All these attempts to discredit musk come off as so contrived, on Reddit someone shared a screenshot of him saying he’d be interested to know what the world will like in 88 million years… (apparently 88 is a nazi dog whistle?).
Only he was responding to a tweet about how Madagascar had broken off from the mainland 88 million years ago, so nothing nefarious, but of course the thread was full of teeth gnashing.
A mod eventually sticked a comment saying “we don’t know musk’s intention, if he picked this tweet to reply to or if it’s unintentional, but there is more context”.
This is more of that. Vindman isn’t a classically Jewish name, and I (a Jew) had no idea he was Jewish, I doubt most people did, he doesn’t exactly dress religiously or make it a large part of his public identity.
You’re deflecting, the topic is musk is anti-semetic as soon as that thread becomes difficult to defend you deflected to the weakest argument of “but he attacked someone who used to work in the gov and he depends of gov contracts”
That argument does not make any real sense, because that sounds like a problem for him not some sort of ironic jab, especially considering we’ve seen he doesn’t care that much about upsetting said supposed puppet masters. (And with the latest big US climate change bill- the one unironically called “lowering inflation” -we’ve seen the government try to somewhat cut him out of the pie… and he’s doing just fine.)
Not white knighting, as a Jew I find it alarming when false accusations are made of antisemitism because it reduces the sting of the claim when it’s real. But again. Fantastic deflection.
How is it possible to interpret any of this stuff as other than attempted cover or prep for the invasion, after it's happened?
In order to see anything scandalous on the part of Democrats, Ukraine, etc. some kind of theory (that makes sense to Americans) of how they caused the invasion seems to me to be necessary.
Right up until Russia invaded, all this stuff was just floating around with no explanation, but then it all fell into place. More than a decade of political nonsense now looks like it had one purpose, especially the whole "Hillary the warmonger" line.
If you are Russian or sympathetic, feel free to elaborate on how everything fits together from your perspective.
Sure, lots of people could be corrupt, but one assumes they were corrupted deliberately in service of a singular goal. There's no time-warping back to undo what has happened.
Propaganda can be really masterful, but eventually one has to perform the action that is the point of the whole operation, and then it all falls apart.
An enormous amount of deceptive groundwork was laid for the invasion of France in D-Day, but eventually it happened and then people reacted no matter how well they were diverted.
I have to admit your comment doesn't really make much sense to me. You seem to dismiss the corruption unless there is some how some grand narrative (some might say "conspiracy"?) that ties it all together and explains why Russia invaded Ukraine? I don't really think that's necessary. Biden's corrupt because he's corrupt. He wants money, for himself and his family. Not sure why that explanation sufficed to bash Trump for years but not for Biden. (Oh, I guess Biden was a "dedicated public servant" in the Senate for 40 years. LOL.)
Anyway, if you really want the big narrative it's there. I suggest you watch Robert Mearsheimer's talks. He's one of the most highly respected scholars in international relations and he has explained pretty well how a lot of western neoliberal fuckery in Ukraine led to the recent activity. One obvious piece is the broad expansion of NATO into eastern Europe despite US promised to the contrary in the aftermath of USSR collapse. Perhaps less credible but relevant are allegations of US State / CIA involvement in Orange Revolution and Euromaidan. Biden et al. perhaps didn't care for the strategic issues beyond wanting to ensure a sufficiently friendly / pliable government to continue their corrupt schemes.
(PS: despite username I am not Russian, that is not the source of my interest / bias in these matters.)
>You seem to dismiss the corruption unless there is some how some grand narrative (some might say "conspiracy"?) that ties it all together and explains why Russia invaded Ukraine?
I prefer to call it a "counter-narrative".
Prior to the invasion, a lot of loosely or unrelated bits could be assembled spontaneously by conspiracy-minded people who disliked the US government, NATO, etc.
Average people in the US DGAF about Ukraine, and didn't know what was going on with the impeachment and the allegations about Biden.
But the invasion provided a unifying element to make it all make sense - as part of a Russian plan.
So this sort of thing:
"he has explained pretty well how a lot of western neoliberal fuckery in Ukraine led to the recent activity"
seems to not be up to providing a good counter-narrative any more. It's weak because the "glue" holding the structure together has dissolved.
If there are professionals involved in the campaign against "western neoliberals", I'm curious what they are thinking or whether they are just going through the motions.
One more problem, besides not having a unified story, is not having a unified opponent. There is no strongman like Putin on the other side to target.
