FWIW, I'd think people buying and using system utilities are more often than not users that run old machines for business reasons. More the "XP machine in the basement to control the boiler" situation rather than "I don't want the free update to Windows 10" situation.
Another thing to keep in mind is that Windows 8.1 is still supported by Microsoft for another three months. Windows 8.1 is not outdated yet, not even according to Microsoft. Chrome's support will end a month after Microsoft's support ends, I'd think because very few people actually use 8.1 compared to the rest of the world.
In case your customers ask, Windows 7/8.1 users may be able to use Firefox (ESR, if necessary) if they want a maintained browser. The current Firefox ESR should be supported until at least August of next year and if Mozilla includes 7/8.1 support in version 115, then support should last until at least the end of next year.
Support is a lot more of a nebulous concept than it used to be. I recall AMD stopped releasing new drivers for Windows 8 at least a couple years ago, even though it is still supported by Microsoft. At the same time they were still releasing Windows 7 drivers even though MS stopped support in 2020.
Electron (accidentally) broke Windows 7 support last month, and as a result a number of applications broke for Windows 7 if they used that Electron version (e.g. VSCode). Lots of people complained. It was a fairly minor thing and was quickly fixed by the Electron people.
My favourite comment in one of the threads about it:
"Related "MS ended support for Win7" - sorry, how it corresponds to development?! Does your operating system gone away from SSD? Or Windows become rusty? Not. SYSTEM WORKS AS BEFORE, so please don't write stupid reasons "MS doesn't support" - nobody care of it, system works as usual and nothing prevents you from using Win7 (as I do now)."
I kind of like the no-nonsense honesty of it; made me smile :-) I don't think it's necessarily smart to keep running on Windows 7 given the support status, but they're not entirely wrong either: Windows 7 is a fine system. It works. Why "upgrade"?
> "Related "MS ended support for Win7" - sorry, how it corresponds to development?! Does your operating system gone away from SSD? Or Windows become rusty? Not. SYSTEM WORKS AS BEFORE, so please don't write stupid reasons "MS doesn't support" - nobody care of it, system works as usual and nothing prevents you from using Win7 (as I do now)."
This is just nonsense. If the user feels so strongly, why don't they maintain the relevant software themselves and find out just how easy (not) it is to maintain support for an EOL operating system? Or why don't they just stick to outdated versions of all their software, like they chose to do with their operating system? Harassing open source developers who work for free is not a sane response.
No one was being harassed. They opened an issue because they were facing a problem, which is what issues are for. The first response was "they need to not offer the update on Win 7. We don't need our environments seamlessly fucked." from some random drive-by commenter. They posted that in reply after it actually got fixed by one of the vscodium maintainers.
You just need to be really really careful about downloading anything (through user action or by the system) to it because there will be a long list of exploits to choose from for anyone wanting a free bitcoin farm. Microsoft might even be paying the 'security researchers' to come up with more.
Forking over a couple hundred to uncle Bill for protection every five years or so is not entirely pointless.
You just need to be really really careful about downloading anything
...as you always should be anyway.
Forking over a couple hundred to uncle Bill for protection every five years or so is not entirely pointless.
...and being forced into their increasingly user-hostile manipulations? If anything, that saying about "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns" comes to mind.
You're right of course, but I do think the quote accurately represents the feelings a lot of people had, and continue to have, even when they know they should upgrade (and most likely, already have upgraded) due to lack of support.
The introduction of the hybrid interface in Windows 8 was the beginning of the end. The new 'Setup' versus the old Control Panel and how there's some crossover, but not complete. God, they messed things up.
Yeah, I think 7 was the last good version. 8.1 was "sorry for 8.0" but the damage was done and the path forward (wonkily sideways and backwards) was set.
> The introduction of the hybrid interface in Windows 8 was the beginning of the end
What's this end your are taking about? People day that about every new version of Windows at least since the 95 release and it doesn't seem to be happening.
