What immediately came to my mind was "If you feel you are not properly sedated, call 348-844 immediately. Failure to do so may result in prosecution for criminal drug evasion"
Definitely possible, but hang out in Shinagawa Station, on a Wednesday night, between 2200 and 2300. It's fairly common to see men in ten-thousand-dollar suits, kneewalking drunk.
That was not necessary. I have nothing but respect for the people in our team.
I worked with them for decades, and they were (still are) some of the finest engineers and scientists in the world (not hyperbole). They, in turn, had a great deal of respect for us.
It upset me to see the level of drinking, because I am quite aware of the toll it takes. These were my friends.
well, my brilliant friend went to Japan while working at Apple, made lots of money, pounded alcohol, and came back to mature as an American loner alcoholic. So its all true - is truth necessary ? more can be said but nothing will be solved here
thank you - I am upset about my ex-friend; I myself have been to both urban and coastal Japan on tour; I am concerned for the Japanese people, and for USA.. both ways are turning sour in modernity; Alcohol is not "the solution" and as noted here, a giant serious problem for many.
I think most are not actually alcoholics. They drink a lot, but it doesn't take over their lives, in the way that alcoholism does.
They are back in the office at 8AM, the next day, and it's as if nothing happened.
But a lot of my friends did suffer some serious health problems, and I suspect that drinking played a part. Japan has a pretty good healthcare system.
The stress level of a salaryman is pretty much "off the charts." The management practices are brutal, and the days long. On Saturdays, they work "half days," which means they work for six hours.
The company I worked for was a pretty "high achievement" company. I suspect the pressure was higher for our folks, than at other companies.
Can public transport be a cause though? I’ve definitely didn’t hold back my drinking as much when traveling somewhere I didn’t have to rely on driving.
In my case, the meals were long and mixed with alcohol. It was like a "tasting menu" type of restaurant, with the booze proof increasing, as the evening wore on.
Lunches are a different matter entirely. They would wolf down their meal in ten minutes. Not a drop of alcohol, until the day was done. Lots of energy drinks; even before the US had them.
I also drink a lot of alcohol with my meals, but I find that often Japanese people who eat with me refrain from ordering alcohol because the next day is a work day - so Fridays will be a day that everyone orders alcohol for example. I have also been in the accompany of plenty of Japanese who get "Asian flush" and a worried about any effect on their health.
In comparison Koreans will nearly always drink alcohol on a daily basis and to a stronger concentration than what Japanese drink - even the Koreans in Japan.
I think this is more age related. I am actually in Japan currently and I can attest that no-one I know will drink daily like in Europe, possibly weekly but the weekly drinks tend to be far stronger and bigger. A European will have a couple of glasses of wine a day and go clubbing every week, Japanese on the other hand tend to only drink occasionally, attend one of the work parties at work with the older guys who don't want to go home - the idea of the older men who don't want to return to annoying homes is common even in Europe
Both Japanese men and women drink more alcohol than their American counterparts. Average consumption of pure alcohol in liters per year among all adults aged 15+ in 2019:
Japan Men 15.58, Women 4.93
United States Men 15.44, Women 4.69
It's tough to compare averages across populations when the people who don't drink really don't drink. Something that takes into account number of drinks per drinking occasion might paint a different picture.
This article might be alluding to an age difference since I am in my early twenties, but I can attest that I am a weak drinker but I drink more alcohol than virtually every Japanese person I have known - only Westerners and a number of Asians such as Koreans can drink in the same pattern as me. If you are an older person then it is common everywhere for married men to drown their sorrows in bars and pubs etc...
This is not true. If you go to Japan you will see an army of extremely drunk salarymen every night, and statistically Japanese people do consume a ton of alcohol compared to most western countries.
As someone who is living in Japan, I would say that Japanese drank less than Europeans for sure. Europeans will drink a couple of glasses of wine every night for example.
I only visited Tokyo. That's like saying I know the US, because I've visited New York. I did go, every year (sometimes multiple times per year), for over twenty years.
I also live in Japan currently and I find the drinking culture to be weak. I've met a few people who drink daily but they tend to come from other parts of Asia (Korea etc...) where drinking is very common. This article might be alluding to a age difference considering I am in my early twenties.
