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Never going to buy subscription based hardware.
Oura destroyed their business this way.
They seem to be doing alright, I still like mine…

Are you basing that just off the sentiment of their subreddit or some other data?

I love my Oura ring but if I didn't get the subscription for free from upgrading to the newer ring I wouldn't have bought it.
I am of the same opinion, I however don't know if this is a fitting label for this product.

If I read this correctly they offer an optional service called "Connect" where notes and sketches are stored in their cloud:

> Here’s what’s included with your reMarkable if you don't have a subscription: > > Google Drive, Dropbox, and OneDrive integration > > Access the most popular cloud storage services from your digital notebook with Integrations. Browse stored files, copy them to your reMarkable, and upload notes and documents directly to your Google Drive, Dropbox, or OneDrive accounts from your paper tablet.

The even have a guide showing you how to setup these other services.

Sure it is still not optimal, it should be more hackable and people should be able to add their own cloud/syncing solutions if tou ask me, but this is not "subscription based hardware" by my standards.

Hardware can still be used.. only cloud storage seems to be problem.

Without Connect (~$4/month), only files used and synced online in the last 50 days will continue to be stored in the reMarkable cloud or updated in our mobile and desktop apps. It’s also possible to turn off the sync functionality if you don’t wish to use the cloud service.

The device is rather useless without the cloud service, isn't it.
Why is it useless without cloud if you can still use USB?
They broke that feature. They’ve been quite responsive to my Zendesk ticket, and claim to be working on it. But I don’t know if they fixed it yet. For a number of versions at least it was impossible to use USB upload.

Also, it was always advertised as “experimental”. They don’t officially support non-cloud use.

Edit: To clarify that last comment, I mean non-cloud use for the advertised primary benefits. I.e. getting your notes off (and onto) the device.

That’s absolutely insane. I’m exactly the kind of person that would be interested in the RM2 but every time it comes up on HN I learn something new that keeps me away. Strange business.
With this issue I think it’s just they’re in move fast break things mode still. Probably feeling the heat from the competition and focusing on competitive features.

But as a user, my impression is that they don’t consider this feature to be existential enough to have a smoke test for. And I do.

Thanks for explaining. I definitely don’t want to have a “connected” or “cloud first” experience. If I wanted to get locked in with a cloud, I would probably to find bigger players, at least they are more likely to be around in few years.
That's very generous. Yes they're moving faster than before, but for a while it seemed like they didn't have any developers at all. Instead they spend an insane amount of money on marketing.

And for a long time (I'm an early v1 user) what they did deliver was miniscule, ignoring a lot of the feedback from core users about basic issues. Some of the "new" features being released recently even existed in early v1 releases, e.g. the screen sharing which used to work fine locally, but now doesn't anymore because it "needs" to go via their cloud.

The break stuff unintentionally too though, so you're right there. For a few releases they even broke the core writing feature - lines and drawings would be drawn all jaggy - and the fix took forever.

The marketing worked and tricked me into buying one, but it's clear to me now that reMarkable is first and foremost a marketing company, tech and users come second. I won't be spending any more money with them.

> They don’t officially support non-cloud use.

Stop spreading FUD, they literally have a page that lists what you can do without cloud.

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-wi...

> Google Drive, Dropbox, and OneDrive integration

These are cloud services.

> Handwriting conversion

> You need to be connected to Wi-Fi and logged in to your reMarkable account.

> Read on reMarkable

> Once you’ve logged into your account and sent content to your reMarkable paper tablet, you can review, annotate, and focus on the task you’re working on without any distractions.

Almost every use-case requires some sort of connectivity to a cloud. No mention of USB.

That's a selective quote. I'm talking about being able to get files on and off the device.

That notwithstanding, looking at the page you link, let's look at each heading and what it says.

Google Drive, Dropbox, and OneDrive integration

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Integrating-with-Go...

"Step 1: Log in to my.remarkable.com and click the menu in the top right-hand corner."

Handwriting conversion

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Convert-handwritten...

"You need to be connected to a Wi-Fi network and logged into a reMarkable account (my.remarkable.com) in order to use handwriting conversion."

Read on reMarkable

Chrome:

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Read-on-reMarkable-...

"You’ll also need a reMarkable account to use this feature."

Microsoft Office:

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Read-on-reMarkable-...

"8. Log in with your reMarkable account."

Screen Share

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Screen-Share

"Your reMarkable needs to be paired with the cloud"

Send by email

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Send-by-email

"Note: You must be connected to Wi-Fi to share files from your reMarkable. You won’t see an option to send a file if you’re not connected to Wi-Fi and signed into an account."

Tags

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Tags

You can tag pages without a cloud account. It's useful but at best an anciliary feature.

Limited cloud sync

https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Connect

You need an account.

Okay, I misunderstood your original point. Thought by cloud you meant subscription.
It does highlight the ambiguity around how people define the word 'cloud'. I think the first para of Wikipedia does it well:

> Cloud computing is the on-demand availability of computer system resources, especially data storage (cloud storage) and computing power, without direct active management by the user [0]

i.e. "someone else's computer". I want the core advertised reMarkable features to be on my computer(s). Not half mine, half theirs.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

Beat me to it. That was a dealbreaker for me.

I got a couple of Rocketbook notebooks for when I want something that really feels like paper, plus an iPad for the large-screen computing bits. Pity, because I love the idea of the Remarkable and would strongly consider it were it not for the subscription.

