That user is one of the Very Important Posters who is allowed to break the rules with impunity. Occasionally dang will chide him but he obviously will never be banned so there’s no reason for him to stop.
>That user is one of the Very Important Posters who is allowed to break the rules with impunity.
Are you kidding? Dang and I have gotten into arguments on several occasions because I criticize this community too much, I've lost vouching permissions because I vouch for "controversial" comments, I'm not entirely certain my votes or flags work anymore, and my account has been rate limited for months.
The kind of poster you're talking about has a CV and lots of interesting stories to pull out of their pocket to balance out their sins, and the mods will beg and plead with them time and time again to follow the rules because they don't want to lose the quality of their content, regardless of how egregious their conduct is - but I'm definitely not that person.
Didn't the major story hit while he was president?
No one paid as much attention to the story because he was doing too many idiotic things simultaneously.
But honestly, UFOs are a cover for the US military trying out Black projects on their own forces. If they can't figure out what it is, the Black project is working.
> If they can't figure out what it is, the Black project is working.
I was thinking the opposite. If the military cannot identify something (truly can't, not just saying they can't) then there is a serious gap in our sensor capabilities. If any entity needs to be able to identify objects, it's the military.
That sounds like two victories for the black project. 1) our last project was successful in evading existing sensor technologies, 2) our next project will address the gaps in our sensor capabilities.
The idea of the US government having that level of technology and keeping it totally hidden doesn’t jive with all the missteps and human level errors we have seen so many politicians and military officials make.
Looking at something like MK Ultra it is just a bunch of dudes doing shit by intuition and making massively dumb misstep’s. Unless things like that are just false flags to distract us from some hyper advanced and nefarious shadow govt we don’t know about.
Incidentally the A-12 (basically a single seat SR-71) was adapted into the M-21 that carried a D-21 drone. This was a failure though, and the Chinese now have a wreck of a D-21 in one of their museums.
It would probably look like an extremely refined version of the original but would still be using jet propulsion. The maneuvers of many of the UFOs couldn't be performed by jet engines (stopping on a dime and then moving in the opposite direction instantly). Which would imply a new technology for movement.
If you think about our current technology it follows a pretty linear evolution going all the way back to steam engines, in that we are setting stuff on fire and catching the energy from it. We just have more efficient material and better energy capture. We would have had to surpass this modality for creating energy entirely to achieve the feats that some of these UFOs are performing. That would have massive implications for energy, transportation etc. This just doesn't make sense unless most of what we know about our government is some giant facade.
> The idea of the US government having that level of technology and keeping it totally hidden doesn’t jive with all the missteps and human level errors we have seen so many politicians and military officials make.
It's not clear what "that level of technology" even is. Mick West's analysis has convinced me that the videos the USN has publicly shown don't show any exotic capabilities.
Inb4 the usual response of "USN pilots are experts they know what they saw"
Experts can be mistaken. Experts can play pranks, participate in hoaxes, official disinformation schemes, etc.
Didn't it take 10-20 years to prove what they were up to in MKUltra? My guess is that most current "unidentified arial phenomena" will lose the "un-" in at most 15 years.
> To summarize the above, if we were to take each of them at their word:
> - They are extremely technologically advanced
No, that's not what the quotes say. None of the quotes I see says anything about the "technology" of UAPs. Only one of the quotes even uses the word "technology" and even that one is merely saying that "this isn't technology from foreign adversaries". That quote even leaves open the possibility that we're dealing with (say) natural weather phenomena, instrument problems, etc., let alone anything artificial.
Certainly one of the possibilities. It could also be disinfo to send enemy states down a path to nowhere. The UAP phenomenon is not going to boil down to a single thing. There will be a spectrum of explanations, most of which are banal.
This is why I tell my friend who is passionate about extraterrestrials visiting Earth that I believe in UFOs but not flying saucers or alien spacecraft. Hard to argue with true-believers though.
The CIA has operated spy aircraft before, built by aircraft manufacturers obviously. The U-2 and A-12 (immediate predecessor to the SR-71) have both been operated by the CIA.
Not to mention the Glomar Explorer [0],[1]. The CIA might not be in the engineering business itself, but definitely has the money and the resources to fund those who are.
> I also like citing politicians because, in discussing UAP, they have little to gain (they’re already famous, UAP are not a wedge issue) and much to lose (looking foolish). And they have access to far more information than the general public, especially former presidents and members of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
And at that point, I realized I had forgotten my waders, so I had to stop reading.
Well, while we are on the topic, it could be a PR move leading to a future geopolitical move [1] to justify things like banning bitcoin, encryption, and toilets that flush correctly. It would be impressive technology to do such a thing, but so are the current surveillance and military programs that we know about.
