Ask HN: Are we all burned out?
I feel burned out and every one of my friends and coworkers I have talked to are feeling burned out.
Having a kid, covid , war in Ukraine and now recession and layoffs have left me fatigued and I can barely learn anything new or look forward to anything .
All I want to do is look at my phone and consume more content.And I look back fondly to 2001-2007 and also 2010-2017. Do I need therapy or is everyone feeling the same ?
157 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 219 ms ] threadThe best I can recommend you would be to start dealing with handcrafting chores.
Try to avoid social media and news, reduce your internet usage in general and pay close attention to little things that you let go unnoticed in the past.
You know, things like how wind blows through trees and leaves, observe the sky, the birds, anything that can let your mind go free without thinking pretty much anything negative.
I have been doing this for a while now and have noticed tremendous difference; it could work with you too, why not?
Just hold on tight, you are not alone in this mess.
Our parents had tough times, and their parents had tough times, and so on throughout history.
People have dealt with famines, wars, oppression, economic struggles, disease and death for thousands of years.
I’m not suggesting the feelings of burnout aren’t real. I’m just saying that every generation experiences some level of hardship and it’s OK.
That’s not burnout. It’s just life.
US baby boomers had the best luck to be born in a time of massive prosperity, and opportunities have been steadily declining since then. My father didn't go to college and worked construction. He didn't own the company, just manual labor. He could pay the mortgage on a nice house in the suburbs and support a family on one working class salary.
Today, if they sold their house at current market value, I could not afford to buy it with the tech worker salary I make.
The only difference is that this new level of connectivity also is showing (if you're looking) how everyone else is doing and allowing you to constantly make quantitative comparisons. Now you're aware of what everyone house on your street is worth and where all your rich friends are taking vacations. But you don't have to buy into it. Stop counting other peoples' money and you'll be much happier.
Not everyone on HN is from the US.
The difference now is that we all just get too much information about what's going on in the world, we have access to information about ALL of the world's problems all the time. It's just too much and is difficult to deal with for many people.
It takes real self-discipline and self-awareness to tune it out.
Now it just feels completely chaotic, with everyone trying to dismantle the system and structures that made life more “cohesive”.
The result is increased anarchy, and its pretty frightening
All the hardships we experience on different parts of the world. We enable it.
We are distancing ourselves from a natural way of life. Gabor Mate implies that indigenous people had a fulfilling life, as they followed their instincts (their needs).
Some of us can afford to benefit from the fruits of cheap labor. We first worlders are aristocrats in a sense, as we are of the "ruling class" to an extent. We don't see the suffering there. Out of sight, out of mind.
When I look at the US and other first world countries, it is an open secret that those who appease the ruling class, will get a pass in their elections[1]. It is really strange that people like Mario Draghi and other ex-Goldman Sachsers get influential positions in state institutions.
The one thing I keep in mind is that, most of us (if not all) have the potential for evil. See also a couple of talks and lectures from Robert Sapolsky.
I don't doubt, for a second, that I would be a Nazi too, if I lived at that time. I am a sheep. Likewise, I have my biases. It is hard to see all of your biases and understand yourself 100%. Let alone understand the thing what we call "reality". We even assume things (e.g., in math, physics), since we can't be 100% sure on anything, it seems. We assume that our experience is "real", and we can't prove it. However, we hold on to that, since it appears sensible and the (current) alternative seems to lead to nowhere. I think, therefore I am. A sensible assumption, I suppose.
However, we exploit not only people from other parts of the world, but we also exploit our own. People working for you in stressful jobs for very low salaries. This happens even in Germany.
Cheap bananas, coffees and labor. We get a taste of aristocracy. Thinking of Naval Ravikant stating that we're relatively well off compared to medieval peasants. However, this is at the expense of other people. It isn't fair. But no one cares, really. Neither do I, which is horrible. I am therefore evil. I am no better than American/European (Goldman Sachsers, Time Warner Company etc.) or Russian oligarchs.
So who am I to criticize others, when I should be criticizing myself?
Really, if they want to nuke the Northern Hemisphere away, what can we do against it? They have the power, we really can't have a significant impact on these decisions[1]. Therefore, out of control, out of mind (i.e., stoicism).