While the RM2 is probably the simplest/easiest to use, there are actually a lot of other eink tablet manufacturers - Boox, Supernote, Fujitsu Quaderno, and Quirklogic are probably the ones I'd look at. They have different tradeoffs on features, cost, size, etc but all can do roughly the same thing (allow paper-like notetaking, outdoor reading, etc).
There's an option to self host (rmfakecloud) if you find the hardware compelling. Still a fairly niche device though.
Is this subscription-based hardware though? It's an open linux device and you can write any software you want to work with it. There's no requirement to pay for their cloud storage if you don't want to.
Does it work as an offline book reader?
Yes. Official support for uploading PDF and unencrypted EPUB over USB but the interface is designed for annotating instead of reading. koreader or plato can be installed (unofficially) for a much better reading-first experience.
Sure. But be warned it doesn't support Adobe DRM ePubs and the ePub support is really bad. Like worse than a 10 year old Kobo bad. PDFs work fine.

For book reading look at literally anyone else in the space. Kobo, Amazon, Boox, Boyue all make 10" note takers now and they'll do a better job at displaying books.

I hope R3 gets released so this goes on sale, want it but the price is oof.
When I looked at it a few months ago: "$279? That's not too bad.. oh wait, that's for refurb. $299 new. Okay, still good. Wait what.. $129 for the pen, too? Hang on... $179 for the cover/case?!"

Talk about nickle and diming you.

But wait, there's more! Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Monthly Recurring Revenue?

Will that thing needs a subscription too? I guess so...

I’m a customer. The hardware (reMarkable 1 refurb) is nice. I bought it a while back before they made this change to the website.

But advertising the price without the pen is so dishonest. It’s not nickel and dime, it’s deceptive marketing. It destroys trust.

It means that as a happy customer, I will never recommend the product.

One thing about the Remarkable is that it, like many other eink tablets uses a Wacom EMR layer so almost any third party Wacom pen should work ($25-50). The Lamy Al-star is pretty good and available worldwide. I like the Staedtler Noris jumbo pen as well (although the nib is significantly softer/rubberier so it might not appeal to everyone). My favorite pen atm, which might not be available globally, is the Wacom CP20206BZ - it's a stylus embedded in a wooden Mitsubishi Hi-Uni shell, and it feels awesome in the hand.

I was a Remarkable 1 early adopter and am grandfathered in on their cloud plan but I actually ended up not using it so much (their software sucked for most of the device lifetime). A couple years ago I ended up switching to a Boox Note 3 instead of a RM2 and it's responsive enough for me (the competition mostly caught up on latency) and as a full Android system, it's much more functional for me. It's been easier for me to keep my PDFs/papers in sync, I can read all my Kobo and Kindle books, and it's fine for notetaking. There's a small niche of YouTubers that do in depth reviews of various eink tablets (My Deep Guide is probably the most in depth) which I'd recommend for anyone in the market.

I think I saw that the pens aren't compatible between reMarkable version 1 and 2.

EDIT not incompatible: https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Markers-and-Marker-...

I don't have an RM2 so I can't say for sure, there might be some differences w/ button compatibility or calibration, but from what I've seen online and w/ various reviews, most of the different pens should all be interchangeable if they are using Wacom EMR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgj5Y7NHY74

https://www.joshualowcock.com/guide/remarkable-2-compatible-...

Premium products cost premium money. Packaging, leather folio, stylus, device itself, they all look, work and feel like top quality.
I really wanted to buy it until noticing the pen + case cost more than the device. That's absurd. I assume it's pointless with any other pen?
My dream machine is an e-ink tablet that runs both KOReader as well as Zotero. Make that and I’ll buy it in a heartbeat. The perfect combo for a reader/academic.
There are lots of android-based e-ink tablets out there that do that.

I have a Onyx Boox Note 2. The company is kind of a bunch of dicks (GPL violations ahoy!) but it works very nicely.

There are other alternatives out at this point.

Remarkable needs a backlight, otherwise there is no reason to upgrade past R1.
*Frontlight. Backlight is not possible in eink readers, right?
My Kobo has an adjustable backlight that works great.
Are you sure it’s a backlight? I’m looking at my Libra 2 and can’t tell whether the light’s in front or in back.
Maybe its back but conducted to front through a piece of translucent plastic? I.e. still a frontlight.
I can say perceptually it's a backlight, how they did it in engineering terms I'm not sure.

It can even be in dark mode and variably backlight only the foreground content with no change in the illumination of the dark background.

I'm curious: how does Amazon's foray into this sector affect anyone's feelings? Do people want a single-purpose device like this, or would they rather have a multi-purpose Kindle (or iPad, with more functionality but much less battery life)?
I own an rm2 and love it. However, I also love my Kindle and if I had to choose I'd choose the Kindle.

When my Kindle (or RM) dies, I'll almost certainly replace it with the new writable Kindle, especially as I assume it's backlit which I feel is something really missing from the RM.

The big differentiator in these products is drawing latency. Currently there's only two with barely acceptable level IMO: Remarkable 2 and Supernote a5x/a6x, both around 30ms.

I can't find any numbers for the Kindle Scribe so I guess no one has tested yet. But I also bet if Amazon was proud of the number they'd be shouting about it - especially if it was better than the others.

So Remarkable and Supernote are probably fine for another generation at least.