- You'd need a way to send an "alien ship" into space, which would most likely involve Elon Musk and SpaceX
- This would be an absolutely massive operation. You'd need to keep it quiet. So either you're doing the vast amount of work with a super-AI that hasn't been announced yet (OpenAI, perhaps), or you'd have to figure out how to keep thousands of people from leaking the details. This would require a massive army of people, completely loyal to the cause.
- As there will be a bunch of people who don't believe the story, you'd need the willpower and inhumanity to kill them. But I imagine that someone invested in this story believes there is an army out there willing to do this for "the cause".
- The bitcoin thing is a bit out-of-left-field, but I guess that they want to ban Bitcoin because it's decentralized, and not Ethereum because it is "controlled" by Vitalik (who is in on this conspiracy?). They'd be doing this under the guise of energy savings, but instead just taking control of a traceable cryptocurrency.
This explains why so many conspiracy-minded folk are anti-mask and anti-vax. They likely see it as "conditioning" to do whatever is necessary for the world to survive (gradually escalating compliance?). So perhaps we are part of this army that is being raised to improve the world.
It's amusing to think about what would be required for this conspiracy, but alas I have not been sent my invitation to join the secret WEF army yet. Or is that what someone who _was_ invited would say?
As I see it, there are basically two possibilities:
- There is a society of technologically advanced individuals on earth, whether human, alien, or something else.
- Each individual UAP encounter has some mundane explanation, and a large chunk of humanity has projected fantastical ideas onto them, to the point of full-blown hallucinations.
The second is obviously either mostly or entirely true, given the viral nature of the subject matter, the internet and UFO culture. It's unavoidable, really. Occam's Razor suggests that the remainder, if it exists, can be explained by cutting edge, top secret but still entirely human technology.
Counter-intelligence operation. It blows my mind that nobody else seems to have noticed the fact that as soon as executive orders were signed, banning military disinformation campaigns aimed at citizens, all the aliens disappeared! And then after Obama got rid of the last of those protections - on his way out the door, supposedly in the interest of combatting Russian disinformation (seriously, that was the excuse), the aliens suddenly reappeared!
I understand the utilitarian logic of it, but it still strikes me as pretty disgusting... there are people who actually believe this crap, and I don't think they're mentally better off for it.
Interesting theory but there's no way various government agencies stopped and started lying because of some signed orders. Perhaps very public facing transparent agencies like the department of transportation or the like, but the CIA and pentagon never stopped lying.
Yes it did, I've actually seen a CI op get blown after being picked up by domestic media - months of hard work abandoned the instant Popular Science decided to write, at length, about some gee-wiz military tech - without actually doing any kind of investigation. Say what you will about the CIA and the rest of the USG, but the DoD actually makes a pretty serious effort to follow not only the letter of the law - but the spirit of the law.
I don't even know how to respond to this. The idea that the intelligence and military apparatuses follow the law to the T is absurd to me. Perhaps some facts to the contrary:
* The CIA and NSA conduct mass surveillance of the American public, contrary to the law [1] [2]
* The CIA maintains illegal black sites with systematic torture [3]
* The CIA made a request to execute a false flag againstamericancitizens to start war with Cuba [4]
* The CIA executes illegal assassinations and other covert operations [5]
* The Pentagon has presided over many illegal wars and war crimes [6] [7]
Apparently by complaining about the CIA... which very solidly rooted in the unaccountable civilian "steady state". The NSA, while technically military, is run by civilian private contractors at the pleasure of the civilian executive branch. The major role military personnel play is to press the enter key, kicking off hacking scripts they didn't write, because we don't want Booz Allen Hamilton directly committing potential acts of war. Finally you end your response with an example of the military actually enforcing the law against transgressors within its ranks... so not a very logical response.
I can see how somebody with no military experience could think that, but one of the first things you notice in their indoctrination programs - the US military has an unmatched institutional memory. As a result of that, in aggregate, their programs are very formulaic - and deviation from that sticks out like a sore thumb. The most questionably legal activities involving the military (not sheep dipped CIA), is related to red cell probes... which is pretty tame compared to what some people (informed by 24 and Jason Borne) seem to believe.
I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that "all the aliens disappeared" for that period of time. Is there a database of sightings that shows a dip then?
I'm sure there is some tortured soul who has compiled such a dataset, but you'll have an easier time verifying my claim by looking at the timeline of US military involvement in domestic news articles. You'll notice the military's absence in the narrative (beyond passive object of suspicion) in roughly the stretch between Carter and Obama. I say roughly because the protections against domestic disinformation campaigns was a collection of executive orders and policies that were sunset, or otherwise reversed, in an unorganized manner - meaning that some methods became permissible before others, and some people were slower to rediscover (or just flat out opposed to) the old bag of tricks return.
My theory is that Russia/China/other-US-military-adversaries certainly cannot rewrite the laws of physics. But they might have gotten awful good at spoofing advanced sensors.
yes, one could work miracles with a couple of ultra high power IR lasers producing constructive interference with each other, yielding an optical phenomenon, perhaps even some thermal and RF signature.
