Poll: Is there a negative stigma toward articles written in Medium?

217 points by LinuxBender ↗ HN
Creating a poll on behalf of theanonymousone for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33223124

Will I/my articles get negativity within dev and tech communities because they are written in Medium?

Please comment if you can think of better alternatives to Medium

211 comments

[ 6.8 ms ] story [ 300 ms ] thread
(comment deleted)
For me, the stigma is more about the paywall thing that usually fires up and hides all but the first paragraph of the article. Otherwise, I don't care about the domain in the url.
Ghost [1] and Substack[2] seem to be popular alternatives within dev and tech communities.

[1] https://ghost.org/publishers/ [2] https://substack.com/

Substack is moving towards the same paywall setup as medium AFAIK
Who didn't see that coming, though?

The web has become broadly influenced and geared towards a certain way of doing things that happens because:

1. it costs money to create and maintain a substantial web property. Medium, Substack, Patreon, gumroad, ghost, buttondown, etc all run on top of services that cost money. Maybe AWS, maybe Google App Engine, plus Cloudflare, Heroku, Netlify, Digital Ocean, etc. Oh and Stripe, PayPal or some payment processor, if the site has a subscription model, too.

2. the web of the 2020s really has only one way to make enough money to pay for these services: advertising. There's only one way to get enough money through advertising to be profitable, and that's to have some portion of attention-getting, clickbaity, top 10 list content. That content generates enough 'virality' to show up on Twitter, FB, here, or wherever.

A no-paywalled, no-ads site (like Hacker News) is a cost center maintained as a sort of vanity project for a company that makes money elsewhere.

What people are complaining about around Medium is really a complaint about how content on the web is, and must be, monetized, if it is to be a money-making business, as opposed to my blog, say, which is just money out of my pocket.

It's going to take a concerted effort to break away from the current economic model of the web. Just turning up our noses at Medium or Substack and pivoting to the NEW new thing won't change anything, as the new new thing inevitably gets dragged into the web economy or goes broke.

I’m kind of surprised we don’t have a “decentralized Medium” at this point. Yes, Mastadon and others exist and have traction, but they don’t fit the specific demographic that Medium does (an easy place to write content that gets ranked and monetized). With less costs would come more sustainable integrity, as well as a bigger share for writers.
Strong disagree, the barrier to entry should be higher. That's why GitHub Pages is a signal of quality, at least the author knows what GitHub is. As cost approaches zero (time/effort/money) spam approaches infinity. Then you need gmail-level spam filtering and you end up with centralization.
Is it? Substack was made with paywall in mind from day one. The difference is that the writer decides.
I'm not a dev or too much of a tech person, but Substack also has a slight stigma in my eyes. I really haven't looked into either platform, but as far as I know, it's similar to Medium, no? (It has a low barrier to entry?)

I guess anything with a low barrier to entry, has to do more to prove itself.

I'd like to recommend Hashnode[1]. I've been using it for the past few months and enjoying it so far. Highlight - it has a non paywall based monetization system.

[1] https://hashnode.com

How do they make money? It's not clear from that site.
Nope. Hashnode is about the same level as Medium in terms of community / culture.
Maybe something like https://bearblog.dev/ ? But I don't write on medium so I don't know what's missing in comparison.
(comment deleted)
I like bearblog, and it seems like quite a few posts on there are getting well received on HN lately.

I've been meaning to start up a blog again, and I've been debating doing bearblog as an easy way to get started again since my Hugo blog has sat in a half-finished state forever, and it seems like they can get decent visibility.

Medium used to be a viable and easy way to get started, which is one of the reasons self-hosting is an important selection criteria (even if you never use it)
Doesn't look like you can self-host bear.
Sure, but this is a comparison to Medium, not too self-hosted blogs.
You can't self-host it as an individual blog but it should be possible to self-host the platform and then open a blog on it.
Yes, but only because they are aggressively making their reading experience terrible. I'd argue that a WordPress site with the default template is less offensive at this point.

The typography and layout on Medium is fine, it's the popups, nags, paywall, and the like. For a while there was a lovely extension called "Make Medium Readable Again" but they aggressively broke that too. I'm happy to let Medium fall off the tech community radar.

