Ask HN: Planning for Parenthood
I'm probably 10 years away from starting a family. I want it to be very intentional and give my children the best life I can.
I want to take advantage of genetic screening or even enhancement if it's available at that time.
I think I'd like to have a nanny so that my partner and I can both work and avoid burning out on the more difficult physical aspects of infants.
I want to provide an excellent education whether that is public or private, traditional or nontraditional.
Thoughts? Online resources or communities? What can I take into consideration between now and then?
12 comments
[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 14.2 ms ] threadFull disclosure: I have raised 5 children.
Having children before you get old makes sense. Pregnancy and childbirth get harder on women as they get older, and some evidence shows that sperm quality decreases with age. Nature has optimized us to reproduce while still young. Why wait ten years? If you think an infant will burn you out now it won't get easier in ten years.
Screening for defects and diseases makes sense to reduce those risks. Enhancement seems unlikely given the ten-year horizon, and likely a bad idea even if/when available.
Why have a child when you plan to have strangers (nanny, schools) do most of the work?
Regardless of all of your plans and precautions, when you bring a child into the world you have responsibility for but not real control over that new person. You don't get to make them into something you want or can plan for. Children have their own personalities and eventually their own wants and desires and plans. A big part of the fun of raising children comes from watching that new person grow and take shape. Parents who try to raise children according to their own ideas and dreams face conflict and disappointment.
Your plan seems to take all the joy and wonder out of having a child and parenting. Some things merit the "very intentional" approach, but relationships and children don't fit that category for me. If you want that kind of control and tentative relationship on your terms, get aquarium fish.
> Why wait ten years? If you think an infant will burn you out now it won't get easier in ten years.
Will be in my 30, and will have accomplished more and have more resources.
> Why have a child when you plan to have strangers (nanny, schools) do most of the work?
Did you homeschool?
I don't see what makes changing diapers or keeping infants from killing themselves a very enriching way of spending energy.
I'm interested in the dinner conversations, weekend activities and holidays, and in nurturing a child's imagination, creativity and character.
> Regardless of all of your plans and precautions... Children have their own personalities and eventually their own wants and desires and plans. A big part of the fun of raising children comes from watching that new person grow and take shape... Your plan seems to take all the joy and wonder out of having a child and parenting. Some things merit the "very intentional" approach, but relationships and children don't fit that category for me.
I think you're reading into what I've said, quite a bit.
Just because I don't control the growth of a tomato plant, doesn't mean I don't want to design its soil, sun exposure, and hydration conditions to the best of my abilities.
Thanks again
> Did you homeschool?
> I don't see what makes changing diapers or keeping infants from killing themselves a very enriching way of spending energy.
> I'm interested in the dinner conversations, weekend activities and holidays, and in nurturing a child's imagination, creativity and character.
With respect, I think you're thinking about this wrong.
The menial tasks of caring for a child (diapers, cleaning, clothing, feeding, etc) are the structure within which you develop a bond, a relationship with the individual. It changes both of you, and by avoiding it, you also eliminate the thousands of moments that build that relationship between parent and child.
As your child grows, those tasks evolve: playing Lego, drawing, listening to their stories, playing dumb video games, taking them to soccer/swimming/music lessons/etc. Lots of stuff that's basically not what you'd really rather be doing, save that your kid wants to do it. Avoiding them again misses an opportunity to be a part of who your child becomes.
Now, this is not to say you need do _everything_. A kid benefits from relationships with family, as well as teachers, coaches, older kids, peers, etc. They learn how to make and maintain friendships, how to be both independent but also open to sharing. That can obviously include a nanny, or daycare providers -- everyone's choices are different, and depend on the child's own needs as well.
But I'd really encourage you to look beyond the dirty diapers, the vomit, the dribble, the food stain on your work clothes, the 3 hours of sleep. There's a lot more to the process than what's visible, and in my experience, it's important, profound, and well worth it.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I will talk to my parent friends and get their perspective on this.
> Did you homeschool?
