Seems like an AI could perform this sort of analysis to geolocate images with far fewer distinct features and no reliance on any prior knowledge, since it would have near omniscient knowledge of all satellite imagery. For example, this seemingly unidentifiable shot of Gwern’s window view [0] contains a nondescript tree next to a body of water. Nigh impossible for a human without any prior knowledge of Gwern’s general location to identify, but potentially trivial for an AI, since it could automatically scour all satellite imagery for trees and shrubbery of similar shape next to a body of water and a house with a three-sash bay window, a task utterly infeasible to do manually.
I don't work in AI but would this really be as easy as you say. Plants might not seem to change much in the time you are observing them but they can change significantly throughout the season and are constantly "reshaped" by blowing winds and the like.
That was a far more impressive bit of coordination and analysis; this really boiled down to looking through a stupid number of photos for the three-pronged staircase
So what is the point of all this? If done by Ukrainians, what military objective does is accomplish?
Are we supposed to track down the people responsible for the Tomahawk cruise missile program as well? I mean, this piece does not make any sense to me. There is a difference between the people that make weapons and those that use them.
It’s the people who program the missiles. People who knowingly attack power infrastructure in a cold country (my parents spent 12 hours without the power today). People who make mistakes that make missiles struck residential buildings. Investigators said he contacted them and they were completely nonchalant about the result of their work. He used the term “banality of evil”.
I find it hard to blame the Russians doing this especially much. At least I’d have to blame the developers of the hellfire missile and reaper drone just as much.
It's not a matter of blame. In this situation, everyone contributing to the war effort is a target. Israeli covert operations have repeatedly conducted targeted killings against key civilian employees in the Iranian defense industry. Nothing personal, just degrading an adversary's capabilities.
Are you Russian yourself? "Especially much" seems like literal translation from Russian ("особо много"). This would explain intentional stupidity.
Developers of the weapons may say they do not want to hit civilian targets. These people know full well what they are doing. They are pure inexcusable evil.
I’m Dutch. Not sure if there’s any overlap in the language, but I think it’s a term I only use in English.
You have to be at least some level of patriotic to work on weapons systems, so it’s more likely they’ll call it regrettable that it’s sometimes necessary to use against civilians and call it a day.
The reason I say I don’t blame them in particular is because I can see the appeal of working on things that blow shit up. Even better if you believe they’re your enemies (would I have issues making weapons that drive the Russians out of Ukraine?).
It’s because I have faith in my government. And as ridiculous and caused by propaganda as it may be, that is likely the same for the Russians.
From my perspective they’re evil, but I doubt they see themselves that way.
If you work on anything even distantly military related, it's a risk you take as part of the job. If your country loses any war/power struggle, the new incoming government will punish you for being involved in the military of the old government fighting against the incomers.
I mean this is not the context to have this discussion, but yes, if another country operated like the US does, we would call many of it's actions "war crimes" and discussing the relative complicity of the "civilians" that make the missiles.
In a context of war crimes trial, it made all the sense.
If a missile is programmed to fall in a maternity full of pregnant women, they are necessary accomplices of a massive assassination. They could be lied about it the first couple of times. After nine full months of terrorism, "we didn't knew the consequences of our actions" is not reasonable
Exactly. The people remote controlling drones into civilians in Ukraine should be held accountable, just like the people that killed civilians with hellfire missiles in Afghanistan should be held accountable.
As a german I'd also like to see the german politicians and officials that enabled these operations from german territory persecuted.
I'd also generalize that "people" remotely controlling armies should be held accountable.
Since you're a german: I was reading hard to comeby chronicles and memoirs from before WW2 and there was this fact: russians and germans were close friends, people from military missions were calling each other brothers. This was frowned upon by the government... So, I'm saying, humans are generally peaceful and friendly, but are being manipulated. :(
> The people remote controlling drones into civilians in Ukraine should be held accountable, just like the people that killed civilians with hellfire missiles in Afghanistan should be held accountable
Typical civilian deaths in Afghanistan would be e.g. families living with high ranking enemy combatants, totally incomparable with Russian forces bombing shopping malls in Ukraine.
At least the US cares enough to have a man in the loop when killing with their drones. Chair force killers actually have to watch and pull the trigger, not like the Russian missile programmers remotely destroying city block sized targets.
> Typical civilian deaths in Afghanistan would be e.g. families living with high ranking enemy combatants, totally incomparable with Russian forces bombing shopping malls in Ukraine.
Except that that that's not true. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]
Let's be clear, what's happening in Ukraine is abhorrent,
but let's also not pretend that the west cares a lot less and even actively participates in atrocities when the victims are not as white.
Those weren't build from the goodness of somebodies heart, but because the CIA realised that they can't win a war against combatants which they themselves created a constant supply of by blowing up their loved ones.