If you have a sufficiently powerful laser, you can create a spark that floats in mid-air. The air at the focal point gets ionized by the strong electric fields and looks quite dazzling (and dangerous).
That spark, in turn, can be moved around freely and emits all sorts of RF noise.
yes you have it right on, now if we can infer the effective range of such a technique it may be apparent that the real target is about twenty miles removed from the visual manifestation of the phenomenon.
Any laser that’s powerful enough to do that would leave an IR trail back to the source which would be visible with FLIR and most likely even with the naked eye due to the atmospheric effects of heating up the air.
Not necessarily. If it's a femtosecond pulse laser, the instantaneous power is extremely high and creates a sufficiently intense field, but the time-average power is low enough that it wouldn't create much heat away from the focus.
After seeing Garmin GPS units duct taped in Russian cockpits and cannon cameras in drones we can probably exclude Russia.
China is still incapable of building complex home grown avionics and more importantly propulsive systems.
When you are still reliant on licensing jet engines you probably aren’t flying nearly physics breaking aircraft.
EW is a possibility however sensor spoofing still requires an asset near by and one with a lot of on board power.
Many of those incidents weren’t where Russia or China could realistically deploy assets too.
Right now the most plausible scenario (other than sensor artifacts and delusions) is that it’s either the US themselves doing it in secret or the private sector they are the only ones with the means to really test systems like the ones observed so far.
It's not just blurry photos. There are also military pilot sightings corroborated with radar and FLIR, and the vehicles move in ways not possible with currently available human technology and science.
But only at extreme range and sort of hard to make out. Like idk we live in a big world and fly a lot of military aircraft. It would be a bit surprising if we didn’t sometimes encounter edge cases in all of that that can’t quite be explained. And remember these things are just barely unexplainable, the vast majority of these types of sightings are explained we’re just left with literally a handful that are too tough
A whole bunch of those have since been positively confirmed as operator error or calibration issues. Also these cases are often from new kit the operators were unfamiliar with, I don’t see how that can be a coincidence.
The fact is we should expect a certain amount of false positives. So the real question is do we see more of these cases than we’d probably get anyway.
Ultimately we have to ask ourselves what’s more likely, super intelligent aliens getting almost-caught sneaking around in the liminal zones of perception? Or human error, sensory fallibility, and ghost stories?
I really don't know to be honest. The universe is improbable enough as it is. And we humans can sneak around the liminal zones of animal perception without much difficulty. To think that we are at the top of the tree of life is ridiculously improbable considering the number of species out there, in the millions. We just aren't able to perceive the ones more advanced than us, other than confusing glimpses, no more than an ant can understand us, and gets confused when we put a stick in its path.
Most of these turn out to be sensor artifacts, operator errors and the likes, and even some blatant fakes.
The problem is: it takes much more effort to investigate (and possibly debunk) each of these occurrences than to shout "UFO! UAP!".
It always reminds of the rule of bullshit: it takes 10x more effort to debunk bullshit than to produce it. Thus if you don't want to be tangled up in believing lots of bullshit, you have to develop a certain resistance to it.
We as a public have not developed that certain resistance to uncertainty in observations, and still jump on them, thinking this time it could really be aliens.
>>There will always be some blurry / ambiguous photos. The fact that no sharp pictures show alien spacecraft means that blurriness is the phenomenon.
>It's not just blurry photos. There are also military pilot sightings corroborated with radar and FLIR
Can you link to specific incidents? All the ones I'm aware of are all pretty blurry/ambiguous. That makes sense, considering that if there was a high quality photo of an alien aircraft, it would be a settled matter and we won't have to speculate on an internet forum about whether they exist or not.
There also is a simple explanation for it, pilots are quite reliant these days on sensor data if the sensors telling them that there is something there their brains might fill the gap.
Also pilots have been reporting seeing UFOs for nearly 100 years, arguably this is one of the first times we have some sensor data to back visual reports.
That would make sense if the US military-industrial complex had any problems whatsoever with funding. As far as I can see, the military and black-budget initiatives in the US already have an infinite, no questions asked credit line from the taxpayers and Congress. They don't need to resort to something this ridiculous, and even if they did, as you mentioned Russia and China are already effective boogeymen.
Not like greed has a limit. When a measurable percentage of congress is invested in conspiracy theories seems like a good time to get a bigger cut of an even darker black box.
There are some real nuts in Congress, but the ones they would really need to convince are the twenty or so on the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense. Most of the real wackjobs are in the House of Reps, and I have a feeling the members of the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense are kept on a shorter leash than most of the rest. At least insofar as being well informed about defense matters is concerned.
see, if we just elected people that wanted good government then they wouldn't waste money on boondoggles
The problem here though, is that the interstellar space aliens are smart enough to have sightings in every state, therefore insuring wide spread political support for additional funding
This wouldn't make sense as a target. "We estimate we'll need seven quintillion dollars and it will take about seven hundred years" doesn't make for a good money-grab.
