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Not a software company : Manager hitting on his employee, what should I do?

3 points by anydden ↗ HN
I have a college who was out with his team in a party, the manager was talking to her entire party and then started trying to hit on her and even touch her, kept getting her drink, my friend tried to move but he again moved to her, one of the guy sepetated them, now when I asked my friend what happened last night she doesn’t remember any thing , what should I do ?

20 comments

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LinuxBender
Document the times, what happened, entirely without any emotion. Just facts. Make a judgement call whether you trust that managers boss to handle the situation or not. If not then HR would be the correct answer. Just know that nobody will be happy. Not the manager, not their boss or those above them and likely not the victim if they did not want any drama or fallout from the event. HR protect companies, not people so be ready for management to handle this poorly if you decide to intervene. Have you asked your friend what they would like to see happen? They may say they do not remember because they do not want you to do anything unless they were drinking very heavily and truly do not remember. Did anyone else witness this and are they willing to take action? There is power in numbers.
anydden
She was unable to walk so certainly not in her senses. But that also I doubt how can she get so drunk that she can’t walk , did he give something to her
LinuxBender
so drunk that she can’t walk

So hammered. Maybe she legit does not recall and that is where witnesses other than yourself are important.

did he give something to her

Tox screening at the time might have been able to tell but as time passes so do chemicals. If it was Rohypnol she would not have been able to respond to you. Rohypnol will stay in the system for 72 hours. Be very sensitive if she is your friend and you plan to talk to her about this. Hopefully someone trust-worthy gave her a ride home.

anydden
She talked to me next day so I guess she was ok, how should I talk to her ?
LinuxBender
Express concern. Avoid challenging what she says, just listen and pay attention. If she wishes to not talk about it then move on. Let her know you are willing to be there to help if she wants help. Encourage her to get a toxicology screening if you suspect her drink was spiked. Ensure she is entirely in control. Let her decide the right path.
anydden
Should I tell her your manager was hitting on you ?
LinuxBender
and then started trying to hit on her and even touch her

Should I tell her your manager was hitting on you ?

Hitting on someone is heavy flirting. Flirting does not involve touching, especially if that person is your subordinate. Either way that is a power conflict. Just tell her what you told us, just the facts. If she wants your help then find out if anyone else witnessed what happened.

To clarify this is if she is your friend. If just a colleague then just talk to HR and let them sort it out.

anydden
I don’t know if the touch were sexual but I do remember he took her to somewhere , I don’t know for how long but then he came back with her, can’t be too far or even outside I probably think washroom but I don’t know if he has guts to go to female washroom as that will be too much in office party
anydden
She was on a vacation just after the party , she said she felt safe because she doesn’t remember anything that happened ,
LinuxBender
I should add for clarification that even if they spoke to the persons manager, they would be obligated to go to HR regardless. Both routes lead to HR. Also I am not a lawyer. Review the laws in your state or let HR sort it out. Bring witnesses.
jelavich
Tell him to stop or Fire him
aintmeit
Aggression happens in clusters. Let's say you, your boss,xand your coworkers can be considered a group. Sexual assault is not the only thing you should expect. Abusive arguments, physical fights, backstabbing, and possibly even manslaughter. I mean literal manslaughter, as in someone dies and law enforcement is involved. What can you do? Pretty much nothing.
anydden
What do you mean ? I should not raise this to anyone ?
aintmeit
This group was always prone to violence. Raising this to anyone might just explode the level of violence tenfold.
JamesVI
Like LinuxBender said, document everything.

You don't say where this happened; local laws and customs will prevail. In California (for example) most companies will require you to report sexual harassment (which is what you are describing). If you (or coworkers) see it and say nothing you can be fired for failing to report when it eventually gets out (which it will).

Write down everything you know personally and everything that you have been told. Take it all immediately to HR. Don't ask your colleague what they want to do, and don't take this to the manager's boss.

HR will talk to your colleague. If they say nothing happened, or that they welcomed the attention, then either the manager or the employee will be reassigned so there isn't any real or perceived power imbalance and they can continue to do whatever they both want. If your colleague says that the manager got them drunk, or made unwanted advances then HR will follow the necessary process (involving the manager's manager) to terminate the manager.

I've managed teams in California, and I'm currently in a long-term relationship with a former co-worker, so I've navigated these waters from both sides.

anydden
Should I talk to the colleague ?
JamesVI
At this point I would say no,

Document and hand off to HR. If the colleague comes to you and asks if you reported to HR then you can be honest and say you did because you were concerned for their well-being.

Talking to them doesn't really help them. It forces them to decide if they want to endorse you talking to HR or to claim it was "no big deal". HR is (supposed to be) trained to deal with this kind of situation and should be better equipped to decide how to proceed.

anydden
But that would be too much right ? I don’t have any proof that it was harassment , could be just normal drinks I also offered her one , but this guy was certainly trying to touch her shoulder hold her hand , and call out her name multiple times
JamesVI
The situation you witnessed and heard about made you sufficiently uncomfortable to create a throw-away account to ask HN for advice. That level of discomfort is sufficient to report it to HR. For all you know there have been other complaints made in the past and this incident will complete a picture of a pattern of troubling behavior.

It isn't your responsibility to gather proof or to make a career-impacting decision about these two people, that's for HR, legal and senior management to deal with, and they have the tools and processes to actual investigate. (Check your employee handbook, companies I have worked for in the past require employees to cooperate with HR investigations and refusing to comply can lead to termination). If there really wasn't any problem then HR will take no action (they don't want to get sued for wrongly terminating a manager either).

chasil
First question: what repercussions are you yourself willing to suffer?

If few, then quietly advise.

If more, then report to HR, if HR is objective.

The more episodes with documentation, the better.