Launch HN: Lion Pose (YC W21) – Safe and effective skin care for people of color
When she was 10 years old, Madhu’s family took her to get her whole body bleached, because she was told it would make her skin more beautiful. She didn’t know that bleaching products contain toxic or potentially dangerous ingredients like mercury, steroids, and hydroquinone (which has possible links to cancer and kidney failure). Madhu is not alone in her experience—some reports estimate that nearly 50% of people of color have used bleaching products on their skin.
The horrors of bleach aside, skin of color has been notoriously left out of both medical training and new product development. Most skin images in medical textbooks are of white skin, dermatology residents are not trained to diagnose on darker skin tones, and skin of color is often omitted from clinical trials and studies. But skincare for people of color is a $9B market in the US, so this imbalance represents a big opportunity,
At Lion Pose, we are on a mission to end skin bleaching and create safe and effective solutions for brown skin issues. Our main product, Unspotted 4X, fights hyperpigmentation— dark spots, melasma, discoloration, or scars—which is the #2 skin issue for people of color, after acne. We scoured NIH studies to find the best active ingredients for darker skin tones. Our proprietary blend of acids (glycolic, lactic, tranexamic, and azelaic) exfoliate and resurface the skin, with antioxidants to promote healthy new growth.
We’re working with a medical board of Harvard-educated dermatologists to make sure we get this right. Most of them have black or brown skin themselves, so they understand the consumer’s point of view first-hand.
Our second product is a mineral SPF 30 sunscreen made with zinc oxide. Similar to bleach, traditional SPF ingredients like oxybenzone have been linked to cancer. Zinc-based sunscreens don’t have this problem. However, they tend to have a thick white consistency, which is particularly difficult to blend on darker skin tones—you may have noticed this if you’ve ever applied them to yourself, and then tried to rub away the highly visible traces they leave! We’ve created a smooth absorbable formula, tinted with safe iron oxides, allowing blendability on dark skin.
Clinical skincare is the fastest growing category at beauty retailers like Sephora. Our products will be available in all Sephora stores in the US and Canada upon launch (Sephora projects $3M in sales in the first year), which we hope will allow us to grow without having to rely on expensive Facebook ads. Retail sales still dominate in this market.
Many people don’t realize that there is little to no regulation of skincare products in the US. This has caused a market saturated with products that are useless and/or ineffective, or even harsh and damaging. Most consumers aren’t going to research specific ingredients to find products that really work for their skin tone. Therefore, truly clinical skincare products feel unattainable or inaccessible—most consumers believe you must be wealthy and have access to top dermatologists to have healthy "glowing" skin. We hope to contribute to changing this!
We are about to kick off our next round of consumer testing. If you or someone you know are interested in trying our products, we’d love to hear from you. Write us at founders@lionpose.com and we’ll send you physical samples.
We’ll be around in the thread and look forward to your comments!
67 comments
[ 1.5 ms ] story [ 150 ms ] threadAnd do you have any plans to expand from direct to consumer skincare? Maybe something to address medical texts exclusively depicting white skin?
Nothing explicitly wrong with a feminine-first vibe, but I don't see anything particularly masculine, or even neutral on the site. Seems more like a repackaging of traditional white women marketing, but for darker skin.
One thought, you mentioned Skin Type 3-6 in one of the products. Do you have a description of that anywhere? Most Google results for "skin type" focus mainly on how oily your skin is. Having some sort of literature directly on the site may help. Though tbf I'm speaking as a man, I'm not sure how well known it is for your target audience.
And we are referring to the Fitzpatrick Skin Types, which are definitely not well-known. Great tip to clarify this better in our messaging.
Some more about Fitzpatrick Skin Types: https://www.healthline.com/health/beauty-skin-care/fitzpatri...
