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Coaching for “Normals”?

73 points by wanderingCoder ↗ HN
I'm interested in finding an executive/startup coach, but I'm neither a c-suite executive or a successful founder. Does coaching exist (and at a relevant price point) for folks that maybe aren't quite at "that level" yet, but are hoping coaching might help them get to the next level?

65 comments

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duped
Something I've observed is that this level of coaching is only available through particular, isolated channels.

Those channels are top accelerators like YC and top VCs. It's not worth their time to waste it on people they don't have a stake in, but it seriously changes the trajectory of founders who are exposed to it (and their employees - not going to doxx myself but it's not possible to understate what you get through osmosis at an early stage startup on the path to being a unicorn).

Basically you need to take that risk to be a founder of a killer idea that redefines or creates entire new markets (or has the potential to) and then exercise a network to get in with the "in" crowd of advisors who have a vested interest in your success.

At the end of the day, those who can't do teach. But there's only so much you can learn from those who haven't done anything.

brudgers
Some of this goes under the name of "career counseling."

Sports psychology is probably related.

And general clinical psychotherapy might be worth considering.

I mean short of an industry mentor, you can only get general advice on mental changes and what you are trying to mitigate is dissatisfaction.

Good luck.

kirso
I believe this is different.

Coaching is about your present -> future

Therapy is about your past <- present

I wouldn't every touch career counselling via google search. Mostly finding recommendations on via known folks and referrals.

jdileo
First, congratulations on being proactive in pursuit of scaling your career trajectory. I'm often amazed that an ecosystem that reveres best-practice and first principals has fostered belief that coaching is valuable only to those who inhabit c-suites or....wait for it....the latest Stanford startup backed by the illuminati of SV.

Securing a coach is both possible and critically important to career trajectory. Further, the FANG SVP that has climbed ladder without benefit of guidance and network such associations yield is rare indeed.

If desired I can make introduction to a couple of people that are well respected, lmk.

picklerish
I'm interested as well. (How does DMs work here?, first time commenting)
lentil_soup
There's no DMs in Hacker News, but you could add contact details on your profile so people can reach you
Vibgyor5
Very interested - how can I connect with you?
drBonkers
Chiming in— I’ve been interested in finding a mentor for awhile. Do you think a coach fills this role?
__rito__
Actually a mentor finds you.

Happened with me, I made it happen to others.

Remember two things:

One, a mentorship need not be a lifelong relationship. Mentorship relationship might exist for three months, ten years, or might be lifelong. Different mentors are needed for different phases in your career.

Two, keep meeting people, keep talking about stuff that you are genuinely interested about. Not only professional interests, but also cultural, social, personal, and (in some little number of apt places) political interests, as well. When a mentor picks you, it's because you are interesting to them. A mentor is a person, and not an advice-bot.

jameal
There certainly can be overlap in these roles. You can have a coach who at times provides mentorship and a mentor who at times provides coaching. It can be pretty fluid. To draw a hard line between them, you can think of a mentor as someone older/more experienced who can show you the way. A coach on the other hand is someone you engage in a creative partnership with, and they are there to help you discover the answers that are within you.
ergonaught
The short but useless answer is yes.

The longer and hopefully less useless answer is that "executive/startup coach" is too general regarding your desired outcome(s) so it would be difficult to identify prospects for your consideration. "Relevant price point" also needs to be nailed down.

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dghlsakjg
Counseling, career counseling, career coaching and mentorship are all eminently affordable and right up your alley.
rongopo
Affordable is a relative term. I agree absolutely on the returns of the investment. I had once 3 coaches during 1.5 months preparing me for a big interview. It was exhausting but it really brought me to the next level. One coach was for interview preparation in the language of the employer. The second was an insider colleague preparing me with feedback on my slides etc. The third was a generic coach using my mother tongue --- unrelated to my profession --- and we were working on communication, values etc. The third one gave me the impression coaches have a recipe of 5 or 6 sessions that they more or less apply to everyone.
dghlsakjg
I should specify that when I say affordable I mean in the context of what tech people get paid.