1) https://obrag.org/2015/01/princeton-study-u-s-no-longer-an-a...
every time I find myself in such a situation, I find the best way out in training and sports. physical activity best heals the mind. running, push-ups, swimming
Hnews is not different, I come here for the same dopamine hit
And I often got some valuable tools/libs out of it.
Reddit is infinite, as well as much other social media
It can also be to do with your own mental filter... HN has submissions that are both on the pessimistic doomsday side at one end and hyper over optimistic side at the other end, but orthogonally there are also purely fun submissions - and these can be quite uplifting, a happy reminder to many of us of why we originally ended up doing what we do.
I don’t think blissful ignorance is the right way to think of it. I think the news (and social media) today is the same as it’s always been. Don’t cut yourself off but don’t take any of it too seriously.
Been great for my mental health.
Phones and technology are some of the only escapes left.
This is bad advice, even worse than saying use the phone more because it's dismissive of the larger issues I am facing in life. The phone isn't the thing doing the killing, it's the governments of countries like Iran, Russia, and Ukraine. There's are good and bad guys in war, but both countries experience a loss in souls.
That's also not how dopamine works.
Mine fell in the water months ago and changed my life. Now when I close the computer and walk out the door I'm completely unplugged for a few hours (FitBit for health though of course).
I started to avoid looking at any sort of news and felt better. I know that we need to have a positive outlook, but the level of disturbances seem to get me these days. I urge you to try it out as well
You might enjoy the book Four Thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkeman.
It probably helps that I got fed up with the low SNR on my Twitter and Facebook ages ago and stopped bothering to check them.
That being said, yes, there certainly are some particularly hard things going on right now. However, I wouldn't use external factors as an excuse to not address the legitimate feeling of burnout that you are experiencing. [I think it is a dangerous trap people fall in to say "I feel bad because of X external factor" rather than taking control of what they can control to make themselves feel better].
Personally, I think arming yourself with tools to better cope with that life stuff in general is useful no matter what. CBT therapy, in particular, I find can be helpful.
This will contribute to and/or perpetuate your burnout.
If you're overwhelmed and burned out, the last thing you need is to spend more time in front of screens and more time consuming endless streams of content. News content and outrage bait is especially bad at burning people out. It's easy to spend 30 minutes on Reddit or Twitter and feel like the world is collapsing around you.
Put down the phone. Do literally anything else. Meditate with your eyes closed in a quiet room, or go outside and go for a walk. The more often you do this, the better you'll feel.
And to answer your question: No, we're not all burned out. I have noticed that burnout-prone people tend to cluster together in bubbles where everyone amplifies each others' cynicism and pessimism. The rest of us prefer to build some distance between the chronically cynical people so we don't get brought down, too. Make a point to break out of your bubble and find people who are more like how you want to be.
Get offline. Step outside. It's fine.
Unplug from the 24/7 news cycle. They get you hooked with constant fear and outrage. If it's taking a toll on your well-being, you must disconnect. You can't influence any of the hypothetical things you're talking about by yourself anyway.
I mean that sincerely, but it sounds snarky. Nuclear weapons has been around for like 80 years and influenced global peace. News optimization function is for you to want more of it. The world is constantly changing. If you want to worry about things you have close to zero chance to influence you have so many better options - singulary, bio engineering, self replicating nano bots, great filter, windows 11, climate.
Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Harari is a fun read, much better than news (which btw, are really hard to come by if you would like to get some insight about what's happening and not just be fed propaganda - kind of disappointing how much there is of it on our side)
(Some limited time catching up on the news before voting is both acceptable and sufficient.)
- Join a gym
- Buy a bycicle
- Move to another city
- Get a new job with 20% salary increase
- City services finally covered that hole in my street after 3 months
(ie anything)
(Or maybe this isn't "another way". Maybe this is just repeating what the parent said.)
Walking is great for exercise, the physical world still matters. But if you want something in-between, a video game with its ups and downs might work as well. Anything you have to stick with will help.