Huawei MatePad Paper is under 30
the iPad Pro gets to around 9ms perceived latency by using a very interesting trick. Essentially, it predicts the direction the pencil is moving and generates a short straight line in that direction. After the pencil has moved on, it corrects the line to follow the actual path the pencil took. I wonder if the e-ink companies could do that?
i remember reading that backlight on eink tablet compromises writing experience, which was why Supernote didn't add it. I can believe that as backlight probaly requires an extra layer between the writing surface and the sensing surface. Seeing that Amazon Scribe has backlight I imagine they prioritized e-reading vs e-writing, which is understandable because Kindle.

This is all pure speculation though.

I do have Supernote and the writing is as good as it gets for me paper-wise, my brain is fooled into thinking I am proofreading text printed on paper, which was all i wanted from that device.

It makes me cheer more for Remarkable. I hate that big tech can use their muscles/money to just bleed competition dry, and then end up with the majority of the market share and us customers are worse off.
When I got my Remarkable I thought I'd be using it to read books and put lots of books on it, but actually I've ended up only using it to take notes. I often read books on another device, then take notes on the Remarkable at the same time.
I have tablets (colour display, android/iOS) and a Kindle.

As far as reading is concerned there is no comparison, the kindle wins on nearly every metric.

I just wish they would offer a kindle with a 10" display.

I will probably get the kindle scribe once it has been out for a bit, has good reviews and a software update.

A wonderful product ruined by a proprietary cloud. The problem with the latter was very promptly proven by the unilateral imposition of a subscription. The product is useless without its cloud.
I have an Onyx Boox e-ink writing device. While it also has a cloud service, it seems to be less necessary since it is just Android so you can just install whatever you need on it. I use Syncthing for this and it works fine.
How is the writing/drawing latency in practice? I watched some videos comparing the Remarkable 2, Supernote a5, and Boox Note 2.

From the video it looked like the Boox had a bad delay. Could appear worse because of the backlight which increases distance from pen to screen.

The Supernote and Remarkable also had visible delay that would annoy me, but the larger delay of the Boox looked like a deal breaker to me.

I've had a Boox Note Air 2 since launch and I can't discern any drawing delay. It's fantastic to write / draw with.
Question from a fellow Note Air 2 user but is there any note taking app replacement that can do the handwriting recognition better than the default app? I'd like to recognize only part of the notes (not the entire page, if I write figures or math formulas that function blows it up ) so that my notes become searchable
Everyone in this thread take note, re: security.

Boox devices relentlessly phone home to IP addresses in China. This is in addition to syncing to alibaba cloud servers in Calofornia.

I have the Supernote and the delay is pretty much gone. It feels like writing on paper.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/hsn7kx/onyx_usin...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ereader/comments/mpyi5q/is_it_safe_...

Please refrain from ever mentioning anything positive about this company. Whataboutism in a tech support, GPL violations, constant pinging some server in China.

It should be vilified.

It should. These devices are not safe.

On top of all of the above, security firmware updates for android are horribly non-existent, or very lagged.

What do you mean by useless? Does it completely not work when not connected to the cloud or you just loose sync between devices feature?
I don’t use cloud and find it perfectly usable without it.

I think there’s also a way to setup private cloud.

I use a RM2 every day. I don't pay for the subscription. After they emailed me that my free trial was ending, I just turned it off, because I didn't use any of the subscription features
Wonderful product ruined by marketing. The only reason they have proprietary cloud is to be able to suck money out of users.
(comment deleted)
The rm2 is a really nice device but you also have to take into account the price for their subscription service. IMHO they totally ruined it with their subscription service. On the other, I assume this is the only way they could raise the money to keep going. Times don't get better for them with more and more e-ink devices that support note taking etc.
Worth noting they actually announced changes to subscription that basically cancels the whole thing. Subscription still exists, it's cheaper, but basic functions that we (clients) were told comes with device itself are again not tied to subscription.

That move of theirs was insane, this change must be a direct reflections of clients correctly voting with their wallets.

I bought a Remarkable 2 just before they imposed subscriptions. It’s grandfathered into the old plan (free unlimited storage). Anyone looking to buy it with case, stylus, extra nibs, etc please contact me in my profile email address. Love it but don’t use it.
If you were told it comes with the device as a client then it comes with the device. They were transparent about the switch to subscriptions, anyone who bought before subscriptions has all these features for free, anyone who bought after would have been able to read about the subscription model before buying.
That is not exactly true, but they sure made it look that way.

First we (those before-subscription buyers) lost possibility to resell the device with same functionality. Before that they eagerly let switch an email and RM account to new users.

Secondly there was no clear information if free subscription will last. If it was permanent, then why not stating it clearly or replying to tickets about that issue.

Lastly warranty was suddenly limited to one year and users with subscription. If you resigned from subscription but later changed your mind, the warranty was lost anyway. How that even got through their legal team is a mystery to me.

>this change must be a direct reflections of clients correctly voting with their wallets.

This sentence irks me on so many levels...

"Voting with a wallet" doesn't work, doesn't exist and is never taken into account anywhere, except in the mind of the American Consumer. Not buying a Remarkable when the subscription was added means your opinion on the matter just never showed up during product decisions, planning or analysis.

Instead, it got changed because Remarkable listen to what its users say and EXISTING users actively disliked that subscription. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with potential buyers avoiding it.

