Tell HN: Getting Ready for Unemployment

148 points by _qyyd ↗ HN
Quit a low-paying C++ job (which was a horrible mistake) and now being unemployed for god knows how long.

So far, every single company I applied for, rejected my job application. (Told me that they found a person better qualified than me.)

Some weeks have passed, I didn't find anything new. Have large amounts of debt and barely any savings.

I am exhausted and stressed to the point where I am already thinking about "taking the easy way out". Those rejections hit hard and the fact that I am not qualified enough (as they told me), just makes me question my existence even more.

It seems like I am going to be unemployed for a while. I don't know when this war will end and whether they want to nuke the Northern Hemisphere away or not.

However, I know, I am not alone in this and god knows how many people have it worse than me. The uncertainty for me (and probably for many others) is really hard to endure.

So maybe I shouldn't be exhausted or depressed as I am right now. Maybe I should learn things and get distracted in these uncertain times.

Naval Ravikant suggests you to learn math. Math and physics happens to be a hobby of mine. Currently, (re-)studying linear algebra and analysis in R^n (multivariable calculus). Those 2 areas in math interest me the most and I enjoy studying them. Other than that, I like to watch physics lectures from Walter Lewin. Trying to learn some Japanese with Genki.

All that is "useless", but at least they bring me joy, and they distract me enough from this harsh economic reality.

On the other hand, I can learn something "useful" for whatever the job market demands of me. As being mostly a C and C++ dev won't cut it for me anyway. However, I simply don't feel like it.

Yeah, so I tried (looking for jobs), I failed (getting a new job), and now it looks like I need to come in terms with my unemployment and the fact that the world tanks right now. Trying to do something "useful" in the meantime...

Signing off.

136 comments

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> I am already thinking about "taking the easy way out".

Please don't. You have something to offer and if you snuffed yourself out, that valuable spark of human spirit would be gone.

Gently, "some weeks" (not sure what this means exactly) is not a very long to be looking for work. Keep your chin up and keep applying. Get a resume review — I'm sure someone here would be happy to take a look and see what you can improve. Get a non-professional job in the meantime just to keep some money flowing in. And reach out to your family and friends for support. There is no shame in leaning on people; we all need help to get through the hard times.

During the dot com bust, my brother -in-law ended up being unemployed for 18 months.

Moving back in with family, if an option, is always a good path in situations like this.

This is very solid advice. Just being around people and not having to worry about rent will be a huuuuge burden lifted off your shoulders!
I think it's important to note that for some people, being around family is more stressful than having to worry about rent.
Being stressed around family is better than being homeless.
True, but that's a whole other story. If you're homeless, you're no longer worrying about rent - you're worrying about having a place to sleep.
Works in the US, where most families live in big houses. Doesn't work as well in the rest of the world, where people tend to live in smallish apartments much more often.
In many parts of the world including parts of Europe eg Italy, it’s common to live with family until you get married.
You will be surprised that in many parts of the world, people do live in big houses too and sometimes much bigger than average mcmansion here in the US. It is usually cities where apartments are more common.
> "some weeks" (not sure what this means exactly) is not a very long to be looking for work.

I know but when you are desperately looking for work, along with multiple failures, 12 weeks could felt like 12 months. Especially with an empty pocket. I know it rationally doesn't make any sense but from experience that is how it felt. It was hard, especially hard when you dont have family and friends around you for support.

>Get a non-professional job in the meantime just to keep some money flowing in.

Yes. Waiter, Drivers. There are plenty of options, enough for food on the table.

To OP. I dont know much about US Food Cost, but at one point in my life I was spending 70 pence a day on food, or a little more than a US dollar. Washing clothes by hand, couldn't even afford heating in Winter. Barely able to afford to pay rent and food along with whatever debt. Something like McDonald was luxury. It was hard, but not impossible.

Just dont give up.

Dont FUCKING give up.

