Ask HN: Work instead of tech?

58 points by needanewplan ↗ HN
Obviously a throwaway.

I've been doing tech for years (20+). I've been through the startup ringer. I've founded my own company (and exited, nothing real). I've dealt with all of it. It just feels like everything is moving bits now - and the bits sometimes have new fun names, the systems change, the language changes, but it's moving bits. I've had a meaningful, impactful career - I've mentored, given back, done charity work too. I have gratitude, thankfulness, health, and religion. But I'm done. Whether it's working on cool tech, or doing meaningful work like supporting freedom on country X.. I'm done.

I'm trying to figure out what else I can do with my life. What else is there that is middle-of-the-road salary-wise, like tech. I'm not looking for massive FAANG like salary replacement, stock, etc. But I am trying to figure out what else I can do that is in any way similar to the middle.

I think a lot of us think about this - I know that I have many conversations about it that others bring up. So I thought.. crowdsource? What does HN think?

79 comments

[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 182 ms ] thread
Depends on where you choose to live. From what I'm seeing, the various trades people are earning very good incomes, in the same ballpark as the majority of IT (non-FAANG) staff.
trades are brutal for your body and I wouldn't recommend picking one up in your late 30s.
Plumbing yes, but an electrician?
A day of pulling wire through conduit can be quite taxing.
This is a very good advice. There are huge drawbacks (mostly because of physical strain, and we are talking about a change in OP's 40-s, 50-s) but the mix of predictability, job security and unexpected things popping up is nice.

I would go that way if there was a trade with less physical constraints that electricians for instance (I never looked in details, there are probably many such jobs)

(comment deleted)
Maybe you are looking for new things to experience? Working part-time while traveling the world would keep you busy for the next 2-5 years.
Have you considered buying a motorcycle?
I can second this, I've met some lifelong friends through motorcycles + explored so much of the world.
I personally believe world would be slighlty better without motorcycles. Somehow most of them (or, at least, most of the ones people choose to buy) are much louder than cars, even though they have much smaller mass. Seems like the loudness is a design goal almost.
People are modifying their bikes to be loud. Stock motorcycles are fine.
I wholeheartedly disagree. There are certainly people involved with motorcycles that seek attention and try to be as anti-social as possible. But that is by no means representative of the overall motorcycle community. They are just the ones that makes the most noise (pun intended).

Motorcycles acts as therapy for a lot of people, myself included. Without them, my life would be a lot less enjoyable.

I think you are searching for some kind of meaning. Maybe instead of something big, think small. Often the most local small things can make a huge direct impact or even things that are more internalized, things that still make you giddy inside like a kid.
In the last couple of years, I've set up a local code club for kids, starting doing all the admin for my son's Scouts group, taken over running a monthly board games club, and started painting Warhammer figures. Work is still boring, but it matters much less.
Learn a musical instrument, join a band.
(comment deleted)
Maybe try 80000hours.org Otherwise let me know if you want to talk. I was in a similar spot just two years ago.
And what did you do?
I jumped head first learning everything I could about crypto and build my own business in this space. I think there is value after all the crazy hype of the last 2 years. But then, this is mostly where I cam from. Fortune 25 GM (Finance) -> Startup -> Startup.
When I feel this way, I contemplate getting an ATP and trying to become a pilot for the airlines. Glorified taxi driver, doing a well defined task day in day out. Work schedule is some weeks on, weeks off. So, a regular change of pace.
You can take a break and go traveling :)

And even work remotely if you end up liking it

I have switched industry before and you kind of start from 0.

What you are describing doesn't necessarily sound like an issue with the tech sector, but rather that you are a bit burnt out.

My suggestion: try to take some time off, either by not working or just working on some very unambitious projects that give you time to relax. Do this for at least 2-3 months. Sleep, eat, treat yourself well.

Then slowly start tinkering with whatever tickles your interest (only once you feel like it). This can be a a tech side project, playing the guitar or bartending.

This recipe has helped me re-discover my energy in the past.

It might lead you to something in tech or outside tech.

Just my 2 cents.

That's a great read, many people get burned out. Have spoken to a few people who left the industry to do something else, most of them came back a few never did. The grass isn't always greener, some people can easily work through a burnout and come through the other side, others simply need a few months off to re-ignite the flame. It can just be working in the wrong environment, switch to a smaller team maybe? A few friends of mine ditched the startup wheel and now work for an agency producing "standard" websites/cms and enjoy their life so much more.
I don't think it's burnout, I think it's boredom. OP can be perfectly rested and want to try something new, similar to how if you have pasta for dinner everyday you may eventually want to try something else.
Very much relate to this comment.

I burned out twice. Both times I took a break with the intention of starting a new career.

The first time I considered getting into music professionally only to find that my colleagues were not only substantially more educated and technically capable but also that they had to focus a lot of energy on teaching and traveling. I had enough savings that when I returned to contract work I could do it very much part-time and pursue music heavily with little profit motive.

The second time I burned out I tried to get into the mental health space only to find that the training was too intense and that the pay was not going to be great unless I went back to grad school, again, which I was not interested in. Again, I returned to working part-time.

Eventually I found a role where I could work 30 hours per week with full benefits and people who I like. Plenty of vacation time for touring and attending music intensives.

