Ask HN: How to deal with burn out whilst in probationary period?
I think I’m suffering with burn out and just want to crawl under the covers and come out again in spring, unfortunately I am only half way through my probation period and don’t have an vacation days.
I left a long term job about 7 months ago, join another company and very quickly realised I didn’t like the atmosphere so left there for what should have been my dream job, however I’m 4 months in, still in probationary period and think I’m burning out (home, kids, marriage, etc)
I’m not sure if to tell my boss, tell the company or how to deal with it, because I can’t afford to loose this job with a family to support.
95 comments
[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 162 ms ] threadYou may struggle for time to exercise from the sound of it, but even a little bit helps.
It's important to be consistent because it takes some time to start noticing the benefits.
Also, create a bed routine and stick to it. For example, taking a hot shower, brushing teeth and then going to bed right after help to slow down a racing mind.
Reading a book before bed as well, I'm always impressed how much I can read and how slow the time goes by and I'm already sleepy.
"Reading a book before bed as well" - doesn't help everyone, I get too excited with story and have trouble with stopping reading when the time comes.
If they leave this job for a new one they'll still be burned out, just like the last two times in the past year they left their job for a new one.
My advice is the same as other commenters, OP should seek professional help with therapy. There are other things that can help like meditation, but in my experience there's no quick fix.
Sometimes it's not even about job. I have ALL the classical symptoms of burnout, but I still love both my jobs (full time and part time after hours) and would like to continue them, but I just can't gather enough focus to be as productive for the whole day. Fortunately, some light meds, workout and fresh air is starting to help.
If so, you should probably keep at it. Baby steps and try to find ways to relax in the evenings and weekends.
Looking at this from another angle, you cannot afford to keep this job because you have a family to support. A burnt-out parent is not helpful to their family. You need your energy to truly support them, and if this job is burning you out, then it is not working.
So yes - tell your boss. Tell your company. Either they will work with you and fix the problem, or they won't and you need to find something else. Either way, you are acting on a problem instead of stagnating in burnout. The short-term pain of finding new work is better than the long-term pain of being a burnt-out parent.
And no, don't tell your boss. If they haven't noticed your burnout by now, it'll only make them be super critical of everything you do. Yes, bosses can be friends but it's a new job, I doubt you have bonded that strongly already (or you wouldn't be asking this question here in the first place).
Your boss can be your friend, and prioritize their job over your friendship.
It's easy to get into a social position where we place too much trust into friendship driving the decisions people make.
Like you said, replacing that trust with distrust can block you, not only from the negative opportunities we want to avoid (like your boss firing you for burnout), but also the positive opportunities (like your boss helping you overcome the burnout).
It would be really convenient if either one of these choices (trust vs. distrust) was a clear winner, but it looks like neither of them is intrinsically better.
The silver lining is that your relationship with your boss isn't the only or most important relationship your can have. Even if you don't have the opportunity to get help from your boss to deal with your burnout, you can still seek help from others. Some people, like trained therapists, are well equipped and motivated to help.
So in this case, a user is suggesting taking drugs to continue to slough through work.
Why don't you focus on the suggestion to do therapy instead? Not as outraging, I suppose.
You and op are reacting as if someone suggested the poster should be drugged out of their mind, maybe with saliva dripping from their face, completely numb to reality vs. just quitting the job.
Both a false dichotomy and a lot of assumptions.
This is just not universally true! Many managers out there are compassionate and understanding. Makes me sad to imagine where some of y'all work that you feel that way.
Let's be honest here. You know the right thing to do is to tell your boss / company.
As someone who has sat on the employer side of the table, I can tell you that there's nothing that pisses off an employer more than an employee that tries to hide things, and then, by the time it becomes known, its too late. Its always better to be proactive and resolve a problem before it becomes a PROBLEM.
Speaking frankly for a moment, do you honestly think your employer will be happy if you say nothing during your probation period and then you start claiming sick leave and vacation days on Day One ?
Honestly, the best thing is to be grown-up about it and talk to your employer. Your employer will appreciate it. You will feel less stressed out about it. Win-Win.
The op wants to make sure he or she maximizes probability of succeeding at this company and frankly you don’t do that by announcing to your boss you are suffering burnout a few months into the job unless you have strong internal network and leverage.
Any employer that has an 8 month long probationary period is probably not going to be the type to suddenly be super-supportive if you say you're burned out halfway through it.