The gap between how the government runs in actual practice, and how citizens think it runs is so large that I'm not sure we can even communicate coherently about it
Well you should roll back to the time of the missile gap, where Kissinger helped get a lot of nukes built for political reasons more than anything. Raytheon has adds on subway stations in DC for a reason. Messaging works.
I've been a senior DoD technology leader, I know how it works. I live in DC, I see the ads.
Never once has Raytheon or any other defense company tried to make me or any other PEO, acquisitions or contracting officer buy something by generating some fake scare in an attempt to make me or anyone who can actually spend money on behalf of the DoD do so (hint, there's not that many people who can actually approve real money).
People think there is some conspiracy to just grow our military for it's own sake - in fact it's almost always at the behest of a foreign partner that needs defense and is asking for the DoD to come and help them (usually via treaty or NATO request).
The reason the DoD and the US IC grows is because we are literally protecting the economic freedom of MOST of the world because they explicitly ask us to protect them. It is in our best interest to protect those who ask because the more people who are our partners and allies, the more we can increase trade and promote our way of life. Whether you think that is good or bad is up to you. However there is no secret government cabal sitting around trying to figure out some new fake reason to scare the population. There's more than enough scary things that you aren't dealing with on a daily basis because
What was the last time an American citizen seriously worried about being invaded by a foreign power or attacked by a nation state? It just doesn't even occur to the average citizen that there are about a million people working to ensure Americans don't even have to think about not being attacked by foreign power. This is true for every major nation state with a significant defense presence.
> The proposals called for CIA operatives to both stage and actually commit acts of terrorism against American military and civilian targets, blaming them on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba. The possibilities detailed in the document included the remote control of civilian aircraft which would be secretly a repainted US Air Force plane,[2] the possible assassination of Cuban immigrants, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas,[3] blowing up a U.S. ship, and orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.[2] The proposals were rejected by President John F. Kennedy.
Thank you for bringing this up. These examples prove the point at how rare, egregious and unfruitful all such efforts to create such a cabal have been. Notably solidifying the reality that no such cabal exists.
It is true that unethical people have tried to do illegal things in the past. Gen Lemnitzer was fired as JCS and nothing ever came of it. How about when a group of traitors tried to get Gen Smedley Butler to run a coup in the Business plot?
There are always going to be people trying to seek power. The ENTIRE REASON we are structured the way we are with civilian politicians and civilian head of the DoD who are there at the will of the people is to prevent such situations and so far we've done a good job at rooting them out.
All this proves is that we need the best most ethical people running the show and it actually is important that you, the citizen, is involved in putting the right people in charge. So are you doing everything you can for your country to make sure that the best people are in charge and most importantly the functions of the system continue to act as checks on the others? Are you doing that? Have you done public service in ANY capacity? If so great, keep it up and maybe think about what you could be doing to make your system more robust and reducing similar risks.
Operation Northwoods only became public knowledge about 3 decades after JFK rejected it. If he had approved it, we might never have heard of it. There is no way to be sure what nefarious shit they're up to today that we might not hear about until the 2050s if ever.
This is what you got from his response to you, that the fact they put forward such a dumb idea to a president seems to prove no "cabal" exists?
If it did not exist, why was the dumb idea put forward? why the need to invade Cuba? Why all the other underhanded involvement in other countries over the years?
Then you list other examples of such nefarious behaviours?
Thankfully the US government does not have a serious problem with lobbying, corruption (number 27 on the world corruption index).
But sure, the fact the "bay of pigs" was discovered seems to prove things like this don't take place, yet you list Smedley of "war is a racket"?
Did anyone in the "intelligence community" or the military or the unelected bureaucrat class suffer any consequences whatsoever for the abject failures, wastes of money, and wastes of life known as "The Iraq War" and "The War in Afghanistan"?
> What was the last time an American citizen seriously worried about being invaded by a foreign power or attacked by a nation state? It just doesn't even occur to the average citizen that there are about a million people working to ensure Americans don't even have to think about not being attacked by foreign power.
Post 9/11, when American citizens rights were trampled in the name of "national seccuirty?
It is crazy you post what you did, stating you are a "senior DoD technology leader' and "know how it works".
So.. the "missile gap", real or imagined? If imagined, what was the purpose of allowing the US citizens to believe it was real?
U2 spy planes told the truth, US presidents did not.
