The article was unhelpful. Is Tesla's stock decline really attributable to Musk's Twitter shenanigans? That seems dubious, but I am not a professional investor, so what do I know.
I mean, I personally would find it hilarious if true, but can he just take money from Tesla and dump it into Twitter without running afoul of financial regulations? Wouldn't that just be, like, stealing? I wish the article had provided some, ya know, facts and context.
That's above-board. Making Tesla engineers moonlight (or daylight) on Twitter code is not. He's gotten fined for pulling similar shenanigans with Tesla&SpaceX.
I thought normally CEOs have to plan pretty far ahead to dump stocks so there's no suspicion of insider trading. When he first unloaded to buy Twitter a lot of people were speculating it was an excuse to unload TSLA ahead of bad news like finally facing consequences for FSD.
You'd think if CEOs/founders are careful about announcing sales ahead of time, selling suddenly and after previously tweeting he was done selling would have consequences. In the end I think regulators in automobile and financial industries rely a lot on self regulation and don't know what to do when someone doesn't even go through the motions
> The article was unhelpful. Is Tesla's stock decline really attributable to Musk's Twitter shenanigans?
Accurate attribution of stock movements is difficult, and any “this one thing fully explains this movement” is probably wrong, but it seems plausible that news of Tesla engineers being pulled to review Twitter code plus Elon’s attention being visibly heavily on Twitter contributes somewhat to the negative pressure on Tesla.
OTOH, “the Fed actively slamming the brakes on the economy makes people less confidence in the intermediate-term performance of luxury car brands” could be a factor, as could lots of other things.
Yeah, it seems like he's always distracted with one outlandish project or another, but maybe since he's imploding Twitter in such a dramatic, public fashion it's finally waking investors up to that fact.
VW has such a better overall economic model than any US car manufacturer. Workers are unionized at VW and have some representation on the board, so it's a shared power situation between employees and shareholders. Granted this hasn't kept VW from making really stupid decisions (see VW diesel emissions scandal), but at least they've shifted to prioritizing EV production (also made in the USA):
Government Ownership and subsidies play a factor too - ~12% of equity and 20% of voting shares is owned by the State of Lower Saxony [0][1]. This ownership by a state with 10% of Bundestag has helped VW leverage Germany’s powerful status within the EU [2] and the same dual structure mentioned above did have an effect in enabling Dieselgate [3]
Astroturfing is catching up with Musk. He has been been lying for years about his investments. From self-drive to Dogecoin there is more vaporware than reality at this point. The Hyperloop was just evil.
He sold shares based on his personality, as he goes full crazy his image suffers and so does his shares.
The guy is super-rich so it is difficult to be sad for him. But this is going to affect people that believed in him and invested a lot of money.
I invite you to the community of dedicated “educators” about scam artisanship of Elon Musk at r/enoughmushspam and post this same comment there. I would honestly want to see the discussion explode.
People on r/enoughmushspam believe that Musk personally involved in overthrowing the government of Boliva, that his dad is diamond billionaire who used slave labor and literally every other delusional conspiracy that goes threw Twitter.
Maybe those people shouldn't be taken at face value when they say things. They will just believe ever rumor and misinterpretation of everything.
I don't think Hyperloop is technically a good idea, but peoples outrage and misinterpretation of what happened (mostly based on bad media reporting) at the time rather then actually listening to what Musk was saying is just a perfect example of fake news and then now this fake news is basically except as reality by most people.
There are even people who believe that Hyperloop is responsible for California HSR not being successful. That is beyond delusional.
Musk father did an investment in a emerald mine in Zambia, not in Apartheid South Africa and not with Slave labor. And they certainty were not billionaires from it.
The only source for this is one interview with Musk father, there is no independent verification of any of this.
Musk family was wealthy because his father was an successful engineer not because they were Apartheid slave labor blood emerald mine kings.
But that sound a lot less interesting.
> I will just leave this here
This is called moving the goal post and is done by people who know they are wrong about their original claims so they just move on to talk about something else.
Ah do you have sources for your claims? I can finds dozens of sources for my claims.
> This is called moving the goal post and is done by people who know they are wrong about their original claims so they just move on to talk about something else.
You say you have source, but don't provide them. Please provide them, you clearly have them at hand.