> Europeans will drink a couple of glasses of wine every night for example.
I'm from a wine-producing region in Europe and I would not consider this normal in any way. Not even my parents drink that much, and they have a dedicated wine cellar.
While this source seems to have valid numbers for wine consumption (based on the 2016 numbers available on Wikipedia), but the jump from liters per year to glasses per day is not coherent at all.
60 liters per year =
1.15 liters per week =
164ml per day
That is a not 2-3 glasses nor the "couple of glasses" I was calling out - that is what I would describe as "one generous glass" or ~1.3 UK standard wine glasses of 125ml.
They have a nationalized (Sometimes derided as "Socialist.") healthcare system; often assisted by clinics run by corporations. My company had a full urgent care medical clinic at the main factory.
They also tend to retire at sixty (so they are dealing with an aging population. Part of the reason that young people not drinking so much, is a problem, is because there are a lot fewer of them).
As an English person, I can assure you that not many people have a full English breakfast regularly. Cereal, porridge, toast, yogurt, or "nothing at all" are far more popular.
Outright bans have historically never worked to discourage drug use. They only create a very rich criminal class that thrives in selling illegal products.
The only outcome of such bans is an unregulated and untaxed black market. See the outcome of the "war on drugs" as an example. If people want to drink alcohol they will find ways to do so. The best governments can do is ensure quality control and tax it (and fund public education and health via those taxes).
The main reason marijuana has political oomph to get decriminalized is that it becomes a revenue source. Once a couple states started minting money in decriminalization, the other states hopped on board with great enthusiasm.
It comes down to a cost / revenue perspective. Alcohol and many drugs are profit centers.
Cigarettes? Not a profit center in the end, so heavy discouragement. Well, probably. I think vaping will become a lot more accepted by governments if it is true that nicotine itself isn't where the health problems are.
This is bordering on parody. A government so beholden to the alcohol lobby that it is using your own tax dollars to feed you propaganda and make you spend your money to destroy your health. And all of it so that a handful of people can get wealthier.
The government of Japan is seriously dated. Everyone who makes decisions is 60+.
It’s only recently there’s been talk of banning weird practices like the mandatory hair dying and underwear colour enforcement for female students in schools.
I feel like in other modern democratic government in the world the government would step in and sort this out.
Edit: Love to know the reason for the down vote here. I don't know of a single modern democratic country on earth where it would be ok for people to be forced to have their hair died black. Correct me please.
Lots of supposedly modern countries can have very restrictive uniform and hairstyle rules. In the US you are unlikely to be asked to dye your hair, but may be made to straighten it.
I don't know why you were downvoted but your comment is as if I wrote "The U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. I feel like in other modern democratic governments in the world the government would step in and sort out the incarceration rate."
It raises the question why you think the government would stop doing "Bad thing" if that's what the voters want.
Every time I see this, my first question is "How do people know the color of a schoolgirl's underwear?" Then I remember the key point of their dress code - a short skirt.
Not sure if you're joking or being sarcastic or projecting or what, but it's not actually true. Often girls where long skirts, the teachers would check the underwear color.
"Seira fuku (セーラー服 ) is a common style of uniform worn by female middle school students, occasionally by high school students, and even rarely by elementary school students. It was first introduced as a school uniform in 1920 in Heian Jogakuin (平安女学院) and 1921 by the principal of Fukuoka Jo Gakuin University (福岡女学院), Elizabeth Lee. "
Knee length - a common length - is relatively short. It's no mini skirt, but I regularly see men's swim trunks that would cover more leg than those skirts do.
Fun fact: the average age of US representatives is about 58 and Senators about 63. Information I’m seeing puts Japan’s Kokkai at only about 56 in comparison. I don’t think you can explain this with age.
You might be right, statistically speaking, but Japanese culture is extremely hierarchical. Those who are actually making decisions and setting policy I'm certain would be older than in the USA.
I know Japanese who are born in Japan with mixed race parents and have very fair hair. Common Japan isn't a freaking isolated island anymore, it's not 1830.
Some Japanese are born with brown hair, it's rare but it happens, they'd be forced to die their hair black.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, this is exactly right. I’ve been living in Japan for more than 20 years and this story is absolutely illustrative of everything that is wrong with late-stage, silver democracies. The burden, of course, falls disproportionately on young people. Don’t know how they’re holding it together tbh.