Think 80-150/hr. Frequently you can find something in the benefits package that might help as well depending on who/where you work.

rongopo
Some people find that range out of their willingness to pay because they do not believe in the advantages it provides in the long term.
seanlinehan
Yes! We have a bunch of awesome coaches for people in your situation. Hit the form on our homepage and we'll get you set up. Or email me at sean@exec.com

https://www.exec.com

Upgrayyed_U
If you're seriously considering it already, I say just do it. I'm a "normal" by your definition and have a both an individual counselor and an executive coach, both paid for on my own dime. I've committed over $10k between the two so far and feel like it's money well spent.

80% of the value for me has come from identifying hidden sources of fear and working through plans to overcome them. I'm naturally risk-averse and really had no real understanding of how much I was letting my own self-limiting belief system hold me back. A good coach can help you identify ways in which you're inadvertently sabotaging your own progress and help you to overcome them.

The other primary benefit (the remaining 20%) has come from having a completely new and fresh perspective on problem-solving. I can easily say that I've had more directly actionable "Aha" moments in the last three years of coaching than I had over the previous 20+ years of my career. For every "unique" problem you think you have, a good coach or counselor has probably seen some variation of it dozens of times and can probably offer you a half dozen useful ways of tackling the problem. It's the same thing that something like YC does for startups, but applied to you on an individual level.

The major caveat of course is that good coaches are often hard to find and you might have to search a bit to find one that works well for your specific needs. YMMV and all that.

quickthrower2
How did you find your coaches?
Upgrayyed_U
I searched for coaches in my area, did a handful of interviews, then went with the one I related best with. The only unique insight I can offer here is to take any recommendations with a heavy grain of salt. Counseling/coaching is highly individualized, and what works for one person could do absolutely nothing for you. For the reason, there's no harm in ending a relationship that isn't working for you.
quickthrower2
Thanks for that. You have planted a seed for sure!
dexwiz
Sounds like that 80% could also be covered by talk therapy. I’m not discounting your approach, but identifying fears and their sources is pretty common.
cobertos
My thoughts too. I think the hardest thing is finding a therapist who will actually be giving you good data/challenging the things you're stuck on versus a therapist who just agrees with you
ethanbond
Isn’t coaching basically “non-professionalized” therapy? Like insofar as a decent chunk of therapy is this^ (interrogating belief systems), there’s hardly a reason you need someone to do it from the blessed perch of a paper that says “Doctor” on it, and hardly a reason your beliefs need to be pathologized to the degree that you become a “Patient.”
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uxp100
Therapists are already kinda non-professionalized, in that many already do not have a doctor piece of paper.

I’d say coaching probably is a different framing, maybe some different techniques, but similar goals as therapy? Idk, just sort of speculating.

theGnuMe
Coaching should focus on work issues and your personal development in the workplace. While that does overlap with regular therapy, regular therapy can involve family and more complex personal issues. You may also expect a coach to have more experience in corporate life than a therapist may. But the central tenant is their that the only change that can happen is the change that you make.

HBR has a good podcast that is run by Muriel Wilkins that is useful for those that can learn vicariously.

elif
80% of what personal trainers do could also be reduced to "talk therapy" and the other 20% is literally googleable.

Perhaps you can see how my example is an over-reduction that eschews the actual value of a personal trainer, and then likewise for founder coaching.

The main value is overcoming your own bias and limitation by accessing an informed neutral perspective. A coach isn't there to provide you with all the right answers. He's there to help you see the right problems.

sam0x17
I didn't know there was such a thing as an executive coach. Where do you find one?
Upgrayyed_U
You can easily search for one online or LinkedIn. But generally, once you start running in certain circles (think executive networking and chamber of commerce type events), you'll usually find a bunch of coaches and mentors waiting for you there. Or, at the very least, you'll have a group of people who you can ask for leads for finding a good coach.
Bellamy
Can you share some of possible fears?

I feel like I really don't have any but as you said those are hidden, so maybe I have some but I just don't know that.

don_neufeld
I do it. While most clients are company supported, folks who self-fund see very high ROI.

vpecoach.com

mattnewport
Sites like MentorCruise exist that offer paid mentoring with experienced people, including executives and startup founders. I'm not sure what a "relevant price point" is for you but they are often relatively affordable on a software engineer salary.