If you are already at systems level programming field (C/C++) you can tackle on Rust, which is becoming more and more popular (Linux Kernel, Microsoft in the future, etc)
Similarly, you can probably learn Python and (given your interest in math) data science, or TypeScript and web dev (may not be the most rewarding career but it can buy you time to pivot to something else). If you have been writing code for a while you should be able to pick up a specialization to a junior level in a few weeks, and some places will let you do that learning on the job. Good luck, and don’t give up.
Have you considered applying for non-tech jobs? Unemployment in most western countries is incredibly low right now. If you have large debts that are stressing you out, taking a boring job and paying it off will ease a lot of that stress. You might also find your talents put to use in areas you don't expect.
This right here. I make decent money as a software eng, but recently spent time with family and saw how much my little brothers are making in roof sales and low voltage electrical work (intercoms, led lighting, etc). Trades and home building in the US pay pretty well.
i was a software engineer for 15 years. Got into framing houses. Started a business about a year into it. I make great money.
> Those rejections hit hard and the fact that I am not qualified enough (as they told me), just makes me question my existence even more.

Except those lines are scripted corporate-speak and have no bearing on reality. They don't care about you.

Yes. The hardest part of a job search is learning not to take the rejection personal, because it is not.
Even the interview is about HR trying to fill their quota and trying to tick their secret checklist and repeating whatever their manager tells them to repeat while trying to sound genuine.
I would strongly look into your spiritual health. You shouldn't be thinking of anything negative. I was worried by what you meant by taking the easy way out.

This means doing some soul searching and deciding you want to know the truth of spiritual reality.

Look into the cause of evil and the source of good.

For me, and I know it's probably not popular on HN but Jesus gets me through each day. Asking for a higher power for help when you clearly need it.

There are dozens of us! God bless :)

> Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

— 2 Corinthians 4:13-18

Amen. Let us never commit the crime of self-murder, nor allow another to by negligence.
You didn't find a job... yet! Don't give up!

I've helped hundreds of developers find better paying freelance / contract work - add me on LinkedIn and I'll review your CV and profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrei-puni/

yeah... but... recruitment agents ain't really your friends. can (!) be a success yet still - adds a lot of costs -> pressure.
> Maybe I should learn things and get distracted in these uncertain times.

It sounds to me like you've already got one foot on the ladder out of that hole.

I'm pretty sure I've been in that hole, and I'm pretty sure I remember that ladder.

Yield thou not to adversity, but instead fight on all the harder!
Chat to your doctor about this, sounds like it may be ‘proper’ depression and they’ll be able to give you advice to tackle it. Maybe you aren’t but talking it through early and catching it early is best :)

A life lesson I learned was to ensure your personal life is as satisfying as your work life so when one tanks you have the other. Make sure your mental model of yourself is >than just ‘software developer’. Learning Japanese sounds healthy :)

On a productive note, if you want work look at Python. There’s tons of remote Python roles and it has some ML elements your maths knowledge will help with.

^ , its exhausting seeing the world for what it really is. You have the fed currently tipping the scales against workers right when workers started having bargaining power after ten years of liquidity being pumped and stored under the rug that was the equity/private markets, no money circulating means no real inflation. Once the fed members sold a year ago in October it was obvious they were going to crash the economy all that money rushed out into hard assets and money began circulating. Sure supply side played a part, makes for a great cover. Now you have record inflation and before workers can demand higher pay to offset the higher cost of living they're going to nip it and restart the cycle where workers have no leverage all over again having to accept a lower standard of living where your money doesn't go as far. Unless you were born wealthy, you're playing a short stacked game that's -ev. As more people realize that playing by the rules and working hard gets you no where, the more crime and scams will become appealing and will thrive. And for all the tech workers who made decent money the past ten years and have the libertarian mindset that you accomplished it all by yourself, well that was mostly the feds liquidity pumping your options and RSUs and even then you probably deserved more money than you got paid. About the easy way out comment, have felt and feel the same way, though the blink reunion tour might buy me more time.
> So far, every single company I applied for, rejected my job application. (Told me that they found a person better qualified than me.)