Returns, on that matter, are active users expressing their opinions. Not imaginary buyers "voting with their wallet".

Sorry that it irks you but we misunderstood completely.

Never meant new people buying RM. Meant those who suddenly had to decide if they should go with subscription. I'm following several forums/subreddits and to be honest it looks like most people buy on impulse without checking what this device is at all. They think it's eink iPad and can do same things.

Also I hope you don't suggest that RM decided to lower subscription price by 60% and basically bring most functions to people without subscription anyway, because it was a massive commercial success?

My guess is that the handwriting translation (ICR) stuff requires cloud processing?
Amazon is entering this space with the upcoming Kindle Scribe. I wish Remarkable luck, but the odds of them surviving as an independent entity is going to plummet if the Scribe is at all decent.
I was curious if the device could recognise my terrible handwriting. As per this page, they use MyScript[1].

Here's a demo of the software if anyone's interested to confirm the same: https://webdemo.myscript.com/views/text/index.html

1: https://myscript.com (TIL)

I use MyScript Nebo on my iPad for note taking and it works great. The handwriting recognition is impressive!
Beautiful, but inaccessible site
If you can get your own root certificate on this thing you can see how its cloud transfer works and theoretically redirect it to your own box, but it would most likely be a lot of work.
Now partner with framework laptops and make an eink laptop already
I am one of the original kickstarter backers and got mine at a very favorable price compared to what they are selling it for now. As a original kickstarter backer they also provided me with a free tier for their subscription service so I am not paying anything extra to have full functionality, this is very important to me because I am not very excited of subscription based software features - remarkable please take note of this!

The remarkable unit is still a thing of beauty. It excels at what it does, and I bring it with me everywhere. I use the cloud features to pick up documents and use it to hold my PDFs and eBooks and it is an important device for my note taking. I have modded the unit a little bit by replacing the original back-ground pictures. To be able to access this device as root appeals very much to me, I very much feel in control of my device.

From a security point of view, they still have some work to do. It is embarrassing when the unit goes into sleep mode and private notes are kept visible to everyone. I created a ticket in they support system, but they don't seem to take it seriously. There is also the issue with only having a 4-code pin to unlock the device. This means that you must be very careful with what you write and store on the unit. Sensitive notes should not be stored on the unit.

There is also no way to deprecate the unit and the content if it is lost or it hasn't check in against the cloud.

The software that is installed on your PC/Mac has very basic functionality.

Overall, would still strongly recommend, 8/10.

Funny, I often wish to leave the note on screen while in sleep mode. I kinda wish there were two actions, one for lock and another for sleep... or something.
I had a ticket on this. There's no reason not to write "device is off" on the banner which is already there in sleep mode.

A notebook doesn't make the note disappear.

mine has "remarkable is sleeping" shown when it's sleeping, and I need to unlock it to get it to show anything.
I was referring to the "press button to use your remarkable" that you can see inbetween before it goes to sleep.
Our (multi billion dollar) company had to tell the exec "no" for these because of the weak security.

They just dont seem to care. Other wise we would have hundreds in the business.

What kind of security are they lacking? I compare it with a notepad, which you lock away in a drawer when you don’t want people to access it.
MDM

We want to be able to restrict what gets synced to where. (eg, not dropbox or box or google etc)

We want to enforce passwords and screen time outs. We'd prefer to use intune to do this but are open to other possibilities etc etc

None of this is possible and remarkable don't seem interested in this.

The point is that you can't do this with notebooks though, seems silly to want to do this here, with maybe the exception of blocking sync services you can't monitor. Which is totally possible with a bit of competence.
Though is, 'you also cannot do this with a real notebook' valid argument? Neither can you upload pdf's to a real notebook or do all the other stuff that makes this device not just a ... regular notebook.
Exactly. A paper notebook might not have those security features, but it’s also a lot harder to end up with reams of confidential info in a paper notebook in the blink of an eye, on a whim; or to transmit that data to arbitrary third parties. There’s a “proportionality” argument between features and security.
Right, but if I wanted a notebook I'd buy a notebook. What I want is a tablet for taking notes, which has a different security profile.
Ah, yeah. I can see why they’re not interested in touching that market with a 10ft pole.

It’d make them tons of money but it would drain their soul.

That's a shame. I can see a zillion possibilities for this if it played nicely with InTune.
Funny, all I see is an authentication prompt every 17 minutes because Azure AD can't get its shit together.
> We want to be able to restrict what gets synced to where. (eg, not dropbox or box or google etc)

Can't that kind of "strong security measure that is absolutely critical to our business" be circumvented with one single bash command that takes data from the "totally OK with our super strong MDM rules service" and copies it to the "absolutely forbidden by our MDM so surely no one is using it service" ?

A notepad doesn't sync to the cloud.
Neither does my Remarkable 2. You actually have to pay them money for that to happen, and switching it off is free. Considering you actually have root access, it's a bit better than a phone
With regard to security, it seems to me that the most obvious comparison for the ReMarkable would be a paper notepad which would also be compromised if you had physical access?

Saying this as a former ReMarkable owner (and kickstarter backer) who ended up only using the device as a notepad, after learning that I read in a non-linear fashion which doesn't work well on the relatively slow screen. And for notes, I ended up deciding that paper is simpler that dragging yet another device around.

Still, I highly recommend the ReMarkable and my device happily lives on as a school notebook for my son.