Medium works completely fine with Javascript disabled ;)
Doesn't that disable all images too?
When's the last time a Medium article had useful and relevant images? I usually just see some generic stock art from Unsplash.
they often have useful and relevant images.
I frequently see code embedded as images...
It varies. Some articles are fine. Some only show a couple of paragraphs.
Somebody at Medium must have been reading! Two days later and it's completely broken without js.
Culturally I think it is pretty bad. Writers on medium are lazy and they frequently have very little to say other than to assert their membership into a tribe. That’s par for the course on many subjects but for technical subjects it’s like a joke that blasts through the set-up at 200% speed and then misses the punch line entirely.

I remember talking to somebody who was so impressed that he got 70 views on an article on Medium and having to break it to him that I thought a blog post was a big hit if it got 70,000 views back in the day.

Perhaps it is as simple as this: any author who is exposing their readers to the awful experience is contemptuous of their readers and not really serious about blogging.

FWIW i wrote occassionally and I do not care where. I just cared that it worked.

I do not write articles for a living or make money out of them. So no tribe stuff in my case.

I just did it out of enjoying it

So I assume you would’ve avoided Medium which was limiting how many articles a user could read for free, since then it literally wouldn’t work for many.
I also heard some shallow marketing people saying how great it is and how everyone should be going to medium to promote their personal brands and increase visibility.

This is an immediate red flag for me. It means that even if Medium is fine now, it's going to get populated by these types soon.

Or a WordPress site with a nice looking theme on your own domain with total control over your own publishing platform, with portability. WordPress is the Linux of publishing. Publishing on Medium or Substack is like building apps on the iPhone or applications on Windows: you’re there by the good graces of the platform owner and if you’re ever a strategic risk or opportunity to them, you’re dead.
For developers, static site generators are the better choice IMO.
Why is this? I'm drawn to WP for my own personal site, because there is a critical mass behind WP, it's a transferable skill, there's a lot of nice stuff that comes out of the box, there's a well established web design community around it, etc.

I've seen so many static site generators come and go over the past decade that the number of options now is just dizzying. From what I've seen, they all try to be "minimalist"... until the developer realizes there's a lot more work and expertise involved in "minimalist" design than they originally thought, and they grow, bit by bit by bit, etc, ... Then somebody sees these "bloated" SSG's and decides to reinvent the wheel by creating their own "minimalist" SSG with no baggage and thus the cycle starts all over again.

> Why is this?

Because why put your admin interface out to the web if you can also just send some HTML files to a static site hoster. The static hosters are nearly impossible to hack and they can be heavily optimised because they only serve files.

As another argument, software engineers are used to Git meaning that you’ll have a proper backup for your site.

I disagree. They’re fashionable but are more work and don’t provide benefits that justify the additional work. Just install WP out the box and let it run on the latest version of PHP which is blazingly fast. Get all the ease of use and flexibility that comes from default WP without the complexity.
Wordpress sites also take some work.
> For a while there was a lovely extension called "Make Medium Readable Again"

Use https://scribe.rip

Just replace medium.com or other medium domain, and you get a clean representation with all cruft removed.

if you have libredirect extension installed you can also make use of multiple instances of scribe if one's down
Sometimes people complain that my article presentations are so out of date, but I like it, and they load fast. They're just static plain old html.

https://www.digitalmars.com/articles/index.html

I am one who enjoys your articles and the simplicity of the display, but I do wish there was a little more love applied to the CSS styling for mobile. Sidebar cuts the display region of the text by a significant portion and line heights get a little messed up by some of the inline code segment things, minor nitpicks like that. Might wanna view them on a vertically oriented phone or emulate the display yourself to see what I'm talking about. Just my two cents!
Reader mode on iOS seems to work pretty well.
Agreed on all counts. Mobile seems also not padded enough. Feels like the text is going to run off the right side, if that makes any sense.
> I'd argue that a WordPress site with the default template is less offensive at this point.

I wholeheartedly agree. And for this reason, and many others, I'm planning on setting up my personal website/blog using Wordpress.

But as for the default template being "less offensive" than Medium, I'd like to do a little better than this. I've looked at other WP templates and I am happy to learn PHP and become a real WP developer just to make a good site (I'm already an experienced developer in other languages). I also get the impression that WP development is a highly transferable skill.

