Tell HN: Stop sending unsolicited emails to developers GitHub email

106 points by msoad ↗ HN
Number of emails I'm getting for developer related products and surveys based on my Github email is increasing.

Those emails never go to the "Promotions" or "Updates" tab of Gmail and make it directly into my Primary inbox

If you're working on developer related products and using Github emails as a marketing target you should stop! Those emails are not meant for marketing.

Edit: Today I learned you can set your email to a noreply email provided by Github[1][2]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32553451

[2] https://docs.github.com/en/account-and-profile/setting-up-and-managing-your-personal-account-on-github/managing-email-preferences/setting-your-commit-email-address#setting-your-commit-email-address-on-github

81 comments

[ 1.9 ms ] story [ 167 ms ] thread
Totally agree, I did not consent to receive marketing for your start-up. My email is on GitHub for serious inquiries or security concerns regarding my projects.

I've recently starting calling out such companies. A couple of cases:

- Diffgram - Questioned how they received my marketing consent on their community slack chat, along with another user, got banned. - Buildable - Called out the founder on Twitter and was blocked in response.

While calling out seems just to result in being silenced/blocked, my hope is that it puts pressure on those companies, and others observing, to not market in this way.

Why would they block you when they are the ones that contacted you?
If you block people on twitter, they cannot interact with your tweets anymore and that effectively makes it impossible to call them out to other people reading those tweets. It reduces reach for those who are blocked.
I'm going to call out bad actors here too:

* GenDocu - Jared Madden. Something gRPC related

* Steven Zhou - PhD student in organizational psychology at George Mason University

* Elliott Ash and Swagatam Sinha -- Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH Zurich)

I get dozens of these open source research emails a year, and they annoy me greatly.

But I'll point out: these are graduate or PhD students, traversing language and etiquette boundaries, under pressure from their advisors to acquire the data they need to publish (or perish). I wish they wouldn't do it (and that their advisors would nudge them away from pointless surveys), but naming individual students isn't really calling out the bad actors here.

Wait why? Do the students not have agency?
They have some agency, but they're not independent from their academic advisors.

Given the volume of emails I get (and their disproportionate sources from a handful of the same universities) over 5+ years, I'm inclined to believe that there are a handful of advisors that push their students to do these surveys as "easy" research.

Students and researchers reaching out to collect data is very different from marketers trying to sell you something. These folks aren't marketing, they are trying to learn something about the world and then share that with the rest of us. We would probably benefit in the long run by participating, but I know we all have limited time and survey research has its flaws. Still I wouldn't call them bad actors, they're acting in the public interest (building humanity's knowledge base). Just ignore them if you don't have time to participate.

If they're trying to build a startup and sell you that startup that's different, but you don't seem to be listing startups you seem to be listing researchers.

If you want to talk about tech sales people with no respect for boundaries desperately willing to do anything to sell you something you don't want and don't need - then yeah, lets rage against that. I've been in a role where I became a target for tech SDRs and it was absolutely miserable. My phone wound up in a sales database and I came very close to changing my phone number (a number I've had for almost 20 years). It stopped when I left that role - thankfully. The last year I was in it, in particular, once they got a hold of my phone number was miserable. Multiple sales calls a day, my work inbox snowed under, often 3+ outreaches followed by a phone call. One SDR emailed me 6 times, called me, I chewed him out on the phone and then he emailed me again. I blocked his email and then instituted a policy of silently marking any 3rd outreach as spam. I wish phones had a similar feature.

Just wait until they figure out that they can email you calendar invites and that your email integration with your calendar will mostly likely automatically add their spam meetings to your already busy schedule.

It's infuriating.

Sometimes you end up thinking you're double booked randomly and have a momentary panic while figuring it out. Other times it prevents legitimate people from scheduling time with you because your calendar has a bunch of slots blocked off by spam meetings.

This is why I've relatively stubbornly refused to use integrated email/calendar things. I know some can't avoid it in their workplace, but I've been able to even though other use it, and this strikes me as a healthy bit of "disruption."
Ok, what’s even the point of a “spam meeting?”

