I absolutely believe it. Even if I manage to do the same things I normally do and avoid eating more, my depressive episodes wreck my physical health. Something about depression causes changes that no amount of healthy living can stop.
And of course every time I see these studies, I wonder just how screwed I’m going to be by the time I’m 40… XD
Keep in mind that loneliness is different from being alone. Loneliness is a state of mind linked to wanting human contact but feeling alone. People can be alone and not feel lonely, or they can have contact with people and still experience feelings of isolation.[1]
I believe that loneliness stems from one's inability to be friends with oneself, to enjoy one's company. This quote by Osho[2] comes to mind:
“The capacity to be alone is the capacity to love. It may look paradoxical to you, but it’s not. It is an existential truth: only those people who are capable of being alone are capable of love, of sharing, of going into the deepest core of another person—without possessing the other, without becoming dependent on the other, without reducing the other to a thing, and without becoming addicted to the other. They allow the other absolute freedom, because they know that if the other leaves, they will be as happy as they are now. Their happiness cannot be taken by the other, because it is not given by the other.”
Loneliness can have multiple sources. I’m a relatively social person who also enjoys his own company. I often feel lonely around people I don’t feel a connection with. It reminds me of growing up being the only “creative” in a family who saw art of any kind as a frivolous pursuit.
This reminds me of the survival reality TV show 'Alone', which is an interesting, if not contrived, experiment into how "being alone" can affect you psychologically, or not, depending on the person.
This is a great point for those worried about the impact on themselves.
Given the structure of the study I wonder whether the potential relationship between extroversion and loneliness as reported was explored. Ie do introverts report loneliness less in general?
In one example of extroverts, a person could be accustomed to interacting with important others socially and loses them. This loss of regular experience of memory recall generated by many social interactions could potentially lead to under practice of memory functions generally. It also might make it more likely they would report loneliness.
Some similar studies exist for removing elderly from their homes and/or purging them of their “unnecessary stuff.” Again here the memory function triggered by their regular visual stimulation of memories associated with their stuff may be sustaining those brain functions.
I think instead of trying to associate bad feelings with bad outcomes we should be asking what combinations of individual tendencies and situations produce those bad feelings, and how might those bad feelings be linked to very real experiential losses that might be sustained relatively easily.
One mitigation might be to record the elderly’s persons friends and/or house/belongings and make them available in VR.
But in this particular case I bet it is the actual state of being alone that is the cause of mental decline, the mechanism being that one is literally not using all the parts of the brain that one developed to socialize with others.
Are you referring to the Cassava Sciences fraud? All of that was related to a specific treatment that a specific researcher was trying to push through FDA trials.
I would consider that an isolated incident, similar to the "vaccines cause autism" researcher who was discredited long ago (and hopefully the Cassava guy will be, too).
I really wonder how much of this is due to loneliness and how much is just a lack of mental and social stimulation. If you're looking at groups of elderly people and seeing stronger effects over 65 you're probably getting a lot of frequently housebound folks who don't often interact with others and may not be doing/seeing/experiencing a lot of new things outside of what comes on TV. Some elderly people may not even be able to do the old things they used to love, or at least not do them as often.
I'd really like to see this sort of result shown in people who are routinely active, engaged in hobbies they enjoy, and surrounded by/interacting with many people but who still report prolonged feelings of loneliness. Plenty of lonely people out there meet that criteria. Busy, surrounded by people, but still feeling loneliness. If there are impacts to memory for them as well it would more strongly suggest it was the loneliness that was the issue and not isolation, boredom, depression, lack of simulation etc.
The active people will also be generally healthier, and sleep better (which is critical to memory formation). This would be a much more interesting study, though I suspect it would have a much less interesting result.
> his would be a much more interesting study, though I suspect it would have a much less interesting result.
That's my suspicion as well, which makes me hope studies like this don't result a bunch of wasted time/money while people go looking to solve the wrong problem. I'm not prone to feelings of loneliness, but my memory has never been great and I'd like to keep what I have for as long as I can.
As I get older I plan to keep learning and engaged in various passions to help keep my mind sharp, and for now at least, I've still got a lot of options, but I'm sure the temptation to not bother doing even the things I enjoy will grow stronger with age.