I understand perfectly well that making a good, "minimalist" site takes a of expertise and effort. But I don't have the faintest where to being with this, as all my effort up until this point has been on the back end, data science computation, etc. Should I just start at the wordpress.{org,com} and follow my way from there? Is there some special resource that I should know about?

Medium articles now are a major source of google spam on programming topics. They're churned out by people who are just learning a new language or whatever and don't have a lot of technical depth and they're people who are pretty desperately trying to push their own personal brand.
>The typography and layout on Medium is fine

Isn't there any Medium-like theme for WordPress? (Though maybe you frighten people thinking they ended up in a Medium blog.)

Medium CEO here. I saw this thread too late for many people to see my response. I love that the result is basically unanimous. I agree with nearly everything here.

I am a programmer, I've written a programming book, I used to work at a tech publisher (O'Reilly). From O'Reilly, I know a lot about how to build a system around programmers that puts out important and accurate information. Medium started in the ballpark of that and then went in the wrong direction.

I think we can do a lot to change that. For me, change is less about changing our reputation and instead just getting the utility right.

We have syntax highlighting coming out in a week or so and I'll do a bigger post then about what is changing for technical readers and authors.

> Please comment if you can think of better alternatives to Medium

In my opinion a personal blog or website on a personal domain is the most credible way to publish your ideas.

Agree.

To me a personal blog shows more commitment from the author for two reasons: you have to spend some time to ser it up and search engines tend to position them high when you search for the author name.

Even Medium posts being signed I don’t know why it gives me some anonymity feeling and makes it harder to navigate through other content from that same author.

Committing to SERPs is challenging. Unless your domain itself has your full name, a Medium article with your name in there will rank higher than your personal blog...

Although I remember there being some option to verify a website for name searches on Google.

That plus having a Twatter/Fecebook/HN/etc account to confirm the official site should be enough to reasonably avoid impersonators.

Is this an issue? I’ve never run into people impersonating real people with websites. Are there situations where someone pretends to be John Doe and to rank higher? To what end?
I agree. I get a positive impression from articles on self-produced websites with personal domains. They show that the author has put some thought, effort, and money into the presentation and preservation of their writing.

Creating such sites might be out of reach for a lot of nontechnical folks, but people in the dev and tech communities should be able to handle it.

> preservation of their writing

A third party site is more likely to preserve your work in time than you remembering to pay and host your content.

That may be true. But a third-party site might also go out of business, throw up a paywall unexpectedly, or decided for some reason that what you wrote is not appropriate for the site and take it down.
>a personal blog or website on a personal domain is the most credible way to publish

100% agree.

Doing that also gives you a ton of street cred as opposed to writing on medium where you're right off the bat announcing to the world that you've basically surrendered your stuff to someone else the moment you finished writing it.

What are some platforms you'd recommend for non-tech folks who'd like to have a simple personal site+blog?
WordPress.com is easy to set up, has custom domains, and you could theoretically move it to another host pretty easily later (unlike SquareSpace). Bret Devereaux's history blog (acoup.blog) is hosted there, and it does very well here on HN.
He's a historian and can hardly be expected to perform the developer yak-shaving that is running your own blog infrastructure (and I mean that in the kindest possible way, as I run my own as well, but my wife and daughter are on WordPress, albeit hosted by me, because of the UI hurdles of Hugo).
Yep, the person I was replying to was asking for recommendations for non-techies. I wasn't about to recommend a static site generator...
There are SSGs with nice WYSIWYG UIs coming, including one for Hugo.

https://open.quiqr.org

That still leaves the question of how to handle site search and comments.

Thanks for your recommendation. I have used WordPress in the past. Although its been a few years, I found it cumbersome to set up a simple site; you often needed some custom plugins, most templates look archaic to me, and importantly, the loading speed was slower. I spent more time fixing something and troubleshooting than actually writing.

Right now, I am using a Notion website builder: https://super.so/ It serves my need as someone who wanted to have a personal website. More like a resume tbh. No bells and whistles. I am used to Notion so that’s another plus. And the page loads fairly quickly. However, I find that at $12/month, I could get better value elsehwere. Not to mention, I am unable to blog there.

One of the platforms that attract me is Ghost (https://ghost.org/vs/wordpress/). Open-source and I’ve found the websites there have a far more modern-look.

