Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?

473 points by dotdashdashdash ↗ HN
Sorry for the mini-rant, I’m just a bit lost at the moment. I don’t know whether it’s worth looking at changing careers, trying to stick with it or something else I haven’t thought of. I’ve been working in the industry for 14 years and feel like I’m old and jaded. I got a bit burnt out a couple of years ago working 70-hour weeks and haven’t been able to bounce back since. Now, whenever I’m coding, it just feels like an enormous effort to get anything done. I’ve tried to work on different projects and things that are more in line with my interests, but that hasn’t really seemed to help. I’ve worked in various management roles over the years and have been drawn more towards that side of things at the moment, mainly because it isn’t coding. I feel like I’m average at best as a manager, but I have ASD so there are a few aspects of it that I really struggle with. I feel like I could work on these aspects, but it will always be draining and it will never be easy the way coding used to be. The other problem with management is that most people want you in-house for that, whereas I enjoy the freedom of contracting.

Has anyone come back from being burnt out to love what they do again? If so, how did you manage to do it?

369 comments

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> I’ve tried to work on different projects and things that are more in line with my interests, but that hasn’t really seemed to help

I think once you hit burnout, you need to completely stop doing the activity entirely to really recover. Switching to a less draining variant helps before you hit full on burnout.

If you are in a position to do so I'd recommend taking 6 months out of work, and go and do something where you have no pressure to be productive. That might be personal projects. It might be travelling the world. If you have any hobbies or interests that you usually don't get as much time as you like pursue, then that might be a good starting point.

A 2 week vacation might also help if such a long break isn't practical for you.

Burn out is mostly a question of how your resources (energy, time, mental space, relaxation) are spent. In burn out, your resources are quickly drained. So it might be that what you do isn’t as important as how you do it. I was able to escape the worst of it through a lot of work with a professional. A good one will aid you in finding pleasure again in your life and work. From setting clear boundaries to how you look at time and your energy. It took me years though and a considerable amount of effort to do that as we are ingrained into patterns often that don’t or no longer serve us.
Yes, but never got back to 100% Lots of walks in the woods and figuring out what it is that motivates and making sure not to do things that are not that.
Coming back from a 2 week absence due to burnout right now. Problems I experienced are still there, so all I can really contribute is a guess that 2 weeks isn't enough of a gap to recover.
IME 6 months was closer to the time required (and I suspect returning to the same role would have caused an immediate relapse).
Yep I've actually got about ~17 days holiday left (I had a busy year) I think at least taking December off will help.
I took 3 months off and didn't look at a computer when I was burnt out. When I was interviewing for jobs after my break I felt pretty good, but less than a year into my new job I'm right back where I started.

I do think it's important to work with a psychologist to understand what aspects of your work are making you burn out. Simply taking a break and then diving back into a similar environment is a recipe for failure.

Yeah one mistake I made was promising myself I would catch up on some personal software development things. I didn't end up doing many of them, but always felt a sense of stress that I should've been spending time on them.

I should really have just stayed away from my computer altogether, you made the right choice.

Nope. Got burnt out after 3 years at a tech company. 7 years total in Silicon Valley. Quit. Took a break for a year. Moved to a different country. Recoverd.
You can definitely recover from burnout. The question is are you ready to face what happens after you recover? Because sometimes burnout is just burnout and you need a break. But other times burnout means you are on the wrong path, and you’ve got to make some kind of turn in your career.
Yes, it's possible. Give yourself time to recover, as long as it takes, and time after that to rediscover the joy. That may mean, for a little while, grinding away at some kind of unsatisfying but low-stress job while doing your own little "joy" projects in your spare time, or training in a new platform/language just to remind yourself of the fun of starting again from scratch.

Nobody says you have to be a manager, or take a permanent role. This time is a gift - an opportunity to sidestep whatever "career track" you thought you were expected to follow and instead figure out your own values and priorities - it sounds like you've already gone along way towards that, at least you know what you don't want.

We are uniquely blessed in this business with such a wide range of opportunities and modes of working. The rise of remote work has only made that better. Be kind to yourself, and remember that despite whatever kind of imposter syndrome may be lurking in the back of your head, you most likely have an extremely valuable skill set that continues to be in demand around the world.

Also, like me, you may have to accept that you are getting older and can't rely quite so much on having that super-sharp working memory to hold an entire codebase in your head and stay focused for hours on end. A lot of my burnout came from putting unreasonable expectations on myself. Once I started taking a lot more notes, drawing a lot more diagrams, and asking a lot more questions I actually found I became more efficient than when I was relying on mental capacity alone. And it became much easier to take breaks and tolerate interruptions.
I am starting to realize that if I don't write things down, then they won't stick around.

