Ask HN: Why is Reddit deleting NSFW Stable Diffussion subreddits?
As title says. Reddit seems to be on a banning-spree and removing anything that is AI-related and NSFW. The r/StableDiffusion subreddit recently banned NSFW content as well.
There is plenty of NSFW overall on Reddit, but AI-generated NSFW doesn't seem to be mentioned in any site-wide rules, in the Terms of Service and no reasoning is being provided by Reddit.
So why is this happening?
33 comments
[ 4.2 ms ] story [ 81.7 ms ] threadRegardless, I'd understand if that specific thing was made a bannable offense if that was the reason, but no reason to ban the entire niche.
Just like just because Photoshop could be used for what you're describing, subreddits about digital illustrations are not being banned.
People like this
https://www.lesswrong.com/
have driven people into hysteria over AI safety, partially to make people think AI is better than it is, partially to distract against real threats like global warming.
They're not banning regular images even though the medium could be used for revenge porn. So why this?
(1) If it wasn't for the second there would be a gold rush of firms trying to replicate the success of OnlyFans, that is, there is already a huge business and the possibility of a much larger business.
(2) There is also increasing trouble around NSFW images. Consider CSAM. The trouble with CSAM is that CSAM is documentation of child abuse and that's why it has to be prosecuted. On the other hand people don't really get in trouble for child pornography which is hand drawn because the forbidden desire isn't the problem, the original crime is the problem. With AI image generation people can generate unlimited quantities of "child abuse free" CSAM which might reduce the market for real CSAM but will vastly complicate the problem of managing CSAM.
I think people will find other reasons to crack down on pornography. As ugly and stupid as traditional pornography is (e.g. consider the 'pigface' scowl that was routine in Penthouse and Hustler and is still common or the many conventions that I think are completely unarousing but seduce people in the perverse manner of 'this is common in pornography so it must be arousing'), I suspect the OnlyFans model is actually more harmful to users.
Payment networks are cracking down, for instance the polymorphous perverse site Danbooru got cut off. AI generated porn is just going to lead to more fear of things getting out of hand and swifter and more complete crackdowns.
There are so many red herrings in this argument. The technology is interesting and potentially useful. You are basically saying that Reddit is okay with CSAM as long as it is computer generated. But they aren't, and they do handle it when they find it on their site, regardless of how it was created. Technology is not the problem. Behavior is.
Should they ban pics taken from all digital cameras since they also can be used to post CSAM and whatever other bugaboo one could add to the list, meanwhile already handled through subreddit moderation? No, of course not. Because the technology isn't the problem. I've already said it: Behavior is. And Reddit already controls for illegal behavior.
The “ad-pocalypse” on YouTube and it’s subsequent iterations saw tons of youtubers demonetized and “problematic content” throttled all because discussions of the “alt right pipeline” of YouTube. People started calling sponsors like Coke telling that that they must support this content if they advertise on YouTube etc, so YouTube crushed it. Likewise on all other social media. It’s another outgrowth of outrage/cancel culture
This is just plain not true. They very clearly ban AI-generated NSFW content, hence the removal of the subs:
>Additionally, images or video of another person posted for the specific purpose of faking explicit content or soliciting “lookalike” pornography (e.g. “deepfakes” or "bubble porn") is also against the Rule.
I Google'd "reddit rules", this[1] page was the top result, and under "Rule 3" the reader is linked to this[2] page, with the above quote.
[1]https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy
[2]https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043513411
That's just plain old not true. Stable Diffusion absolutely can generate a likeness of a celebrity, just try it here[1] (I just punched in "Uma Thurman" completely at random and got a few likenesses of her face returned to me). You can download the public model and tweak it to go even further[2], eg nude.
[1]https://huggingface.co/spaces/stabilityai/stable-diffusion
[2]https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgygy4/stable-diffusion-stab...
>Additionally, images or video of another person posted for the specific purpose of faking explicit content or soliciting “lookalike” pornography (e.g. “deepfakes” or "bubble porn") is also against the Rule.
So, any lookalike pornography of any kind is against the rules. "Deepfake" is just listed as an example. The method used to generate the lookalike pornography is irrelevant - Photoshop, GIMP, hand-drawing, Stable Diffusion, deepfakes, whatever - it doesn't matter, because the result is still "lookalike pornography", which itself is against the rules. There's more verbiage on that page that continues to make their stance clear:
>Intimate media include a depiction of the person in a state of nudity or engaged in any act of sexual conduct, including depictions that may have been faked.
Regardless. Say "any lookalike pornography of any kind is against the rules", then surely content fitting that rule, would be removed from the site. But if people keep submitting such content to lets say r/nsfw, then the entire subreddit won't be banned, only the content removed (by either moderators or administrators).
Instead, (hypothetically) what's happening, is that reddit is removing entire subreddits containing pornography because some of them contain look-alike pornography. You see the conflict now?