Great example of what I was discussing above - you don't even know how the system works well enough to be able to analyze it. Here you have clumped the entire US government together as though it's "the military"
Anticipating your response - Everything snowden revealed was authorized under Title 50 which is NOT the military, it's the Intelligence Community. There is a difference between NSA and CSS which do different things. You can be military and work under Title 50 but with a pretty serious restrictions under EO-12333
With respect to the missile gap - it's well documented that Russia has had more nukes than anyone since at least the 70s [1]. Go look at the SALT treaty work and mutual inspections (now discontinued unfortunately) for more detail on how these estimates have changed over the years.
If you're looking to me to defend unethical politicians for lying or exaggerating you'll not find much content - however again nothing here is evidence of a consistent and coherent "cabal of people trying to scare the public" in a conspiracy to keep finding bad people. The USSR really had a huge and growing nuclear arsenal and wanted as badly as they could to beat the US at nukes. This isn't some made up bullshit like aliens.
I don't have the energy to break it down further at the moment.
"We are losing the satellite missile race with the Soviet Union," he noted, "because of complacent miscalculations, penny-pinching budget cutbacks, incredibly confused mismanagement and wasteful rivalries and jealousies." Once in office, when it was revealed that there was no gap and that, if anything, the US was ahead, he and his military advisors still had to deal with this issue.
I thought it might be interesting and fun at the outset to hear directly from President Kennedy as he discusses the missile gap with Secretary McNamara and others in a secretly recorded taped conversation in the Oval Office. The first voice you'll hear is Robert McNamara, followed by the President. We'll put a transcript on the screen to help you follow along.
McNamara: There was created a myth in the country that did great harm to the nation. It was created by, I would say, emotionally guided but nonetheless patriotic individuals in the Pentagon. There are still people of that kind in the Pentagon. I wouldn't give them any foundation for creating another myth.
JFK: [inaudible] that missile gap, as ones of those who put that myth around, a patriotic and misguided man [laughter]
I'm surprised that "combating UFOs" hasn't joined quantum computing, the metaverse, machine learning, self-driving cars, and crypto among the bullshit investment bubbles.
I bet there's a market in consulting with corporate executives to help them future-proof their enterprises against alien invasions.
Not even NFTs, where people were aggressively bidding against one another for a database entry confirming their ownership of a cartoon monkey on drugs? Not even quantum computing, where wall street is investing billions in quirky (quorky?) transistors that might maybe potentially crack a limited subset of cryptographic algorithms within the next several decades? Not even with self-driving cars, which are taking on the ultimate life-or-death task before machine learning can even reliably outperform a minimum wage laborer at heavily constrained and scripted tech support tasks?
Self driving cars are just a little early. They won’t work until gradually they will, which is a threshold we’re arguably already crossing. So it doesn’t really belong on the list. And machine learning is massively successful and growing. Otherwise it’s a pretty good list of bullshit.
Self-driving cars are the least obvious scam on the list, for sure.
The reason we appear so close is that well over 90% of driving is incredibly easy and can be performed without a sentient human being. This creates the impression that we're 90% there when we're nowhere near that close. We have decades of research to borrow from on this matter from drunk drivers, who are a perfect proxy for artificially intelligent machines attempting to drive automobiles without a sober human's fuzzy logic reasoning skills.
Both Big Tech and drunk drivers are very emboldened by that 90% of driving that doesn't require thinking and that 99% of driving that's not a life-or-death test of fuzzy logic reasoning skills.
I wouldn't put too much stock in politicians' quotes. Based on some of the congressional hearings, it's clear these folks don't understand even basic smartphone operations, I suspect most modern technology is unidentified phenomena for them. And looking foolish has never stopped them either.
This board is the most skeptic place I know of, so I have a question. How do the ones that accelerate at like 600 G's work? What's the power source and how is that energy being translated into propulsion? Also, why does the object not light up like meteor when it moves like this? I have doubts about the skeptic position when I hear these sorts of things.
What chain of evidence is needed if the actual people involved say they saw something? Their testimony is not open to dispute, you either believe they saw it or you believe they are liars. How would that account be tampered with? Anyway, according to all involved, there is infrared and radar that corroborates the eyewitness accounts. Of course the Navy has that classified, but interestingly, there is no official denial to say otherwise. I think I will believe these people until the service shows me a real reason not to.
Of course it's because eyewitness reports of even ordinary events are highly variable. They saw something; that can be true even as it's also true it wasn't what they reported. Nobody is lying.
In fact that 'false dilemma' is not a real argument at all. "You're either with us or against us!" "She criticised Capitalism; she must be a Communist!" "Marriage or career, a woman can't choose both!"
What does any of this have to do with having a "chain of evidence" involved? Chains of evidence (custody) are used to prove physical evidence wasn't tampered with by a malicious intermediary.
> In fact that 'false dilemma' is not a real argument at all. "You're either with us or against us!" "She criticised Capitalism; she must be a Communist!" "Marriage or career, a woman can't choose both!"