Anybody that doesn't support the claim 'X is evil' is apparently a fanboy. Well argued, congratulations. I have already said that I don't actually think Hyperloop is a good idea, but calling it 'evil' is just dumb.
I provided the link to the blue paper. This is the only ever publicly released document about Hyperloop. I can't disprove that there is not a something else, that's impossible.
If you want to make claims, please provide me with the sources. If it was offered to the government to buy, it should be available in public sources. If they received government subsidies then that should be public. Is there a product announcement page? Was their a sales page, or anything like that. That should be on archive.com can you give me a link?
i jumped out of TSLA earlier this year because i was tired of the volatility cause by nothing more than public comments elon would make. it was very frustrating.
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[ 5.0 ms ] story [ 70.0 ms ] threadThe sentiment shift I've observed is that Musk is using Tesla kind of like a piggy bank/engineering entourage
To my totally uneducated self this makes sense
I follow this companies, specially pretty closely. Please provide a source.
Usually how it works that one company pays the other a service fee for the time used. This is also used by the Boring company.
You'd think if CEOs/founders are careful about announcing sales ahead of time, selling suddenly and after previously tweeting he was done selling would have consequences. In the end I think regulators in automobile and financial industries rely a lot on self regulation and don't know what to do when someone doesn't even go through the motions
Accurate attribution of stock movements is difficult, and any “this one thing fully explains this movement” is probably wrong, but it seems plausible that news of Tesla engineers being pulled to review Twitter code plus Elon’s attention being visibly heavily on Twitter contributes somewhat to the negative pressure on Tesla.
OTOH, “the Fed actively slamming the brakes on the economy makes people less confidence in the intermediate-term performance of luxury car brands” could be a factor, as could lots of other things.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenry/2022/10/21/vw-starts-b...
I think this puts VW in the slot of primary competitor for Tesla's market, should be interesting to see what happens.
[0] - https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/InvestorRelations/shares/sha...
[1] - https://www.wardsauto.com/lower-saxony-buys-vw-shares-keep-2...
[2] - https://www.reuters.com/article/volkswagen-emissions-germany...
[3] - https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...
He sold shares based on his personality, as he goes full crazy his image suffers and so does his shares.
The guy is super-rich so it is difficult to be sad for him. But this is going to affect people that believed in him and invested a lot of money.
> The Hyperloop was just evil.
How is it evil, here a few facts:
- He said he had an idea for transit system
- He released this pdf: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_images/hyperl...
- He said I don't have time for this, so I'm not gone work on it. Anybody that want's is free to work on it.
- Hosted a student competition for vacuum sleds.
End of story.
It didn't get any public investment at all. Its literally just somebody who released pdf with some ideas.
By what measure is it 'evil'?
Maybe those people shouldn't be taken at face value when they say things. They will just believe ever rumor and misinterpretation of everything.
I don't think Hyperloop is technically a good idea, but peoples outrage and misinterpretation of what happened (mostly based on bad media reporting) at the time rather then actually listening to what Musk was saying is just a perfect example of fake news and then now this fake news is basically except as reality by most people.
There are even people who believe that Hyperloop is responsible for California HSR not being successful. That is beyond delusional.
I will just leave this here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Tesla,_Inc. Which is kinda a comprehensive list of scams. I’m afraid I have to stop here.
The only source for this is one interview with Musk father, there is no independent verification of any of this.
Musk family was wealthy because his father was an successful engineer not because they were Apartheid slave labor blood emerald mine kings.
But that sound a lot less interesting.
> I will just leave this here
This is called moving the goal post and is done by people who know they are wrong about their original claims so they just move on to talk about something else.
> This is called moving the goal post and is done by people who know they are wrong about their original claims so they just move on to talk about something else.
Or people just don’t want to argue with fan boys.
Anybody that doesn't support the claim 'X is evil' is apparently a fanboy. Well argued, congratulations. I have already said that I don't actually think Hyperloop is a good idea, but calling it 'evil' is just dumb.
I provided the link to the blue paper. This is the only ever publicly released document about Hyperloop. I can't disprove that there is not a something else, that's impossible.
If you want to make claims, please provide me with the sources. If it was offered to the government to buy, it should be available in public sources. If they received government subsidies then that should be public. Is there a product announcement page? Was their a sales page, or anything like that. That should be on archive.com can you give me a link?