Agreed, but I don't think this is limited to capitalism. Really almost all forms of government.
In any system there will both people who are trying to take advantage of the rules in place. To combat that, you add bureaucracy to attempt to put checks and balances along the way. Some groups will still succeed and get government sponsored rules that may not necessarily be in the public's best interest.
Corporate greed is an pretty strong incentive for abuse and lobbing of a government system. But greed exists even without private corporations.
Not propaganda but there are tax credits which directly cost tax payer money around gun ownership. Buy a gun safe, you get a full tax credit over the purchase. No one is giving me a tax credit or even deduction for a wine cellar.
Could it also be due to the fact that they have an aging population crisis and young people uninterested in dating? What better way to get young people to procreate then to get them drunk?
> What better way to get young people to procreate
Give them better employment opportunities, better work culture, ways to save money, home ownership... But nah, the problem is surely that they aren't drinking enough.
Given the importance of hemp in Japan historically, I also think this would be a great move. An example of Japan’s former reverence of cannabis: The sumo uniform is made of hemp.
I don't think it is. In public they must wear only cotton kimonos, and in competition they wear silk belts. Maybe the training belts? They look to be of some heavy, stiff material. I'd thought they were just thick cotton too.
Hemp is for certain used to make decorative rope for shrines and temples, and it looks like many どひょう (sumo fighting rings) have some hemp rope involved in them. The sumo belts look to be made of hemp to me.
There are all types of weird laws about hemp farmers having to be careful not to breathe in the smoke when burning off during autumn harvests etc :)
Sadly, that’ll never happen. Weed consumption is treated as a moral failing of epic proportion here, on par with violent crime. CBD products are treated differently because the right people can’t make money off of something that will grow in your yard.
Not always, sometimes the justification is just an honest "we need money" - e.g. the German tax on sparkling wine was put in place to pay for the battleships of the navy.
The Imperial German Navy of Wilhelm II. In 1902. Still in place. :D
Well, that doesn't sound surprising. I'm glad that my country have gotten past soviet-era drinking. Nowadays the issues are just about the whisper marketing on social media which I hope soon will be regulated.
> "We need to boost Japan's economy! What should we do?'
> -"Well we could let tourists in to take advantage of the weak yen, bringing in billions of dollars of revenue & saving businesses around the country?!"
> "NAH! Let's encourage younger generations to become alcoholics instead!"
I moved from the UK to Japan and find a few things interesting about alcohol and drinking culture.
* Many places do "all you can drink deals" sure, students and ying people use this to go crazy but I feel like older people are sensible and just treat it as a way to not worry about prices/splitting the bill.
* Alcohol is very available and very cheap. A bottle of coca cola and a 9% lemon drink are more or less the same price in a convenience store. Spirits and sake are cheap.
* Drunkenness is fairly common but violences is rare. I often see people falling over in the street making merry, or vomiting in the street in less merry moments. I've almost never seen a fist fight, which would be sadly common in the UK.
I've recently started my path towards sobriety (5 months next week) and I feel significantly healthier than I have ever felt over the past few decades of drinking.
I feel empathy for similar folks in my position in Japan: it's already difficult enough with liquor ads almost everywhere (e.g. I see them all the time in YouTube, and I don't have recourse to tell them that I find that whole category of ads inappropriate for someone trying to fight temptation like that) but I can't imagine how difficult it would be if the _government_ is pressing you to drink more.
Putting aside the ethics of this at the moment which other comments cover, I wonder if at this stage the lower sales have anything to do with the continued restrictions on tourism, or if tourists make up a negligible amount of alcohol sales.
I looked it up the other day, and you can technically visit Japan as a tourist, but you have to book a guided package tour through an agency. It seemed like the guide has to be with you everyday.
It wasn't like that when I visited a few years ago. We just booked a hotel, got on a plane and went there. I can't find this requirement on their COVID page either. Do you have a link?
For entry measures, countries of entry are divided into 3 categories (blue, yellow and red). The entry modalities and visa regulations are then based on the colours.
Blue = Tourism allowed with visa
Yellow/ Red = Tourism not allowed
The categories are reviewed at regular intervals and countries can be reassigned to a different category in the event of a new review, which means that relaxations can be withdrawn again if necessary.