I've procrastinated writing things down because it would take more time and effort than its worth -- If I just think a bit longer and harder, then the solution will come, and I won't have to waste all the time it takes to write everything out.

Recently, I have noticed this usually fails, and when I end up writing things down, then I come to the realization that actually writing things down would have saved more time in the first place. It was merely my assumptions, laziness, and arrogance that cost me more time.

> Give yourself time to recover

This worked for me. I had to first admit that I wasn't okay, then I had to change the expectations I had of myself.

I had to get comfortable enforcing boundaries (i.e. say no), which was made easier by changing jobs (because I had an opportunity to set expectations with my employer). I also had to gain some better soft skills to make 'no' sound more reasonable, which was a challenge at first, but has served well since.

The other huge factor that made it possible for me was financial stability. It is much easier to set boundaries when I have money to survive an unplanned job hunt.

Don't feel bad, I think this happens to a lot of us.

TLDR: learn to chill and enjoy your career and free time doing the things you like most, with the people you like the most.

I decided to get back to a technical role (from management) because it's what got me excited about tech in the first place; but I have become very protective of my time.

MY TIME is just that, and not for sale, and non-negotiable.

I don't mind not being the best in the room, and I feel it's better that my younger colleagues get a chance to take charge while I provide support when needed.

Focus on the important things, family, hobbies, friends, building your network, and enjoying your free time. In tech you can always have a nice career and a nice salary, even if you're not at "the top"... learn to chill and enjoy your career and the wonderful opportunity you have in this golden age of technology because it won't last forever.

It usually takes a switch (new project/company/client) for me.
I recommend not trying to fight the burnout (you're clearly still in it) and if your economic situation can handle it - lessen the hours, take 1 year off? take 2 years off?
I've been completely burnt out several times to the point of rancid bitterness. And I have completely bounced back to innocent like joy.

Find a healthy environment with a truly meaningful mission and work with people who are sincere, care and are not there for the money.

It is possible to get joy back into your working life.

Now, whenever I’m coding, it just feels like an enormous effort to get anything done.

Perhaps it always was, but in the past you were brute-forcing the solution to the problem by throwing more hours at it and now you're not.

No, there definitely is a difference. It is so large that one doesn't have to measure it. But if you were to measure it then it would be something like 5-10x reduction in focus time available per day/week. You cannot possibly compensate for that by spending more time on work/projects.
I found that just moving teams and dropping a load of baggage made a huge difference and a huge improvement.

I also found that regular physical exercise outside (running for me) is a game changer and totally allows your brain to disconnect.

Finally, don't guilt trip yourself on your free time. There is nothing you "should" be doing on your spare time. Want to code? Fine. But do you really? Want to just veg out and watch Netflix? Also fine. Want to do some "junk food" gaming? Do it. Hang out with friends family and loved ones? I encourage that. Don't pressure yourself about open source projects or side hustles etc.

+1 for sport and moving to another team.
Similar for me, I noticed that the thing that lead to burnout was the politics around work, not the work itself. I changed companies and was happy till I got myself in the same political nightmare. If you find yourself in the same position, change the project/company, it will make a big difference for a while. Try to find a company with a healthy management/culture for a long term fix (if you want to spend more than 2-3y in one place), this is very hard thing to come by.
I just assume there is no healthy management culture anywhere for American companies, especially not with MBAs continually poisoning the well. It’s finding what you can tolerate and still maintain your self worth and sanity.
+1 Start doing Callisthenics. 100 pushups, 100 pullups, 100 squats and 6 miles of run every day will help you immensely. Eliminate excuse's.
This is great advice, but a mile without stopping is a huge achievement if you haven't been a runner before.
I could crank out a mile easily. At least a person can just run slowly. 100 pullups though? That just ain't happening
This reads like a humble brag. You don't typically recommend "start exercising" then suggest a daily workout that even professional athletes wouldn't do
It is a joke -- it's the exercise regime used by one punch man to become stronger than a god
As impressive as this regime is if you can do it, I'd recommend most people start a little slower and mix it up a little more - this kind of highly repetitive strain will burn out your body, just as the insane work schedule burnt you out.

Start slow, throw in some yoga or tai chi and build up those joints and tendons - they don't increase in strength as quickly as muscles do.

Doing this will make you strong enough to win any fight with just one punch, too
Side effects also include going bald, so consider carefully
+1 on regular exercise - it makes a huge difference! We are not built to sit all day.
Yeah, it's your coworkers/manager — exercise is a requirement (should be required by the company).

