Ask HN: How are you, a dev/programmer, preparing for the probable recession?

36 points by sidcool ↗ HN
How are you preparing mentally, financially and otherwise? How are you dealing with the anxiety of ever increasing news about lay offs and rescinded offers? What can very senior Devs do to remain relevant and sane? What else?

50 comments

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I work in mining, as long as the price of gold and iron stays relatively good, I'm not too phased.
Gold is one of the few areas which should do very well.
Honestly even though it fluctuates, Iron Ore is also an industry that is always pretty recession resistant so long as you're not a low level grunt
Gold has likely lost its place as a store of value.

Its value came as a somewhat rare, status consumption good. But today, gold is much less important as a status consumption good. As India modernizes its banking/financial industry I expect to see gold prices fall with a glut of supply.

> Gold has likely lost its place as a store of value.

So what is its replacement as a store of value that is broadly trusted?

Stocks, bonds, real-estate etc.

Total world gold is like 10T$ vs total world assets of 450T$ ish.

What would you rather hold? A claim on future returns from a factory making chips or a shiny metal with minimal industrial use that certain primates horde?

The horders can only supply then economy with a shiny metal. The chip factory can supply it with chips that run cars, trains, financial systems, street lights etc.

I think you mean "fazed"
I moved to a company with a ton of profit from a company in the red / a “growth company”. Started working nights and weekends on startups. Moved to all home cooked meals. Cut unnecessary spending and looking into more investments. Doubled down on being and staying in shape.
> probable recession

Not to be pedantic, but we're already in a recession, defined by a fall in GDP in two successive quarters. What's coming for the US and EU, given bad debt levels and inflation levels, is much, much worse than that.

To your question: I would say, look for roles at organizations which are likely to ride out the storm. I think you can't be overly cautious (in all financial aspects) for the next years.

If you want to get really pedantic the US is not officially in recession until the NBER says so [1].

[1] https://www.bea.gov/help/glossary/recession

At least, according to the NBER.
How can economists say, for instance, Argentina is in a recession? Or Ireland? Or Australia?

Does the NBER make such determinations for all countries? Ha.

Are you being pedantic por are you being gullible?

The term recession has been well-defined in economics for decades.

> The term recession has been well-defined in economics for decades.

It's been so thoroughly defined, that there are even multiple conflicting definitions.

Which is all to avoid having to admit you're in a recession to avoid the self-fulfilling prophecy aspects of that.

Economists, of course, have a lot of pressure sometimes to avoid speaking the truth, lest they exacerbate the situation. I get that.

Again, I'm not concerned that we're "going into a recession." I'm concerned that we're going into a depression, or decades of stagflation, or war.

Buying more gpus
This might actually work out as a strategy considering what happened after last generation of GPUs were released.
Financially, I moved from the EU to South East Asia, decreasing cost of living by 70-80%. Additionally, just before I moved I was able to get a position with a 50% increase in pay. I'm saving a lot of money here, and locally am investing it into quite a few ventures which would continue to exist if the worlds economy would go south.

Mentally & physically, I am taking beatings, right and left, every day, doing martial arts, a lot of running and swimming. I think, when the hard times come around, I'll be conditioned enough by always being tired and sore, that its just going to be a walk in the park. Anxiety wise.... since I moved here, and started doing all these things, its the first period in my life where I feel almost completely anxiety free.

Do you have suggestions for finding jobs that support this kind of work arrangement? For example, do the jobs advertise themselves as 100% remote from the beginning, or is that something you negotiated with them during the interview process? Also, how do you deal with the time difference?
I'm in a similar situation (European, getting paid US rates, living in SEA) and for me it's been freelance all the way. I'm earning enough that I save way more than I would back home, I have an amazing quality of life, and I don't have to work non-stop. When a freelance project ends, I work on my own stuff for a while, or travel. I've been working on a project for about a year now and it'll end soon. During that time I've easily saved up enough to live for... maybe 5 years here if I went super basic. But at least 3 with my normal lifestyle. Not counting holidays back home which would cut into my savings a lot.

I'm not planning to take 5 years off, I'm gonna take a few months to work on my own projects, then a vacation for a month or two since I haven't been home since before covid. Hopefully one of my own projects will start to earn me some money and I'll work on growing that, but if it doesn't I'll probably start looking for more freelance work at around the 6 month mark.

It's not all roses, there's visa issues, tax compliance is essentially impossible (although I do have a visa that allows me to work) and I do sometimes struggle with the culture here, as much as I love other parts of it (so not much different to home there I guess).

But, on the other hand, as someone who grew up poor, this level of financial security is almost impossible to believe. I can just... Take 6 months off work. Or a year even. And not have to worry about money. I feel free in a way that I never have before. I know this is privilege and I acknowledge that and try to ensure I don't abuse it.

> few ventures which would continue to exist if the worlds economy would go south.

What kind of venture is profitable (enough to beat inflation) and economy-going-south resistant?

