Ask HN: HNers with multiple sclerosis, can we get in touch?

355 points by mush_room ↗ HN
I was diagnosed with MS 15 years ago, and was doing pretty well for a long time, but with the pandemic experienced a tremendous amount of stress that has left me with my first major flare-up since diagnosis and, more importantly, developing over the past 3 years, a feeling in my brain that feels like having been lobotomized, and symptoms like "mild" dementia. Difficulty multitasking, make silly mistakes, mentally tired easily, emotional issues, etc.

The MS was so far outside my concerns for all these years that I didn't know about the cognitive effects of MS (though I retrospect I realize I had some milder form of these symptoms all along), but I now understand MS causes brain atrophy and damage irrespective of flare-ups and lesions.

I've tried many things to make it better over this past year especially, but it's getting worse. It's quite evidently different from depression, it feels like I've lost part of my brain, which seems to be what's happening with MS.

I'm posting this in hopes I can get in touch with others with MS that are programmers and are doing well, and have found ways to make this better, or have gone through periods where they felt like this and it improved. I can't imagine living like this with worsening, I don't have any support from family and any savings (lost an enormous amount of life-changing money few years ago), my programming abilities have waned, and if I can't support myself in the future I'm going to end up homeless.

I want to believe I can do something, that there is hope, perhaps medical advances, or anything I could do.

If you want to get in touch my email is mush_room_hn at protonmail.com. (but you could also reply here)

244 comments

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I’m a programmer with MS. Like you, diagnosed about 15 years ago, but still doing pretty well. I feel like I’m starting to notice the gradual decline more and more, despite not having had a serious clinical relapse for about 10 years (some minor ones).

Things you can try: Changing your drugs - maybe going for something drastic like HSCT.

Being patient and not panicking - if you’re currently having flare ups your symptoms will appear worse than they really are while there’s acute inflammation happening. Don’t forget that. If the flare ups get under control you’ll should see some recovery and improvement.

Not giving up - keep pushing yourself as hard as you can, make sure you’re training whatever’s left of your central nervous capacity. There’s probably still some left. Keep trying to do as much as you can and you’ll get access to it.

Thank you. May I ask what are you planning for yourself in the future? I've heard that HSCT is not recommended after 40. Are you on any drugs and have they helped?
I’m doing ok on ocrelizumab ( 3rd year just done) and had a good innings with natalizumab before that. In the UK I’m not eligible for HSCT unless I relapse on ocrelizumab. That may change of course.

I’m not sure whether HSCT is right for me given that it has some pretty big downsides. My latent symptoms are well controlled at the moment and don’t affect my quality of life too much. If I had to manage a thyroid disorder as a result of HSCT I’m not sure that would be an improvement for me.

I thought HSCT could halt the disease entirely, but I'm not sure... It's the silent progression of the disease that worries me.
Me too. I can see on my MRIs that my brain mass is decreasing, even though there are no new lesions. I'm not quite 40 years old yet and am physically and mentally very active. Does it matter? Time will tell...
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I have MS and definitely didn't know that the secondary progressive form of the disease was just a matter of time. Now I'm slowly losing the right side of my body after years of being in remission with numbness in my hands being the only symptom. There are definitely medical advances. The one I'm most excited about is nervgen. It's regenerative without the radiation and terribleness of stem cells. But it's only starting phase two trials. Hang in there, it sucks but the doctors reassure me that it's a good time to have MS as thirty years ago there were no treatments. Now there is the walking pill to help nerves conduct and it really works for me. There are also dmts that slow the progression or stop future lesions.
What do you mean by “the walking pill”?
Google says "(dalfampridine) Extended Release Tablets, 10 mg, is the first and only brand prescription medicine indicated to help improve walking in adults with multiple sclerosis (MS). This was demonstrated by an increase in walking speed."
Can confirm. It helps me out. It is a potassium channel blocker that somehow improves nerve conduction in the lower body. It has been available at compounding pharmacies for a very loving time. A company took that, made it a time release pill, went through the FDA hoops, and then released it as Ampyra. Like all MS drugs it was super expensive. Now the generic is available. Still expensive, the number I see is something like $1100 a month. My pharmacy told me they bill the insurance company $180 lol.

If you don’t have insurance or it doesn’t want to cover it, you can get a prescription and a compounding pharmacy can make it for you. If they don’t do time release you’ll have to dose every 3 hours or so. It’s a lot less expensive though. Last time I checked it was less than $100 a month.

What do you mean by “terribleness of stem cells”?
Stem cell therapy (autologous) involves wiping out your entire immune system and then rebuilding it from scratch using your own stem cells. It uses (usually) strong chemo drugs to do the wiping out, which themselves are toxic and have tons of side effects. You are rendered weak, with a high risk of secondary infection that requires you to basically isolate yourself until your immune system recovers. It’s very unpleasant. Close family member is currently in the midst of it for multiple myeloma, and spent an extra week in the hospital from secondary infection.
Wow, I had no idea. Interesting, thanks.
Thank you.

I will look into nervgen, initial search results say something about spinal cord neurons, is there anything for the brain?

Lastly, I'm not on a DMD, which one are you on, or would you recommend? I didn't understand they slow the brain atrophy part of the disease progress, do all or just some of them do?

I take ocrevus and it's supposed to slow progression.
It's not necessarily just a matter of time, but many R/R turn into progressive.
I would like that to be not so but my understanding is that MS is a continuous process from the start, and that the relapsing/progressive distinction is mainly a factor of its effects relative to age.
"one million people with MS in the United States in 2022, and in 2020, about 2.8 million people were affected globally"

Is there a reason why the US is affected more?

It doesn’t have to be affected more, just diagnostics in US might be better. People in outer parts of the world might not be getting diagnosed and cared for.
On the other hand, many other places have much more accessible health care with similar or better quality.

Definitely some selection bias in there, but not "the US vs the world".

My impression is that there's a lot of discretion in an MS diagnosis, that it's a set of symptoms with no other identified cause. I.e., it's like a process of elimination.

I don't know much about MS so I can't make any claim really, but it seems like there might be room for those symptoms to be interpreted very differently in other countries with different training and testing protocols.

This is likely measurement bias - a statistical distortion caused by more easily available or better-working diagnostics.

(for the same reasons, some countries want to reduce CoViD testing so it appears there are fewer cases, exploiting this distortion.)