Arthritis or carpal tunnel will take away the instruments and the video games, eye sight problems could make reading harder, bad joints and mobility problems could make travel and outdoor activities less appealing. At a certain point, I could see hitting a wall where the effort doesn't feel worth it and it gets harder to find things to keep my mind active. Fortunately, that won't (fingers crossed) become an issue for a few decades yet in my case, but it's been in the back of my mind for a while, and I'll be looking out for signs of that struggle in my parent's lives as they age.
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[ 10.3 ms ] story [ 46.0 ms ] threadAnd of course every time I see these studies, I wonder just how screwed I’m going to be by the time I’m 40… XD
I invested significant energy into being minimal and happy by myself. it varies with some success but it is a very personal journey.
I believe that loneliness stems from one's inability to be friends with oneself, to enjoy one's company. This quote by Osho[2] comes to mind:
“The capacity to be alone is the capacity to love. It may look paradoxical to you, but it’s not. It is an existential truth: only those people who are capable of being alone are capable of love, of sharing, of going into the deepest core of another person—without possessing the other, without becoming dependent on the other, without reducing the other to a thing, and without becoming addicted to the other. They allow the other absolute freedom, because they know that if the other leaves, they will be as happy as they are now. Their happiness cannot be taken by the other, because it is not given by the other.”
[1] Loneliness: Causes and Health Consequences — https://www.verywellmind.com/loneliness-causes-effects-and-t...
[2] The Capacity To Be Alone — http://www.arrowpsychotherapy.com/blog/capacitytobealone
This reminds me of the survival reality TV show 'Alone', which is an interesting, if not contrived, experiment into how "being alone" can affect you psychologically, or not, depending on the person.
https://www.history.com/shows/alone
Given the structure of the study I wonder whether the potential relationship between extroversion and loneliness as reported was explored. Ie do introverts report loneliness less in general?
In one example of extroverts, a person could be accustomed to interacting with important others socially and loses them. This loss of regular experience of memory recall generated by many social interactions could potentially lead to under practice of memory functions generally. It also might make it more likely they would report loneliness.
Some similar studies exist for removing elderly from their homes and/or purging them of their “unnecessary stuff.” Again here the memory function triggered by their regular visual stimulation of memories associated with their stuff may be sustaining those brain functions.
I think instead of trying to associate bad feelings with bad outcomes we should be asking what combinations of individual tendencies and situations produce those bad feelings, and how might those bad feelings be linked to very real experiential losses that might be sustained relatively easily.
One mitigation might be to record the elderly’s persons friends and/or house/belongings and make them available in VR.
I suspect it's the presence of people who you feel have "got your back" rather than the mere presence of people.
Having 15 friends who do not genuinely care for you would therefore probably be worse than having just 2 who do.
I would consider that an isolated incident, similar to the "vaccines cause autism" researcher who was discredited long ago (and hopefully the Cassava guy will be, too).
I wouldn't be surprised if early stages of cognitive dysfunction or health issues make it harder to keep/see friends.
I'd really like to see this sort of result shown in people who are routinely active, engaged in hobbies they enjoy, and surrounded by/interacting with many people but who still report prolonged feelings of loneliness. Plenty of lonely people out there meet that criteria. Busy, surrounded by people, but still feeling loneliness. If there are impacts to memory for them as well it would more strongly suggest it was the loneliness that was the issue and not isolation, boredom, depression, lack of simulation etc.
That's my suspicion as well, which makes me hope studies like this don't result a bunch of wasted time/money while people go looking to solve the wrong problem. I'm not prone to feelings of loneliness, but my memory has never been great and I'd like to keep what I have for as long as I can.
As I get older I plan to keep learning and engaged in various passions to help keep my mind sharp, and for now at least, I've still got a lot of options, but I'm sure the temptation to not bother doing even the things I enjoy will grow stronger with age.
Arthritis or carpal tunnel will take away the instruments and the video games, eye sight problems could make reading harder, bad joints and mobility problems could make travel and outdoor activities less appealing. At a certain point, I could see hitting a wall where the effort doesn't feel worth it and it gets harder to find things to keep my mind active. Fortunately, that won't (fingers crossed) become an issue for a few decades yet in my case, but it's been in the back of my mind for a while, and I'll be looking out for signs of that struggle in my parent's lives as they age.