Are they just scheduling a random call so they can lecture you about their product for 30 minutes?

It's to have your eyeballs looking at their advertisement/spam. Your calendar events probably are set to notify you as well, so it gets extra attention from you.
I have no idea. I assume it's a bit of a "dog catches car" situation.
> you should stop! Those emails are not meant for marketing.

The vast majority of email addresses are not meant for marketing. Marketing people could not give a toss about this fact, and most of them are impervious to calls for empathy so pleading them to stop them going whatever they want is a waste of breath/typing.

To add: they do this because it works. Cold-calls are how salespeople make the big $$$.
Do they? A the big money is B2B and cold calling seems super ineffective because I get 10-20 people a week pitching me stuff none of them realizing I am a low level IC that has 2 levels between me and anyone that can approve anything, and those people sure as hell ain't listening to me, otherwise we wouldn't have migrated our HR system to Oracle cloud (and had all our vacation time suddenly disappear).

The only time a cold caller ever got anywhere was when I worked with him in a previous capacity and he reached out to me as the salesperson for a product we were already evaluating and considering, and at that point he really just came in to do a demo.

How do you addict a rat to pushing a button? Random rewards.

How do you addict a salescritter to spamming and cold-calling?

To move the expected value of cold calls closer to negative, isn't every person who is annoyed by a cold call morally obligated to give the caller the maximum amount of abuse?
And people wonder why I have a pathological disdain for marketing folks. They focus on style over substance, flash over function, and to them nothing shouldn't be done to chase the almighty dollar.

Sure there are good honest reputable people out there, but every time I find out someone works in marketing I always lose a little bit of respect for them. And do not give me that bull crap about how "well we just help inform consumers of their choices and raise awarness." That may have been true 50 years ago when the whole family would gather around a radio to tune in to the lone ranger, but these days I probably have an email in my inbox for a company that has the flipping cure for cancer, but I will never know because marketing parasites grab every channel of communication they can find and saturate to the point of uselessness and we end right back up where we were before where the only information I trust is information from people I personally know. So congratulations marketing you've managed to regress society back to the point where my best bet for finding something to solve my problem is consulting the village elder.

Engineers get blasted all the time for building crap that is bad, just check out the other thread on spyware that was posted, how about we start holding these marketing con artists accountable for the sh* they sell then.

While I generally agree, I think this is a late-stage capitalism problem more than a marketing problem. The fact that there are ads on every square inch, but jail time for graffiti artists, is a major clue that this is a bigger problem.

What I'm trying to say is, marketing in its current incarnation is a symptom, not a cause.

It's not a coincidence that we outsource all manufacturing to the cheapest bidder. Deforestation, acid oceans, wars for oil, kayfabe geopolitics, the anthropocene extinction, and all the other shit you'll never hear about on corporate news - they have the same root cause, which I think can be called late-stage capitalism.

There is a difference between ads and graffiti. One is voluntary and the other is not.

Also, in places like California no one is going to jail for graffiti.

> Deforestation, acid oceans, wars for oil, kayfabe geopolitics, the anthropocene extinction, and all the other shit you'll never hear about on corporate news - they have the same root cause, which I think can be called late-stage capitalism

Thats an assertion you believe in. China has roughly 1/6th the global population, is communist controlled and has the same issues.

Imagine believing china isn't a capitalist country. I know their party is called "communist" but you can slap any label on anything. Next you'll probably try to tell me north korea is democratic because it's in the name. Or McD's all-beef patties are 100% dead cow.
> Imagine believing china isn't a capitalist country

Funnily, your sibling comment is praising China for being communist. So, what is China? Is it communist when good and capitalist when bad?

The reality is communism always in life ALWAYS devolves to corrupt capitalism or a dictatorship and yet advocates and fans believe irrationally that next time will be different due to "reasons."

The reality is, so does capitalism. So does anything in pure forms. The reality is neither socialism nor capitalism are valid on their own, you need both. Observing any given real problem that either process has, and concluding the solution is simply the opposite, is stupid.