Own your presence on the web, don't be a sharecropper on Medium (or Blogger.com, or Wordpress.com, or any other plantation).

I used to run my own Wordpress blog (don't recommend it any more because of the security issues), now it's a Hugo blog hosted on AWS Cloudfront. Costs me about $4 to $5 a month to run.

With a Hugo blog there’s lots of hosting options. You can host on GitHub for free (paying for your own domain). I’ve been using the same random cpanel host for $30/year that has unlimited domains and sites.

It’s not trivial but was painless to set up. I think it’s kind of fun to see the various setups that devs use to host their stuff.

Medium isn’t a long term solution, so aside from its other problems (terrible aesthetic and UX), I’d still want some sustainability for hosting.

CloudFlare Pages is also free, although I've had no luck getting the SSL certificate part of it working. Plus I am not sure I want to support CloudFlare with its expanding grip on the web, like forcing users with cookie-blockers or VPNs to go through intrusive CAPTCHAs to access sites.
Agreed with that. Somewhat related, the biggest issue that I'm currently struggling with is whether or not to move our content to Substack to take advantage of their discovery mechanisms. I don't love the idea of giving up that degree of control. Curious if anyone has thoughts or experience on that front.
> Will I/my articles get negativity within dev and tech communities because they are written in Medium?

Not broadly, but definitely within the HN community, and probably a few others. But with that being said, I also don't think it will affect your ranking on HN negatively, at least not by much.

Medium articles regularly hits the frontpage (and as of writing this, there's a medium blogpost just below this poll on HN)

Medium was a textbook "free to gain traction, then paywall" bait and switch.
It's not like substack is much better. I can't recall a time in the last 5 years I've stumbled upon a substack or medium post that didn't feel like a waste of time. The only worthwhile sources seems to be small niche tech bloggers still keeping their head down in code the majority of the day (not selling stuff, just sharing their findings).
Aside from any stigma, I believe medium will PayPal your articles, so lots of people won’t be able to read them even if they wanted to.
Ugh - coulda saw this coming 5 yrs ago when Medium was “free” and well liked

Lesson learned again and again: all blogging platforms have a limited shelf life, and there really needs to be a better way to own your own content beyond self-hosting.

why not just make self hosting far easier
Some VPS providers are starting to do just that [1] with the theoretical goal of making it just a couple clicks to deploy web applications and provide automated backups. I have not personally used these services because I like to tinker and add things myself but I know that isn't for everyone.

[1] - https://www.linode.com/marketplace/category/website/

Thanks. I'm particularly interested in providers that I can easily resell / affiliate refer through my own software products, to let casual users self-host their UGC. Bunny.net CDN (I have no association, yet anyway) is one great example of that - prepaid (so no runaway bill risk with metered services), generous referral program ($20 on first spend), and low barrier to entry ($1 minimum spend, one time, which is plenty for many UGC use cases). But their services are still limited, no compute besides DNS scripting. Linode has a nice referral program at $20 per paid signup (90 day+) and fixed prepaid cost (though recurring, unlike Bunny). Cost of entry could be lower but not bad at $5/mo. However the onboarding experience is likely still bad for all these for casual b2c users.
We had cPanel years ago
These are indeed similar in spirit to cPanel, only difference being a tighter integration to VM/app deployment and the whole stack being tested. It's probably a little closer to a pre-configured cloud formation and cloud-init.
Just want to point out: creating, maintaining and hosting a blogging platform costs time and money.

The interests of anyone who wants to use a blogging platform without directly sharing those costs are very unlikely to align with those paying the costs. (I think it can be done, but will probably be very inefficient and susceptible to being out-competed for attention.)

WordPress.com seems to be doing just fine so far (17 years in!). They don't insert themselves between author and reader the way Medium and Substack do—unless you go looking you may never know a given blog uses them. They also still provide instructions for how to export to another host if and when you want to switch [0].

[0] https://wordpress.com/support/export/

Yes, for two reasons:

* The software: Medium somehow managed to make majority-plain-text articles slow to consume in modern web browsers, negating decades' worth of web browser optimizations.

* The culture: Medium is overrun with self-promoting "thought leader" types.