I also only use it for notes but I have the tendency to not be too nice to paper notes making them less readable over time so it's definately a plus. A bit too expensive since there are simpler alternatives but for a premium device and price I like the feel of it. The slowness doesn't bother me too much, I also use it for going through several specification files and it's not too slow that it's unusable.
fellow nonlinear-reader here. random access to an otherwise rather linear content format is so key for me, and the responsiveness and user interface are maddening. now i can't stop marveling at paper as a medium -- it got so many things right. it certainly wasn't the first try by humans. we tried clay plates and sheep skin and bamboo chips, until we hit upon paper. but nonetheless it's amazing that paper is still not surpassed after more than a thousand years.
> after more than a thousand years.

A lot more than a thousand years[0].

I have an iPad Mini with a PaperLike screen protector, and Pencil 2. Works wonderfully. I have a number of apps to convert input, and they work quite well. Apple did very well, with Pencil 2 (don’t get me started on Pencil 1).

I still prefer a paper notepad, most times, though.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus

> i can't stop marveling at paper as a medium -- it got so many things right. it certainly wasn't the first try by humans. we tried clay plates and sheep skin and bamboo chips, until we hit upon paper. but nonetheless it's amazing that paper is still not surpassed after more than a thousand years.

Does paper have any advantage over vellum ("sheep skin") other than being cheaper?

Most of the media you mention are superior to paper in various ways, but either logistically difficult (clay) or expensive (vellum). Paper is the "my car's turn signal stopped working, so I bought a new car" of recording media. It is cheap to manufacture, it rots quickly, it is easily destroyed, and it's cheap to replace.

Well, you sort of elided the chief benefit of paper's cheapness - the lowered cost of mass distribution of the information stored on it. Hence why any given pulp fiction novel had more readers than the Dead Sea Scrolls, despite the latter having sat around for 2 millennia.
> Does paper have any advantage over vellum ("sheep skin") other than being cheaper?

Ink takes far less time to dry on paper as opposed to vellum from my understanding. It's also thinner and easier to use in printing presses. Paper also can be produced in various thicknesses/with various textures to allow for different kind of work. (Think newspaper paper vs. watercolor paper). Paper is also recyclable - you can break down paper and use it to create new paper.

> Paper is also recyclable - you can break down paper and use it to create new paper.

You say this like it wasn't completely routine to do it with vellum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palimpsest

> Paper also can be produced in various thicknesses/with various textures to allow for different kind of work. (Think newspaper paper vs. watercolor paper

Again, this sounds like it's purely driven by cost concerns. Newspapers aren't printed on paper that's better suited to being a newspaper than the normal stuff. They're printed on awful, kleenex-like paper that will tear in a light breeze and that smudges ink all over you if you touch it at all. But I assume newspaper paper is even cheaper than other paper.

(And indeed, newspapers with a high opinion of themselves produce separate "archival quality" editions on non-awful paper!)

Clay and vellum can also easily be produced in "various thicknesses" (see: palimpsests!), though admittedly it's tough to get clay to be as thin as you'd like.

Reusable =/= recyclable. Palimpest is more like erasing pencil writing and then re-writing.

> Again, this sounds like it's purely driven by cost concerns.

It's not - I was thinking of fine art applications. You can't make tracing clay or vellum, for example. Or textured paper to work with different types of paints/inks.

Being reusable is strictly superior to being recyclable, so it doesn't matter that they aren't identical.

> You can't make tracing clay or vellum, for example.

That is fair.

> With regard to security, it seems to me that the most obvious comparison for the ReMarkable would be a paper notepad which would also be compromised if you had physical access?

No that doesn't sound like an obvious comparison at all. It has a feature that it feels like a notepad when writing, but that's where the similarities end. Imagine if you compared a phone security to a flashlight because phones have a torch feature.

It's still a device with digital and connected capabilities, a completely different security context.

I think the security concerns are a lot closer to a notebook than they are to other digital devices. It really doesn't do many things. It writes notes, and has ebooks and pdfs.

A smartphone requires different security concepts than a flashlight because access to a smartphone can open up all sorts of risks- identity theft, bank account access, etc. But that's not true for the reMarkable. It offers roughly the same capabilities as a notebook. If someone got into my reMarkable they would have access to exactly the same stuff as if they got into my old notebooks.

  > The software that is installed on your PC/Mac has very basic functionality.
Is there Linux software? What do you need the software for anyway?
It works with wine. It syncs books and notes to/from the cloud account to your local device.
To me it's the opposite: I expect to be able to read the note which is on screen indefinitely, that is: exactly how I leave a notebook open on a page.

Physical security is a non-issue in this class of device IMHO. It's the same security I expect on a physical notebook. If that gets stolen, it's stolen. If we can get something better (like full encryption with pin unlock - so that the other non visible pages are safe) than I would be more happy, but the current status is still perfectly fine.

What's NOT ok is the reliance on the cloud features. There's no encryption. No control on sharing. It's either all or nothing. You can turn this off, but then you cannot send the notes elsewhere (it's fine if I'm intentionally sending one page to somebody I know he can receive it). Screenshare also stops working, despite being a dumb vnc connection wrapped in ssl, just because the central randevouz point becomes inaccessible.

This is also why this makes this device unfit for company use IMHO: your users cannot be compliant with any sort of security policy unless they disable everything and just use it as a dumb notebook. Getting it stolen is a non issue: you can get a notebook stolen, it's your fault. But if I cannot control the cloud features in a fine-grained mode, then it's outside of your control and that's what makes the device really unfit for corporate use.