Yes, all three, though two went to school at middle/high-school age because most of their friends went to school. Technically we unschooled our kids and let them choose their own interests. They participated in the family and the adult world from day one. Montessori is probably the closest to homeschooling if you want to outsource, but I think having my kids around and part of our daily life was rewarding for everyone.
> I don't see what makes changing diapers or keeping infants from killing themselves a very enriching way of spending energy.
That’s a very limited view of raising a child. I would only expect to hear that from someone who hasn’t had children. As another commenter wrote, you miss out on so much bonding and joy with your child if think of infants and toddlers as merely puppies who need more house-training. What kind of imagination and creativity do you suppose your child will have, or share with you, if you had someone else raise them during the crucial early years? Children learn from the people around them, from birth.
You can try to control conditions all you want. Your posts imply that you view raising a child as an exercise in optimizing for an outcome. Children are human beings with their own personalities and wills. They don’t work like tomato plants.
I am very interested in unschooling. Can you point to any resources that were helpful to you?
> Your posts imply that you view raising a child as an exercise in optimizing for an outcome
Again, you're putting me into a box a bit. You clearly made choices in how you were raising your children, which means you were satisfying some constraints.
Obviously there is no global maximum, or even a fully ordered set of conditions. Nevertheless, like anyone ought to, I'm considering what conditions I'd like to create.
> What kind of imagination and creativity do you suppose your child will have, or share with you, if you had someone else raise them during the crucial early years? Children learn from the people around them, from birth.
I will take this into consideration, thanks.
Well, yes, over time. At first we just wanted a child. We didn't have any plan. As a parent you have to make it up as you go -- the experience of other parents only goes so far. Before long I understood that I was dealing with an autonomous person, not someone I could mold or shape. Parents tend to overestimate the control and influence they have, which leads to conflict especially in the teen years and sometimes long into adulthood. I have friends my own age (past 60) who still resent their parents forcing them to play sports or go to violin lessons or sit through math tutoring.
You can find plenty of resources for homeschooling. I think of unschooling as a form of homeschooling. Traditional homeschoolers use a curriculum and try to duplicate at least some of the forms and rituals of traditional school at home. Unschoolers don't follow any curriculum, and involve their kids in the "real world" of adults rather than confining them in school or a simulation of it. The majority of homeschoolers in America do it for religious reasons, though you can find secular homeschooling groups in every city.
Some resources:
How Children Learn and How Children Fail by John Holt.
The Seven Lesson Schoolteacher by John Taylor Gatto (online) https://www.wanderings.net/notebook/Main/SevenLessonsTaughtI...
Dumbing Us Down and Weapons of Mass Destruction by John Taylor Gatto.
Deschooling Society by Ivan Illich.
The Unschooled Mind by Howard Gardner.
Anything by Maria Montessori.
We kind of fell backwards into it. Our first child went to Montessori school at first, she loved it. Then we moved and couldn't find a Montessori school that had openings (many have long waiting lists), so we enrolled her in public school. After a few weeks she got in trouble for reading a book in class "above her grade level" according to the teacher. She was in second grade reading a Nancy Drew book, bored waiting for the other kids to learn how to read. She cried about going to school after that because the teacher shamed her in class. So we didn't make her go and let her do her own thing. We told the school we planned to move, they never followed up. She went on to (easily) get a high school diploma and went to college. We didn't send our next two kids to school but left the option open, they decided to go later but mainly because of their friends.
We gradually found out about organized homeschooling groups and joined those, which led to lots of opportunities for sharing ideas and letting the kids socialize and play.
It helped that I was able to support all of us so my wife didn't have to work at a job, she did most of the work handling the kids. Unfortunately homeschooling only makes sense for middle- and upper-middle-class families who don't need school to provide day care while they work two jobs. We knew families with stay-at-home dads, and couples who had flexible jobs that allowed them to alternate. I came to believe that kids should have a parent around as much as possible, as a role model and person to answer questions, which is why I objected in the first place to the idea of hiring a nanny or sending kids to school.