If the link in this comment is accurate, part of it could be that Americans eat terrible food. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33297849
I'm not American, but I doubt I would have gotten MS were it not for terrible diet, stress, lack of sleep, various deficiencies at the time of diagnosis but also during childhood. Also had a very bad bout of mononucleosis when I was 10 (while also being malnourished), so these things can go quite far. So I think my nervous and immune systems were always frail.
So sorry to hear. As of 2022 there is enough evidence for a causal link between EBV (the virus that also is behind mononucleosis) and MS later in life. The hope is that humanity will eventually have strong drugs and maybe a vaccine. Unfortunately, progress has been very slow until now. I hope things will move faster now that people could convincingly argue about this link between a virus and the disease.
And right next door, Canada is #1.

<rant> When you look at the geographic distribution of MS you would think there might be a pathogen involved. Clearly there are other factors (genetic, environment?) since not everybody gets it, but there is evidence on the map.

Modern DNA techniques should make it possible to search for a culprit but if you don't "believe" that a pathogen is a possibility you will never search for it.</rant>

Yes there is probably a particular virus that’s involved. It is EBV, unfortunately a very common virus that can get reactivated by COVID-19. The picture only got clear this year and there are no great therapies or vaccines yet. In this study from earlier this year, the chance of active military developing MS was 32-times (3,200%) higher for people who had EBV vs those that had other common viruses: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj8222
Thanks for the link. This put me on notice that EBV might also be responsible for other neuralgic disorders since it hangs around forever. It also points to investigating the rest of the Herpes family IMHO.

If we could acknowledge/prove that some of these viruses are dangerous long after initial infection, it might prompt the development of an EBV vaccine. Not sure if Herpes would respond to vaccines. Put it on the list with Human Leukemia/Lymphotropic virus Type 1.

Lots affected in scandinavia. The doctors claim scandinavian genetics predict higher incidence. But it could be a confounding factor.
MS is more common in rich countries. My speculation is that rich people spend more time indoors, away from the sun.
What shot did she take? My mum has MS for… 8 years now? She got diagnosed when she broke her wrist and it didn’t heal and has been on meds ever since. She’s had 2 shots and a booster and is totally fine. She’s 75. She had Pfizer.

Edit: had>has

Pfizer for all 3 shots.

Also, forgot to note, she also has Tinnitus now which did not appear until after taking the booster. Definitely something odd...

Fwiw I got bad tinnitus after contracting covid. I was quite distraught after a week of loud ringing. But it’s been going away and is almost gone about five months later.
I first almost lost hearing, then as it came back over the weeks I got tinnitus, then over 4 months it's gone, back to normal since catching Cov
It’s reassuring to hear stories like this to know it’s possible.
At least I assume it's back to normal. Lots of things changed in my life around the same time, so I don't have perfect reference. But I am happy to report I hear the ringing of my wireless router again.
yeah, about week of loud ringing for me too. started about 5 days in. then another week of manageable loudness.
Yep, and worst of all. Her doctor seems quite hesitant to link (or even recognize) any of these after-affects from the COVID shots to MS. Very frustrating to say the least.
did she PCR test for covid?
Yes, a few times. Always comes back negative.
Damn, I really hope my mum doesn't get worse :(

I have Tinnitus since I was quite young, I used to complain when going into the lounge cos the TV made it worse. Thankfully after having covid and 3 pfizer shots mine hasn't got worse.

Have you heard of/has your wife tried low dose naltrexone (LDN)? Major disclaimer - I’m not a doctor/this isn’t medical advice, but LDN has been found somewhat helpful for MS (and a lot of autoimmune conditions) - a friend recommended it to me after he benefited from it himself for his autoimmune condition.

LDN is also apparently gaining interest for long covid (https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...).

I wish the best for your wife.

Thanks for the reply. No, I don't believe her doctor has mentioned LDN (yet). I will ask.

She is trying to do as much as she can w/out getting more meds. For now, she has been managing her stress as best she can as well as going to a physical therapist to help with the dizziness, muscle soreness, etc. The therapy has helped quite a bit, but the issues still persist. We hope these conditions just go down over time...

A family member went on a diet that helped out considerably. It is grain free, lectin free, and nightshade free. It's a hard diet to follow, but the results have been tremendous.

This family member knows almost immediately if they have accidentally consumed one of these.

Do your research, and if you decide to try this diet, set yourself up mentally for following it very strictly for one month to see what the results might be. You will need to stay away from restaurant and pre-prepared foods

Thank you. I have been experimenting and evolving with diets since shortly after diagnosis. The first year I was symptomatic but it went away pretty dramatically after starting Paleo, I believe because general inflammation went down.

I'm also pretty sure that I'm doing so badly because of the stress I've experienced during the pandemic, really at a level I couldn't imagine, and, having forgotten I have MS, I didn't do nearly enough to counter it and instead used coffee and dairy, two things known to be avoided with MS (by some patients at least, doctors IME don't even mention it).

I would do anything and sacrifice anything if it could remedy the current issue, but it seems it's more related to some longer-term evolution that doesn't respond to these things... We'll see. I've only quit coffee about 2 weeks ago when I definitely noticed my legs going numb after running wasn't because or overexertion... And then I made the connection with my cognitive issues.

Moving to an entirely plant based diet has made all the difference in the world for me. It isn’t a cure, but excellent nutrition makes a HUGE difference.

Eating entirely plant-based can also be done very very cheaply if you’re careful.

Walking or other gentle exercise is essential - it’s hard. It hurts. But it WILL slow down the progression of the disease. Keep moving!

Do some reading about your legal rights - if you have a diagnosed case of MS in the United States, you have all kinds of ways of protecting yourself from job termination. If your HR department isn’t evil, they should help you here. If they are evil, keep careful records of everything so you can sue the crap out of them if they fail to protect you as the law requires.

Don’t give up! It’s a disease, not an identity. Don’t let it define you or control your thinking.

You’ve got this.

Some people cheer for the opposite: that a carnivore diet (or animal product only, but dairy/milk/cheese is bad and highly inflammatory for many) is what essentially cured them of mainly ailments.

So, just to put that balanced perspective to OP.

The conclusion from such dietary changes always seems to be that being more conscious about your food is key. High quality ingredients, no pesticides or enhancers that are meant to make crap taste less crap. Then in the end it doesn't matter whether you go carnivor or vegan or whatnot. Just don't eat everything deep-fried or full of refined sugars.
Well, I fully agree with your first two sentences. Then genetics likely are the next in line for what is healthy, not harmful, for your body.
I forgot about the dairy part - also dairy free.