Corrupt capitalism is simply capitalism without anything else to dilute and aim it.

Are you really saying a different comment written by a different person is something i should defend?

In that case: i once read (in a different thread on a different site) that china has an emperor. Checkmate.

> There is a difference between ads and graffiti. One is voluntary and the other is not.

To the one person who legally owns that space, there is that difference.

To literally everybody else, the difference is that one is trying to make me buy some stupid shit, and one is trying to capture my interest by artistic merit.

> Thats an assertion you believe in. China has roughly 1/6th the global population, is communist controlled and has the same issues.

Oh? How many wars did China start for oil in the past 20 years? Did they spend 6 trillion dollars on interest alone for illegal "wars on terror"? Are they trending down, or up? How's their manufacturing base? ... And who exactly are they exporting all their cheap goods to, in a very capitalist manner?

And - please digest this fully - just because our late-stage capitalism has a hand in the issues I named, for us, that doesn't mean that I support China, or communism. That's so clearly a false dichotomy. I think it's an example of an artificial talking point, created by cynical think-tanks and spread by corporate media.

> To the one person who legally owns that space, there is that difference.

Thats all that matters. Art is relative. Nobody is forcing you at gunpoint to buy stuff.

> Oh? How many wars did China start for oil in the past 20 years?

20 is an arbitrary number. Look at Tibet, Indo-China wars, Uyghur suppression. I think we should revisit that statement when China acquires a blue water navy.

> that doesn't mean that I support China, or communism

No one said that. If you say only X is responsible for Y, then you should then explain why Z (where, X!=Z) is also causing Y.

X=capitalism

Y=horrors, real and imagined

Z=communism

At this stage the word capatilism seems to be more a label to slap on something on does not like than a word that has meaning.

Similar phrases include socialist, fascist, nazi, communist, racist, sjw, or pretty much anything else. Labels are designed to try and short circuit rational thought, in favor of emotion provoked by association.

Bad marketing is bad. Good marketing you don't even necessarily perceive as marketing. This website is marketing for Y Combinator.
It's not that they lack empathy. They're well aware of how annoying unsolicited marketing is. They just don't care.
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Try telling a marketer that your publically available email is not for marketing... You should have a spam email account set up for any public email addresses.
The git email field exists for a reason. It is supposed to be useful.
Make sure to report these as spam even if you unsubscribe.
This is probably the best thing you can do if they're using third party "hosted" sending infrastructure - the host will carefully monitor each tenant's spam rate, and terminate relationships with customers that have a high number of spam reports (as it harms their deliverability as a provider).

It's not ideal, but it should start to impact their ability or willingness to send out cold unsolicited sales messages.

And for those that have a Github presence, to Github as well.
I do these for every site. If I make an account somewhere, and I'm sure I unchecked email promotions and still get an email — you get reported as spam.
I don't list an email in my GitHub profile, but based on some emails I've gotten, I can tell they have mined it from the commit log. That's why I recommend using an email address just for GitHub/LinkedIn and keeping a more private one for other services (e.g. health-related).
I've also experienced this, which is why my Git configs all use my noreply GitHub email address now. Commits written with this email address are properly linked to your GitHub account on the website, but anyone who attempts to email it goes to dev null.

I understand someone might want to contact me, so I have alternative contact instructions on my GitHub profile, but no one has ever done so.

Does it make sense to use the no-reply alias at this point (after having contributed commits with your other address)?
Why should unrelated third parties be concerned that you found a bug in Gmail? They'll say that's Google's problem to fix.

I don't like email marketing either, but when on the public internet you kind of accept existing in public. You already use a (buggy) solution to navigate around your dislike in acceptance of what being in public entails.

Perhaps moving your patronage to a vendor more concerned about producing quality, stable, and long lasting software is in order?

Existing in public does not entitle someone to be able to solicit you.
But it happens and nothing will stop it. The concerned party already recognizes that by virtue of using tools to push them away. That tool being buggy is the problem here.
Regulation would help punish the variations of this that aren't already illegal spam industries. People are already taking it upon themselves to take spam texters to small-claims court, due to texting regulations.
That's all well and good, but the specific request was for marketers to stop emailing, by way of GitHub, him and other developers using Gmail because Gmail has a bug that Google seemingly has no interest in fixing.