Full disclosure: I'm a startup founder with a profile on that site but there are other similar services out there I believe.

ada1981
We normally coach Unicorn Founders 1:1, however we have started a waiting list for a group founder coaching program. Would be on par with what you might pay for a therapist in NYC.
KingOfCoders
As a CTO coach, you can send me an email and we have a video chat where you can ask me what you want (for free of course ;-)
hotbots
Did Bill Gates need a coach? Did Steve Jobs? No, they just got on with it, and learned through a trial by fire. That's the best way - don't be scammed by people who offer the secrets of success, because there aren't any. Just try and try again until you win.
BinkieSmalls
It is easier to take risks when your parents have a lot of money or connections.
badpun
I'm sure Steve Jobs' father, a Coast Guard mechanic, had a lot of money and connections :)
BinkieSmalls
Fair point, Jobs maybe not but didn't Wozniak did all the work except marketing?
badpun
Without Jobs, Wozniak would be an HP lifer with a bunch of interesting side projects... He would've never pull the trigger without Jobs' involvement.
Aicy
Survivorship bias. You know about Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, but not the hundreds of others who tried the same thing and failed.
netsharc
That's a crazy statement. Roger Federer is a crazy good tennis player, and did he have a coach? Wow, he did...
kyleyeats
Are you in the Bay Area? I do emotional philosophy and can tailor coaching to you. Whatever rate you wanna pay.
wslh
My wife is an independent dentist she has a coach and it worked tremendously well for her.

She is normal (by your current definition!) in the sense that coaching is not about growing her business to a billion dollar endeavor nor about growth in the startup sense but more about living your potential because you will be more happy if you are successful in your own terms and in some of your current or future contexts.

Many of the friction, we, individuals experience are not connected with IQs or metrics that are fancy when you are in high school but recognizing resources to leverage or invent.

In a nutshell, IMHO, [western?] people tend to think that they need to hardly optimize at the individual level (very local optimization) where the potential is in The "tribe", the group(s), teams, clusters, etc you connect and/or built.

In another context, but linked, HN thread the article says "We should look to society, not to the brain" [1]. In this context we refer many times to coaching for improving the person but I would say the purpose is being a vector of change beyond your individuality but respecting it.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33170262

stoeckley
And here I thought you were looking for help understanding how normal vectors work to define the reflectiveness of a 3D surface, and I thought, that’s a rather specific item for guidance!
MarcoSanto
I’d trade coaching budget for company car any day. But as the old saying goes: “what if they leave after we train them”? Pls post here if you find a channel. I am also interested in that. I have (www.adplist.org)[www.adplist.org] but it’s more technical mentoring than anything else
tjpnz
Depending on what you want to achieve you may get somewhere with a life coach. I saw one and while they didn't help me professionally they were able to help me work out what it was I wanted to do at that stage in my life. I would argue that that's more valuable than leveling up in the office.
shiftspace_com
At shiftspace, we want to make personal development accessible to all levels of an organization, not just the c-suite. We offer a three months cohort-based program with app support and personal coaching between group sessions. Right now, we only engage B2B but if you're interested to join as an individual, we could get you on the next cohort (starting Jan, 2023).

Check shiftspace.com or DM me for more info. Cheers!

MarkPNeyer
I’ve worked with Mike at theattitudecoach.net. He’s not a career coach but he’s been very effective at helping me advance my career but helping me improve my functioning in all aspects of life.
garrickvanburen
I hired a coach to help me write a book and purchased coaching throughout running my own business for 15+ years.

I like Brad Ferris, Eric Maisel, and Alan Weiss.

I’ve also coached founders and execs in all size orgs.

Drop me an email if you’d like to talk through how I’ve used coaching and how I’ve coached.

fapi1974
Surprised no one has mentioned this: https://www.betterup.com/for-individuals

I haven't used it, myself, but I think they're the leading startup in the space.

drakonka
This thread and your comment made me look into BetterUp. I've been both drawn to and skeptical of this kind of coaching in the past, thinking of coaches as a lower-entry-bar version of therapists. I guess I questioned how a coach would be worth the money as compared to a mental health professional with proper training and deeper knowledge about the brain and the mind. Anyway, I noticed there was a free intro session and thought I'd try it. One of the coaches recommended to me has a background as a therapist, which helped alleviate my whole "Who are these people even and what makes them qualified for this?" skepticism a little. The session was actually really great aside from truly horrible video quality. As a newbie to this kind of thing, the price still seems pretty steep for talking to someone for 30 minutes, but at least judging by this intro session I'm really tempted to just try it for a few months.