The other question I have comes from my background as a geoscientist. Your usage of iron oxides for pigmentation seems genius here. Iron oxides occur naturally in shades from bright yellows to reddish-blacks. It seems that using iron oxide as a pigment (mankind has used this for millenia) is the most perfect way to enable exact skin tone matching. My question though is this - in your studies have you found any tendency of the iron oxides to stain clothing on exposure to sweat or through normal wear and tear? I know that iron staining of laundry and porcelain for people who get their water from wells with high iron content is usually addressed in the water softening/conditioning operation before distribution to faucets in the household. Do you anticipate problems with iron staining on clothing? It's a dumb question and probably a non-issue since you have obviously done a lot of work in this space.
Congratulations to you all and best of luck in your efforts to improve and create safe skin care options for people of color.
Your question about iron oxide is super interesting! Like any tinted product (even artificially tinted like a foundation), there is always some risk to the product getting on and staining clothing or accessories. Because our product is primarily meant to be used on the face, we are less concerned about this. We may create another version of this product for body, and will need to be much more conscious of the possibility of staining. We also formulated the product to have a fast "dry-down" time, meaning it absorbs relatively quickly into the skin. After a minute or two, it should not be rubbing off easily on clothing or other accessories.
And a fun anecdote for zinc oxide sun protection, I once accidentally bought one of those. It looked slightly questionable on my pasty white skin, but on her, it looked hilarious, she turned purple :D
We do have plans to expand to Europe. Our Sephora retail relationship is specific to the US and Canada, so we are going to start there. However, Canada regulation is very similar to EU regulation, so expanding to Europe will be the easiest, most natural next step for us.
Your story is so common! I hope your wife is able to get her hands on a non-purple zinc sunscreen soon :)
I like my skin color. I don't really care about my 'hyperpigmentation', lol. WTF is that?
Also, maybe women are different, but zinc oxide sunscreen works great, and I don't really care about the white streaks on my skin. There's way better things to do at the beach than worry about my sunscreen.
Large dark patches, typically on the face. It’s seen almost exclusively in women because it’s hormonal and is believed to be predominantly a side-effect of birth-control medication. It often appears after pregnancy.
> As both new and old brands jump on the now-trending bandwagon of skincare for colored skin, most are simply adding token brown models to their campaigns and “brownwashing” existing products— changing up an ingredient, putting “for dark skin” on the labels, and claiming to target problems like hyperpigmentation.
Right, like "problems like hyperpigmentation" does sound like that. Amusing, freckles are a form of hyperpigmentation and I don't think they're considered unattractive.
Still, if people want to take action on this aspect of their faces, then better they use safer tools.
The 'delta' between your normal skin and that scarred skin can be large for this skin type. Uneven skin tone and patches are a reminder of your scars, and they last way longer.
Had it as a teenager, it was more unpleasant than the acne.
If this is the future of HN, there’s going to be a market opening for a replacement!
Science of skincare, underserved markets, sociological phenomena.
But all that aside, plenty of geeks with darker skin found it interesting enough to click, myself included.
We started doing Launch HNs in early 2017. You can see the complete list here: https://news.ycombinator.com/launches. The advice we give to YC startups about launching on HN is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/yli.html. The logistical parts only apply to YC cos, but the communication advice applies to everyone.
You're certainly right that not all these startups would make the front page through upvotes only, but we do work hard to write them up in a way that we hope will genuinely interest the community, and many of them end up getting a lot of upvotes and staying on the front page a long time.
If that's what customers want and are ready to pay for, why not deliver it to them?
> Our proprietary blend of acids (glycolic, lactic, tranexamic, and azelaic) exfoliate and resurface the skin
Uh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azelaic_acid#Whitening_agent
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28669590/
> "As interest in skin beauty increases, the development of new skin whitening agents has attracted substantial attention; however, the action mechanism of the agents developed so far remains largely unknown. Tranexamic acid (TXA) is commonly being used to reduce melanin synthesis"
Maybe you are already delivering what the market wants, just by a different name :)
You're completely right that some of our ingredients are specifically included to fade/lighten (whatever terminology you want to use) dark spots, because that is an outcome our customers are looking for. However, we have chosen ingredients like azelaic acid and tranexamic acid that are much safer compared to existing solutions.