At least for me, the key to preventing burnout is not working full-time which gives me time to start and end my day putting energy into satisfying my interests and passions with no profit motive.

I don't know that I would call tech salaries "middle of the road". We're lucky enough that we're in an industry that leaves a lot of flexibility on the table, it's doable keeping a decent tech income and doing something more meaningful with your life as well. I don't know what's going to lighten you up so I won't give any specific advice, but for my part I'm eager to go back to school for something completely unrelated (that's also a professional dead end, but who cares).
Underwater welders make a lot. It's risky work, but you get to do pro level diving (the risky part) and welding metal at something like 3000 degrees...while under water.

Might also make you explore diving more which is a ...whole other world.

Good luck and take care.

According to the BLS[0], there's less than 3000 commercial divers in the US, which includes underwater welding. Further on with underwater welding, it's dangerous, painful work that has long term risks (such as vision damage).

There's also just "standard" welding as well, but its the same story - working more than 40 hours, constantly being burned by molten metal, weak pay/benefits, and both short and long term health risks that are simply not worth the compensation.

[0] - https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes499092.htm

I think you should step away from platforms like HN, live life (real life, offline) and find out what you enjoy. I don't think you'll find an answer through the thing you want to leave. Kinda like people trying to fix their smartphone addiction by installing an app on their smartphone. It may work for some, but it seems like an odd approach.

(Doing a bit of an assumption here that after 20 years of tech work you're not broke.)

I tried this but eventually I think about money in the bank not growing and it makes me sad. It’s just the sad reality.
How about e-commerce? It’s similar but you also need to learn the domain of your products. Which might (or might not) be a fun challenge.

Best of luck!

INFO: what are your hobbies? What do you like to do?

Otherwise I can tell you what I would like, but it might not sound interesting to you at all.

I never found something that made sense. It always worked out that I should reduce hours, work part time at a high salary, control my schedule, and have some hobbies.
Work is what you do for money… but you spend a lot of time doing it. If you don’t need a ton of cash.. Work in Academia. It’s kinda like a start up in that the teams are small and they’re isn’t a ton of support, but the pressure is less. There are interesting projects and collaborations. Pay is lower but not bad, they give good benefits and don’t crush you all the time. There’s politics but in software you can mostly ignore it.
Counterpoint - my dad is a software engineering professor, and while he does get summers off, when he's working he's working very long days. There's always pressure to get grades in, generate new research papers, deal with politics, and deal with students.

Academia is far from a low-pressure career.

Yeah, most of the academics I know are miserable. I'd still love to do a PhD sometime, but without feeling the need to turn it into an academic career.
I kinda meant jobs in academia that are not being an academic. I work as a programmer in a lab, so I'm isolated from the pressure the PIs and postdocs face.
There are a TON of industries out there that have "tech people" but aren't tech. And if you find the right smaller one, you can be the "tech guy" while working entirely in a non-tech industry.
I went the other way, started in the charity sector then moved into tech, well, tech roles in non-profits. Totally get the impulse, and also why "doing meaningful work like supporting freedom on country X" doesn't appeal.

What really helped in my transition was the fact that I was able to carry over part of what I'd left behind. In my case, it was that I'd worked for non-profits, so I was a more attractive hire than people who were technically much stronger. After a quick year on shit money putting together a little experience, I actually had a nice pay bump when the dust settled.

The best stuff would be where you could still use some of your skills, but in a way that doesn't feel like you've got a tech job. Being able to bosh out a bit of code where needed makes you a wizard in a lot of areas.

Just spitballin', but someone with the ability to hack together scripts and quickly get their head around software can do wonders with architecture, "classical" engineering, VFX/3D, finance/accountancy. It wouldn't be for me, but if you've got decent cash together, most of the rich people I know get into some sort of investing or other.

I guess in the other direction. If I ever felt I needed to give my brain a serious break, I'd get back into kitchens. They're great places to work: fast, fun and completely different. I'd honestly struggle to keep up, but it'd keep me busy whilst I regroup.

Plumbing.

Plumbers make a killing. You're also out and seeing different places, different locations, and clients generally treat you with respect. It's also physical work but not demanding, so should help with your health so long as the microbes don't get to you.

Do something outside of work. I similarly have begun to feel that all the current work in tech is just solving the same problems over and over again.

But, while I soldier on and do good work to earn that paycheck during the day, I've also started deepening my outside-of-work activities. That gives my brain new and more interesting things to think about and alleviates the "but what is it FOR" feeling.

Some advice,

What are you non-tech passionate about?

Would contributing tech solutions to that subject and people working in that passion area help?

That is one of the questions you should be exploring.

Investing can be fun. Pick some promising companies and get to know them inside and out. It's fun because you essentially make money by better understanding the present and predicting the future than others. Risky though (as we're seeing now), and you need some capital.
Electrician or plumber? You get to logically solve problems but in the physical realm. And due to demand you should be paid well.

Another one. Old school selling in real life - like at a market stall or stall at a convention. Selling niche items. Maybe even something you make or 3d print yourself.

I find home improvement projects really fun. I have a desire to do things with my hands that software devdlopment just doesn't scratch that itch for me.
If you can, try to take an entire year off. Spend this year exploring. Do things you would never do, push your edges, take excellent care of yourself. It's a big world and you have a lot of value to contribute it many many different places.