I hope remarkable is listening. I opened several tickets for this: just allow me to disable sync for a folder or everything (without killing send by email) would already be a start.

It's otherwise an amazing device, but a device you cannot trust with the cloud features, which is a major shame.

Is there a reason this is trending, I can't see any changes recently?

I played with the RM1 at work and quite liked it, but the locked down experience is a deal breaker. I want to be able to work with Obsidian (Onyx Boox might do this).

Amazon recently announced a similar product and it seems like Remarkable has increased their marketing budget because of this.
Yah HN is gamed big time. Must be easy to get stuff to the front page.
Prove it
Not a fan of this whole "HN is being gamed" thread, but dammit this made me laugh out loud.
You don't believe people try to get stuff to the front page of HN and Reddit?

I'm not saying there is a foolproof way to do it, but this is what marketing and PR firms do every day.

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Incredible. A product often mentioned on the site got outvoted for part of a day
they just changed their subscription service to be cheaper (3$/mo instead of idk 8-9?) and re-included more into their free service. So it appears that maybe now the device might be interesting to new customers again...

I have one and like it, but actually don't use it much since I don't need to write many notes nowadays. However, reading manga is nice with it (but a little cumbersome as the device does not accept zip files with jpgs/png so one probably has to convert files).

I don't begrudge companies linking product announcements, but this is not that. It's not a new product, and it's not an announcement of any sort.
What is your process for reading manga on the device? I've considered loading some up on mine, but I haven't come up with a process at all yet. I've actually considered writing a custom program for it to specifically load up a manga zip file, but I'm working on a way to talk to external storage first so I don't wear out the internal memory loading in a bunch of test programs.
convert the jpgs/pngs from the zip into a pdf... yes, as I said: cumbersome. One could also install a custom OS but I haven't done that.
How does Onyx Boox work with Obsidian? Is it because it runs Android?
At least in theory you can run anything on the Onyx Boox because, as you say, it runs Android. I haven't tried it but it's a starting point.
My Note Air 2 is just an android tablet. You can install any android app on it. Depending on what the App wants to do with the screen it works somewhere between really well (very rarely needs refreshes) and terribly (app needs refreshes very often, a lot of things change between frames).
Hard to imagine how it could be less locked down. What's the alternative?
I loved my Remarkable 1/2, used both of them daily. For awhile, Remarkable felt like the best in class e-ink tablet. The writing experience is lovely. I ended up giving them away after 1-2 years of use though.

Currently prefer Onyx Box Nova Air C for the backlight, color e-ink, and split screen capabilities. Since Onyx runs an Android variant, I can use Libby/Overdrive to check out audio/ebooks from my local library. Remarkable's software was painful to depend on daily.

I adore e-ink tablets as a class of devices, largely due to a positive first experience with Remarkable. Hoping Remarkable figures out a sane business model.

> Onyx Box Nova Air C

Call me old fashioned, but I just cannot take a product with a name like this seriously.

Is it a knockoff sold by OODREEFT on Amazon? Does it come pre-installed with Chinese spyware?

That’s the signal a name like that gives me. Same for the fact that it runs an android variant.

Even if the remarkable software is sometimes suboptimal at least they took the time to build their own.

> Does it come pre-installed with Chinese spyware?

It literally does, yes.

Is this a substantiated claim in any way?
There's telemetry from Boox's app store, which can be disabled. I can sniff traffic and blog the results, if people are interested.

Edited: I should also note that my threat model is someone who cares about my personal privacy, but my life doesn't depend on it.

Someone else would need to inspect for the kind of rootkits nation-state actors would be worried about. I just use mine to read library books, doodle, and mark up white papers.

No it's not a knockoff (although it should be Boox not Box). And Oynx built their own software too? Just on top of Android instead of Linux. It's pretty customized and their apps are well designed to work on eInk screens. Android just adds a boat load of functionality because you get access to a ton of apps that work well on a touch screen.
How about that LG OLED C2 Evo 55" TV? Do you prefer that over LG OLED C1 or maybe LG NanoCell 80 Series or Nanocell 90 Series?

Or maybe those Apple iPhone XS Max phones? Or iPhone 14 Plus or iPhone 13 Pro Max? Are these knock-offs sold by a reseller on Amazon?

What I am saying is that there are (universally accepted as) good products that have silly names. Naming is done by marketing departments trying to be clever, products are designed by design/engineering departments trying to be clever.

Call me old fashioned, but I know which I care about more.

Don't forget Sony, with their WH1000XM3s and Xperia 5 IIIs.
Indeed, contrast between WH and WF1000XM3/4 is even better!
Yes, they do, actually. The difference is that I know the Apple/LG brand.

I’m not even sure what the brand name (if any) is in the OP.

While I do know what the brand is (it's "Onyx Boox"), I would certainly not vouch for them. But I wouldn't vouch for either Apple or LG: they make some crappy products as well.

But just like with product names, I prefer to judge products not on the brand, but on their qualities. Non-sponsored reviews and a fit for my needs is what I care about.

Anyway, even recognized brand names were once only starting in fields they ended up dominating. Onyx Boox is a recognizable name in the e-reader space for anyone looking for a non-Kindle e-reader (and probably quite comparable to reMarkable in how "famous" they are).