The brain fog can sneak up on you. Try to keep a journal of everything you're eating and how you're feeling. It will help you notice issues and track them down.

I thought following AIP was very helpful but I couldn't follow it for more than a year.
Not MS but I had brain fog for a year after having Covid.
I've read somewhere that long Covid presents with demyelination just like MS... I so much forgotten about having MS that at times I wondered if I didn't get covid unknowingly, because they symptoms some people described were so similar to what I'm feeling.
I too am a developer with MS. Got my first real flareup when I was 25 years old, I'm 28 now. I'm on ocrelizumab (Ocrevus), which should help prevent new flareups.

The whole work from home movement, really helped me, I now work 4/5 days from home and it allows me to easily take a break and make sure I don't get too much stress. Also no stressful commute.

So really the only advice I can give is to try to avoid stress. Which is easier said than done, but things that gave me a lot of stress before MS, hardly generate any now, because when put into context with the first flareup and losing the ability to move the fingers of my left hand, most things seem only minor.

I’m lucky to have lovely, smart person in my life who lives with MS. Thank you for sharing you story. You are by no means alone in this and your concerns are shared by many others who live with MS. I will send you an email shortly, but for others with similar stories that read this in the future, I high recommend the local groups from the MS Society (https://www.nationalmssociety.org/Resources-Support/Find-Sup...), reaching out to a team member at the Elliot Lewis Center (https://elliotlewisms.com/multiple-sclerosis-care-team/) even if you aren’t a patient along with following their materials on social media which provide Q&A on the latest case information and especially critical during the pandemic when information on MS-specific was limited/unknown, ensuring you are on a best-in-class treatment that meets your needs (which for many people in the US will be Ocrevus, https://www.ocrevus.com/), given the level of impairment you may qualify for state and federal programs in the US so call the SSA at 1-800-772-1213 (https://www.nationalmssociety.org/Living-Well-With-MS/Work-a...) to ensure you know what you need to do to ensure you are always supported financially in your journey, and if you are still physically active, I’d also suggest the free trips for MS patients with First Descents (https://firstdescents.org/programs/programs-application/).

There are a lot of resources in the US, but it’s hard to do it all alone. Unless you know someone who has been through it, it’s hard to navigate so try to get an MS Navigator assigned from the MS Society as well, which is completely free. You can call M-F 9am-7pm ET at 1-800-344-4867.

I hope this helps others living with MS.

I'm not in the US but I hope your post helps someone, appreciate it.

Would you mind sharing your wife's experience with Ocrevus? I hear it's available where I live as well, but reflexively searching for side-effects some people don't do well at all with it. But I would like to hear how it benefited her if you will. Thank you.

Have you read Breath by James Nestor (or the audiobook)? Not sure if that would help, but it couldn't hurt.
I just want to recommend https://overcomingms.org/recovery-program/diet

My wife has relapsing remitting MS and manages it very effectively with this diet.

It’s not easy — cutting out lots of fats - but doing so has a really positive impact: reducing myelin damage, slowing progression and reducing relapses.

It sounds silly to mention, but for a person just in remission, it's hard to identify what helps since progression of the disease is not very visible. Fortunately enough, but it would be good to get on track with a helping diet.
I'm putting my faith in the idea that reducing "leaky gut" is the key, along with eliminating allergens like dairy. I was doing pretty well all these years mostly avoiding coffee, dairy, and other things that increase leaky gut like MCT oil. My worst symptoms happened recently as I did all these things. The diet I'm on is meat-based, or, more illustratively, fiber-free. From my understanding fiber can often be actually harmful for leaky gut.

I've avoided mentioning this too much in the comments because I didn't want to seem to be advertising this, although for full transparency, I feel that I must. It's just what I feel is the best best... I've also started (very) high-dose vitamin D, so-called "Coimbra protocol", which really needs doctor supervision which I don't currently have but will promptly.

Also had it for 15 years, I was sharper in my 20s than now but now and I think age and MS have affected that. I realise I'm at my best when not stressed, well rested and happy. However I'm not always in control of those. Stress is easier to deal with as I talk to my employers about my condition and I avoid anything stressful when possible. I still feel useless some days and have bad brain fog and can't think clearly, it gives me a lot of imposter syndrome.

Im currently moving somewhere else to get better rest. And my happiness is in progress, I tried anti depressants but I get anxiety and I tried CBT but it didn't work either. I do also swim regularly which helps too but still not enough. Im hoping this move will help. However its gone on for so many years that I think I will seek a professional soon.

Covid and the pandemic definitely affected me, I couldn't walk properly for weeks after recovering from it. I used to do 20min walk every day to recover and just to keep active and get out. My depression got worse (was getting CBT in days before lockdown) but a few friends of mine play regularly online so I got to be social at least and talk about it. To add to this, I also quit my job before lockdown to travel so I was unemployed for a year in pandemic. I remember going to cafes when things partially opened to practise interview questions and did little projects. I finally got a job the next year.

I'm still worried I won't be strong enough to travel one day, my max distance walking is 1.5km, give or take, without a rest, I could go a lot further only a few years ago.

I know MS affects everyone differently and it can be a very hidden condition. My life could of been quite different without it but it could have been worse. Im lucky to have found a job coding and the silver lining of the pandemic is wfh. I see it like you have to play with the cards your dealt and whatever you can change for the better then try to. It's not been an easy road till now but I try and remain hopeful for the future.

I know it must be even harder considering your circumstances and your health. I hope this helps to know your not alone at least.

Thank you. I hope you do better, it's heartbreaking how things can change with this.
Thank you! Me too :)
Consider adding in some ongoing physical therapy to target the muscles that are getting weak signals. This helps them remain stronger for longer and reduces the burden on other muscles that compensate.

There is also a drug that can help you walk faster, if your doctor can proscribe. It idd not work for me but I am told for those that it works for it is helpful. Dalfampridine.

Hey buddy. I suffer from a remitting/relapsing autoimmune disease called UC that has me urgently sprinting to the toilet 15 to 20 times a day. Sometimes it feels like I’m chained to it, and can only wander so far until the shits strike again. It’s chronic and wears down on my mental health in similar ways. It’s progressive, so one day my colon may need to get replaced with a bag that dangles outside my body so that my natural butthole will be able to go on retirement forever.

