Ask HN: Apple MacBook M1 16gb or 32GB Windows Laptop?
Been stuck in this dilemma for a long time and wanted to get out there and make a decision on which way to go, once and for all
I've been an Apple hater for their predatory tactics and overpriced products and also because an unbearable extent of vendor-locking [like compatibility only with Apple products most of the time]. Add to that, I have also hated the general UX of Mac OsX but I've got to admit I got somewhat used to it because I've been using them at work for a long time. In fact, I believe some Linux distros have a better UX and customizability in general. I've taken a look at Windows recently after a long long time and it seems like I can live with it. It's the WSL/Virtualization improvements that they made that impressed me. I work a lot with Docker btw
I'm now at a stage where I'm looking to buy a machine but torn between these two. The Macbook Pro seems 400$ more expensive with only 16GB of Ram, however I'm considering it more because of the Asahi Project. I'm not sure how long it will take before it's stable though. There are also other nice things like being quiet, cool, and having long battery life. The Windows laptop checks all boxes, is a touchscreen, and has 32GB RAM and a huge battery. I'm concerned about the RAM on the Macbook and 32GB is not something I want to afford at the moment. And I also see that Docker compatibility is a problem on M1 and it eats up the RAM pretty quickly. Windows on the other hand has a plenty 32GB and it should breeze through Docker because of WSL.
I wanted to get your opinions so as to weigh the tradeoffs better, and see which one would be a better choice for the next 4 years or so.
Sorry for the long post but will really really appreciate the help!
Thank you
56 comments
[ 0.25 ms ] story [ 112 ms ] threadThe M1 is amazing, battery is insane, I'm running 20+ docker containers, python, elixir, react/vue on the 8gb M1 air without a hitch. My main work machine is a linux desktop, but I'm considering buying a Mac Studio as my next one.
From https://www.macworld.com/article/234843/m1-macs-memory-isnt-... :
“The M1 processor’s memory is a single pool that’s accessible by any portion of the processor. If the system needs more memory for graphics, it can allocate that. If it needs more memory for the Neural Engine, likewise. Even better, because all the aspects of the processor can access all of the system memory, there’s no performance hit when the graphics cores need to access something that was previously being accessed by a processor core. On other systems, the data has to be copied from one portion of memory to another—but on the M1, it’s just instantly accessible.”
Due to that insistence our 2013 MBP is still going strong, and saved several thousand dollars in the process.
Which is the reason why they dont understand the minor differences in Keyboard, Trackpad, Speakers, Chassis finishing, durability, Power Supply, Display, etc.
So yes, Macbook is totally ahead of everything else in the industry. And that is coming from someone who supported Apple for 20+ years but currently intensely dislike Tim Cook's Apple.
Or they just have different preferences.
I have a macpro and a lenovo X1 carbon, and I prefer the X1 for most things.
The X1 keyboard wins hands down.
The mac looks nicer with the aluminium finish and doesn't get fingerprints all over it, but its sharp edged and not a nice felling surface like the X1 rubbery coating.
The X1 trackpad is smaller but tracks just as well as the mac touchpad and I prefer the physical buttons.
Mac has way better sound, but its also much bigger.
The X1 weighs significantly less but feels like its made out of stone with its carbon and magnesium chassis.
The biggest benefit of Apple is they don't make low end trash laptops - so if you are starting a corporate job the Apple laptop is a safer pick vs the Windows laptop lottery where you might get some janky low end Dell.
Especially the Keyboard, 1.5mm Ley Travel ( if I remember correctly ). Which was the old scissor keyboard Apple used to have but switch to some insane low key travel typing experience.
I think a lot of the Windows Laptop are finally catching up to Macbook. Simply because YouTube and reviewers are pointing out some of these things as comparison. And funny enough Microsoft is the one pushing this with their Surface Laptop. And largely the last point is the key difference. Apple dont make low end trash.
In reality if you are paying out of your own pocket the best value is to keep an eye on the refresh cycle for decent windows laptops and buy the previous generation at a heavy discount when the latest one comes out. This obviously assumes you aren't needing a new laptop asap, rather just upgrading for whatever reason.
I've had various Dell laptops personally, and of course used HP laptops on the job until 4 years ago, at which point I lucked into jobs where MacBooks were used. The hardware is just that much better.
I should add that I never used Windows on the Dells, just Linux.
Magic mouse is cool for a week then it sucks. It loses connection and scrolling and clicks are not 100% reliable. Its also expensive.
The scroll wheel that automatically changes from indexed to free spinning sounds wanky, but going back to a normal mouse is painful once you are used to it.