I took this comment to mean that "for this person" it was the beginning of the end. I feel the same way. Windows 8 and onward got really weird really fast for a lot of people who used Windows for decades. I'm not saying the old style is better for everyone, just me.
I actually meant it globally, but if I was a better person I would have meant it "for me, personally" ;)
> I'm not saying the old style is better for everyone, just me
I'm on the same page. But also, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with getting used to the new interface, except it doesn't show all the things the old interface had, some of which I use(d) frequently enough to be annoyed about their absence, meaning that I'd have to go back to the old interface, in turn meaning that I can't yet forget the old to make brain-space for the new. I find this infuriating, possibly because it highlights my brain's personal tech-debt; some kind of "curse of knowing".
I agree with your "curse of knowing" sentiment. Learning new things is much more fun when new things are demonstrably better. I don't think that many of the changes to Windows since version 8 are demonstrably better. Thank you for taking my comment in the way I intended.
This is one reason I really like Linux and the BSDs. There is a total separation of UI from OS, and due to the command line heritage of UNIX, strong functionality is available without a desktop environment at all. This is also another reason the web has taken over from the desktop.
Windows 8 was an utter failure of a UI design for anything but tablets. I'd go back further.
Windows 7 was the last user friendly OS Microsoft has released, in my opinion. Windows 10 was a desperate attempt to take the 8 framework and stuff it into the desktop, but I don't think it's all as well-integrated as Windows 7 was.
It's a shame. The Windows 10/11 kernel is a marvel of technology. I just wish I could run the Windows 7 UI on top of it (and disable all the obnoxious tracking).
7 was great. 8 was okay. 10 is great but I don't like the encroachment of ads. Why do I have an advertising ID now? Why do I have ads in my start menu and lock screen? 11 is even worse by the looks of it.
The decline definitely began at 8 and has accelerated recently.
I have Win 10 pro and noticed a magnifying glass icon in the start menu with something about soccer that presumably would open Edge. Ie. An ad. There was a setting i never saw before "occasionally show suggestions in start" that I had to disable.
Zoinks!
There are also lock screen ads by default called "windows spotlight"
This is the kind of user disrespecting stuff that I switched to Fedora for. I paid for your damn operating system. Stop jerking me around
> Why do I have ads in my start menu and lock screen?
Serious question. How do I enable ads on my windows 10 install? I reinstalled a while ago and don't feel like I've done anything special and windows has not shown me any ads that I am aware of.
My lockscreen is a randomized background, which I quite like, and a prompt for my user & password. Nothing else.
My start menu was shrunk in width to get rid of all of those tiles and just shows a list of software I have installed, and can be searched by typing in it. No ads, unless you count the "recently added" section listing software I installed recently.
There goes my daily work driver. Surprisingly, it still works awesome with all lots of civil engineering softwares. 16GB DDR3 with an i7 4th Gen. There is no reason to discard it yet. Historically as soon as Microsoft dropped Win7, many of these software followed suit. This is the reason we had to abandon God number of PCs. This time out will be my PC as well than.
In my experience, engineering tools tend to not run well (or at all) on Linux, even with WINE. I don't mean SolidWorks and AutoCAD - programs like Compress, Caesar II, CFTurbo, MAGMA (not the CAS), Carrier HAP; in short, all those engineering tools you never hear the name of before you start working in the relevant industry.
I hope you weren't doing any work where you were authenticating anywhere. The reason to discard it (the software) would be years of unpatched security vulnerabilities. Upgrade to Windows 10 or Linux!
(In general, “deprecating” is what’s being done no later than when they announce the pending removal. Deprecation means that it still works for now, but is not recommended and may go away in the future.)
50 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 79.5 ms ] threadAnother thing to keep in mind is that Windows 8.1 is still supported by Microsoft for another three months. Windows 8.1 is not outdated yet, not even according to Microsoft. Chrome's support will end a month after Microsoft's support ends, I'd think because very few people actually use 8.1 compared to the rest of the world.
