people who demand perfection because the alternative to perfection is low-energy lazy cynicism. I don't know how prevalent this manipulation is, though.

(And yes, I see the irony in my comment.)

The “90% clean grid” back casting model I mention very much includes nuclear! My little sentence there from 2020 is wrong, it should say “90% clean using wind, solar, batteries, hydro and the existing nuclear fleet”.
Rocky Mountain Institute in the USA has a long track record of delivering solid engineering analysis and direct involvement here and there; also defense work, if you care about that. Check with them about their current projects
You might make more impact finding the highest paying finance job and then donating most of your income to climate causes.
YAAAS If we can accelerate income equality we can reduce consumption. We need the 99% (better yet the 99.9%) to be as poor as possible. Income is related to consumption, and consumption is related to emissions and pollution.
> Income is related to consumption, and consumption is related to emissions and pollution.

This doesn't make any sense. The suggestion is to make more money and donate ~all of it instead of consuming it. You can't look at a plan to make more income and infer that the higher income means more consumption _when the entire point of the plan explicitly avoids consuming the excess income_.

Making a lot of money doesn't "accelerate income inequality" necessarily; there isn't a fixed amount of money in the world and it's not possible to hoard it.
You were downvoted but this is a legit point - people like the ones in this article on “effective altruism” made this decision: https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2020/09/23/effective...

If you can find an org that can convert dollars to lives saved (by climate advocacy eg climate central or direct action eg terraformation) and commit to donating a certain percentage of your paycheck to them it may make your job feel more meaningful. Doesn’t work for me but works for sum.

Effective altruism suffers from a number of issues, the biggest being the inability of current frameworks to quantify the effects of externalities via systems modeling. In short: if your job contributes to the climate issue (and finance certainly does), you probably won't counteract that effect by donating even the entirety of your disposable income.
It might if you're really good at making money and really bad at climate stuff, but your donation enabled people who are actually impactful to work on it. At an extreme, a finance person's salary could pay for a dozen good teachers who could go on to inspire hundreds to work more directly in climate, vs that finance person trying to become an educator themselves (if education isn't their skill or desire).

But yes, we don't have a good system for quantifying those differences in individual effectiveness per career path across society.

The point is you are also impacting the climate in your day job, whether you intend to or not. You are essentially taxing yourself by causing some harm that needs to be later rectified. There is a reason that "reduce, reuse, recycle" is stated in that order.
I understand that, but the carbon impacts of many jobs are small -- whether positive or negative. If you take a job that has a small negative carbon footprint, use some of the money and focus it on things that have a larger positive carbon sequestration, that's still a (small) net win.

And there are force multipliers. Education is one of them. Science/R&D is another.

Think of it another way. You can pay 3x more fancy vegan food that might be like 150% better for the climate, or use that money to plant trees directly and save more carbon overall.

Efficiency and magnitude matters. It's all CO2E in the end, but not every dollar spent gets you the same amount.

The carbon impacts of most jobs are huge, certainly in finance. The need for perpetual economic growth is by far the largest contributor to climate change.
Per capita, I mean.
Even if each person threw only one plastic bag in the Virgin River per year, Zion would suck very soon.

Participating in finance is itself a force multiplier for others to do the same, and with such an energy-hungry practice as finance, that is going to cause worse outcomes. We can't just buy our way out of the problem, because on the whole, the economic activity you generate enables others to help cause worse outcomes (even per-capita, it's a lot of people).

This suggestion only makes sense if you don't consider your job as part of the contributions to climate change. You will find that the things you help to finance in your job will cause more carbon emissions than you can counteract with your salary.
I've been consulting with Ambrook (https://ambrook.com/) who are working on this problem. Great team and worth checking out if you're looking at the space.
I've meandered down that path a bit.

I chatted with the Wren folks: https://www.wren.co/

I did an internship with Natural Capitalism Solutions: https://natcapsolutions.org/

I also co-founded a local food startup: https://www.thefoodcorridor.com/

I have also gotten some permaculture certificates.

Be prepared to take a lower salary. This was the biggest stumbling block for me.

An alternative I'm sure you've thought of is to donate some of your finance salary to climate non-profits or buy things that are climate conscious (including from a startup doing this).

This organisation runs a slack community where climate jobs are discussed and new postings for lots of companies get shared there:

https://workonclimate.org/

That said, while I feel similarly to you OP, I am also highly skeptical of the tech industry as an avenue for bringing about the necessary change. We don't need new tech, the problem is almost entirely one of societal organisation and changing the economic incentives. One particularly egregious example of a tech failure is the case of the carbon offset company that actually succeeded in starting wildfires and destroying a lot of forest instead, and there are plenty more you can find.

I think, while it might not feel meaningful in the same way, your effort is better spent financially supporting and contributing to climate activism that can change the perspective and politics in your community.

I joined a company that isn't focused on solving climate change, but we are working to make freight shipping via train more feasible in the US, which could potentially offset shipping emissions by a non-trivial amount.