I'm interested in knowing this too.
> I think, when the hard times come around, I'll be conditioned enough by always being tired and sore, that its just going to be a walk in the park.

What do you think is going to happen? Mass civil unrest?

No real prediction, but economically we are definitely in one of the largest downtrends of the recent past. And I somehow doubt that we are trending towards avoiding even worse or getting a happy ending.
What does everyone think about investing in Paladium and other rare earth metals?

NOTE: via legit markets, not the catalytic converter black market.

I'm probably an outlier, but I just... haven't? I grew up extraordinarily poor and spent the first few years of my adult life working low-paying jobs while teaching myself to code until I've gotten to where I am now. I feel incredibly and unbelievably blessed to have "made it" relative to where I, my family, and any of my peers would have ever previously thought possible. This, I think, has also changed how I view potential economic hardship.

If the recession does get bad, so what? I don't have a family to support. I don't have many financial obligations aside from rent and my car payment. I could survive on a retail or fast-food job if I had to.

I feel as if we've been warned of a looming recession for years now. It'll come in full force eventually, no doubt. But I don't plan on living my life in a perpetual state of fear because of it. I have enough anxiety as is. When it comes, it comes. I'll survive. I'll retain my current skill set. I'll make it out the other end. Not much else matters to me.

I’m not worried about any recession because after growing up poor to some degree I always feel like things could collapse for me at any moment.

What can you do to truly guarantee one’s safety? I just want to work on computers.

Wow, so much this. I literally got my dream job this year and I’m just amazed I get to freaking _program computers_ every day. Like what??? It’s been 7 months and I still don’t believe it.

Life really could’ve turned out totally different. But I feel that same sense that nothing is ever really guaranteed/secure. So, why not relish the good things while I have them, try my best, and follow my own path?

Similar here. Grew up middle class, but there weren't really any jobs when I graduated. Malaysia just had bare basics PHP jobs until the app wave came in. Back in the day, it paid worse than fast food jobs. It was only until the startups and the first unicorns that the money came in, and programming for a living was a viable career. I'm actually quite grateful and flattered to be paying taxes instead of back then when I needed government aid to buy a baby car seat.

It looks like many unicorns are dying, and that could cause a shockwave, especially when others rely on them. But I don't think it will ever get as bad as when I first started.

I am another outlier then, because I think about it in a very similar way.

I have the most necessary stuff that I need daily stocked up for a couple of weeks. That's it.

I have thought a lot about how individuals without a super high net worth could realistically prepare in a sensible way and came to the conclusion, that there doesn't seem to be a good enough answer at this point to justify spending a lot of resources on this.

So I decided to instead enjoy my life as long as it's as good as it is (in a materialistic sense).

Also, another important aspect of how to prepare mentally might be to look at it from a different perspective. What if this is actually a good long-term development disguised as economic hardship and suffering in the short run? I don't particularly like the way tech has turned out in the last couple of decades. Maybe it's an opportunity to rethink a few things...

I'm not a dev (UX/UI designer) but I thought I'd share my perspective.

I accidentally made several decisions in latest years that (in retrospective) made me more prepared for worsening of world economy.

- A couple years ago, I decided to quit a full-time "office" job and return to free-lancing. Within a year, I had 4-5 projects running simultaneously (with clients from different countries). It helped tremendously when I had to escape Russia in March 2022. It also feels much more reliable than a single source of income.

- we've been living in various cities for 4-6 months, "trying them out", hunting for the best balance of climate and quality of life. So we prepared ourselves to change location with less effort. Currently living in Tbilisi, Georgia.

- my wife trained me to optimise our spendings ;-) And that is a great thing actually. We only have necessary belongings (because we move a lot), we cook at home often, I use Hi-End in-ear headphones (because they have great sounds but cost less and take less space when moving), etc.

The anxiety is real. Everybody is tightening down, including my employer, who has slowed hiring and started letting go of people who aren't performing. There have been some team layoffs - five people in HR, ten people in customer service, etc. - but we are also still hiring for around a dozen positions. (This is a company with several hundred employees.) No engineers yet, but I can't say for sure I won't eventually be affected. On the other hand, my side of the org is meeting all its targets and works on core tech relied on by all our customers, so layoffs would seem hard to justify.

At the same time, people don't seem to be having much trouble finding new jobs - none of my colleagues who have left (voluntarily or not) seem have had issues in that regard. (Though I don't know everyone who's left, so, I can't speak authoritatively.) For my part, I like my employer and my job pretty well, good pay, good benefits, so I don't plan to make any big changes unless I don't have a choice or something egregious happens.

All that is to say that right now I am not doing anything in particular aside from making sure my income / savings are at the right level and that I have a backstop for any future trouble. I feel the anxiety, but I don't see that there is anything productive I ought to do about it that I am not already doing. I don't think that in an honest assessment I'd have any real trouble finding employment if I lost my job, especially if I had a couple months to look with pay.