Germany is currently Category Blue.
NOTE!
Visas can only be applied for if a travel agency/travel company based in Japan acts as guarantor and registers with the Japanese Ministry of Health (see below).
At the moment, an application is only possible for package/group tours organized by a travel agency based in Japan as well as with continuous group guidance on site without individually plannable days as well as only with a locally resident tour guide. Individual tourism is not possible.
> In a 2021 report, the tax agency said duties on liquor had been a major revenue source for the government for centuries, but had declined in recent decades. Japan received 1.1 trillion yen ($8.1 billion) in alcohol tax in 2021 -- 1.7% of overall tax revenue, compared to 3% in 2011, and 5% in 1980
That's a big % of their economy. However some googling reveals that [1]
> Summing up the costs of each component of the overall cost to society, the total cost of alcohol abuse was estimated at 6,637.5 yen billion, representing 1.9% of the gross national product in 1987, which was three times that of the national revenue from taxes on alcohol beverages.
So the government refuses to let tourists in because COVID is dangerous, but has no problems slowly poisoning own citizens for that juicy alcohol tax money.
138 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 179 ms ] threadI understand bars, taxes, and the alcohol industry, feeling pain, but I don't feel it's very good for people to drink like they do.
I would sometimes spend two weeks, over there, and every weeknight was like that.
Thank Cthulhu for public transport.
I worked with them for decades, and they were (still are) some of the finest engineers and scientists in the world (not hyperbole). They, in turn, had a great deal of respect for us.
It upset me to see the level of drinking, because I am quite aware of the toll it takes. These were my friends.
I don't drink. I used up my quota at eighteen, so I may have some idea what he went through.
They are back in the office at 8AM, the next day, and it's as if nothing happened.
But a lot of my friends did suffer some serious health problems, and I suspect that drinking played a part. Japan has a pretty good healthcare system.
The stress level of a salaryman is pretty much "off the charts." The management practices are brutal, and the days long. On Saturdays, they work "half days," which means they work for six hours.
The company I worked for was a pretty "high achievement" company. I suspect the pressure was higher for our folks, than at other companies.
Yeah, how? That's what I want to know. Asking for a friend :p
Lunches are a different matter entirely. They would wolf down their meal in ten minutes. Not a drop of alcohol, until the day was done. Lots of energy drinks; even before the US had them.
Aaahnold made some money, doing Japanese energy drink ads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRLe826lyao
In comparison Koreans will nearly always drink alcohol on a daily basis and to a stronger concentration than what Japanese drink - even the Koreans in Japan.
Tokyo is Type A++. Seriously high energy.
I'm from a wine-producing region in Europe and I would not consider this normal in any way. Not even my parents drink that much, and they have a dedicated wine cellar.
60 liters per year =
1.15 liters per week =
164ml per day
That is a not 2-3 glasses nor the "couple of glasses" I was calling out - that is what I would describe as "one generous glass" or ~1.3 UK standard wine glasses of 125ml.
They also tend to retire at sixty (so they are dealing with an aging population. Part of the reason that young people not drinking so much, is a problem, is because there are a lot fewer of them).
Me mum was English, and I loved me fried bread...
A prototypical Japanese breakfast is rice with pickles and smoked fish; maybe some Natto (never warmed to that).
The main reason marijuana has political oomph to get decriminalized is that it becomes a revenue source. Once a couple states started minting money in decriminalization, the other states hopped on board with great enthusiasm.
It comes down to a cost / revenue perspective. Alcohol and many drugs are profit centers.
Cigarettes? Not a profit center in the end, so heavy discouragement. Well, probably. I think vaping will become a lot more accepted by governments if it is true that nicotine itself isn't where the health problems are.
It’s only recently there’s been talk of banning weird practices like the mandatory hair dying and underwear colour enforcement for female students in schools.
Edit: Love to know the reason for the down vote here. I don't know of a single modern democratic country on earth where it would be ok for people to be forced to have their hair died black. Correct me please.
It raises the question why you think the government would stop doing "Bad thing" if that's what the voters want.
Fuuuuuu
That's... not better. Not even remotely better.
> it's actually not true.