I'm assuming that if you could afford being out of work for 6 months to recover from burnout, you'd have mentioned or executed that, so that best course of action is presumably off the table.
Here is a time to be consciously selfish on behalf of yourself and your family and, to me, that means hiding the problem as best you can from your employer. (Feel free to get whatever support you can from other sources, just not the job.)
Whether you like it or not, communication, and the lack thereof, is dependent on both parties.
If someone is hiding something from you, then they are failing to communicate; but that isn't the whole picture. What role do you play in this lack of communication? Are you giving them opportunities to communicate with you? Are they afraid of how you might react? Could you do anything to make them more comfortable?
Considering you have had this happen more than once, it would be in your best interest to change something about the way you communicate in this context. You can be proactive by telling all your employees how you would react to this hypothetical situation. If your reaction is going to be positive, then they won't have any reason to hide from you, but only if they know that.
And if your reaction is going to be negative, then you are both headed to a place neither of you wants to go. Can you steer the ship in a more positive direction? Can you at least promise to try?
You're expecting a lot of initiative from someone who is already burnt out and afraid of getting fired. Whether or not you created this dynamic doesn't matter: you are in the best position to resolve the problem. After all, that's literally your job.
I've only got two words for you: Fuck You.
You don't know me, so how dare you make such insinuations.
TL;DR: I come from the "Treat others how you wish to be treated" school.
This means I am very much conscious that my role is responsible for feeding families and paying mortgages.
I am open and honest about anything that may affect my employees. Good news or bad. It gets propagated without smoke and mirrors.
I pay for all employee's lunches. I am very flexible on things like holiday time.
In return I expect employees to make ample use of my Open Door.
On the RARE occasions that an employee hides things from me (whether personally or related to their work for a client), I find it very upsetting and I take it personally. I go above and beyond for my employees, its not too much to expect the same in reverse.
And YES, I realise not all employers are as generous as me. But it doesn't detract from the fact that holding back information from your employer is not going to help your cause. Harsher employers will no doubt feel less inclined to help you if you held back from them.
> TL;DR: I come from the "Treat others how you wish to be treated" school.
You're welcome to give those statements some reflection. I find hindsight to be really valuable, especially after speaking from a place of emotion.
> I find it very upsetting and I take it personally.
Clearly. And that's your business. You are free to ignore my perspective and advice. Your feelings are real, and I'm not trying to ignore them.
I didn't come here to offend, but I did intend to be direct and assertive with my communication. This social pattern is not new to me, and it isn't specific to you.
Indeed, I don't know you. I can only draw from the limited interaction I have had so far. And so far, that interaction has followed the very same social pattern I came here to deconstruct.
That's the crux of what I'm trying to express here: if I'm an employee, and I don't know my boss is going to react positivity to bad news, I'm very motivated to keep my mouth shut. That sucks for both of us, and me keeping secrets would definitely be wrong; but the morality of the situation isn't going to protect my employment.
You can say all you want that you are generous and forgiving, and that you make plenty of room for open communication; but so far, I find your words hard to believe. In our interaction so far, you have been hostile, emotional, and outright refused to hear my perspective. You had an opportunity to be generous, and you did not take it. I get it: you're upset, and that makes it pretty difficult for anyone in your position. In this specific situation, there isn't a lot of trust being built.
I am not here to tear you down. I am here to criticize you. I hope that you can take a step back and hear my criticism constructively, but that decision is ultimately yours.
I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?
Are you being honest? This advice benefits only the company and it's terrible for the employee.
I'm sorry that i don't have a solution for you. But i just wanted to say that you are not alone. Maybe try exercise or some other distraction...again to help cope woith things. Who knows, maybe as you do these other coping activities, maybe you wil stumble on what your solution could be? Good luck, feel better, and hang in there! If you wish to chat, feel free to reach out; my HN profile has my contact info.
I left a comfortable job for a challenge, joined another company and within 4 months everything changed and I decided to move again to my now dream job in tech. Every single one there has been something missing.
I’ve also thought about doing something totally different but the problem is with a family there is a requirement for a certain level of “life/living” if it was just me changing to be a taxi driver or something else would be possible as it’s easier to change your living situation if it’s just you.
OMG, its like you have been reading my mind, and living my same life! :-) Let's hope we all get through this!