Regarding tyrosinase inhibitors like tranexamic acid: There is a scientific reason why these ingredients must be included. People of color tend to get more dark spots and scars because darker skin has a tendency to produce more melanin when irritated. So when you get hormonal acne, for instance, the skin becomes irritated and inflamed. The inflammation causes your melanin production to go into overdrive, resulting in the spot or scar that comes after. Including tyrosinase inhibitors like Tranexamic acid (at safe levels) is not meant to whiten overall skin tone. It is meant to prevent the overproduction of melanin which causes spots.
Hope that helps!
Indeed, and it was done has part of the omnibus Covid relief bill IIRC.
After having reviewed all the evidence, it doesn't seem to be such a clear cut case to me as it was for say mercury.
I have melasma, and I was happily using hydroquinone OTC products. The only noticeable difference this ban has made to me is to gatekeep the products with a costly prescription.
> There is a scientific reason why these ingredients must be included
Totally!
BTW, you may want to look at others such as glycyrrhizic acid.
Skin bleaching refers to the use of toxic chemicals that are endocrine disruptors. Here's a great article outlining the issue: https://www.cnn.com/specials/world/white-lies-skin-whitening.
We're working on safer solutions for dark spots that do not contain hydroquinone and mercury.
I typically purchase my sunscreen from Japan because they allow modern sunscreen ingredients.
Our concerns about lack of regulation are two-fold: (1) That products that contain very mild ingredients (like fruit extracts) are being sold to people with claims that are unsubstantiated. For example: Claiming to reduce dark spots, when there is little scientific evidence to support it. (2) That products with very harsh ingredients (25% AHA / BHA peels, for example) are being sold without much warning and education that they could cause irritation on certain skin types.
First and foremost, we want to spread awareness about skin bleaching/whitening practices. This includes its ties to white supremacy and systemic racism. It's astounding how few people know about it given how pervasive it is. Second, we want to provide safe alternative solutions for people of color who wish to fade dark spots and scars without toxic bleaching ingredients. Third, we are a business, so of course we want to sell product.
We definitely plan to support anti-racism more broadly; however, we are still determining where and how to best support with the resources we have. I'd love to hear any ideas you may have on this topic!
Also, what are the water-table issues with these (both the bad ones and the ones youre working on?
Sunscreen is VERY bad for fish... and we should be putting less chemicals in the world....
So, can you attest to the Marine Safety of your products, or will they "turn the frogs gay" so to speak.
Finally - I think it would be great it you can find a sustainable bamboo container (an actual cylinder of bamboo, not the laminated strips. (I know an environmental lawyer in the PH who represents the bamboo industry, at least she did - Ill have to ask...)
But it would be sad if you are selling $3,000,000 worth of disposable plastic bullshit.
Maybe instead you can work on a refill option with Sephora, or at least a reclaimation of program (if you know anything about women who buy stuff from ULTA... they love their ULTA points... Not sure about Sephora points -- but get a reclaimation program for points going...
Good job though, the world needs this. AND if you can help reduce pollution in SEA countries, that would be a boon... the lack of environmental responsibility in SEA is utterly attrocious, and like I said $3,000,000 worth of garbage containers when you sell is no bueno - regardless of your skin product.
Edit:
Sephora's largest international suppliers (by shipment count, where 'shipment' is manifest of anything across a (sea/land) based shipment through customs...
https://www.importyeti.com/company/sephora-usa
This isn't a ranked list, but skin bleaching is unfortunately popular in India, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Nigeria, Senegal, and many other countries in addition to the Philippines.
> Sunscreen is VERY bad for fish...
You're totally right about certain sunscreen ingredients being bad for the environment! In 2018, Hawaii became the first state to ban the sale of sunscreens containing oxybenzone and octinoxate, because they harm coral reefs and ocean wildlife. We do not include these ingredients in our sunscreen.