"Seira fuku (セーラー服 ) is a common style of uniform worn by female middle school students, occasionally by high school students, and even rarely by elementary school students. It was first introduced as a school uniform in 1920 in Heian Jogakuin (平安女学院) and 1921 by the principal of Fukuoka Jo Gakuin University (福岡女学院), Elizabeth Lee. "
Knee length - a common length - is relatively short. It's no mini skirt, but I regularly see men's swim trunks that would cover more leg than those skirts do.
That's America too and it's working great??? America in 2022 is super mega fun place #1. I don't get your point.
Is that being... controlled?
WTF.
Relevant: https://japantoday.com/category/national/tokyo-public-school...
So, if you are a school child with brown, red, or blond hair, it is likely you will be forced to dye your hair black.
Some Japanese are born with brown hair, it's rare but it happens, they'd be forced to die their hair black.
In any system there will both people who are trying to take advantage of the rules in place. To combat that, you add bureaucracy to attempt to put checks and balances along the way. Some groups will still succeed and get government sponsored rules that may not necessarily be in the public's best interest.
Corporate greed is an pretty strong incentive for abuse and lobbing of a government system. But greed exists even without private corporations.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%87%AA%E6%B0%91%E5%85%9A%E3...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32495883
Give them better employment opportunities, better work culture, ways to save money, home ownership... But nah, the problem is surely that they aren't drinking enough.
Young people want to smoke weed. CBD is a huge growing market in Japan.
That this isn’t common knowledge is more anecdata of what I am talking bout.
[0] https://tachiai.org/2017/01/25/preparing-the-rope/amp/
There are all types of weird laws about hemp farmers having to be careful not to breathe in the smoke when burning off during autumn harvests etc :)
The Imperial German Navy of Wilhelm II. In 1902. Still in place. :D
> "We need to boost Japan's economy! What should we do?'
> -"Well we could let tourists in to take advantage of the weak yen, bringing in billions of dollars of revenue & saving businesses around the country?!"
> "NAH! Let's encourage younger generations to become alcoholics instead!"
>
I think that sums it up pretty well.
* Many places do "all you can drink deals" sure, students and ying people use this to go crazy but I feel like older people are sensible and just treat it as a way to not worry about prices/splitting the bill.
* Alcohol is very available and very cheap. A bottle of coca cola and a 9% lemon drink are more or less the same price in a convenience store. Spirits and sake are cheap.
* Drunkenness is fairly common but violences is rare. I often see people falling over in the street making merry, or vomiting in the street in less merry moments. I've almost never seen a fist fight, which would be sadly common in the UK.
I've recently started my path towards sobriety (5 months next week) and I feel significantly healthier than I have ever felt over the past few decades of drinking.
I feel empathy for similar folks in my position in Japan: it's already difficult enough with liquor ads almost everywhere (e.g. I see them all the time in YouTube, and I don't have recourse to tell them that I find that whole category of ads inappropriate for someone trying to fight temptation like that) but I can't imagine how difficult it would be if the _government_ is pressing you to drink more.
I looked it up the other day, and you can technically visit Japan as a tourist, but you have to book a guided package tour through an agency. It seemed like the guide has to be with you everyday.
General notice:
For entry measures, countries of entry are divided into 3 categories (blue, yellow and red). The entry modalities and visa regulations are then based on the colours.
Blue = Tourism allowed with visa
Yellow/ Red = Tourism not allowed
The categories are reviewed at regular intervals and countries can be reassigned to a different category in the event of a new review, which means that relaxations can be withdrawn again if necessary.
Germany is currently Category Blue.
NOTE!
Visas can only be applied for if a travel agency/travel company based in Japan acts as guarantor and registers with the Japanese Ministry of Health (see below).
At the moment, an application is only possible for package/group tours organized by a travel agency based in Japan as well as with continuous group guidance on site without individually plannable days as well as only with a locally resident tour guide. Individual tourism is not possible.
That's a big % of their economy. However some googling reveals that [1]
> Summing up the costs of each component of the overall cost to society, the total cost of alcohol abuse was estimated at 6,637.5 yen billion, representing 1.9% of the gross national product in 1987, which was three times that of the national revenue from taxes on alcohol beverages.
Which means this move may do more harm than good.
[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8412152/