I'm assuming the boss/company cannot afford to keep you on indefinitely if you're not productive. As a manager, how I react to you bringing some version of this to me honestly depends a lot on how promising I thought you were and how well you seem to be doing so far.
If you're doing really well and I had no idea you were feeling burnt out until you told me, I want to find ways to accommodate within whatever my constraints are and help you get on your feet. Likewise if your work quality and productivity varies a lot with some excellent and some disappointing, though it's critical that some be excellent, or at least excellent-given-your-level-and-how-long-you've-been-here.
If you haven't given me much reason to believe you're going to be a great asset to the team eventually, I'm sympathetic but it's going to seem like a bad business decision to pay you while you drag down the perceived 'bar' of productivity.
Check this out:
https://youtu.be/4oiRLeaxaoI
#notlegaladvice
I would advice not discussing this with the company until your probationary period is over. As they can let you go for any reason. Once you are through you have a firm ground to take time off and recover.
I'm not sure if you're in EU or not. But at least in Germany if you are let go during probation whilst on sick leave, your health insurer will pay out 70% of your salary until you are better. After that the unemployment office will take over. Id advice talking to a local employment lawyer to know your rights but know there is usually a safety net for these scenarios. Perhaps it makes you feel more secure in calling in sick even if you are still in the probation period.
If you happen to be in Germany and need someone to talk to to figure things out regarding your rights feel free to DM me on Twitter.
There's always going to be times in your career that you are more or less productive. Some times everything is clicking and you feel like you're firing on all cylinders. Other times things suck and you just have to show up and do your best. I've been through that pattern so many times in my career, I can't even count.
For work where your value is your thoughts and ideas, this is less possible. The job I left was in communications. I couldn't come up with good, pithy marketing or slogans when I had no free mental energy, and when it reached the point that I realized the org and I had major ideological differences, it was even more difficult because trying to force my brain to help expand the reach of an organization I thought was bad just wouldn't work. Some positions require a certain amount of buy-in to do.
> he grit his teeth and he worked through it
No, it's the contrary! Having the ability to "grit your teeth" comes from a place of emotional health.
When people are depressed or burnout the "muscle" to "grit your teeth" is not available.
Yeah, and being in the middle of a burnout means your best is doing pretty much nothing (depends a bit on the job). Plus, by trying, you're potentially prolonging that period of uselessness
Your prime directive is to take care of YOU, since YOU are needed to be able to take care of the rest.
Learn about co-dependency.
Identify things that are really important to you (almost at a ruthless level), and shortcut/ignore the rest. This means prioritizing also time to relax (walk, read a book, meditate or whatever you do to relax) even if there are other things/chores that are in queue. Accept that some things will be delayed or not be done in the next few months until you get back to your footing. Recognize that during burnout, your efficiency is 50%, so reduce your load accordingly.
A comment I read a while ago in HN is "don't be the person that cares the most about things". While I don't think it applies to all issues, I apply it to some things. Try to apply the 80/20 (20% effort for 80% of work done) Personally, during burnout, I've gone almost in survival mode. I completely cut alcohol (even beer), soft drinks, etc, try to sleep well, and try to exercise (or walk) just because it improves my energy levels. If small kids that require lots of attention, consider babysitter, kindergarden or take them to the park (if there's one close by) during the time you are in charge. Personally I find that kids require less effort/energy outdoors. Youtube videos are also useful in a pinch (see "super simple songs" or "cocomelon" which have 1hr long videos)... try not to let them see more than 1-2hrs per day.
Regarding wife, when you're burned out, things look more pessimistic and you're less likely to let something slide. Maybe she's also overwhelmed and/or burned out and/or in "ruthless/survivor" mode. See if there are things that she's doing that can be delegated through money (order food instead of cooking, get someone to help clean/laundry, etc). If she gets some time back, she might be more able/willing to help with the load. Recognize that priorities are not the same, I personally don't care much about cleaning but my wife does. Try to always communicate...
Remember that if your burnout gets worse, it will be worse not only for you but also for your family ... All said, I'm just someone on the internet that doesn't know much about your situation, so take everything with a grain of salt.
I know with kids/marriage/etc this can be hard to do but I (someone in a similar situation) find that an hour of exercise every day makes all the difference in the world.
So I'm just trying to trudge along and progress when and where I can, and try my best to get my work done. I'm fortunately working from home, so no commute to add to the burnout. I've also not had a decent vacation in years. I did take two weeks off between my last job and this one, but that was mainly to catch up around the house. I tried to negotiate vacation time at this position, but they refused, which means I'm slowly accruing PTO. I'm hoping by April I'll have enough to take two weeks off and go somewhere nice.