The one major observation that I’ve made from all this is the role that stress plays. Reducing stress seems to have a powerful inhibitory effect. Practicing positive self talk (and catching yourself when you say anything negative to yourself) and moving the body with yoga also seems to help. Getting adequate sleep and nutrition is critical. I’m also convinced that being open minded to both Western medicine and Eastern cultural traditions (diet, yoga, Taoism, etc) has played a role in slowing my disease progression.

Thank you very much. That seems rough. For whatever it's worth, I need to share this, as I had stumbled upon this person who recovered from UC with a meat-only diet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX7LzKEMTpU.

I'm getting more into the eastern tradition, I think the mind can heal and can cause disease in an of itself. I need to delve deeper into it.

Sorry to hear that you going through that. Not and MS patient personally, but I've been going to a special clinic in Mexico for more than 10 years and MS is one of the conditions they treat. I've met quite a few MS patients there who achieved life-changing results after doctors in the states and EU had failed to help them.

This clinic helped me overcome a toxic mold exposure that was producing autoimmune and neurological issues that various doctors in the states were unable to effectively diagnose or treat. (They were happy to take my money though) A few year later, I was hit by a drunk driver in Nicaragua and doctors in the states told me I was going to need multiple surgeries and need to adjust my expectations for what healing looked like. With help from this clinic, I was able to recover from that with no surgeries and have no residual issues whatsoever.

The important thing here is that you keep a mindset that healing is possible, and keep exploring options until you find what works. Don't get bogged down envisioning worst-case scenarios. Be vigilant of your thoughts and any time you find yourself going into those fear-based scenarios, do a pattern interrupt and replace them with positive thoughts. For me, the visions I used to replace those fears was seeing myself hiking in the mountains with my dog, feeling healthy and strong. A few years into my healing journey, I found myself doing exactly that. Hiking above the treeline on Mt Shasta with my Malinois, feeling strong in my body, with clean mountain air in my lungs. I sat down and wept tears of gratitude.

Keep pressing forward. It gets better.

Sending you an email.

I'm sorry to sound negative, but what you are saying about this "clinic in Mexico" sounds too good to be true. And everybody knows that when something sounds too good to be true ...

More concretely, are you suggesting that US and European doctors are ignoring science about MS and just take the money? And the Mexican doctors at this clinic somehow magically have a cure which the rest of the world, at least the western world, ignores to ... enrich themselves?

Seriosly, this sounds very dubious. I'd caution the poster to get into fishy recommendations and blindly trust a stranger on the internet based on hope. Especially out of desperation.

And I find it deeply unethical to get the hopes up for somebody so desperate for a solution as the poster is. Their condition and outlook are bad enough, they don't need to be tricked on top of that. One of the huge red flags is the hush-hush "I'll send you a mail" Why this secrecy?

I urge you to either put evidence if your claims on the table or stop posting this kind of thing.

While I agree with you with my alarm bells, I found out too that our medical system is way more a money extraction machine than an health machine.

We are chronically deficient in infrared light, it’s killing people, it’s well researched yet there no pill for that: no money, no reach.

https://youtu.be/5YV_iKnzDRg

While I agree with you with my alarm bells, I found out too that our medical system is way more a money extraction machine than an health machine.

But that’s exactly what a lot of clinics doing stem cell therapy are doing themselves.

No evidence the therapy works but happy to accept you as a patient as long as you can fork over $100k.

True, if there is that amount of money involved they should have solid proof.
> I'm sorry to sound negative, but what you are saying about this "clinic in Mexico" sounds too good to be true. And everybody knows that when something sounds too good to be true ... More concretely, are you suggesting that US and European doctors are ignoring science about MS and just take the money? And the Mexican doctors at this clinic somehow magically have a cure which the rest of the world, at least the western world, ignores to ... enrich themselves?

I’m assuming you aren’t aware of the Dallas Buyers Club.

In that case society and government were widely opposed to helping and considered the plague a positive and much-deserved thing. There isn't the same level of stigma around MS.
Dallas Buyers' Club was a thing because of governmental/societal prejudice against HIV/AIDS victims which itself stemmed from Christian bigotry towards gay people
Hey, I appreciate both of you; I wouldn't characterize the parent as unethical, he seems like a real person with a story, on the surface I have doubts it could work for me, but I won't rule it out, if only I had the financial means to try. You're not entirely wrong about your assessment, when I first got diagnosed I was quick to believe anything that would promise help, and even followed through with some (pricy and ineffective) treatments like CCSVI procedures (which were even discussed here on HN back in the day).
> but I won't rule it out, if only I had the financial means to try.

Here is the problem: OP doesn't have the time. In such a situation, even if you have the money, you can afford to try one or two things long term, maybe three if you are lucky. If those turn out to be nonsense, that's it, you're dead or paralyzed or demented. You can't afford some esoteric nonsense in the bush because some stranger on the internet recommended it and a sketchy website pushed it.

It's really sad that dubious actors are making a buck off of desperate patients and that's just as immoral as a dysfunctional health system.

I am OP :). I really hope the future isn't so grim, I mean, to be honest it's me rejecting what is the most common outcome for people with MS, slow degradation. It pains me because just 3 years ago I was feeling so good, my brain was working great (due to a mix of circumstances, financial windfall, low stress, and pretty certainly a great mix of diet and exercise), I had so many product ideas and the energy to pursue them. Anyway, I digress... The thing is, as far as I know, no non-esoteric options provide what I'm seeking. As I've replied elsewhere, my initial intention was to collect (even very speculative) hints to future research and treatments that might do what current ones don't: restore, repair.
Oh I missed that, sorry. All the best to you!
Could you not do this? Medical vacations are a thing—and for precisely this reason.

> More concretely, are you suggesting that US and European doctors are ignoring science about MS and just take the money? And the Mexican doctors at this clinic somehow magically have a cure which the rest of the world, at least the western world, ignores to ... enrich themselves?

I guess you’re too young to have experienced having or to have known someone having an ailment that had a wide variety of ways it was understood and treated.

What a disgustingly rude post.

Maybe you don’t have the experience, but emphatically yes, doctors in the US at least WILL take your money without knowing how to alleviate your issues.

Do you not know how copays work? Do you think physicians say, “Oh, sorry this is beyond my expertise. Here’s a refund for your time.”

No. They’re getting paid.

I know it sounds crazy but there’s this phenomenon in life where people have different abilities and knowledge. It has nothing to do with what nation you live in either.