Code is code, but if you have a cool manager and coworkers it can make it enjoyable. Particularly, for myself, I liked management that gave me autonomy, trusted me to write a framework without feeling the need to hand-hold.

Exercise breaks (I started out running, switched to walking when I got older) were something I used to feel guilty about — going out for a run/walk in the middle of a work day. I always wanted to be the guy who always had their nose to the grindstone.

As I got older (and more seniority, I suppose) I got over the guilt by just saying fuck 'em, health is more important. In fact though my productivity and ... code fidelity? ... likely improved. Often I left on the 20 minute walk with my head in a programming fog, returned with a succinct plan on how to proceed before the next programming hurdle reared its head.

Absolutely +1 on the exercise. For me it's road biking. I just hop on farm roads and ride for hours listening to Audible, podcasts, or nothing at all and just enjoy the scenery.

Also - and I can't stress this enough - absolutely use your vacation time. And when you do, utterly disconnect from work. Turn "do not disturb" on your phone and other devices and not only don't answer work emails, don't even look at email, slack, etc.

I agree with the comment about doing whatever it is that will relax you. Sometimes that is just binge watching the latest Netflix show. But, if you work from home, I've found that absolutely nothing beats GOING somewhere for your vacation time. I - and friends who also WFH - find that just being at home on vacation can still be emotionally draining. Even a 4 day weekend away from home doing something completely different can be very recharging.

Even if I've come back to work and had to fix things others "broke" because they had to work around me not being there, I was much happier with that than if I did any work during my time away. And it also pointed out to me where documentation and knowledge was lacking or tools could be improved, etc. ;)

> I also found that regular physical exercise outside (running for me) is a game changer and totally allows your brain to disconnect.

> Finally, don't guilt trip yourself on your free time. There is nothing you "should" be doing on your spare time.

Don't you think these two pieces of advice are conflicting?

'I need to be reading docs on the latest <X> release to determine if we need to upgrade...' is moreso what he meant I think.
Weightlifting is the best anti-depressant I've ever tried.
Burning out is working for something which is not your purpose or not knowing your purpose. If it were your purpose in life you could work without burning out. It’s all in your mind.
It's not that simple but there is still something core to what you say. For instance you may burn out at one company, but not at another.
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Burnout is kinda like an injury, it makes new injuries more likely and you need to train around it.

I think there are a few things that I've found that always help:

* Removing the source of frustration or the thing that is burning you out -- this might mean quitting a toxic job, reducing hours, whatever. But be honest with yourself, ask for somebody who you talk to a lot to give input on what they think it is and listen.

* Rest. This doesn't have to mean "do nothing" but it can. I think a lot of people do nothing for not enough time. A 2 week vacation and then back to the grind, you may find yourself feeling fresh and re-burnt out in less time than you were gone. I'd say rest more accurately means "do something that is easy but keeps you active" or "do things you've neglected, but don't push the area you're frustrated". I find that working on something that's lower stakes or requires less back and forth and allows me to think through and fix without questions of my dedication or intention are most helpful for me, but for you it might be something else. If burnout is around coding, managing a complex, non coding problem might be helpful. I have friends who have done home improvements or setup beer brewing etc to focus their skills on somewhere lower stakes.

* Do recovery "exercises". If big projects or coding has burnt you out, slowly introduce it in a healthy manner, accounting for the changes you made by removing frustration. This should feel like the most difficult part, because you're attempting to do something new. Introduce the thing you want to do but you've been prevented because of burn-out and try slowly to do it while addressing any strains the source of your injury immediately. This might mean having more candid discussions with managers or team members to prevent toxic patterns from emerging. This may mean tempering expectations early or setting clearer boundaries. Do the hard thing and prevent re-injury. Taper, and don't increase capacity until you're sure you're gaining energy rather than losing it again.

* Be patient. I've been burnt out pretty badly with projects and it's taken several months of healthy, quiet coding in the back seat of a good team to feel well rested again. It's given me a lot of time to assess what went wrong, what I liked and what I have missed about my time resting. I'd say probably 6mo for just a single terrible 2 months of work. Be patient and trust the process.

I'm burned out from spending a couple of years in meaningless corporate jobs, and now that I found a more challenging job I truly love, I'm finding myself unable to hit the bar. All of are insightful and actionable tips, thank you so much for the great advice!
No problem. I'm by no means an expert, just a sufferer of burnout myself and a friend to a few people I've seen struggle with it.