Agreed. The comment section on Medium is also buggy as hell. Its always jumping around up and down. How this simple functionality is not “solved” yet is beyond me.
I like polls on HN because sometimes the answer is nuanced, so on HN I can say "Yes, articles on Medium have a negative stigma" but then upvote @tyingq's and @thrtythreeforty comments that capture that nuance.
To me, Medium is a platform for those who desperately want to monetize text even (and mainly) if they have nothing to write about.
Very much this for me. It was so bad a couple of years back that I seriously considered writing a browser extension to hide and/or highlight medium posts so I would stop accidentally clicking on them.

The site has been better more recently, but the stigma is still there, at least for me.

(comment deleted)
Your own blog, as many have said, is probably the best.

When it comes to getting people to buy your articles: Well, I've never met a person who pays for their articles. Ever. Maybe you should sign up with a writing team that has a big website, I don't know, The Verge or something, and write there and get paid for it?

If it's for good SEO, well, as of now Google is flooded with low-quality, copied click-bait articles full of trackers, ads and spam.

I think problem about Medium is that too much of its content is written by desperate people who are actually trying to live off cents Medium is paying them. It creates a negative expectation of quality.
Can't have a stigma against the article if you can't read it.
Don’t know about stigma. I’m sure Medium is a business like many others. They are selling things. And I don’t particularly want to “buy” their products. Consequently, I don’t go to that shop.
Make your own web site. It’s hard to take “developer” articles seriously if they’re published on a platform intended for non-developers.
Disagree. I don't expect embedded engineers or language designers to take a large technology detour just to write.
Cloning the jekyll example repo on github then writing some markdown is not a large technology detour. Although I personally prefer hugo on gitlab.
So those hypothetical embedded engineers and language designers should evaluate how many options? You just enumerated two. I doubt they're the only ones.
They're all pretty much the same. You could choose any one at all and be much better off than using medium. It's easy to switch afterward anyway.
That's like saying you can't take a doctors advice seriously unless you are in the room at the doctor office.

Elitism at its best.

I mean how dare someone focus on writing and not on maintaining.

Yes, unfortunately. I speak only for myself though. I found some very good articles there and even then I couldn't help getting turned off when I read them because I associate them with the mountains of subpar material that get published there and the horrible reading experience.

A curated personal lightweight website attracts me more: see https://lemire.me/blog/ (Wordpress) https://lilianweng.github.io (powered by https://gohugo.io)

Medium or any kind of paywall sites need to be stopped.
I have nothing against the articles itself, but medium is way too heavy and regularly doesn't work in some browser / plugin combinations which is inexcusable for static articles of text and images
The best alternative IMO to medium.com from the reader's point of view is a personal blog. I much prefer them. However, if you want your articles to be found by people looking for them via Google. Probably best is putting them on Github or other non-scammy site with good page rank.

I noticed it is next to impossible to get personal blog articles in own domain onto Google search results unless they are specifically crafted for Google bot and not for a human reader (it seems to like a thousand words of introduction followed by a thousand words of historic context, then a lengthy personal anecdote and then at the very end - possibly on next page actual answer the reader is looking for).

This includes really niche subjects where almost no content exists. Google still favours showing you forums where people ask similar questions (unanswered). And lots of unrelated stuff rather than an actual blog post that has an exact answer+tutorial in under 300 words.

I personally dealt with indexing issues of numerous e-commerce projects I worked on and solution is almosrt always straightforward: more link mass. My humble personal blog of 5 pages and one single content-worthy article on it was always well indexed regardless of fact that I did nothing special for that.

I guess the best recipe to get your blog indexed is:

* Make sure you have robots.txt with correct host and sitemap.xml

* Link it everywhere: on your Linkedin, Github, Reddit and every profile.

* Make re-posts on social networks, reddit or other related resources.

* It must be fast and never down so reliable hosting with CloudFlare.

* Google loves when you have Google Analytics. Surprise surprise.

* Do add it to Google Webmaster so your search overloard can connect your domain to Google account.

So yeah people who hate CloudFlare and Google Analytics with passion are more likely to have issues to getting on google search result page.

>>So yeah people who hate CloudFlare and Google Analytics with passion are more likely to have issues to getting on google search result page.

This sounds like something the FTC and /or anti-trust should be looking into.