> One of the huge red flags is the hush-hush "I'll send you a mail" Why this secrecy?

Yuck. Like a preteen who can’t handle a private conversation.

Agree with you about the magical mexican clinic sounding a little too good to be true.

However, I can totally see doctors in the US and Europe ignoring or not knowing about the latest treatments for conditions. As I've aged and watched my parents age, We've dealt with several conditions where doctors have no idea and at some point they just think you're making it up. It feels like most doctors are just barely showing up to work mentally. If you don't fall within the dozen or so conditions/treatments they are familiar with they throw their hands up.

> If you don't fall within the dozen or so conditions/treatments they are familiar with they throw their hands up.

Absolutely true in my experience. They just throw various treatments at the wall and hope one sticks (though I find this more true for psychiatry than perhaps other fields of medicine).

I seriously think more people would benefit from a more holistic approach to medicine. I do not mean holistic in like woo-woo essential oils, but rather trying to treat all aliments as piece of a greater puzzle than each disease needing a different doctor per disease which never communicates with one another.

If you know anything about the history of science generally, you know that most genuinely new research results are ignored for decades before being embraced. Simple ego suffices, greed isn't the usual reason for this. I agree that more openness would be good, but as seen here the amount of flak that can result is daunting. MS research over the last century is a particularly gasp-inducing litany of tunnel vision and refusal to try (or acknowledge) more than one narrow research approach at a time.
Being in empirical research myself, I'm well aware of the obstacles that new insights in science sometimes have to face.

It's rare though that the breakthrough comes via an obscure secret clinic in Mexico though which is only spread via "I'll email you".

But it is not at all rare that such fly-by-night clinics grab someone's obscure result at third hand, rather randomly. They're a crap source of information, but not a disconfirmation.

Where there's an ick factor, or a safety factor, as with infecting oneself with worms to reduce allergies, the effect is perfectly real. The Mexican clinics are either are either ahead of their time or unsafe; ya just don't know which.

Yes, and it's closer to a 1:99 ratio than 50:50, making it pretty irresponsible to promote any if them here.
I have a medical condition (highly comorbid with MS) for which I've tried, probably 1,000 or more approaches over decades. About ten of them worked (better together.) Three or four were key. Would recommend.

Some of the things that worked best would have sounded too ridiculous for any Mexican clinic to try to sell to anybody. In my position, I think you would have been glad for any new (and safe-ish) ideas to try out, too. I just wasn't interested in paying the fly-by-night clinics, I don't advise that. Openness (not of the wallet but the mind) worked very well for me. Just really, really slowly.

So I'm more of the "don't sit still" and "bring out the ideas," sort. 1/99 odds sounds damn good next to what I went through. So I don't mind people posting ideas here, it's an adult forum. Ish.

I understand it might not be relevant for MS, but could you share what worked?
Did you try infrared light therapy? Did wonder for me, cost almost nothing, cured my eczema (quick visible result!)
This is a highly controversial topic, but I would be cautious about dismissing the OP out of hand simply because it's not in the US/EU.

The medical system in the US wholly rejects non-pharmacological remedies, primarily because Pharma has a stranglehold on the medical profession, but also because such remedies are not easily reproducible in clinical trials (which are incredibly expensive and have to be funded by someone, ergo, Pharma). That's not to say that homeopathic remedies all work, but the body is an extremely complex system with a great deal of variance from person to person. There are non-pharmacological remedies that have worked for certain people where pharmacological remedies failed, and the results can't always be scientifically explained. There's also a plenty of times that they don't work. And there's plenty of quackery. But to say that the US medical system has monopoly on medical knowledge would be foolish. (One example is that ketamine is slowly becoming accepted as a positive tool in treating certain mental health conditions, whereas for decades you had to go to some "clinic in Mexico" to find a doctor who could prescribe it to you.)

Would love to hear more about the clinic. I’ve heard they can do more treatments than outside the US. All of interest to me since I’ve got a myeloid condition.
Sometimes it's as simple as your chakras being out of alignment.

Sometimes it's more complicated though.

“toxic mold exposure”

Red flag!

This is among the constellation of fake, unlikely, or exaggerated conditions concocted by the alternative medicine industry so that they can sell more sham treatments.

I also got a chronic MS-like illness from toxic mold exposure. You are not alone. This is definitely a real problem. I have multiple lesions in brain MRI that I’m sure are the result of mold exposure because they were not there before the exposure. I don’t seek treatment because I know the mainstream medicine would probably kill me. Steroids are not the solution when the body is full of molds.
Look into the company Emcell at emcell.com. They're in Ukraine. Controversial, however they claim that fetal stem cell treatments (used from donated tissue, if that makes a difference to you) - if degeneration of healing systems of the body from MS aren't too far along - will stop MS and regress it, reverse damage/heal/cure it.

Here's their specific page on MS: https://www.emcell.com/treatments/multiple-skleroze/

There are free documentary video(s): https://stemcellsmovie.com/ or https://www.emcellexperience.com/emcell-videos/ - the 2nd video from the top.

Emcell explains that the stem cells they use, from 7-12 weeks, are safe to inject in everyone, as the cells haven't started to differentiate yet into the unique individual - mainly the immune system hasn't started to develop, and that they are the base 1000+ stem cell types that we all start with.

I'll email you too in case you miss this.

Edit to add: They also have a bunch of testimonial videos, including of doctors of patients they had and couldn't help: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7FLNCZlZ7ofwOPeclBr-xA - if that helps build your trust towards what they offer, if they seem genuine or not; it's hard to know with new technologies that aren't mainstream, skepticism is healthy - especially when desperate people can be an easy target to try to extract money from - but then if it is indeed safe as they claim (they've supposedly started doing research on fetal stem cells 35-40 years ago, and have been offering them clinically for 30-35 years now) - then it's a decision that probably lands on the question of risk-benefit analysis, ultimately, what do you have to lose?

I saw your posts about this searching through the archives; I'm not opposed to learning about anything, maybe you have some additional info or context, since you've posted about this several times? Thank you, appreciate your sharing, I'll take a look and see if there's anything to this, at least as an option at some point.
It's likely best to contact them to ask questions for whatever you're wondering about. Their previous website was far better IMHO, as they listed on their pages the actual clinical data/results from their own research - whereas now their website is more shallow marketing.
EDIT: deleting this comment, too much negative feedback.

For cognitive benefits, try mental math apps.