Infrared light blobs moved across the sky? There are so many way you can make far away, blurry objects and that’s without even starting to delve into post processing.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 207 ms ] threadAre you kidding? Dang and I have gotten into arguments on several occasions because I criticize this community too much, I've lost vouching permissions because I vouch for "controversial" comments, I'm not entirely certain my votes or flags work anymore, and my account has been rate limited for months.
The kind of poster you're talking about has a CV and lots of interesting stories to pull out of their pocket to balance out their sins, and the mods will beg and plead with them time and time again to follow the rules because they don't want to lose the quality of their content, regardless of how egregious their conduct is - but I'm definitely not that person.
But honestly, UFOs are a cover for the US military trying out Black projects on their own forces. If they can't figure out what it is, the Black project is working.
I was thinking the opposite. If the military cannot identify something (truly can't, not just saying they can't) then there is a serious gap in our sensor capabilities. If any entity needs to be able to identify objects, it's the military.
Funding secured.
Which coincidentally happen to be the two most highly intrumented naval test ranges in the world.
Ranges exist for two reasons: safely testing and monitoring shit.
There’s a reason Capt. Obvious was a sailor.
Looking at something like MK Ultra it is just a bunch of dudes doing shit by intuition and making massively dumb misstep’s. Unless things like that are just false flags to distract us from some hyper advanced and nefarious shadow govt we don’t know about.
It'd seem like a UFO compared to an F-16.
It does jive with history just fine.
If you think about our current technology it follows a pretty linear evolution going all the way back to steam engines, in that we are setting stuff on fire and catching the energy from it. We just have more efficient material and better energy capture. We would have had to surpass this modality for creating energy entirely to achieve the feats that some of these UFOs are performing. That would have massive implications for energy, transportation etc. This just doesn't make sense unless most of what we know about our government is some giant facade.
It's not clear what "that level of technology" even is. Mick West's analysis has convinced me that the videos the USN has publicly shown don't show any exotic capabilities.
Inb4 the usual response of "USN pilots are experts they know what they saw"
Experts can be mistaken. Experts can play pranks, participate in hoaxes, official disinformation schemes, etc.
> - They are extremely technologically advanced
No, that's not what the quotes say. None of the quotes I see says anything about the "technology" of UAPs. Only one of the quotes even uses the word "technology" and even that one is merely saying that "this isn't technology from foreign adversaries". That quote even leaves open the possibility that we're dealing with (say) natural weather phenomena, instrument problems, etc., let alone anything artificial.
If they think that lie will give the US military some sort of advantage against an adversary, of course they lie.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4axn8p/navy-says-all-ufo-vid...
UFO is commonly interpreted as alien spaceship but it really only means unidentified--and that could be a recon drone from China or the like.
[0] https://interestingengineering.com/culture/glomar-explorer-t...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
And at that point, I realized I had forgotten my waders, so I had to stop reading.
[1] https://josephsansone.substack.com/p/the-fake-alien-invasion...
- You'd need a way to send an "alien ship" into space, which would most likely involve Elon Musk and SpaceX
- This would be an absolutely massive operation. You'd need to keep it quiet. So either you're doing the vast amount of work with a super-AI that hasn't been announced yet (OpenAI, perhaps), or you'd have to figure out how to keep thousands of people from leaking the details. This would require a massive army of people, completely loyal to the cause.
- As there will be a bunch of people who don't believe the story, you'd need the willpower and inhumanity to kill them. But I imagine that someone invested in this story believes there is an army out there willing to do this for "the cause".
- The bitcoin thing is a bit out-of-left-field, but I guess that they want to ban Bitcoin because it's decentralized, and not Ethereum because it is "controlled" by Vitalik (who is in on this conspiracy?). They'd be doing this under the guise of energy savings, but instead just taking control of a traceable cryptocurrency.
This explains why so many conspiracy-minded folk are anti-mask and anti-vax. They likely see it as "conditioning" to do whatever is necessary for the world to survive (gradually escalating compliance?). So perhaps we are part of this army that is being raised to improve the world.
It's amusing to think about what would be required for this conspiracy, but alas I have not been sent my invitation to join the secret WEF army yet. Or is that what someone who _was_ invited would say?
I'm getting e-mails every week that invite me to join the Illuminati. Maybe I should not be sending them to spam? :)
I understand the utilitarian logic of it, but it still strikes me as pretty disgusting... there are people who actually believe this crap, and I don't think they're mentally better off for it.
Yes it did, I've actually seen a CI op get blown after being picked up by domestic media - months of hard work abandoned the instant Popular Science decided to write, at length, about some gee-wiz military tech - without actually doing any kind of investigation. Say what you will about the CIA and the rest of the USG, but the DoD actually makes a pretty serious effort to follow not only the letter of the law - but the spirit of the law.