When I'm feeling stuck with tech work, I go take a moderately brisk walk for 30-60 minutes while I think about the problem, sometimes with a buddy. It works very well for getting me unstuck.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/386:_Duty_Calls
that can explain burnout, as the internet is an endless source of errors.
But if you need therapy, get it. No problem there, everyone could probably stand a tune up.
Crazy story maybe, but I had a dream where someone close to me died. After that day, I decided to focus on enjoying life more.
I started to think about what I would want to do when I only had a few months left, and just started doing these.
I also started focusing more on personal care and health, dieting, eating better, and doing a little bit of exercise.
Both changes, although minor in practice, had enormous effect on my mood in a positive way.
Of course me and the person close to me are perfectly healthy.
Worst times in the US are still way better than best times in Russia in Ukraine. That may be true for entire time period of US existence BTW. Some people/countries are just more lucky than others.
By that measure, Russia history should result in it being at least somewhat reasonable soon though, so not sure that's how it works.
Definitely not. Get off social/news sites for a bit.
> All I want to do is look at my phone and consume more content.
with
- Lift weights
- Run a marathon
- Bike a century
- Write a story
- Paint a picture
Change your relationship with the things you cannot control.
But there were two things that I loved as a kid and decided to pick them up at the peak of COVID pandemic, as I was experiencing burnout. I took racquet sports and calligraphy. It has materially enhanced my life quality and I can just say "why didn't I think to do this earlier?"
Here's my little bit of help I can offer. I haven't had a kid, yet, but I know what you are going through. I've been lucky enough to have been able to fall back on things like employment insurance here in Canada to be able to take some time to myself to let my inner angst out and deal with it constructively. You probably don't have that available, so here's my advice for in the meantime.
1. Find at least 3 hours in a day that you can dedicate to yourself, nothing else. This will not be easy since you have a kid now, but I believe everyone needs to have at least 10% of the day dedicated to themselves, otherwise burn out is very possible for anyone.
2. Ignore people saying this is 'just how life is'. It's not. There are plenty of people out there living perfectly content lives still having to deal with all the same things you are, and possibly more. My parents had to drop everything and move us kids (4 of us til 5th was born) out to the bush just to make ends meet once upon a time ago. There were hard days, and plenty of tough times, but I never heard my mother or father complain about burn out or anything like that. Not because they were tough as nails or anything like that, but because they were able to do what they needed to without interference from every joe dick jane and jerry. So my advice here is to just do what YOU think you need to do, provided its not going to harm anyone else or yourself. That's liberty. That's freedom. You're burning out because you are lacking these things (IMHO).
3. Find something you truly enjoy doing that isn't just consuming more content. The internet can sometimes lead to worse burn out for some, due to the nature of how we use it. If you must be on the internet for whatever it is you enjoy doing, just at least avoid social media. That will drain a person faster than a lot of anything else. (Again IMHO)
4. You don't need therapy via some specialist. You just need someone who will listen when you need to vent. Just remember to be there for that person too when its their turn to unleash their troubles. That's what we're here for, for each other.
5. In regards to learning something new. In the words of Shia Labeouf "Just Do IT". I know its hard, I struggle with it too. I have 3 books on different aspects of computer sciences just waiting to be used. Haven't touched them. Can't be damned to. Not because of burn out, but because there is always something else that I want to do instead. So I really should take my own advice here.
6. In tandem with avoiding social media... do the same with the news. We need to stay informed, but the informers aren't always really doing what they do to inform us, but to keep us scared of what we can do nothing about except worry.
So just do whatever it is you want/need to do instead of wasting time trying to stay informed. A large degree of it is pure unadulterated bullshit anyways.
7. Listen to Donkey Kong Music. Or whatever music you find enjoyable and relaxing. I find Donkey Kong tunes to be very much this.
8. Again, ignore the people who say "this is just how life is". It's not. It's just how life is right now because people have consigned themselves to it. Yes, there are plenty of things that can make life terrible, but that doesn't mean we need to dwell on them, or even accept them. Our greatest achievement as a species on this planet has been our ability to transcend these issues; or at the very least withstand them until we can transcend them.
9. I leave this here for future edits if I decide to add more.