Is this an over-the-counter herb? Sounds like my wife and I need to do some research on this...

Edit: Yes, in fact, it is over the counter. Seems GNC, Walgreens, etc has this on the shelf. Thanks for recommending it!

(comment deleted)
Sure, as another poster wrote, be careful with MS it seems, there could be an immune stimulating effect. For stress in general it's very good though. Also it can be taken infrequently and you can still see a lot of benefits.
> be careful with MS it seems, there could be an immune stimulating effect.

If you know this, then why are you bringing the herb up as a response to somebody explicitly saying they have MS and are desperate for help?

It's like somebody screaming their house is on fire and you recommend trying a bucket of gasoline. And deep in the comments you'd mention "oh by the way, rhe gasoline could make the fire worse, and also, I make money off the gasoline-ordering-links that I sent you"

I didn't know it at first. Also, as pointed out, the risk is theoretical.
If that's the case then isn't it time to edit the comment and remove the harmful information or at least put a fat warning along side it, instead of keeping it up there together with your affiliate links that are still up and still earn you money?
If you read this whole thread, you can see that OP recommended to try the treatment before they knew about this MS specific risk.
> Have you tried Ashwagandha?

Please only take medical advice from medical professionals.

See excerpt below:

“Ashwagandha is an herbal remedy often categorized as an adaptogen, and it is sometimes recommended for MS-related fatigue. This compound does stimulate some cells in the immune system, so it poses a theoretical risk in MS.”

https://www.va.gov/WHOLEHEALTHLIBRARY/tools/multiple-scleros...

Thanks for finding that! Even a theoretical risk needs to be underlined. It's interesting that the same article notes that exercise also stimulates the immune system and that the risk really is theoretical at this point. But good to note it.
I have a family member with MS and it’s completely debilitated them.

I completely empathize and totally get why alternative treatments should be investigated.

It’s just a super tricky problem because everyone experiences MS differently and it’s non reversible nature makes it super scary.

I too wish modern medical could better help. So maybe Ashwagandha is it, just please have that conversations with your doctor.

Affiliate links? Seriously? Why are so many people trying to make money off this poor guy?

Not just does this bring money into your pockets, on top of that there is no evidence that withania somnifera even helps with any disease.

My primary cause with the site is informational. But if I could bring in some (likely minimal) income, I could spend that on ads to market the site. I don't think that's immoral.

That herb has seriously helped me with stress.

Here's one study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3573577/

I need to add that to the site.

While at it, please also add the references mentioned in this thread here that this herb poses a risk to those diagnosed with MS including a big warning. This is entirely missing currently, and since you are aware of it, you are purposely misleading your audience to make a buck. Yes, that's immoral in my book.

(Part of your purported honesty would obviously be to inform your readers that ordering through your links will give you cash kickbacks.)

Kickback? How is that an illicit payment?
Oh man, I don't know how I messed that up, it's mush_room_hn at proton.me not protonmail!
You might research chlorine dioxide.
Try infrared light therapy. (sun, infrared heater or specialized light)

We recently found out that all of our mitochondria in our cells need infrared light to get rid of oxidative stress. Our modern environment is devoid of infrared light: create all sort of inflammation and autoimmune diseases.

I had similar symptoms(peripheral neuropathy, headache), heal myself and my eczema that I had every winter in the last 23 years with a few minutes per day in front of a infrared space heater.e

It’s this doctor that gave me the idea to try it out. https://youtu.be/5YV_iKnzDRg

I also know someone who was dying of IBS in the hospital, at some point he say f*ck it if I am going to die it will be under the sun. He checked out of the hospital, whent to mexico (from Canada) and healed himself without medication.

I think a lot of our modern problems are caused by our environment (vit-d, infrared, and other things.)

I hope people try it out and that it help someone. Check out the videos of Medcram, many research papers have been done on this.

I'm curious about this. Does just being near a space heater work? Isn't all heat infrared light?
Yes - not as intense, but that's not nec bad. Oil filled heaters are an esp reliable, but sunlight has lots of red and infrared, too. Melanin can probably make good use of infrared light (and other intense light) to help sterilize whatever is passing through your interstitium. Given the Epstein-Barr connection that might (or might not) be helpful.
From what I saw it is the near infrared (close to visible light) that is more effective. I tried with an space heater with a reflector: https://www.costco.ca/presto-heatdish-plus-tilt-parabolic-he...

My reasoning was that it emit all infrared even visible red light.

It worked really well for me. Got my eczema under control after a few days at 1h/day.

But from what I saw in the research papers the inflammation is from cellular respiration (affect all the body) and the results of this inflammation can manifest in all kinds of ways.

You can also feel it, it’s soothing, much more than just a more heated room.

I think that we used to have that infrared before with fireplaces in colder climate, but now it’s almost all gone.

I love red light therapy (I have an combo red/infrared light that I sometimes use), but nothing rivals the sun. I have often thought that if I could move somewhere on the equator I would probably do much better, energy-wise. I don't think it would affect the long-term brain issues I mention much though.

I have started a very high dose Vitamin D protocol (Coimbra), 2 weeks ago. I need to find a doctor to supervise it as the dosages are truly immense but it's the only thing available to me ATM that gives me some hope.

I don’t have MS but suffer from autoimmune disease due to low platelets. People have mentioned stress management and I want to echo that with pointing out tools to help. Starting a daily mindfulness practice, even if for 5 minutes, will help greatly. Journaling - wether it’s a gratitude one or simply writing your feelings down - helps too.
[OP here]: It's too late to edit the message but if mods could pick it up (or anyone reading this), my email is actually mush_room_hn@proton.me not @protonmail!
OP, don’t worry, ProtonMail routes both email IDs to your inbox by default. You’re good.
oh, great, someone said their email bounced so I thought something had changed with Protonmail
I had my email bounce to protonmail.com but not proton.me and an not the original person.

I don't think it's an exact redirect if it works at all... I assume it's a masked email address from the name, maybe those are treated differently?

This thread is terrifying.

No, covid boosters don’t cause MS.

No, there isn’t a magical Mexican clinic that fixes everything.

No, light isn’t going to cure you.

Please stop giving out dangerous health info and stick to which JS framework is better HN

This 1000x. You won't believe how much I want to upvote you.

I feel so sorry for OP to have asked. It will be so hard for them to find the answers that are actually helpful and ignore every that's nonsense or actively harmful. They are desperate and likely don't have the energy to fight all this.