The problem isn't your qualifications, it's your resume and the roles you're applying for! Just look on the Who's Hiring threads here on HN, and filter on the ones that look interesting. Remember, first and foremost, you're applying for a job, it's not some academic tenure track or PhD program. It doesn't have to be that interesting if it pays.

Then, update your resume, and basically broadcast it widely, from maybe 100 applications, you might get 10-20 responses, and from those you might get a shortlist of 4 or 5. Then hit the interviews for these while preparing another "broadcast". It's simply a numbers game.

Spamming out CVs to companies advertising on HN might be a rational strategy if you work in a popular field like web development and live in the US. It might get you nowhere fast if say you work in a more specialised programming field and live in Europe, where there are serious economic problems, we're asking genuine questions about whether we will have reliable power supplies for everyone throughout the coming winter, there is an actual shooting war happening, and some countries are dealing with big political changes and the accompanying uncertainty. Job markets in many parts of the world are not looking so hot right now, even in tech where we've had a very easy ride for a relatively long time, and being aware of that and having realistic expectations are important for anyone searching or thinking of jumping ship.

Without knowing more about OP's background than they've chosen to share in their submission you can't possibly know whether they would benefit from adopting a different style of resume, building a more widely sought skill set, or simply having more patience and better luck at finding work to pay the immediate bills so they can ride out the storms that hundreds of millions of people are facing over the next few months and give themselves some breathing room to find better opportunities later.

imo the situation in western europe is not that bad yet, companies still have demand for software devs, c++ / systems / automotive / medical is well in demand in west / north of europe.
This is not consistent with my experience in Germany at all. Companies everywhere are looking for educated people. The demand for people with programming skills borders on desperation! Do you have a degree and a pulse? Do you show up for work on time, communicate clearly and keep your promises? Somebody will gladly hire you! You just have to keep at it.

One thing the OP might try is to manage their expectations. My fear is that tech has been so hot for so long that people have forgotten what the normal world feels like.

That world is not horrible. There are many levels between the entry-level and top-paid positions. And there are thousands of companies outside the tech bubble with opportunities suitable for a programmer or developer. I believe that the best opportunities are in the intersection between programming and some other field.

(You are right that they will probably not be found on HN.)

Looking for a purple unicorn and not hiring anybody, keeping jobs posted for years.
> The demand for people with programming skills borders on desperation! Do you have a degree and a pulse? Do you show up for work on time, communicate clearly and keep your promises? Somebody will gladly hire you! You just have to keep at it.

Translation : "Are you from a top tier institute with several years of experience in FAAANG companies working on EXACTLY the same technologies that are listed in the JD? Great! Now do 5 rounds of leetcode hazing, then system design, then culture fit rounds, and then we'll ghost you"

You obviously don't know the german job market at all. First of all, nobody cares what University you went to because they're more or less all the same. Second, for a normal tech job, it is very uncommon to have more then one, maybe two interviews.

If you just want a job to pay the bills, it's really like that at the moment: You have a pulse and you can write code, you get hired.

> where there are serious economic problems, we're asking genuine questions about whether we will have reliable power supplies for everyone throughout the coming winter, there is an actual shooting war happening, and some countries are dealing with big political changes and the accompanying uncertainty.

I'll give you that, things look bad right now, but unless it's a near societal collapse then you still need to go out and put food on the table. There's no point curling up in a ball and declaring 'woe is me'.

Even in a bad economy it's still a numbers game to land a good job, except the odds get longer. Even then you can improve your odds somewhat, get some online certifications, learn a new language or framework, or build a portfolio of your with on GitHub. Even a personal website would help. And the main thing to realize is that the only one who can help your chances is yourself. Inaction is your worst enemy.

I'll give you that, things look bad right now, but unless it's a near societal collapse then you still need to go out and put food on the table.

Again, there is an actual shooting war going on in Europe, which OP alluded to in their submission. I have worked with people from Ukraine in previous tech jobs. I expect some or all those people are currently doing something very different.