Ford Bronco Sport Big Bend.

Ford is the brand. Bronco is a model of SUV. Sport is a trim. Big Bend is a sub trim.

And Jeep has them both beat with the Jeep Grand Wagoneer Series III, which is actually smaller than the Jeep Wagoneer Series III.

I’ve bought myself a reMarkable 2 with the approach that „I’m just getting an expensive toy” (ie not an everyday work tool, just a nice gizmo). And it’s been great, if a bit pricey. (On the flip side, I have a free subscription.)

Some things I’ve used it for, so far:

- To write handwritten.blog.

- As a notebook. Nothing much to mention here. Being able to pick a page template (plain/dotted/lined/squared) is nice.

- Reading PDFs. Kindle won’t quite cut it, even with k2pdfopt – the screen size makes a difference. Plus, you can annotate them!

- Reading code. `npx repo-to-pdf some-repo` and then proceed as above. Great for getting oneself into a full-focus mode.

- Live-sketching at conference calls. I just share the reMarkable screen to my Mac and then share the companion app’s window on Zoom. Tried it out twice during internal brown-bags, worked very nice.

- As an actual toy. Getting grandma’s picture onto an e-ink screen and being able to draw a moustache lights up a big smile on my 8yo niece’s face.

Is it easy to use for reading daily news, or would that require some hacking to get my news content to transfer to it automatically?
Also have a remarkable. While hacking it is reasonably easy, you would need to do a bit of it to make this work smoothly I think.
There's nothing in the main ecosystem for getting news content on the device (besides manually sending individual articles to the rM via the chrome extension).

I'm working on a project that pulls from RSS/Twitter/Reddit, formats all your subscriptions into a single pdf, and syncs to Google Drive (which the rM can sync with). It's working great for me so far but is the closest to "automatic" I think you can achieve with the device right now.

That’s great to hear, thanks for your response. I think I’ll buy it and try to hack together something similar for my news sources.
Hey there, does sharing the screen to Mac require some kind of cloud sync? If so, is there any noticeable delay from sketching on the device to appearing on Mac?
I wrote pipes-and-paper[1] which sort of shares your screen without any cloud. Getting to what the display puts out is difficult, but recording the pen strokes isn't. So what I wrote is a small webserver that runs on the reMarkable (1 and 2) that sends the penstrokes to the webbrowser via Websockets. It draws all penstrokes on a camvas in the browser and also deletes strokes when the eraser is used.

[1] https://github.com/AnyTimeTraveler/pipes-and-rust

I love your blog, but I must say I can't read it for longer than 1 or 2 minutes. That probably says more about me than your blog for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a common experience.
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The HN GPT-3 summarizer is cool. How is the accuracy?
I honestly cannot see the value in ReMarkable after the Kindle Scribe announcement. The kindle has a newer faster, 300dpi display vs 226dpi on the ReMarkable. I am waiting on reviews before ordering one for myself, but I can already see that Kindle Scribe is going to be disruptive for this segment.
Supposedly higher latency and worse experience when writing(also supposedly). I own Remarkable 2, and unless they can replicate same paper feeling, it won’t a replacement for Remarkable.

But it is a nice eBook reader, yes.

The kindle will be using wacom emr which is more then adequate for most people. I never had a problem with the technology before and I don't think it will be practically worse. I can't imagine most people expect it to feel like writing on paper.
That’s one of the main selling points of Remarkable. It was never targeted at “most” people.
The reMarkable and the Kindle both use Wacom EMR, but that doesn't determine latency on these devices. It's all about the display's refresh rate... That's always been the Achilles Heel of ePaper. Honestly, the reMarkable 2 is perfectly fine for me.
RM user base seems like a very niche Venn diagram:

1) People that love the feel of fountain pen writing.

2) People that love having all of their notes electronically.

I love what writing feels like, so I have a pen and paper and study offline (I typically throw out my notes). Generally, if you belong to just one of the two categories, you don't need to pay the RM premium.

I am hoping the carta 1200/1250 display which ever it ends up shipping with will help to reduce latency, but for my use case which is more reading and less note taking it is seemingly perfect.
Same here: waiting for reviews before I jump on the wagon. Although, my primary motivation is to read PDF documents, especially the 2-column ones, than the prospect of taking notes or drawing. I hope it won't disappoint.
Not sure I want ads on my screen while trying to take notes, or ad popups randomly when starting software.

This is a kindle for you, so why would this be different?

I get that its a dig on Amazon, but Im 100% sure they won't display ads on notes.
IMHO 10" is too small for PDFs. Now that Amazon is after their market, they should go someplace that Amazon isn't: devices with letter / A4 sized display.

I believe Sony and Fujitsu sell a 13.3" epaper device and of course the iPad is available in that size. There's a whole lot of space between the very limited $700 Quaderno and the super powerful $2000 iPad Pro.

I bought a Remarkable 2 - the UI design wasn’t there for me yet and I only persisted with it for a few days, but I am a big believer in the product category and would certainly give the next one a try. However, I think it will be forever niche. Not many people have any interest in writing by hand, and of those that do, only an few are so keen on digital organisation that they would buy one of these. It seems like a permanently small (but well heeled and discerning) target market, something for boutique tech companies to focus on, not giants. So I find it weird that Amazon is targeting this market at all - I don’t see how they plan to grow it into something big enough for them to care about. I feel like Kindle Scribe might just be an experiment that they will kill in a few years.