Hey, I appreciate your intent, I feel I can sort through this fine after so many years with this. It's funny because my initial intent was collecting some speculation about _future_ medical advances (even just "AI will solve this in 10 years, trust me, I'm working on it!"), just so, to be very blunt, I can convince myself that it's worth living if in the future I can be made whole again.

It's true that newly diagnosed people might be more vulnerable to such things, I mean, I was and have pursued speculative things out of despair, so it's a fair warning to them.

Yes please keep up the hope. As I mentioned in a deep thread below, the causal link between EBV and MS only got established in 2022 so there is hope that in 10 years time you will live through major medical advances. (I would not be able to disclose if I worked on it, but I am nearly certain that many other people work on it.)
You have to live I note present. We all die. MS just makes you fear for the future. Best advice I have is use a PMT (if your doctor agrees) and slow the progression so advances in medicine can cats up. Exercise, good diet, controlled blood pressure and cholesterol are important.

Few die form MS, but it makes you weaker to other conditions, so maintaining good health is key.

Be present and understand that there are many in far worse situations than yourself. For my condition there is one DMT (as I have PPMS) called Ocrevus, and there are trials for other drugs. Time will tell what works well, but hope springs eternal.

Once last point: it is diagnosed by Venn diagram: the inter station of MRI lesions, mobility issues, spinal fluid bands. It is a circumstantial conclusion: we are in the early days of understanding this condition. Just remember that life is terminal and enjoy every day to its fullest.

Welcome to the world of auto-immune diseases - or heck, the world of chronic incurable disease.

Everyone wants something that'll help, and it feels like controlling something that might make you feel better is better than doing nothing.

With MS in particular (knowledge because of my own MS): A few folks haven't been entirely truthful about their treatment story. Combined with the fact that MS affects folks very differently (I got diagnosed around 40 and it is generally mild so far and I'm lazy) and the most common form has "relapses" that are usually followed by a varying amount of recovery and remission, it makes a lot of sham cures look very promising.

The only thing that has been clinically proven to slow down disease progression - and therefore, keeping some quality of life - are modern medicines, which are unfortunately expensive.

I mean, of course you are going to be better off if you eat a generally healthy diet and move about when you can (difficult for some with MS), you are going to be better off. It isn't a cure, and if the supplements were, they'd be medicine and insurances/governments would pay for those instead of the pharmacy meds.

As of two years ago modern medicines reduced exacerbations but did nothing to slow the progress disease, as you claim. If there are new and opposite findings, I haven't seen them.

In chronic inflammatory diseases generally, treating yourself well often or usually has the paradoxical effect that your body now has more resources to attack you with, more viciously; whether re autoinflammation or autoimmune reactions. It cannot be assumed that being good to yourself will make you less miserable - although you will probably live longer.

Re other things that help, smoking has now been shown to help, but earlier studies before people who smoked were pushed outside to do that showed the reverse.

It's true that everyone with MS has a different straw to cling to, but those who swear by modern medicines without deep-diving into the empirical research are amongst this group, not contra. The history of dollar driven MS research and treatment is decades long and a rolling tragedy, economically and otherwise.

A recent study has shown beans help. (Perhaps because soluble fiber is necessary for choline absorption?) But whether that study will hold up I know not.

https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/diet-rich-in-beans-legumes...

As of two years ago modern medicines reduced exacerbations but did nothing to slow the progress disease, as you claim. If there are new and opposite findings, I haven't seen them.

Fewer exacerbations means fewer lesions: While your disease might progress, it doesn't do it at the same rate as it did before medications - or heck, even when comparing to the first medications. For most folks, this is exactly the same as no disease progress. It definitely means that our outlook is better.

In chronic inflammatory diseases generally, treating yourself well often or usually has the paradoxical effect that your body now has more resources to attack you with, more viciously; whether re autoinflammation or autoimmune reactions. It cannot be assumed that being good to yourself will make you less miserable - although you will probably live longer.

From what I can tell, being active before you have damage generally means it it a little easier to get some function back. Right now, the general advice is to stay as generally healthy as you can, within reason.

Re other things that help, smoking has now been shown to help, but earlier studies before people who smoked were pushed outside to do that showed the reverse.

You are going to have to back this up: Everything I've read states that smoking - the act of inhaling smoke that has been lit - is detrimental and actually a risk factor. MJ helps some folks feel a bit better, but they recommend things like edibles or vaping over smoking a lit joint/cig.

but those who swear by modern medicines without deep-diving into the empirical research are amongst this group I can swear by modern medicines because people smarter than I am have done the research, something I cannot say about a book written by someone not educated in medicine, nor about supplements that aren't studied.

he history of dollar driven MS research and treatment is decades long and a rolling tragedy, economically and otherwise.

And this can easily be seen with alternative medicines (diet, supplements, etc) and isn't special to any other major or common disease.

A recent study has shown beans help. (Perhaps because soluble fiber is necessary for choline absorption?) But whether that study will hold up I know not. And if it pans out, health insurance companies and governments that run single-payer health plans would back up paying for nutritional education and possibly give folks beans, which are cheap. Taxpayers would demand things like this.

A lot of gainsaying here.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ is where to go see that modern drugs genuinely don't alter progression. I know this is surprising. Your experience is better your outlook, alas, is not. The amount of nerve damage over time visible on MRI is not lessened. Note that by far the majority of function loss from exacerbations is usually from pressure due to local inflamation sites that blow up; they press adjacent areas hard enough to cause them to go offline, but not enough to kill cells.

Re being active etc - I think we agree here, but I can try to be clearer, and say you'll be more miserable because your underlying health is better. I don't advise people to harm themselves to limit immune reactions; but that is a risk if you, say, "feel better when you overexercise" and don't realize that you are causing your innate immune system (or adaptive in the case of autoimmune diseases) to downregulate because you are creating obstacles for your body, or actively harming it.

Re smoking the most recent studies are trending your way.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Ms+smoking

The study I read seems to have been an error burst, as it were. I'll edit out mentions of it elsewhere.

There are many other sad medical research stories, as you say, but that of MS is unrelenting and so same same it really stands out as a money-sink and narrow-minded insanity.

My many decades tell me that beans won't have big multinational companies shelling out influence dollars in Congress and Parliment on the side of beans, but I hope your optimism wins that point.

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My dad had MS. He passed away a while back. It's a horrible disease, and I'm in awe of people who live the best lives they can while dealing with it.