Oh please. Where do you get the information and knowledge to which to apply your own brain? From listening to people who know what they are talking about. I never said to believe him just because he's respected.
Vindman is of Ukrainian descent and was a star witness against the former President in his impeachment for meddling in Ukraine prior to the invasion.
So, sure, that is probably the primary reason Musk dislikes or affects to dislike him now, not his being Jewish.
But that doesn't in any way indicate he can't or isn't making antisemitic comments or Nazi references.
You may have forgotten he's not officially affiliated with the leader of Russia.
So he doesn't have any need to be consistent with the party line that everybody they don't like is a Nazi and the Nazis were the biggest criminals in history.
This is a very confusing reply, “musk probably isn’t a nazi but we can’t rule out that he hates them either” please correct me if I’m misinterpreting your comment. You don’t appear to be responding to anything I’m saying.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 60.3 ms ] threadOnly he was responding to a tweet about how Madagascar had broken off from the mainland 88 million years ago, so nothing nefarious, but of course the thread was full of teeth gnashing.
A mod eventually sticked a comment saying “we don’t know musk’s intention, if he picked this tweet to reply to or if it’s unintentional, but there is more context”.
This is more of that. Vindman isn’t a classically Jewish name, and I (a Jew) had no idea he was Jewish, I doubt most people did, he doesn’t exactly dress religiously or make it a large part of his public identity.
My point is Musk is in a position to be demanded of by government agents.
That argument does not make any real sense, because that sounds like a problem for him not some sort of ironic jab, especially considering we’ve seen he doesn’t care that much about upsetting said supposed puppet masters. (And with the latest big US climate change bill- the one unironically called “lowering inflation” -we’ve seen the government try to somewhat cut him out of the pie… and he’s doing just fine.)
In order to see anything scandalous on the part of Democrats, Ukraine, etc. some kind of theory (that makes sense to Americans) of how they caused the invasion seems to me to be necessary.
Right up until Russia invaded, all this stuff was just floating around with no explanation, but then it all fell into place. More than a decade of political nonsense now looks like it had one purpose, especially the whole "Hillary the warmonger" line.
If you are Russian or sympathetic, feel free to elaborate on how everything fits together from your perspective.
Sure, lots of people could be corrupt, but one assumes they were corrupted deliberately in service of a singular goal. There's no time-warping back to undo what has happened.
Propaganda can be really masterful, but eventually one has to perform the action that is the point of the whole operation, and then it all falls apart.
An enormous amount of deceptive groundwork was laid for the invasion of France in D-Day, but eventually it happened and then people reacted no matter how well they were diverted.
Anyway, if you really want the big narrative it's there. I suggest you watch Robert Mearsheimer's talks. He's one of the most highly respected scholars in international relations and he has explained pretty well how a lot of western neoliberal fuckery in Ukraine led to the recent activity. One obvious piece is the broad expansion of NATO into eastern Europe despite US promised to the contrary in the aftermath of USSR collapse. Perhaps less credible but relevant are allegations of US State / CIA involvement in Orange Revolution and Euromaidan. Biden et al. perhaps didn't care for the strategic issues beyond wanting to ensure a sufficiently friendly / pliable government to continue their corrupt schemes.
(PS: despite username I am not Russian, that is not the source of my interest / bias in these matters.)
I prefer to call it a "counter-narrative".
Prior to the invasion, a lot of loosely or unrelated bits could be assembled spontaneously by conspiracy-minded people who disliked the US government, NATO, etc.
Average people in the US DGAF about Ukraine, and didn't know what was going on with the impeachment and the allegations about Biden.
But the invasion provided a unifying element to make it all make sense - as part of a Russian plan.
So this sort of thing:
"he has explained pretty well how a lot of western neoliberal fuckery in Ukraine led to the recent activity"
seems to not be up to providing a good counter-narrative any more. It's weak because the "glue" holding the structure together has dissolved.
If there are professionals involved in the campaign against "western neoliberals", I'm curious what they are thinking or whether they are just going through the motions.
One more problem, besides not having a unified story, is not having a unified opponent. There is no strongman like Putin on the other side to target.
So, sure, that is probably the primary reason Musk dislikes or affects to dislike him now, not his being Jewish.
But that doesn't in any way indicate he can't or isn't making antisemitic comments or Nazi references.
You may have forgotten he's not officially affiliated with the leader of Russia.
So he doesn't have any need to be consistent with the party line that everybody they don't like is a Nazi and the Nazis were the biggest criminals in history.