* The CIA and NSA conduct mass surveillance of the American public, contrary to the law [1] [2]
* The CIA maintains illegal black sites with systematic torture [3]
* The CIA made a request to execute a false flag against american citizens to start war with Cuba [4]
* The CIA executes illegal assassinations and other covert operations [5]
* The Pentagon has presided over many illegal wars and war crimes [6] [7]
[1] https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/how-...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
[3] https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/guantanamo-transcripts-g...
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
[5] https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/12/21/do-we-need-...
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
[7] https://www.resistance.org/illegal-us-wars
Apparently by complaining about the CIA... which very solidly rooted in the unaccountable civilian "steady state". The NSA, while technically military, is run by civilian private contractors at the pleasure of the civilian executive branch. The major role military personnel play is to press the enter key, kicking off hacking scripts they didn't write, because we don't want Booz Allen Hamilton directly committing potential acts of war. Finally you end your response with an example of the military actually enforcing the law against transgressors within its ranks... so not a very logical response.
That spark, in turn, can be moved around freely and emits all sorts of RF noise.
Source: worked in a femtosecond laser lab
China is still incapable of building complex home grown avionics and more importantly propulsive systems.
When you are still reliant on licensing jet engines you probably aren’t flying nearly physics breaking aircraft.
EW is a possibility however sensor spoofing still requires an asset near by and one with a lot of on board power.
Many of those incidents weren’t where Russia or China could realistically deploy assets too.
Right now the most plausible scenario (other than sensor artifacts and delusions) is that it’s either the US themselves doing it in secret or the private sector they are the only ones with the means to really test systems like the ones observed so far.
There will always be some blurry / ambiguous photos. The fact that no sharp pictures show alien spacecraft means that blurriness is the phenomenon.
As long as there are slow news days, media outlets make a big deal out of blotches and blobs, and we as a public continue to fall for that.
The fact is we should expect a certain amount of false positives. So the real question is do we see more of these cases than we’d probably get anyway.
The problem is: it takes much more effort to investigate (and possibly debunk) each of these occurrences than to shout "UFO! UAP!".
It always reminds of the rule of bullshit: it takes 10x more effort to debunk bullshit than to produce it. Thus if you don't want to be tangled up in believing lots of bullshit, you have to develop a certain resistance to it.
We as a public have not developed that certain resistance to uncertainty in observations, and still jump on them, thinking this time it could really be aliens.
>It's not just blurry photos. There are also military pilot sightings corroborated with radar and FLIR
Can you link to specific incidents? All the ones I'm aware of are all pretty blurry/ambiguous. That makes sense, considering that if there was a high quality photo of an alien aircraft, it would be a settled matter and we won't have to speculate on an internet forum about whether they exist or not.
Also pilots have been reporting seeing UFOs for nearly 100 years, arguably this is one of the first times we have some sensor data to back visual reports.
While the "war on terror" seems to be dying down, what about the good old standby enemies (Russia and China)?
They just sold 1.2 billion dollars in military hardware to Taiwan, they can milk this for another 5 years at a minimum.
I cant wait for the news stories in the future.
The UFO's have a "interstellar space ship gap" or some other real or imagined "gap" we need to close.
The problem here though, is that the interstellar space aliens are smart enough to have sightings in every state, therefore insuring wide spread political support for additional funding
We just need some kind of narrative to trick politicians and world leaders into doing something useful instead of war.
Obviously they are not going to advocate building interstellar space flight simply because some "UFO" has it.
The gap between how the government runs in actual practice, and how citizens think it runs is so large that I'm not sure we can even communicate coherently about it
Never once has Raytheon or any other defense company tried to make me or any other PEO, acquisitions or contracting officer buy something by generating some fake scare in an attempt to make me or anyone who can actually spend money on behalf of the DoD do so (hint, there's not that many people who can actually approve real money).
People think there is some conspiracy to just grow our military for it's own sake - in fact it's almost always at the behest of a foreign partner that needs defense and is asking for the DoD to come and help them (usually via treaty or NATO request).
The reason the DoD and the US IC grows is because we are literally protecting the economic freedom of MOST of the world because they explicitly ask us to protect them. It is in our best interest to protect those who ask because the more people who are our partners and allies, the more we can increase trade and promote our way of life. Whether you think that is good or bad is up to you. However there is no secret government cabal sitting around trying to figure out some new fake reason to scare the population. There's more than enough scary things that you aren't dealing with on a daily basis because
What was the last time an American citizen seriously worried about being invaded by a foreign power or attacked by a nation state? It just doesn't even occur to the average citizen that there are about a million people working to ensure Americans don't even have to think about not being attacked by foreign power. This is true for every major nation state with a significant defense presence.
Except when there is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
> The proposals called for CIA operatives to both stage and actually commit acts of terrorism against American military and civilian targets, blaming them on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba. The possibilities detailed in the document included the remote control of civilian aircraft which would be secretly a repainted US Air Force plane,[2] the possible assassination of Cuban immigrants, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas,[3] blowing up a U.S. ship, and orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.[2] The proposals were rejected by President John F. Kennedy.