Should I feel differently or be acting with more urgency? I'm genuinely not sure. The uncertainty is killer, even if I am in a good position in reality, which is what I suspect.

Investment properties that I'm renting out. I've been at my current employer for a while so it's my best bet to weather a big downturn. However, I'm also looking into doing some freelance work on the side to pad my earnings. Money unfortunately makes everything easier, and the more you have of it, the more options you have.

I really wish I could move to a more secluded area and country with a large amount of open space that one can disappear into if need be. But with children, family, and commitments it's not an easy option.

Getting my cost of living down and my debt down. Investing while the market is on sale. Not stressing about things I can't control.
I moved to a seed stage startup, what do the kids say - YOLO?
Surprisingly I’m not that anxious yet. Electricity, gas and food prices are going up and I know even worse times are coming, but as a developer I make almost three times the median income. If I get into trouble financially or if I can’t find a new job, at that point literally millions of people will have been starving and homeless for months. And if that does happen, then it’s already a SHTF situation I can’t really prepare for, except maybe moving back in with my parents in the countryside.
I have a large cash cushion that can fund the next 5 years of my life.

Other than that, I'm prepared to postpone some life goals if shit does hit the fan.

If you're storing your assets as cash, how will you deal with inflation?

Hopefully you'll never have to deal with what's happening in (e g.) Turkey over the last few years, but: if you were Turkish and you had five years worth of cash saved up two years ago, and you've never spent any of it, you now have what, 1 year's worth of cash?

We assume this'll never happen to the dollar/euro/pound, but what if it does? Even to a lesser degree. Are you prepared?

One year worth of cash is still enough.

I do the same as the OP and the way I deal with inflation is that I just keep adding more money every month. The objective of this stash is not to make a profit or fight inflation, its just to have a good enough amount of money to survive with 0 salary for at least a year. Regardless of whether or not I have a year worth of money, I just keep adding more.

I honestly don't know. Investing in anything seems futile since everything keeps crashing. I'm just living more conservatively and focusing on maximizing my cash pile.

If inflation does start hitting double digits, I wouldn't know what to do.

Been saving a good amount pre-tax as always. And maintained my emergency fund.

Didn't get a new car - spent a bit on maintenance of a 2008 Civic. New tires do a lot!

Gonna go see My Chemical Romance a few times (once overseas - work that strong dollar!)

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The "recession" (if any) already started. Not much has changed for us (devs).
Staying fit to be able to fight for food.
The family just started a three month period of what I've been calling 'Austerity' to tighten the belt a little bit and reign in our pretty careless spending lately. Basically it means stop buying various crap and toys off Amazon (by toys I'm including my own ridiculous accumulation of board and video games I'll likely never play, or only play once in a blue moon), cooking more, going out to eat less. It's been going...okay, we could certainly be doing better though.

Financially we do have some emergency cash in the bank, and if we had to we could liquidate some assets (although I'd rather not if at all possible, especially considering how much they've taken a beating in value this year).

I'm not sure what I'll do about my job. I'm relatively well established there, but I haven't really been making myself too visible to the rest of the company outside my immediate team lately (the team only has six people in it at the moment) so that might not be great in case layoffs end up happening, although the project we're on is a pretty strategic one for a large client and letting me improve several skills, and I've also been showing I can manage the company's offshore developers, so I'm hoping that's enough that I don't get caught up in a layoff anytime soon.

I have been tempted to possibly make another job hop before the recession and hopefully get established there before the recession kicks into full gear and I end up being kind of stuck where I'm at for a while, though, but that runs the risk of being included in a layoff much more easily as well.

Honestly if I do get laid off I will probably be relieved and take my time getting my next job, have a mini-sabbatical probably. I've been kind of teetering on the precipice of burnout land for a while now, and have been really wanting more energy to work on some pet projects, get some video games finished and put out in the world, without ever having enough energy leftover in the week to put much of a dent in those projects. I am chipping away at a game library that should help speed up that development if and when that ever happens.

I can't justify taking such a sabbatical otherwise, though, as really my wife needs it even more than I do, as she's struggling to juggle her full time job and working an extra 20-40 hours a week getting a side business going (the austerity is in part to help pad our savings to allow her shift to part-time for her day job at some point next year).

A quote from a book I like:

Nothing is really serious in the tranquility of peace; only an idiot could be really disturbed by a question of salary.

[US specific] I am of the thought process (and I could be wrong) that we'll have a normal recession or maybe a bit worse and then the US economy will do what it has for the past 100 years and eventually return to normal. I think that the kind of people that post on online forums (like this thread and places like /r/leanfire) can be economic doomers and expect things to fall apart completely at any second.

Decrease spending, increase saving. Lower expenses means your savings goes even further. Once you do that, keep it that way even in times of prosperity. You'll probably be able to weather economic downturns. Even if the US economy were to never prosper as it has, knowing how to live on less is huge to a safe financial future.

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