I'm not sure I have advice that others haven't given. But it can get better. Rely on your wife or family if you can to help with the kids and house, and push them for help if need be. Find a therapist if you think that could help. Make sure to keep work and life separate as much as you can. Meaning be sure to unplug from work when you're home, and to have as few distractions from home while working. If you do find yourself getting distracted at work, see if you can walk away for a bit (even literally go for a short walk). Also, rely on your coworkers to help you. Ask, even nag, them for assistance if you get stuck. Try to make friends at work, and maybe push for fun, team-building events if that doesn't currently happen. I think showing you're trying will be big if your boss thinks productivity isn't where it should be.
Good luck!
* High intensity intervals. Do 2 minutes of light intensity cardio as warm up. Then alternate 20 seconds at top effort with 10 seconds of rest. 10 cycles of this will only take you 5 minutes. You should be out of breath by the end. * Faster version of yoga woodchopper pose[2]. Stand with feet apart and knees slightly bent. Clasp hands and raise above head. Bend knees and bring your hands down while you exhale with a loud "Ha!" Do it slow a few times for warm up, then do it fast and imagine your hands crushing a stressor at the bottom. Yell if it won't disturb the neighbors. * Tense your whole body for 20 seconds, then slowly exhale and release the tension. While tensing, imagine either beating up or successfully running away from something that is stressing you out.
[1] https://www.feministsurvivalproject.com/episodes/episode-02-... [2] https://youtube.com/watch?v=u1HjZ49xAPc
Your guilt is false. Your kids will be fine. Your wife will be fine.
Communicate with your wife that this is what you are going to do. And continually how it is going.
Over time, hopefully you will be able to find other ways to manage stress, and take a well-deserved vacation.
Do you think you could manage the job if there were no expectations on you outside the job? Could your partner get on board with you needing some time with very few home responsibilities (as it's best for the family in the long run)?
Can you find access to nature? For me, a couple of unstructured hours getting bored in a truly natural setting feels almost like a vacation.
Karezza could help create a generous, non-transactional vibe at home and help you maintain creative energy.
Best wishes as you navigate this.
I left a job of 3 years after feeling a little bored/frustrated, thought a new job would fix things but it only made things worse. I last 2 months before leaving for another job, 3 months into that and I felt equally burned out. No amount of gritting my teeth has made it completely easy and all these jobs were paying 400k+ in total comp, so the money wasn't making it tolerable either.
Given I have a sick family member and a mortgage to pay, I can't just quit or loose this job. So I remind myself that others have it much worse and that I really need this job.
My strategy so far: 1. Set an end date, I know that I'm going to switch jobs and roll the dice again at a pre-determined time. This helps me be more sane by having a finite timeline on leaving this environment. 2. Coast as much as possible, do just enough to stay employed and don't work too hard or sacrifice your mental energy/health for things like technical debates or politics. Just do what people ask to stay afloat, don't make enemies and try to be someone non-controversial that everyone likes (or at least doesn't hate) to talk to. 3. Focus any and all free time on things that make you happy. Do hobbies that don't involve screens, make physical things, exercise, see your friends, have quality time with your wife and kids, work on developing new skills that make you feel fulfilled.
Not sure if this is relevant to you, but the most important thing for me has been recognizing that (for me personally) work is not a place to get fulfillment or meaning out of life. Can it do that sometimes? Sure it can, it has for small periods of time for me. But if you rely on it being your primary source of identity and meaning, then you are inevitably going to be burnt out and disappointed eventually. Find meaning in the rest of life and have more balance.
I think with home office and being on screens only this doesn’t help with mental health either.
Don't wait, start somewhere. The therapist can help you distill what changes you can make in your life to get to a better place.
That is pretty vague. Are you home less? More stressed and arguing? Sounds like you need to talk to your spouse and go over what is going on - they should be accepting of the situation and maybe cut you some slack? Get a baby sitter and spend time with them. I know I take responsibilities very seriously and get stressed when my new boss really doesn't expect too much from the new guy. Make sure you get some rest and me time. If you're spending lots of time stressed but procrastinating you should ask more questions or work more closely with a buddy. I have the exact same problem though so when you figure out the answer tell me. :)