It is true that unethical people have tried to do illegal things in the past. Gen Lemnitzer was fired as JCS and nothing ever came of it. How about when a group of traitors tried to get Gen Smedley Butler to run a coup in the Business plot?
There are always going to be people trying to seek power. The ENTIRE REASON we are structured the way we are with civilian politicians and civilian head of the DoD who are there at the will of the people is to prevent such situations and so far we've done a good job at rooting them out.
All this proves is that we need the best most ethical people running the show and it actually is important that you, the citizen, is involved in putting the right people in charge. So are you doing everything you can for your country to make sure that the best people are in charge and most importantly the functions of the system continue to act as checks on the others? Are you doing that? Have you done public service in ANY capacity? If so great, keep it up and maybe think about what you could be doing to make your system more robust and reducing similar risks.
If it did not exist, why was the dumb idea put forward? why the need to invade Cuba? Why all the other underhanded involvement in other countries over the years?
Then you list other examples of such nefarious behaviours?
Thankfully the US government does not have a serious problem with lobbying, corruption (number 27 on the world corruption index).
But sure, the fact the "bay of pigs" was discovered seems to prove things like this don't take place, yet you list Smedley of "war is a racket"?
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/military/kil...
Post 9/11, when American citizens rights were trampled in the name of "national seccuirty?
It is crazy you post what you did, stating you are a "senior DoD technology leader' and "know how it works".
So.. the "missile gap", real or imagined? If imagined, what was the purpose of allowing the US citizens to believe it was real?
U2 spy planes told the truth, US presidents did not.
Anticipating your response - Everything snowden revealed was authorized under Title 50 which is NOT the military, it's the Intelligence Community. There is a difference between NSA and CSS which do different things. You can be military and work under Title 50 but with a pretty serious restrictions under EO-12333
With respect to the missile gap - it's well documented that Russia has had more nukes than anyone since at least the 70s [1]. Go look at the SALT treaty work and mutual inspections (now discontinued unfortunately) for more detail on how these estimates have changed over the years.
If you're looking to me to defend unethical politicians for lying or exaggerating you'll not find much content - however again nothing here is evidence of a consistent and coherent "cabal of people trying to scare the public" in a conspiracy to keep finding bad people. The USSR really had a huge and growing nuclear arsenal and wanted as badly as they could to beat the US at nukes. This isn't some made up bullshit like aliens.
I don't have the energy to break it down further at the moment.
[1] https://fas.org/issues/nuclear-weapons/status-world-nuclear-...
https://www.jfklibrary.org/events-and-awards/forums/past-for...
"We are losing the satellite missile race with the Soviet Union," he noted, "because of complacent miscalculations, penny-pinching budget cutbacks, incredibly confused mismanagement and wasteful rivalries and jealousies." Once in office, when it was revealed that there was no gap and that, if anything, the US was ahead, he and his military advisors still had to deal with this issue.
I thought it might be interesting and fun at the outset to hear directly from President Kennedy as he discusses the missile gap with Secretary McNamara and others in a secretly recorded taped conversation in the Oval Office. The first voice you'll hear is Robert McNamara, followed by the President. We'll put a transcript on the screen to help you follow along.
McNamara: There was created a myth in the country that did great harm to the nation. It was created by, I would say, emotionally guided but nonetheless patriotic individuals in the Pentagon. There are still people of that kind in the Pentagon. I wouldn't give them any foundation for creating another myth.
JFK: [inaudible] that missile gap, as ones of those who put that myth around, a patriotic and misguided man [laughter]
Hmm.....
I bet there's a market in consulting with corporate executives to help them future-proof their enterprises against alien invasions.
You're all in on all that?
The reason we appear so close is that well over 90% of driving is incredibly easy and can be performed without a sentient human being. This creates the impression that we're 90% there when we're nowhere near that close. We have decades of research to borrow from on this matter from drunk drivers, who are a perfect proxy for artificially intelligent machines attempting to drive automobiles without a sober human's fuzzy logic reasoning skills.
Both Big Tech and drunk drivers are very emboldened by that 90% of driving that doesn't require thinking and that 99% of driving that's not a life-or-death test of fuzzy logic reasoning skills.
We have highdef cameras in every pocket now - let's see a real 4k video of one.
In fact that 'false dilemma' is not a real argument at all. "You're either with us or against us!" "She criticised Capitalism; she must be a Communist!" "Marriage or career, a woman can't choose both!"
> In fact that 'false dilemma' is not a real argument at all. "You're either with us or against us!" "She criticised Capitalism; she must be a Communist!" "Marriage or career, a woman can't choose both!"
Seriously, are you drunk?
That was pretty clearly the false argument, and has no place in a rational discussion.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/4axn8p/navy-says-all-ufo-vid...