Also, nobody ever argued that they are exactly the same, but both should be dragged in front of the Hague nevertheless. It matters little to the dead, injured, and loved ones, wether it happened to terrorise (as Russia does in Ukraine, or the US did in latin America and Iran) or because of apathy towards dehumanised people (as with the USA, UK, Germany, e.t.c. in Iraq and Afghanistan).
> Those weren't build from the goodness of somebodies heart, but because the CIA realised that they can't win a war against combatants which they themselves created a constant supply of by blowing up their loved ones.
Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still doing the right thing, anything that reduces collateral damage is good.
>Typical civilian deaths in Afghanistan would be e.g. families living with high ranking enemy combatants, totally incomparable with Russian forces bombing shopping malls in Ukraine.
This is propaganda, they often kill indiscriminately, and often kill based on extremely flimsy intel. They later try to explain it with 'there was an enemy combatant there', but provide no evidence of that. It's the same crap the Israelis do.
The US has bombed multiple wedding parties, where there were no enemy combatants anywhere nearby. They killed 30 civillians in one instance, in an area which had been abandoned by enemy forces for months!
The people who make missiles are complicit, and are partially responsible for the deaths that result from them. And yes, that raises awkward questions about the military industrial complex, and about other countries and people who are also doing it.
But it's basic cause and effect, some people built a missile, some people ordered its use, some people launched it at the target. All of them bear some portion of the responsibility for the end result, any other conclusion is not entirely honest.
There are international laws regulating war, and the fact is that Russia toke great pleasure into violating each single one of them. Systematically. Deliberately. All while telling lies and jokes to inflict the greatest pain possible to the population. It is an spectacle absolutely hideous.
And now they wonder why aren't attracting any international sympathy lately
I think the parent commenter is implying that there's an even bigger community willing to do it for $1000. It is unclear whether the bounty would drive away the original community though.
I don't think the 1000 bounty would be feasible nor help much. Still need to verify, etc. And most people capable of doing it are already doing it for free.
> By searching through geotagged photos of the street on the Russian social network VK they came across a high-resolution photograph taken by a professional roofer while he was on top of the north wall of the facility
Online women have to deal with this sort of crap routinely.
I know a sex worker who was very careful about her online identity. She posted several years ago some completely innocuous thing, like “looks like I’m going to need a new pair of boots.”
From this one tweet, her stalkers were able to cross-reference which city she lived in by looking up historical weather reports for areas that recently had snowfall. They knew that she also was a professor, so they went down the list of female professors in nearby universities until they found a match.
Well, one hidden implication behind your comment could be that women who work sensitive jobs shouldn't reveal their face or their profession online, or else they deserve to be unmasked. When framed that way, maybe you can see why I disagree.
I'm reminded of _why the lucky stiff, who was a legendary ruby programmer from 2004ish. As far as I know, he didn't do sex work, but he showed his face at conferences all the time. He was a very private fellow - he would ask people to drop him off at a cafe or a park after outings. When some of his stalkers attempted to unmask him, he left the ruby community (I think for that and other reasons).
> The man said he had identified a train station reflected in the singer's eyes in a selfie she posted online. The 26-year-old then waited at the station until he saw his victim and followed her to her home, police said.
> He also said he had studied videos the woman shot in her apartment, looking at details such as the placement of curtains and the direction of natural light coming through the window to try to determine exactly which floor she lived on, reports said.
There was also that thing with Shia Labeouf's "he will not divide us" campaign (?), where at one point 4chan folk tracked down the physical location based on a webcam view pointed skywards at a flagpole, geolocating it based on the transit times and flight paths of aircraft passing in view (determining the compass direction from the sun setting and rising, I think there was also something about figuring out the altitude from contrail formation?) and comparing it to one of those flightradar type sites.
Boring. They already knew the geolocation, so they were merely confirming the geolocation rather than geolocating a photo taken in an unknown location.
59 comments
[ 1.2 ms ] story [ 159 ms ] thread[0] https://www.gwern.net/Links#hardware
Train an AI to identify and measure features in satellite imagery (water bodies, trees, lawns, buildings, etc.)
Allow a user to search for areas of size x m^2, that have water bodies of at least y m^2, forested area of at least z m^2, etc.
Computers keep generating a cat gravity field around, it seems. Who is Gwern? (or if you prefer: Why are we peeping at their nice workplace?)
One thing they mention is getting approx time from shadows when you know the location.
That photo has a blurry date/time in it. Which lets you use shadows to find approx latitude I think.
Are we supposed to track down the people responsible for the Tomahawk cruise missile program as well? I mean, this piece does not make any sense to me. There is a difference between the people that make weapons and those that use them.
I mean… yes?!
Developers of the weapons may say they do not want to hit civilian targets. These people know full well what they are doing. They are pure inexcusable evil.