Per the de facto weak car analogy, this is like asking the guy on the sidewalk flipping a business sign around in a creative fashion to go back inside because his Ford has known issue with the breaks, with no present fix, that may cause him to intersect with the guy on the sidewalk.

Perhaps the law should take sidewalk sign flippers off the street. Perhaps one should take the sign flipper to small claims court should they crash into him when the breaks do fail. But that's beyond the topic at hand.

my original comment wasn't addressing the topic at hand, but solicitation as a concept
I know, but I was calling out that the original topic was fine. There was no need to change it.

You could have always started a new thread if you had a new topic to discuss. Why hijack an unrelated discussion where nobody cares about your pet subject?

because I disagree with this statement:

> but when on the public internet you kind of accept existing in public

I do not accept this

People here are going to hate me but there is a "right" way to do this if you're a startup. Have a cool dev tool that solves someone's problem? People actually want their problems to be solved.

But DON'T blind pitch them via their github email. This is spam.

However, you CAN try to start a conversation with someone and learn about the problems they face. "I saw your email in a commit about X, I am working on Y, want to learn more. Can I ask you [insert specific, targeted and thoughtful question]?" If you have a conversation like a real human, and they actually have the problem you are solving, then it's appropriate to mention your tool.

It turns out if you're actually solving someone's problem, they want to talk to you.

Maybe it's just me, but I have an almost visceral negative reaction to being cold emailed by a company or salesperson, even if it's something I might find useful or solves a problem for me. This doesn't happen with individuals (I like receiving emails from new people!); but I any amount of "business" context (i.e., sensing profit as an ulterior motive) makes me not want to engage at all.
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If someone sends me an email about a product without any prior contact, I immediately blacklist that product; it's got to be pretty amazing and unique to make it off that blacklist. Space in my email inbox is space in my brain, and that's precious to me.
I had some asshole from DataDog not only do that, but also fucking call me unsolicited in the middle of the goddamn workday.

Non-response is a fucking response. Is that data that DataDog doesn't have? Because DataDog seems to think it's fine to harass people relentlessly and call their personal cell phones.

Why would a company like DataDog act like such an asshole to someone they want money from?

> Why would a company like DataDog act like such an asshole to someone they want money from?

Because it's a numbers game. These companies scale their cost base and need to make up the difference in more sales. From the sales-person point-of-view, it seems reasonable to reach out to someone and ask if they need X/Y/Z but, of course, it is only reasonable when you don't have 100 other people doing the same thing every day.

As others have said, actually sometimes I am looking for X and someone happens to cold call and offer it so I buy it (not me, but some people do). So it works. I do think that there should be some way of opting out though like using the UK's TPS system.

I'm sorry, that wasn't a real question. I just wanted to reiterate the name of the company, Data Dog, and emphasize that I think that the company, Data Dog, are assholes. Because they think it's ok to solicit me on my personal phone in the middle of the workday.

They've emailed several times. I've not responded. In what universe does that mean, "I just need to call him, he's clearly lonely and wants to hear a voice."

This has happened to me many times. I generally start by making it clear that I don't make purchasing decisions and asking not to be contacted again; if I am called a second time, I use the same techniques I do with tech support scammers, including giving fake or "insult hotline" callback numbers and asking them to hold for indefinite periods of time.
Suggestion: A Thunderbird plugin that makes people on your shitlist talk to GPT-3.

I wonder how fast spam would cease if that became the default behavior of mail clients. Spammers would need to manually wade through literal seas of garbage to find the one mail that's actually a legitimate reply.

I'm interested in using this. Reminds me of Ad Nauseum plugin
It wouldn't cease. Spammers would try to get people to respond some other way that's harder to automate. That might reduce the spam's response rate and cut volume some as a result, but it would not cease.
You think spammers want a reply?
Most of the people spamming with their bullshit do seem to want a reply, yes.