In case your customers ask, Windows 7/8.1 users may be able to use Firefox (ESR, if necessary) if they want a maintained browser. The current Firefox ESR should be supported until at least August of next year and if Mozilla includes 7/8.1 support in version 115, then support should last until at least the end of next year.
and Pale moon, SeaMonkey, K-Meleon etc and judging by the Win XP situation a plethora of other (Chinese or not) Chromium based browsers as well.
https://msfn.org/board/topic/182794-updated-browser-list-for...
My favourite comment in one of the threads about it:
"Related "MS ended support for Win7" - sorry, how it corresponds to development?! Does your operating system gone away from SSD? Or Windows become rusty? Not. SYSTEM WORKS AS BEFORE, so please don't write stupid reasons "MS doesn't support" - nobody care of it, system works as usual and nothing prevents you from using Win7 (as I do now)."
I kind of like the no-nonsense honesty of it; made me smile :-) I don't think it's necessarily smart to keep running on Windows 7 given the support status, but they're not entirely wrong either: Windows 7 is a fine system. It works. Why "upgrade"?
Im da sheng, beratna.
Sure, keep using it. Just don't complain when one of a million external variables your software depends on suddenly stops working and nobody cares.
This is just nonsense. If the user feels so strongly, why don't they maintain the relevant software themselves and find out just how easy (not) it is to maintain support for an EOL operating system? Or why don't they just stick to outdated versions of all their software, like they chose to do with their operating system? Harassing open source developers who work for free is not a sane response.
If no, then the machines with Windows 7 could only be run offline, and existing software will continue to work as it is.
Forking over a couple hundred to uncle Bill for protection every five years or so is not entirely pointless.
...as you always should be anyway.
Forking over a couple hundred to uncle Bill for protection every five years or so is not entirely pointless.
...and being forced into their increasingly user-hostile manipulations? If anything, that saying about "known unknowns" and "unknown unknowns" comes to mind.
Yeah, I think 7 was the last good version. 8.1 was "sorry for 8.0" but the damage was done and the path forward (wonkily sideways and backwards) was set.
What's this end your are taking about? People day that about every new version of Windows at least since the 95 release and it doesn't seem to be happening.
> I'm not saying the old style is better for everyone, just me
I'm on the same page. But also, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with getting used to the new interface, except it doesn't show all the things the old interface had, some of which I use(d) frequently enough to be annoyed about their absence, meaning that I'd have to go back to the old interface, in turn meaning that I can't yet forget the old to make brain-space for the new. I find this infuriating, possibly because it highlights my brain's personal tech-debt; some kind of "curse of knowing".
Windows 7 was the last user friendly OS Microsoft has released, in my opinion. Windows 10 was a desperate attempt to take the 8 framework and stuff it into the desktop, but I don't think it's all as well-integrated as Windows 7 was.
It's a shame. The Windows 10/11 kernel is a marvel of technology. I just wish I could run the Windows 7 UI on top of it (and disable all the obnoxious tracking).
The decline definitely began at 8 and has accelerated recently.
Zoinks!
There are also lock screen ads by default called "windows spotlight"
This is the kind of user disrespecting stuff that I switched to Fedora for. I paid for your damn operating system. Stop jerking me around
Serious question. How do I enable ads on my windows 10 install? I reinstalled a while ago and don't feel like I've done anything special and windows has not shown me any ads that I am aware of.
My lockscreen is a randomized background, which I quite like, and a prompt for my user & password. Nothing else.
My start menu was shrunk in width to get rid of all of those tiles and just shows a list of software I have installed, and can be searched by typing in it. No ads, unless you count the "recently added" section listing software I installed recently.
Same reason you have that on iOS -- to easily reset it if the ad network gets too creepy.
It's not widely in use, and refers to the ad network available in some UWP/Store apps, e.g.: some of the ad-supported Microsoft casual games.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
(In general, “deprecating” is what’s being done no later than when they announce the pending removal. Deprecation means that it still works for now, but is not recommended and may go away in the future.)
That's not too far from https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey which is gives a 2.52% average for all Steam games.