Here in the UK and over a single weekend my company went from holding active discussions with a few prospective clients to almost every proposal being suspended for review because of the infamous "mini-budget" a few weeks ago. If we'd been a little further along and maybe setting up new hires for any of the other projects then those jobs would instantly have disappeared too. There must be many other companies here that have been dealing with the same uncertainty and its chilling effects.

Of course people still need to go out and earn a living unless there really are more urgent things they need to do. My point is that there are plenty of reasons other than OP's qualifications or resume why the job market where they are might be much tougher than one where you can expect a 10-20% response rate just from spamming out CVs.

Expand beyond C/C++. I realized about halfway through my career that full time C/C++ work was diminishing and higher-level languages and frameworks were going to open up more jobs (they did). For me, this involved learning more web tech (python, javascript, UI dev) as well as Java. As a C++ dev you might want to also look into Rust as thats becoming more prevalent and popular these days.

Hell, you should just apply to a bunch of Rust jobs, noting your deep experience in C/C++, and see if they bite.

Good luck.

Ditto. Java is like C++‘s popular cousin who lives nextdoor, talks too much and doesn’t like to take his trash out. It won’t take you long to get familiar with it.
Hey, he gets around to taking the trash out eventually. If he can remember where it is
Java just hires garbage collectors, whereas C++ opts to painstakingly pick up its trash itself.
Are you sure? I have 10 years of C++ dev experience and I feel like a hot girl on tinder… have to constantly fend off recruiters. I have at least a an offer a week… I sometimes go through the interview just to stay sharp (I love my current workplace, been here for almost 8y and I am not planning to change anytime soon) and usually end up with an offer!
Very sure. I have pretty much on every programming language on my resume and LinkedIn (and yes - I have actively worked on projects that shipped to customers using those). Number one recruiter reachouts are webdev (Javascript), followed by generic web backend stuff (Java, sometimes Go, less likely C#). Then there are the Rust crypto blockchain stuff recruiters (yes, it's unfortunately 90% of roles using Rust). And the very least in terms of volume is C/C++/Embedded stuff.
Probably you don’t have enough C++ experience… almost every time I interview someone who claims some experience in C++ (damn… sometimes even people that worked in C++ only for years) I am very tempted to advise them to completely remove C++ from their resume cause their knowledge ridiculous! I am literally bombarded with offers! (My company develop all its backends, web services included, in C++)
Maybe? Maybe not? You are likely as well positioned on judging about that based on looking at an arbitrary name on a message board than the usual recruiters are based on looking at LinkedIn profiles. They are buzzword searching, and a the actual skill check follows in an interview loop. It might just either be about different buzzwords, or a different geographic region.
Keep applying! It's very normal for a job search to take months. And it's possible that one of the companies will reach out to you down the line with an interview offer.

It sounds like your resume could use some review. Consider reaching out to friends and experts. Good luck!

There's this meme that you get laid off on Friday, you send some emails on Monday, and you have a job by the end of the week. Not broadly true and certainly not at the moment.

But, yes, review resume and reach out. But also be prepared for this to be a multi-month process.

Even if you lose all your property and declare bankruptcy, you can still drive a car, you can still work in food service, you can still drag yourself out of the hole. I hesitate to bring up religion here, but even if you are not religious then philosophies like stoicism can bring you peace. And also look into psychiatric drugs like anti-depressants, they do work for many people. Good luck and don't give up hope
I know that stressed feeling and I know how it feels like it’s never going to end but believe it or not this is a big opportunity. You were in a rut and now you’re going to dig yourself out of it! But, you’re going to need to think differently. First, you need to face the truth that you matter infinitely more than your employment status, debt burdens, and past mistakes. Second, you have a lot to offer the world in ways that right now would surprise and amaze you. Third, you’re going to have to fundamentally change your strategy so you need to seek really specific advice about your situation with someone who can connect you to the right resources. Maybe tap your network for appropriate gigs, talk to a career counselor, a therapist at a local charity e.g. some Catholic Dioceses have free therapy charities, talk to a local Priest or Pastor who often help people in your situation and will know resources in your area. Digging yourself out of this rut is your new full time job, you’re the most qualified, and I believe in you! Good luck!
there's secular therapists too :-)
Don’t let this life defeat you. Keep your head up.
Take care of your physical health, and go for long 5 mile (8 km) walks everyday. Mental health substantially depends on physical health and hope you feel better.
"taking the easy way out" Please don't ever. I have suffered from similar thoughts but largely have managed to get over them. Can you possibly take some contracting gigs ? It doesn't seem like you hate C++ but just hated the low paying job. If so, then there are quite a few consulting gigs you can grab just based on your C++ skills, especially in the financial world. Please try reaching out to some recruiters in the financial space. Is this something that would interest you ?