Asahi project looks like it will take a good two years before it "Just Works" for everyone. And from my experience, Docker implementation on macOS is still pretty slow.
Windows 11 + WSL2 is kinda good. Depending on who you ask.
HN demographic tends to favor Apple. Just so you know if you already didn't.
Throwing in support for this. Linux is the most sensible desktop I have used (Windows for 15+ years, Linux for 1 year, and MacOS for a miserable 6 months). WSL is incredible, in my opinion, but Windows 11 has been taking a very steep dive in the past year.
Often the hate is based on misinformation too, when asked haters will say things like “Apple slowed down old phones so you’ll buy a new one” - it doesn’t even click that the word “battery” in batterygate is important, or that Apple was extending the life of handsets, many of which were out of warranty. They didn’t communicate properly for which they paid heavily for but they feature was in good faith and survives to this day but I still read the parroted comment at least once a month in forums.
The “overpriced” thing confuses me too - surely Apple can only judge that? If they meet their sales targets then wasn’t it priced correctly? People obviously judged the specs, build quality, support period and thought, this is good value?
I’d question the “huge battery” of the Windows laptop, though. My understanding is that the MacBook Pros have the largest battery the FAA allows on US airplanes. So it seems unlikely the Windows laptop has a bigger battery. Given the Mac’s excellent battery management and low power consumption, you’re likely to get better battery life from the Mac.
I think there are a lot of issues with Apple and their products to the point where I'd rather not use them / support that company.
One of many examples would be how they handled the butterfly keyboard issue. If a hardware vendor behaves in such a way, I'd never buy another product from them again. In fact, Lenovo also had a few 'support issues' over the last few years, because of which I won't recommend any of their products here.
Maybe view it this way: no product is perfect; no product will fit everybody. When going for a Windows laptop, you have a _much_ bigger selection of products (and vendors) to choose from.
Pick a machine that fits your needs; don't bend your needs to fit the machine.
Unless you're already used to the Apple keyboard layout I wouldn't be seduced by the sexy hardware and outstanding engineering; I know I won't make that mistake again.
> it should breeze through Docker because of WSL
part though. In both macos and WSL what happens is you end up running docker on a vm and communicating with it from the host. Similar overhead either way, with the difference that you can run some existing images on m1 without an extra Intel emulation layer.
The performance gap is much wider when compared to Intel's current offerings AIUI.
Haven't looked deeper into it but a guess is that the new core architecture with P-cores and E-cores isn't utilized optimally under Linux. It's still perfectly usable (no actual freezes, crashes or instability so far) and I'm convinced that the situation will keep improving. If potential subtle performance irregularities today is a concern for you I'd recommend getting an AMD-based system (or even 11th-gen Intel if you really want the FW, which would be my pick).
If you want to optimize for reliable and stable with minimum hassle, get a device where the manufacturer actually supports Linux. It can make a big difference for things like network, audio and BT.
I have been through several Dell XPS's in that time.
The build quality on Mac is unparalleled.
PC is a little worse in perf/watt, but you can install any OS you want and tweak anything you want. And get much more RAM and disk space for the same buck. For serious computing professional, PC wins big time.
Ummmm, what? In that case, what about things like batteries, displays, speakers, GPUs, etc.? You're okay to use the crappiest combo of these provided they have good software running on them? Are you a new college grad or something?
"If you hate the company don’t buy their product"
I don't use my money to vote but rather to put it to some good use.
Looks like you're lost here, and in turn asking others to find logic, which is weird. We will appreciate if you can excuse yourself out of here. Thanks
Nothing you contributed to this conversation was even slightly intellectually gratifying. They have every right to be frustrated with the way you handled this.
We ban accounts that do that, so would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and avoid posting like this in the future?
We ban accounts that do that, so would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and avoid posting like this in the future?
That said, I recommend whatever you are comfortable with, and prefer using day-to-day. You don't need to have "the best", you need to have something you prefer and enjoy using.
There is no generic answer. For me, the best option is get a cheap windows machine or cheap mac and remote connect to a linux desktop in you company (if you have the option). That desktop will run 24h burning their power, and you are light and on the go with a cheap terminal which has MS office.
The other solution I tests is, connect your IDE (vscode, intellij) with remote development ssh in a linux vm (on cloud, or your company). Again you have linux x86 and a glorified terminal-computer.
with mac, you have a bonus, able to dev in ios and test safari. BUT the biggest con is compatibility. It was already a con compared to windows, but now with arm is even worst.