I personally care a lot about climate change, so this work is quite a bit more satisfying than optimizing ad spend or A/B testing UI to improve "impression" metrics or similar.

There are places to find work where your time and energy help mitigate climate change (or other big problems), without the work directly focusing on that problem.

There are small-to-midsize firms working to get climate-related remote sensing data into the hands of farmers and others. Here's one whose chief scientist is really exceptional:

https://www.hydrosat.com

Here's another one that's focused on carbon and methane:

https://carbonmapper.org/

I know several of their board members and leadership and they are also very skilled.

I took a break from tech and got a Masters of Environmental Science and Management if you are interested in that path. It helps you really have additionality rather than being a hired tech person in the climate space. Also the Work on Climate group is good!
https://www.ctvc.co/

Climate tech VC newsletter is an awesome source of the state of tech climate work, and provides links to additional resources.

I have been interested on sustainability before 2000 (got education for sustainability certificate yada yada) and years later I became a dev. I looked for years for a remote work on sustainability but it was difficult. The pandemic opened the gate to remote work and Biden policies the momentum for investments. I'm currently working for Bractlet (we're hiring, you can find us in the current whoishiring thread) and before them I was working for CarbonCure (I think they are also hiring). Both great companies.

Real impact? I don't know as I'm obviously biased as my salary depends on that. Reducing concrete footprint (the most used construction material and with gigantic carbon footprint) sounds a good bet. Reducing building energy consumption is also a good bet. Other things that are interesting is working in lab meat (not sure it's a place for devs yet).

I'm happy with the switch and I don't see myself doing anything else with my working time until we solve this as species.

Where do you find them. YC has a climate startups (), LowerCarbonCapital has a jobs board, and you can always ctrl-f "climate" in the whoishiring thread. Tip, search for green VCs and check their portfolio one by one.

A lot of good programmers in the games Industry never switch out, but their skills can be used at satellite/rocket companies.

If you want to work for a weather monitoring satellite company, there is Spire[1] (also RocketLab,SpaceX who is hiring)

[1] https://spire.com/

[2] https://www.rocketlabusa.com/careers/positions/

You won't find climate change work at SpaceX.
well indirectly, since a robust satellite infrastructure allows for daily imagery updates. Governments use this to more easily hold corporations accountable for their environmental day-to-day actions across the earth.

Illegal deforestation? If a fleet of satellites is providing daily updates across the amazon, it is far more easily caught, rather than having it show up 2 weeks later after they have already cut out a chunk and left

SpaceX's involvement in those missions ends when the payload separates from the second stage. You'd be very disappointed if you went there hoping to feel like you were making a meaningful impact on climate.
I recommend looking into the carbon emissions per-launch (or per-satellite if you prefer that accounting).

It's bleak. Launching things into space is unsustainable and should be minimized.

ah perhaps, but doesnt seem that bad when compared to all the plane flights familys are taking for leisure, google hit https://www.inverse.com/innovation/are-rockets-environmental...

> Current rocket launches have a negligible effect on total carbon emissions — Everyday Astronaut found they accounted for 0.0000059 percent of global carbon emissions in 2018, while the airline industry produced 2.4 percent the same year.

> But the long-term effect is less clear, especially as companies like SpaceX move from hosting 26 launches in a year to 1,000 launches per rocket in a year.

> “I think we can guess that rockets won't be a huge impact on the environment, and they probably won't stand out as a sole source of new problems,” Darin Toohey, professor at the University of Colorado Boulder’s Atmospheric and Ocean Sciences, tells Inverse. “But they will add to the growing list of activities that have negative impacts on the environment.”

One thing being better than a second, worse thing does not automatically make the first thing good.
Very true, I don't disagree that its not 100% pure and 'good', but I think space technology has a very important value in our society to explore, and is _especially_ important in solving problems for humanity down the line. As for Climate, without a healthy space industry, our climate observation tools would be set back decades. The first step to dealing with a problem is to become aware of it.
I guess the point is, maximize value per-launch, ideally as far in the net-negative direction as possible. I know that private companies do this already (it's kind of built in to the market of launch contract awards) but I am not sure private companies are going to be better in terms of climate vs well-funded public civilian space science agencies, because they are also incentivized to maximize the number of launches.
Indirectly, even baker down my street is involved - government agents need to eat, and he provides them with bread.
haha true, all humans depend on food to do their job, so working as a farmer is a catch-all for helping fight climate change
I mean, if they get to mars they'll have to terraform it. And if they figure it out there then they can just do it here right? I thought that was all part of his master plan. Doesn't explain the flamethrowers but I'm sure they play a role too.
Not a joke, I swear.

Work in property insurance/reinsurance. I spent the last 16 years in that world and contemplated climate change nearly the entire time. Insurance not seen as all that sexy, but I think it's one area where climate matters in a very practical way.

Happy to discuss with you if interested.