One other option is this company called crossover, it's a real shitty company and they monitor your every move and shit like that but they pay reasonably well, 100K+ and you can get in if you are reasonably good with code. I wouldn't recommend this, but since you are under a lot of debt, the money can be a lifesaver.

Another option is with database companies that are still on C and C++. ScyllaDB, Aerospike are a few options. They are hiring and if you need a referral at Aerospike, feel free to email me, email in profile. I worked there.

Lastly, weeks is not really that long to get a job. Some of the interview loops even at FAANG companies last for 4-6 weeks. So don't lose heart.

This may not be what you want to hear pal, but consider getting 'just any job' for now, to make ends meet. It's not going to feel good, and you're probably going to hate it, but at least you won't be unemployed... which will feel better than being unemployed.

I may not be a programmer, but I have been in your shoes. It sucks. The abyss looks friendly sometimes when society is not.

I am not an expert in "depression" although been there many times. What helped in my case were the short walks I made near town or in the park. This was the "pill" taken every day that turned the things around. Of course, if you really fill on the edge and "taking it the easy way out" you should definitely speak with someone! But try to take joy of the small things you have. Take it easy and slow and it will get better! Job rejections are always tough, I personally also am taking them way too serious, while in reality the companies really don't care. What they care is to reduce costs, and increase gains. What I did when I was in the same situation, I just reworked my application docs several times, until reaching a satisfactory quality to hook the recruiting guys up, and reduced my salary expectation.

Regarding the Cpp, man I don't know in which country you are, but at least in Switzerland, my country, I stumble upon thousands of job openings for Embedded development engineers every day. Don't know your background, but try thinking a bit more broader.

Bottom line, take it easy, and try doing something you love every day consistently at least once. Tweak your Resume. There some good templates/suggestions in the net these days. Reduce expectations. DON'T read news!

One of my friends was in a similar situation recently and, going for a walk in the park and basically just talking to friends and family often on phone helped him immensely. He also used to just let his brain trained by waking up early, taking shower and going to public library every morning at 9am and coming home at 5pm and just preparing for the job interviews there.

Wishing OP all the best and I hope he finds the job soon.

oh yeah... walks are great
I had my bootstrapped startup for 18+ months, which was not doing well, it was almost like being unemployed; last 6 months I was desperately applying for jobs without getting any traction.

What helped me at that time was Yoga (deep breathing exercises which is part of that was particularly helpful). Yoga used to keep me fresh and 'alive' during the day, so that I could continue looking for jobs without losing steam over period of time.

In the hindsight that single ritual (~4 days a week of morning Yoga), kept me going and now I'm at a good place, managed to recover not only from professional setback but also managed to recover from almost financial wipe-out during that 18-month period.

Did you ask more details?

try to find out what is lacking in your experience from their POV

Finding a job can take time even during good times, you already quit so only thing you can do is be persistent now and flexible to whatever comes up

In the meantime, Github is always a good option: contribute to OSS projects, show activity and your experience.

Maybe some of the companies regularly contributing to OSS would consider hiring you (RedHat etc?)

There is no easy way out for your family.

Sack up, work a restaurant job until you're back on your feet. Once you build your stacks back up at the restaurant job use that confidence to hit the job market and take what's yours. You got this, I believe in you.

You should put some contact details into your profile, so people can reach out directly.

Sounds like you have some specific interests, and interesting skills, I'd be down to chat. My contact details are on my profile, send an email!