Here's a fraction of the spam I received last week:

> Dear Friend, I am Alli Ibrahim,I hope you're doing well and keeping yourself safe from the Coronavirus pandemic. I have a good business proposal for you. There are no risks involved and it is easy. Please reply for briefs and procedures. Best regards, Alli Ibrahim

> Hello would you be interested for us to be Partners in business in your country? Regards, Roseline Eribe from London.

> Hi <redacted>, I saw your profile online and wanted to reach out! You might be a great fit for many of the remote software engineering roles that top U.S. companies are hiring for on Turing.

> Hi <redacted>, I am looking for a possible tie up with a business or individual in your country so I can make some investments. Please, advise on investment opportunities in your country. Looking forward to your response.

> Hello Dear, I am Ivanov a Bulgarian, I have a business which I would like to discuss with you because I will be visiting your country soon. Let me know if you are Interested i will brief you in details.

+ about a dozen mails from adtech companies wanting to smear their shit over my property.

So, I'll use this to release my startup idea to solve spam. I am never going to build a startup at this point in my life, so I'm releasing this idea into the ether- maybe someone can make this happen :)

It's an email service/mailbox, let's call it inboundmail.com. You create your personal email there, let's say hash872@inboundmail.com. Every time you receive unsolicited spam to your 'real' Gmail or what have you, you respond with back with a stern GPDR/CCPA request that they delete your Gmail- and replace it with your unique, @inboundmail.com address. Within Inbound you can create any rules that you like to filter, block etc. This becomes your new 'public' address, like a Google Voice for email. Recruiters can spam you here, and so on. Revenue model? You charge senders to send x number of emails to inboundmail.com a month- the same way LinkedIn does.

In fact, speaking of LinkedIn- you could replace your personal email on file with LinkedIn, with your Inbound one. All LinkedIn messages get filtered to Inbound! Then you can sort, filter, auto-reply, block etc.

Could spammers just ignore Inbound and keep spamming your Gmail? Maybe, but I see the world going in a more regulated direction with GPDR/CCPA that makes this untenable. Once companies start paying some real fines, it'll be more difficult. 'Thanks Mr. Recruiter- please send future JDs to my Inbound email address', etc. You're in control. Thank you for coming to my TED talk

Pretty ironic to release your anti-spam startup by spamming a [mostly unrelated] thread about marketing emails originating from one's GitHub profile.

> you respond with back with a stern GPDR/CCPA request that they delete your Gmail- and replace it with

You can demand the data be removed but that's pretty much where it ends. There's not really any legal backing to demand that your data be replaced with other, specific data.

I don't know whether changing a preferred email would be covered, but the GDPR does allow you to demand your data be corrected. If your name is misspelled, for instance, you can force the other party to change it.

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-16-gdpr/

Hmm, sorry if it didn't come across intended. I see it as related in that my idea is a solution to spam, including the specific issue in the Tell HN- you could replace whatever personal email you have in your Github profile with this new one, thus directing all spam to one central location
My github bio explicitly states:

"Please do not contact with job offers or surveys not related to Internet Buttplugs."

And yet, I've only gotten 1, maybe 2, emails that relate to said topic. Everything else has nothing to do with it.

This is unconscionable.

You can't leave us hanging, what were the emails related to Internet buttplugs? Was it the IoST (for some reason they have been beaten at SEO by some blockchain bullshit), or the IoD?
Check his bio ;D
Thanks for the tip, i always forget that's an option.
How about all of the companies that use your dev email address to sign you up for their product then they send out an email to complete your registration. Fuck them
I wish I could throw marketing people into a Game of Thrones style dungeon. I really hate being advertised to.
Is this on pay-per-view somewhere? I think I would like to subscribe.
It seems that they also collect email addresses directly from git repositories: my email address isn't publicly visible on GitHub (in the user profile, that is) or similar services, yet spam with those developer-related products still arrives sometimes (e.g., some kubernetes-related "napptive" thingy, postgrest-related "subzero"). Asking spammers to stop spamming probably won't have much of an effect though.