Anyone got any thoughts on this? Does Amazon have some big strategy that I’m missing here? How do they plan to persuade large numbers of people to buy into digital handwriting?

They've got a bigger screened Kindle, and included a pen with it.

They don't need to convince anyone to start taking notes on their Kindles, they just need to get people who want larger screens for reading to get them. Pen is a nice extra. And sure, there's 10% (pulled out of my behind, citation missing) of Scribe buyers who'd get it for note taking.

reMarkable is probably rightfully concerned since Amazon can easily outprice them, which they are already doing.

> Anyone got any thoughts on this? Does Amazon have some big strategy that I’m missing here? How do they plan to persuade large numbers of people to buy into digital handwriting?

Have you use office 365 or onenote? An iPad with the Apple pen recently? Any digital notes are organized by default, the latency and poor refresh rate makes eink impossible for replacing notebooks to me, but an LCD works great. Handwriting is already mainstream, as is using it on computer.

If you’re asking about Amazon most buyers of kindle fall between either upgrading every cycle and never using it, never upgrading their kindle keyboard, or more commonly never used it more than 3hr in total. Kindle sales are going to be good either way since type 1 buyers love tech for tech.

I think ReMarkable's resolution is perfectly fine, and a higher DPI wouldn't make a significant difference.

However, it needs a better contrast. I can't tell if Scribe beats it on that, because in Scribe product videos their screen seems similarly dull, but other product shots have contrast so high it looks photoshopped.

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I used to have the earlier version of Kindle, it was called Kindle DX (much bigger screen compared to new kindle editions). When that one broke down I didn't get another e-reader until now. Now I see that I can get something in that size with possibility of taking notes. :). I wait to see how Scribe stack against RM2 and then make a purchase.
Love my ReMarkable but I'm one of those paper nuts that likes to scribble a lot

I use it as an "endless pile of paper" and don't think much about organizing my notes. It's very effective at emulating paper, and because it can do so little it's also very nice to keeping focus and not getting distracted

It's my go-to tool for jotting down ideas, or taking notes during meetings and it's always on my table

I had a ReMarkable 2 last year, but sent it back. For reading PDFs my iPad Pro 12.9 inch is way better, and for taking notes and scribbling paper is way better. I can also have 10 sheets of paper or more next to each other on my desk, try that with a ReMarkable. It's a beautiful device, but inferior to the alternatives, at least for me.
You might wanna try Paperlike: https://paperlike.com/products/paperlike-for-ipad It made a huge difference for me. My use case is similar to yours. I use it for drawing but also as an endless pile of paper with Concepts.
I have one :-) Never used it though, I just don't have a need for writing on my iPad. Writing on real paper with a nice pen is about as good as it gets for me.

I am always imagining how cool computer supported drawing or something like that might be, but so far there is no software for that which I like. When there is, I might finally use the paperlike!

How's the pen latency, esp. compared to iPads? I'm using an iPad Pro (2nd or 3rd gen) + Paperlike and it works lovely and even the 1st-gen pen is just so much better than anything else I've tried.
I can't compare to iPad, but the reMarkable 2 pen latency is very good. Not zero, but so tiny it isn't noticeable. It also has a paperlike feel, a subtle texture. This seems like a trivial detail until you use it. Now writing on a glassy-smooth surface feels cheap in comparison.
Agreed. As a notebook the R2 has replaced a disorganised and ever-growing stack of paper on my desk. I love it. The only way I use it is for sketching diagrams and noting my thoughts during meetings.
Ditto, my desk is much more tidier without a big stack on papers with random thoughts and ideas scribbled on them. Still a mess though…
Don’t bother and buy an iPad. I have the rM and it really lacks any useful feature that could a 1ghz cpu offer to paper.
Don’t bother and kill your eyes in the process.
Voodoo Science.
My tired eyes beg to differ.
Try reading an eBook with rm2. Or a PDF (latex generated best, like some scientific article). Then you know what eye hurt is.

Very faint, greyish text. In not so nicely lit rooms an absolute horrific reading sensation. Nothing like paper.

Myself and couple of friends have been considering it, but dropped due to aggressive and ridiculous "marketing" tactics.

Perhaps it's a fine device, but no thanks. Good luck with subscription for connection.

Settled with Huawei MatePad Paper and couldn't be happier.

Have you tried using a wireless keyboard with it?

I was sort of considering getting one and using emacs through tmux. To do light programming and writing

I feel the latency should be tolerable. Though I worry about how much the screen flickers/refreshes

I'm using a Moaan Mix 7 and the constant screen refresh makes anything that's not entirely static a bit or a pain to look at. (Even a small "loading" spinner on screen forces a screen refresh every 10 seconds)

No, I use it solely to read books and browse sites.

They seem to use dynamic screen updates which adjusts to content, not sure how it will work in your case.

I case youtube quite alright on it, however I may not call it pleasurable, if that helps.

yeah that does. sounds like it doesn't do a full screen black/white flicker. thanks!
I wish Remarkable would release an Apple Silicon (arm64) version of their desktop companion app.

I've got to keep an old Intel MacBook for these "legacy" apps, it's not ideal.

It works in Rosetta, but I can't install Rosetta on my main machine. I use it for dev work and the only way I've found to ensure that I don't have x64 code sneaking in is to have Rosetta not installed.