Yeah, but this is the world we live in. The more unusual your hosting setup is the more likely you'll get under some sort of filters.
It seems there is space for newer search engine then.
About half of your suggestions would not be effective. Source: am SEO consultant

>Make sure you have robots.txt with correct host and sitemap.xml

Yes, but no idea what is meant by correct host.

>Link it everywhere: on your Linkedin, Github, Reddit and every profile.

Yes, pagerank

>Make re-posts on social networks, reddit or other related resources.

Possibly. Much more helpful if your content is actually shared as opposed to you spamming it out

>It must be fast and never down so reliable hosting with CloudFlare.

Less important than most realize. As long as it’s not dog shit slow it’s probably fine

>Google loves when you have Google Analytics. Surprise surprise.

Utter nonsense. The anti trust blowback from this would be spectacular.

>Do add it to Google Webmaster so your search overloard can connect your domain to Google account.

It’s called Google Search Console now, not webmaster tools. Helpful for insights but zero effect on ranking.

I don't gonna argue that all of my suggestions gonna be effective. Any kind of SEO is always something between black box reverse engineering and voodoo magic: you just follow recommendations and pray it works.

> About half of your suggestions would not be effective. Source: am SEO consultant

I'll be honest here: it was mostly years ago, but I spent good chunk of my life doing some white and black hat SEO myself. I'm not very proud of some of it either. If you're actually working in this area then you well aware that figuring out what works and what doesn't take a lot of time and change constantly

What non-experts can do is to at least to follow some recommendations to get into search index. So I just shared some common tricks that I used myself and they cost nothing to implement.

> Yes, but no idea what is meant by correct host.

As correct host I meant the one target website is using. There are countless websites that have www-prefixed version in robots.txt while actually using non-prefixed domain and not having redirections. Also some of us might start blog on github pages and then forgot to specify correct host when moving it to independent domain, etc.

> Much more helpful if your content is actually shared as opposed to you spamming it out

I'm not suggesting anyone to spam something, but Google cant exactly guess who posted your blog post on reddit or why. Having some is better opposed to having zero ingoing links from social media.

> As long as it’s not dog shit slow it’s probably fine

Reliability is very important though. We're on HN and my guess that a lot of people there would love to host their blog on $10 linode / digitalocean test-server that also run VPN and torrent client and can be down for days after some experiment went wrong.

> Utter nonsense.

That just my personal experience. I dont argue that it will help you with rankings, but it's certainly make it less-likely to get under some anti-spam filter.

> Helpful for insights but zero effect on ranking.

Again it's not about rankings. But at least in past their "Indexing Tool" actually worked to make sure your new blog post actually there in search index.

Person above was complaining about his blog not being indexed at all. So if indexing tool is still there it's will help with this problem.

> >Google loves when you have Google Analytics. Surprise surprise.

> Utter nonsense. The anti trust blowback from this would be spectacular.

I've seen spend on ads heavily affect organic results. I wonder when anti trust will fix that

The ad is also an ad for the organic result below it.
I always assumed Google's business model requires the searcher to use Google Search some number of times per given search so they make their revenue goal from the user.

In that context what you describe is functioning exactly as intended. The searcher is certainly the product.

The trick to getting your blog content to show up in Google is to have other sites link to it. If you don't have any inbound links you're much less likely to rank.

Getting quality inbound links is tricky. First you have to write great content that people might want to link to... but if nobody hears about it that won't help much.

Back at the dawn of blogging there was a really strong culture of bloggers linking to and amplifying great content from each other. That activity mostly moved to places like Twitter - I'd love to see that happen more again.

I keep having a vague idea of a system or service that would be a sort of tinder for mutual links; if you like a blog, and the author of that blog likes yours, then your links would show up in each others footers in an embeddable widget of some kind. Lots of challenges to make it worthwhile, but it just keeps kicking around in the back of my head.
I suspect that link rings like that would get noticed by Google and flagged down eventually.
Not if those links are clicked by real people.
> The best alternative IMO to medium.com from the reader's point of view is a personal blog.

What are your favorite options for personal blogs? I'm strongly leaning towards self-hosted WP.

Static generators like HUGO hosted on Github Pages or some CDN.

Zero maintenance. Zero cost except for domain name.