Because it is so horrible, and plays out over such a long time, there is an entire industry that preys on people with MS with false hopes, and miracle treatments (electric shock, photonics, bee stings, all kinds of potions and lotions). There's also a lot of research going on trying to get to the cause, find a cure, or slow the diseases progress. It's really hard to know the difference between genuine research, and snake oil.

My Dad was a doctor. An MD, with a BS in chemistry and an a second BS in Biology. He was a scientist first, and a family doctor second. Every time someone came up with a potential cure, he'd drill into it. Most of the time, he'd read all the papers and come back with "this one is a dead end." Occasionally, he'd find something exciting. One in particular was "bee sting therapy". It was about what you think: get stung regularly by bees, and something in the toxin slows/stops the process. Dad fell for it, and after a couple of treatments, he came to the conclusion, "it just hurts." And he stopped the therapy. He never gave up on science, and kept trying to something that worked (he was highly involved with both the MS Society and the MS Foundation).

MS is one of those diseases that really shows the limits of human progress. We know the "what", we have no idea on "how" and "why" (best guess as of now is Epstein-Barr virus, but that has been the best guess off and on for decades). This is despite billions and billions of dollars in research.

Don't give up hope, and don't lose touch with reality.

Isn't there a large genetic component to the condition too? I thought it was predominately found in people of Northwestern European decent. I guess, it would be a perfect cocktail with EB virus + the right genes?
The "perfect cocktail" theory is the current thinking around EBV but, it was current thinking 20 years ago and fell out of favor. This is why dealing with MS has been so hard. We don't know what actually causes the condition.
Does Northwestern European descendants still have higher rates of MS? They have higher rates of my autoimmune disease fwiw.
MS is more common the further from the equator you are. That applies to Northwestern Europeans. This does not apply to descendants who move closer to the equator. In short, the link between ethnicity and MS is not well understood at all. The only genetic factor that seems to be well understood is that MS is more than 2x more common in women than men.
I have MS, PPMS (10-15%) no relapses and mildly progressing. Not a bad situation now, but no one knows the rate of progression.

My doctors tell me no genetic component and the Northwester EU is likely from lack of vitamin D. The closer you are to the poles the more likely you are to get it.

Fuck sake. Why are you focusing on these supposed terrifying nut jobs supposedly somewhere down there in the thread? That's the Internet. Focus on the person with MS asking for advice.
It’s not wrong that vaccine can cause autoimmune diseases. It’s just extremely rare and the benefits outweigh the cost almost any time.
Made mine worse, but it definitely didn't cause it. Then again, Covid would have probably made it worse, perhaps worse than the vaccine, too. Thankfully do not have MS, so I cannot comment on that part.
That covid boosters could trigger an exacerbation is utterly unsuprising. You're right to think that doesn't nec show that disease progression is worse.

However I do wish you wouldn't claim knowledge that new approaches don't work. Probably they don't - but that's why we do the experiments, you know.

Whatever comments those were, they obviously aren't at all representative of this thread.

This kind of supercilious putdown often gets upvoted because everybody likes to feel superior, but then it sits at the top of the page (where I saw it), adding off-topic meta noise. Please don't do that.

Yes, there's a long tail of comments on the public internet, but to be on topic on HN, focus instead on things that are interesting.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Giving out dangerous medical advice was on topic for the thread?

Yes my comment was intentionally an attempt to derail a dangerous thread, it worked for a bit and I'm glad it did.

Maybe you should address the concern by removing dangerous medical info?
As a person with a good friend (computer scientist) who has MS, I wish you the best!

I take it you're in contact with physicians that are tracking your condition and its development, and you're not just relying on your judgement about your own mental state? If not, please get in contact with specialists ASAP, do not rely just on HN for medical advice.

Apart from the above, the best I could do is tell you to try to not be too hard on yourself. I know this sounds strange, but try to acknowledge the situation and that those are the symptoms. Work on accepting this as normal, so that it does not stress you out and lead to acceleration of the condition. If necessary find a person to talk to to help you deal with this, and to help you find what life changes to make so that it gets easier for you.

Just hold on. The science is catching up, and eventually it will! Stay strong, and do not give up!

That's good advice, I'm not seeking medical advice, as anyone with a long history with such a disease I'm battle hardened in this area, again, it's been a long time.

To be honest initially what I was after was some hints on even highly speculative future medical advances. I don't personally know of anything available right now that could, for instance, restore brain volume, heal myelination scars, etc. At this point even "don't worry, I work in AI and within 10 years it will find a cure" would offer a bit of hope I'd take.

Been diagnosed for about 10 years with RRMS.

One thing that has really helped me is the combination of remote + pair programming. Having an extra mind to work together is amazing. Doing it remote removes the stress of commute, noise/stress from the office, and allows for relaxing breaks where I can even lay down if I want.

Using note taking frequently, small commits, TDD and drawing diagrams continuously while pairing also helps keep my mind in context and picking up the thread after breaks. Whimsical has been a fabulous tool for this.

I've been of Aubagio before, and now I'm on Tysabri. The difference is staggering. Aubagio gave me tons of side-effects like hairloss, indigestion, increased fatigue and general feeling of being sick. And it still was not able to prevent flare-ups and lesions.

With Tysabri I can't identify a single side-effect. In the three years I've been on it I've not had a single flare-up or lesion identified after MRs.

Something I also believe helps me a lot is simply living in a country with healthcare and strong welfare. Knowing that when it eventually comes to not being able to work anymore, I have public disability pension that will cover 63.5% of my current salary until I reach retirement age (where normal retirement takes over). Having this knowledge removes a lot of stress and despair, which I genuinely believe helps keeping the disease under control.

I miss Tysabri. I was one of the lucky ones who had the 'side effect' of feeling physically great for a week afterwards.

But of course Medicaid won't pay for IV infusion. So nope!

Biogen offers non-income dependent financial aide that covers $20k a year towards the drug, and $2-3k a year towards the cost of infusions.
Another upvote for Tysabri. Makes a huge difference.

Regarding Whimsical - never heard of it. So for myself and others: https://whimsical.com/flowcharts

> "Whimsical combines whiteboards and docs in an all-in-one collaboration hub."

I'm on Tysabri as well. There have been no documented significant side effects in the US, which is good. Many people have many years between relapses, if they relapse at all.

However, there is additional risk in taking it if you are JC Virus positive.