> Maybe instead you can work on a refill option with Sephora
Our serum is actually being produced in a refillable bottle. For operational reasons (it is very difficult to manage refills from an inventory planning standpoint), we won't offer refills from Day 1, but the plan is to offer refills when we have more sales data.
> they love their ULTA points
Sephora customers also love their Sephora Points :)
> Good job though, the world needs this.
Thank you!!
Also what do you mean by people of color? The skin tone of human being is a continuous spectrum from milky pale to midnight dark and every shade in between. I supposed as skin care professionals you must have a scientific way to quantify that, in stead of just "people of color".
We have formulated our products with ingredients ideal for Fitzpatrick Skin Types 3-6 (medium to very dark skin).
"Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine."
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."
"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."
Edit: at the risk of going offtopic, perhaps it would be helpful to explain in a bit more detail:
When you post "just don't bleach your skin, was it hard to understand", that's not only a shallow dismissal, it indicates that you haven't taken the time to read the thread, where they've talked multiple times about the skin conditions their product treats (I know literally nothing about this, except that I did read the thread).
Second, what you posted about 'people of color' definitely felt like cross-examination to me, i.e. hostile questioning designed to 'gotcha' rather than curious conversation. "People of color", for better or worse (it's a rather stilted phrase) is the term that 'polite society' has settled on for the time being—in other words, it's used by millions if not hundreds of millions of people. It's not as if these founders invented it, and challenging them about whether the phrase has any meaning points the thread into a social-controversy flamewar, which is off topic in the context of a startup launch.
Actually, when I re-read your comment, the last sentence doesn't seem hostile if I ignore the previous sentences. If you had stuck to that and maybe added a bit of neutral context to explain why you were asking, it would have been fine - and fortunately nphatak has already give you an informative answer.
In my case, being mixed race, I could fall anywhere between 2 and 4 depending on the time of the year and my tanning. The clarification is helpful. "Lion Pose" also evokes Black culture so I would assume the intention is to target mainly the Black community (of which I consider myself part of, anyway) whilst people of colour is a broader group so it's a valid question.
It can also be confusing (and for some frustrating, but I don't find it so myself) because "people of colour", especially in the USA, generally means anything that's not a 1 on that scale (e.g. some latinos or mediterraneans), so the ambiguity can easily be avoided by using darker skin vs fairer skin, which also has no political or ideological connotations, generally.
Personally I think this is a great brand and one I hope also makes it across the pond to Europe. We need more, not fewer, beauty and skincare products aimed at treating darker skins.
Millions or hundred of millions of people using the phase "people of color" doesn't make it correct, especially in a skincare context. I don't call myself colored (I am Chinese) and my black friends don't call themselves colored, my Indian friends don't call themselves colored. This is a nerd's forum so I tried to be nerdy about it.
> I was referring to the anecdote story at the beginning of the post. I believe even in the US, bleaching your skin has been an obsolete practice so I am not sure which point the anecdote was supposed to make.
If you had posted that originally, instead of a shallow dismissal that came across as cross-examining, it would have been fine. Even better, you could have posted "I believe even in the US, bleaching your skin has been an obsolete practice" and followed it up with a curious question. You may have been unsure which point they were making, but that doesn't mean there wasn't one. Why not simply ask for it politely? Your entire comment was the antithesis of that, which is why I responded to it in detail.
My wife is a plastic surgeon and I'd like to link to some of your content specific to providers, contraindications, etc.
Thanks!
Apparently the pigmentation is at best equivalent to SPF 13.
Related article I came across.
https://www.healthline.com/health/black-people-need-sunscree...?
[edit] Oh I get it wrong. It's not just a creme for dark skin. I see it is a product to bleach dark skin but without bleach?
I don't know what I'm reading here anymore. Basically healthy bleach for dark skin? I feel a bit deceived though. Thought you were against bleaching, but it's just the bleach itself that you're against.
This response from an earlier comment might help:
https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=32668422&goto=item%3Fi...