You have to be at least some level of patriotic to work on weapons systems, so it’s more likely they’ll call it regrettable that it’s sometimes necessary to use against civilians and call it a day.
The reason I say I don’t blame them in particular is because I can see the appeal of working on things that blow shit up. Even better if you believe they’re your enemies (would I have issues making weapons that drive the Russians out of Ukraine?).
It’s because I have faith in my government. And as ridiculous and caused by propaganda as it may be, that is likely the same for the Russians.
From my perspective they’re evil, but I doubt they see themselves that way.
If a missile is programmed to fall in a maternity full of pregnant women, they are necessary accomplices of a massive assassination. They could be lied about it the first couple of times. After nine full months of terrorism, "we didn't knew the consequences of our actions" is not reasonable
Most of the missile strikes have no military value, as Russia seems to withdraw from parts of Ukraine.
Perhaps showing the group responsible would make them think about what they are doing besides inputting coordinates.
Since you're a german: I was reading hard to comeby chronicles and memoirs from before WW2 and there was this fact: russians and germans were close friends, people from military missions were calling each other brothers. This was frowned upon by the government... So, I'm saying, humans are generally peaceful and friendly, but are being manipulated. :(
Typical civilian deaths in Afghanistan would be e.g. families living with high ranking enemy combatants, totally incomparable with Russian forces bombing shopping malls in Ukraine.
At least the US cares enough to have a man in the loop when killing with their drones. Chair force killers actually have to watch and pull the trigger, not like the Russian missile programmers remotely destroying city block sized targets.
Except that that that's not true. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]
Let's be clear, what's happening in Ukraine is abhorrent, but let's also not pretend that the west cares a lot less and even actively participates in atrocities when the victims are not as white.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war...
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstri...
2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haska_Meyna_wedding_party_airs...
3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wech_Baghtu_wedding_party_airs...
4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruzgan_helicopter_attack
5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_raid_on_Narang
6: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azizabad_airstrike
7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granai_airstrike
8: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstri...
https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/how-tos/2021/08/26/the-...
The Russians target shopping centres with weapons designed to take out American aircraft carriers.
They aren’t really the same.
Also, nobody ever argued that they are exactly the same, but both should be dragged in front of the Hague nevertheless. It matters little to the dead, injured, and loved ones, wether it happened to terrorise (as Russia does in Ukraine, or the US did in latin America and Iran) or because of apathy towards dehumanised people (as with the USA, UK, Germany, e.t.c. in Iraq and Afghanistan).
Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still doing the right thing, anything that reduces collateral damage is good.
This is propaganda, they often kill indiscriminately, and often kill based on extremely flimsy intel. They later try to explain it with 'there was an enemy combatant there', but provide no evidence of that. It's the same crap the Israelis do.
The US has bombed multiple wedding parties, where there were no enemy combatants anywhere nearby. They killed 30 civillians in one instance, in an area which had been abandoned by enemy forces for months!
But it's basic cause and effect, some people built a missile, some people ordered its use, some people launched it at the target. All of them bear some portion of the responsibility for the end result, any other conclusion is not entirely honest.
There are international laws regulating war, and the fact is that Russia toke great pleasure into violating each single one of them. Systematically. Deliberately. All while telling lies and jokes to inflict the greatest pain possible to the population. It is an spectacle absolutely hideous.
And now they wonder why aren't attracting any international sympathy lately
RIP Russian professional roofer
I know a sex worker who was very careful about her online identity. She posted several years ago some completely innocuous thing, like “looks like I’m going to need a new pair of boots.”
From this one tweet, her stalkers were able to cross-reference which city she lived in by looking up historical weather reports for areas that recently had snowfall. They knew that she also was a professor, so they went down the list of female professors in nearby universities until they found a match.
I'm reminded of _why the lucky stiff, who was a legendary ruby programmer from 2004ish. As far as I know, he didn't do sex work, but he showed his face at conferences all the time. He was a very private fellow - he would ask people to drop him off at a cafe or a park after outings. When some of his stalkers attempted to unmask him, he left the ruby community (I think for that and other reasons).
> The man said he had identified a train station reflected in the singer's eyes in a selfie she posted online. The 26-year-old then waited at the station until he saw his victim and followed her to her home, police said.
> He also said he had studied videos the woman shot in her apartment, looking at details such as the placement of curtains and the direction of natural light coming through the window to try to determine exactly which floor she lived on, reports said.
There was also that thing with Shia Labeouf's "he will not divide us" campaign (?), where at one point 4chan folk tracked down the physical location based on a webcam view pointed skywards at a flagpole, geolocating it based on the transit times and flight paths of aircraft passing in view (determining the compass direction from the sun setting and rising, I think there was also something about figuring out the altitude from contrail formation?) and comparing it to one of those flightradar type sites.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33321411