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mmastrac
In a banana republic, you can "formally" do whatever you want, without internal repercussions. Whether the rest of the world recognizes what you want to do outside of your borders is a big question.

In this particular case, they may as well say that they are annexing Germany.

brnt
Although the situation is thoroughly not funny, because the idea that a foreign power would organise referenda in jurisdictions they don't legally and not even defacto control is so ludicrous, a Dutch comic organised a referendum for the annexation of Russia by the Netherlands. Please vote! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVv3ofeBnME
yucky
I seem to remember we "oversaw" a number of referenda in Afghanistan and Iraq during our years of occupation. I don't think that makes it right, but it probably doesn't give us a leg to stand on.
brnt
Where there any? I don't recall.

If there were, I wager they not held with a weeks notice, without any involvement of local authorities while 80% of the population was on the run and the other 20% being terrorized in quite the way Ukrainians are in the occupied territories.

gdy
All the elections in Iraq that happened before 2011 while Iraq was occupied by the US [0]. And all of Afghan elections.

But of course referendums in the Ukraine are a joke given that big part of population fled the war.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Iraq

decebalus1
Not sure if it's the same thing here. The US didn't attempt to turn Afghanistan or Irak into a US state, have them fly the "Old Glory" and their kids recite the pledge of allegiance when school starts.
yucky
Those symbols don't matter to international capital.
rolph
in case anybody missed out, annexation is a nessecary precursor, to veiling a "tactical" nuclear option as legitimate
highwaylights
This. He really wants to use a nuke. Not least he needs to show the world they work and remind everyone that he has them to use whenever he wants.

I believe he will use one on the Ukrainians.

If we get to the other side of this those Star Wars plans might warrant a dusting off.

chmaynard
This should be grounds for removal from the UN Security Council, but I doubt that it is.
[dead] mediumsmart
marshray
Typical Russian rhetoric which can only attempt to whatabout and equivocate with events of 60+ years ago that aren't even comparable.

(E.g. Hawaii had been a US territory since 1898, whereas Ukraine is formally recognized as a fully sovereign and independent country by the whole world including Russia.)

> Washington and NATO have shot their wad and have no credible conventional military force to counter Russia

Lol.

drekk
Are you so sure it's only whataboutism? The US and UK intelligence agencies supported Vladimir Putin's bid for power since they viewed him as the most effective person to crackdown on communism. [0] It's not what-aboutism when your actions brought about the thing you're criticizing. People are right to point out the hypocrisy and question the motives of any state department, including (but especially) their own.

If you want more recent examples, how about Iraq and Afghanistan? Exactly how long did that referendum provisional government last after the US withdrew? Also I'm sorry, was the shelling of the Donbas 60 years ago? I don't follow your insinuation that the US/UK haven't repeated the same mistakes since Vietnam

[0] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mi6-regrets-helping-vladi...

rat87
The bombing of Donbas is going on right now. Russia destroyed Marioupol (part of the Donbas) and has severely damaged many Ukranian cities.
nradov
So what? In the real world no one cares about those issues. The US will continue supporting Ukraine as long as they're willing to keep fighting. The more Russian soldiers they kill, the safer that makes the rest of the civilized world.
boeingUH60
> Washington and NATO have shot their wad and have no credible conventional military force to counter Russia accepting the results of the referenda.

This is funny..given the awful performance of the Russian military that we’re witnessing.

I mean, nuclear weapons barred, it’s now clear that NATO militaries led by the US can mop the floor with Russia’s military.

yucky
>It has watched the west play the mute during the last 8 years while the democratically elected President of Ukraine was forced from office (with the active backing of UK and US officials) and while Ukraine subsequently killed thousands of men, women and children in the Donbas. The west was quite clear–it did not care.

It's not accurate to say the west didn't care. We cared, we're the ones that financed and fomented it.[0][1][2][3] And for what?

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

[1] https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go...

[2] https://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/02/27/cheering-democ...

[3] https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/event/2014-coup-ukraine

rat87
A bunch of conspiratorial nonsense. We didn't ferment it and it wasn't a coup. The Ukranians weren't happy that the president was killing protesters. Why do these things always pretend that Ukrainians don't have agency?
AzzieElbab
Russia is losing the war. Annexation is pretext for using nukes to stop Ukraines advance. Despite being a kleptocratic dictatorship Russia is strangely oriented around laws and procedures. This gives them an excuse to act in according with Russias military doctrine which states that nukes can be used when Russian territory is under attack.
nradov
This annexation is certainly an escalation, but I'm skeptical whether it's a pretext for nuclear strikes. Tactical nuclear weapons are mainly useful for knocking out military bases and troop concentrations. At this point the Ukrainian army is well dispersed and dug in, often in close combat with Russian forces where the risk of fratricide would be high. Russia could use strategic nuclear weapons against Ukrainian population centers in an attempt to break their will to fight, but Putin has to know that would foreclose any possible option for ever resuming normal trade relations with the EU and many other countries. He's getting desperate, but I don't think he's that stupid.
AzzieElbab
Whether they use nukes or not cannot be known. They are just telling themselves and the world that their hands are untied
rat87
I don't think it's likely that he will use nukes but it's part of the strategy to threaten to use nukes
sul_tasto
I wonder if it’s a way for him to claim victory before ending the operation. Maybe it’s a way out.
rat87
Not really because there's no way that Ukraine is going to allow these areas to remain in Russian and hands. Especially given atrocities they've seen in places they've recaptured. Especially since they're clearly winning
_kbh_
But it really isn’t anymore of a justification then Russia has had for months to use nukes in Ukraine.

Since the start of the war, Ukraine has hit.

- Belgorod (Russian land) multiple times with both missiles and helicopters

- Crimea (Russian occupied “annexed” land) multiple times destroying aircraft at multiple airfields

- Rostov (Russian land) a oil refinery was set on fire by kamikaze drones

The only difference now is that Russia is decisively loosing the war.

[dead] samketchup
noduerme
The choices on the ballot were to join Russia or wait a year and then join Russia. If you have armed men come to your house and tell you to sign a piece of paper, that's not a vote.

The purpose of the exercise is not even to attempt a legalistic show of unity. Its only purpose is to mock the very concept of voting, freedom, self determination, a future of anything other than state terrorism.

kranke155
The west ? There’s camera footage showing soldiers going to peoples homes with the “voting” papers.
diimdeep
Please watch[1] Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov's remarks, you will understand that according to UN principles it is not annexation, but people own self-determination.

[1] https://youtu.be/1h8fFzMpnlw?t=936