I think sometimes the unfortunate news you'll learn is that you did something during your career path that felt right, but put you in the wrong situation down the road. The type of change that's needed to correct that might be learning something new, applying to jobs you'll love more that are perceived as "beneath your ability" or simply changing trajectory.

My biggest fear after my burnout was that I'd killed my passion for the rest of my life but I was able to take a year off (after 6 years non stop) and now I'm back at it for 2 years now with the same vigor I had when I started.

There is a good chance you can see 80% of the benefit by taking only 20% of the time off that I did. Start with a 2 week vacation and then notice how after 2 days you're itching to get back to work on something. Resist the urge, let it build. After two weeks go back to work and find that your first week back is great but don't get demoralized when your 2nd week you find yourself in the same rut. Your weekends are 32 waking hours (almost a full work week) where you can pursue activities that are not work and can be your own vacation (32 hours ~= 40) if you get up early and get out.

If that doesn't work then think seriously about taking 6 months off and see where your hobbys/desires take you.

Good luck!

I've managed to go from thoroughly burned out to functioning again without quitting my job. But it always feels like I'm teetering on the edge of burning out again. Previously I had burned out and did a career switch which helped for a while.

I don't know how much useful advice I can offer but I think my own problem is lack of self discipline. I end up working when I should not be. Whenever I can muster the self-discipline to stick to a proper schedule things seem to get better.

Yes. I have burnt out a couple of times. Given enough time and rest, you will reset. But my suggestion is that after you feel recovered, get into therapy to find out the root causes that got you into burn out in the first place.

It's hard work but it will pay off both for you and your near ones :)

"Yes. I have burnt out a couple of times" a couple of times? Dang. My near-burnout scared me so much, i can't even imagine surviving a couple.
Yes, but only after making peace with not 'striving', and making some larger shifts in how my life is set up.

I experienced major burnout after a 4 year stint in an early stage startup, and I walked away. I had a six week break which was wonderful, but the next step I took after that was essentially a similarly stressful (but rehigh profile) job. I lasted a year.

Now I have a less prestigious job, at a less recognisable (but much more compassionate) company. I've moved out of the big tech hub city and now I work remote. I'm much, much happier, and have something approximating a healthy work life balance. I can walk to quiet woodland from my house, where I work, which helps.

The hardest step, which still troubles me from time to time, is stopping striving. I could be earning more, have a better job title, etc. But I remind myself I don't want those things more than I want a fundamentally comfortable life with ample time to spend with family and friends.

I did.

I got really burnt out at the beginning of the pandemic. Ended up quitting my job and taking some time off. For a long while, just thinking of doing coding projects would fill me with disgust.

After about 9 months, I decided to make an app for the workout program I was following (5/3/1) as I didn’t like the ones out there or using spreadsheets. Working on something where I was user 0 was tons of fun and reminded me of why I liked coding in the first place. The fact that the response to the app was great did help too.

Can’t say that it would work for everyone, but this got me unburnt out. I just started a new job now and am loving it.

I just had somewhat of a burnout last winter and left my job. I'm lucky enough that I could take a couple months off to get back in shape mentally and physically.

Invest in yourself however you can, that means doing some sport you love and/or go see a therapist. What I'm realizing is that I have a lot of power over how I feel, way more than I previously believed. Make a conscious effort to let go of negative thoughts when they arise.

Make sure your house is in order, it's an extension of yourself. Do whatever you need to feel satisfied, it's your life. It is a mistake not to live it the way you want to. Be kind and patient with yourself.

Good luck.

Can you afford sabbatical? At least a few months, but possibly more. I was able to reset it that way.
I have fantasized about having a sabbatical. I wonder if I'm paying the balance, or the interest, off of my burnout.
Take long holidays. 6 months minimum traveling around. if you have a family, or a tight mortgage - I'm sorry for you. As I don't have a straight answer. but 6 months away from keyboard is a strict minimum.

It worked for me every time.

> It worked for me every time.

How many times? I am trying to cope with the recurrent nature of burnout.

If burnout is recurring, might I suggest therapy to figure out why you keep burning out.
Yes. I switched careers for a while after being burnt out with tech and that helped me realize just how good I had it doing something I mostly enjoy. I do think the break itself also helped. Even the best musicians in the world sometimes take a break from the grind of regular practice and performing. Recharging your batteries is well worth it and nothing to feel guilty about.

> whenever I’m coding, it just feels like an enormous effort to get anything done

What does feel effortless and get you in the flow? If the answer is "nothing", get checked out for depression. If the answer is something else, then maybe you've simply outgrown coding as a pleasurable activity. It happens.