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Ask HN: Laid off employees, did the company ask you to return equipment?

40 points by sagarkamat ↗ HN
Lately I've been fascinated by the reverse supply chain of corporate IT equipment. I've been wondering how different companies have been handling differently the question of whether to make laid off employees return their Laptop, Monitor, Furniture etc or not. How did your company handle it?

86 comments

[ 2.3 ms ] story [ 154 ms ] thread
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Beaver117
No but they lock it down via MDM so it's basically junk now.
ganoushoreilly
If it's an Apple device there are a myriad of methods to get around the MDM locks, tons are posted on github.

Though Mx series processors can be much more difficult and vary with results.

Beaver117
Really? I searched a little but it didn't seem to be possible.
sagarkamat
Ugh, That's the worst of both worlds, neither the company recovers the device nor does it let you use it. Why not just remote wipe it instead?
carrja99
Typically companies use MDM to do a remote wipe and reset.
Scoundreller
Does the reset remove the MDM? Or is it persistent?
ArnoVW
MacOS machines phone home to Apple when installing. If the machine is known to belong to the company, it can then send it off to an MDM server from a third party, who can install stuff.

But Apple does not know for all machines who owns them. Typically, you have to create an Apple Business Management account. And buy from Apple directly or via select resellers. The idea being that you can send it to staff directly without installing it.

You can attach a computer to your ABM account manually, but it requires reinstall and physical access. It involves faffing around with an iPhone that has Apple Configurator installed.

Also, if the machine has no internet when it is booted during install, it will skip the phoning home, and you can 'circumvent' the MDM

phendrenad2
Yes, always. They get nervous when you don't ship your overpriced macbook pro back within a few weeks (they need to give them to the interns they're replacing you with).
ulfw
Oh yes. Had to return the pretty crappy old Macbook to China.
carrja99
No. In fact, they informed us we were being gifted out MacBooks to help with our jobsearch.
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gaws
How do you remove all company monitoring from the device? Does IT relinquish root access?
hrrsn
Not laid off, but my employer just requests the laptop back, which is either recycled or reimaged for the next user. Mobile phone is all yours - no MDM.
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zzzbra
nope. laid of twice this year I now have two brand new MBP
aliqot
I'm sorry to hear about that. Hopefully you can use them to your advantage in creating something we can use and pay for to help you get by. Keep your head up, I believe in you. It's going to be no time at all before you will be able to laugh at this.
perryizgr8
Now I also want to get laid off lol :)
Maxamillion96
Yes. forgot the laptop charger so i had to run back for it
theWreckluse
I had to return the MacBook charger’s detachable port plug, which I could not even remember using it for the last time.
tablespoon
I haven't been laid off, but as far as I can tell, my company does zero tracking of anything besides the laptop itself. I'm sure they're require it to be returned, but it's got MDM stuff all over it, so I'm not sure there's any reason to keep it.
the_gipsy
Just format it clean.
tsujamin
Most MDM persists a wipe unless they’re de-enrolled by serial or other unique identifier (e.g. computrace, Windows Autopilot although it’s a bit weird, apple too I think)

Computrace/absolute is a literal rootkit

the_gipsy
Well maybe it's time to switch to a OS that does what the user wants.
DonHopkins
Last time I did that, I upgraded my Apple ][ to DOS 3.3.
emodendroket
Yeah I'm sure employers are clamoring to switch to an OS that lets their employees do whatever they want with their machines.
the_gipsy
You can put whatever OS you want on the machine once it's yours.
tablespoon
> Well maybe it's time to switch to a OS that does what the user wants.

It does do what the user wants. Your employer owns your work PC and is the ultimate user, not you.

whoIsYou
Got to keep my monitor and macbook, with more than enough severance to find a new job. Not a bad deal overall.
Scoundreller
I had an employer buy our phones and they were then ours. As person property, they couldn't be FOIA'd.

If the employer is at risk of getting sued, "giving them away" may be a very good consideration.

emodendroket
Nuking them accomplishes the same thing, doesn't it?
isleyaardvark
IANAL but neither of these sound like sound legal strategies, or good for the employee.
emodendroket
"We delete all data from employee machines at termination as a matter of policy" seems analogous to other data retention policies with similar purposes.
Tade0
As a contractor I might get to keep a mouse or set of headphones sometimes, but that's it.

Furniture is interesting because in the one instance I know of the company just wrote it off as a loss - apparently that's fine from an accounting standpoint - at least in this corner of the world.

ChuckMcM
Having run Ops it is sort of a company by company thing, that said the most common thing is yes, you return the equipment and the company generally sanitizes it and then sells it for scrap/resale to a third party (there are a lot of them out there, set your LinkedIn job title to "VP of Operations" or IT and they will seek you out.

From a governance perspective, the important thing is to be sure employees return all IP which is typically on laptops and phones, so generally folks are less concerned about getting monitors or keyboards back. Local backups should be returned as well if you have them.

For my last few jobs I negotiated that I would keep what ever company issued laptop I had at the time of my separation, with the company having the option to reset it to factory before releasing it to me. One of my managers thought it was a good idea (because he didn't have any use for "old" laptops)

emodendroket
Realizing how stingy my employer is here.
penjelly
i dont understand this mentality. The parent comment mentioned the main reason, its to ensure the device is wiped of IP. Then its simply due process, if you allow some people to keep the device then theres a whole discussion that needs to happen at firing about getting the device back and then returning it to the ex-employee. Its added trouble(cost) for the employer and the device belongs to them to begin with. I certainly never expected to keep a laptop after I left an org, and dont perceive that as stinginess, just sensible business.
emodendroket
He says "most employers" don't care about getting back stuff mine does.
gaws
> sells it for scrap/resale to a third party

Where can one find these vendors?

autotune
I have returned all company equipment in the past after getting laid off except for one ex company's laptop, now paperweight, I have had since January, because they have not offered to pay return shipping fees and haven't bothered following up. Also got a free monitor from them. Their stock is floating around $3/share right now so I don't think they have the resources to pay for return shipping.
teeray
I wonder how abandoned property works in this circumstance? I’m sure the courts will see the item as clearly the employer’s, but why should you be providing free storage for their equipment? You’re also assuming liability for that laptop (e.g. cat knocks over water glass onto it), so how does that work?
Aeolun
I imagine the judge will side with you if you’ve made a reasonable effort to return the equipment.
extasia
Does reasonable include paying for shipping?
autotune
My silent hope is the company goes out of business before something accidentally happens to the laptop and I no longer have to worry about it. I refuse to pay for return shipping on it as a matter of principle.
offsky
You could ship it by COD? If they don’t pay, it gets returned and you can assume it’s yours.
teeray
This is a great idea. I honestly forgot COD exists, since it’s so infrequent these days. But it does seem perfect for this situation.
andmikey
Same situation for me (albeit left the job at the end of the contract, not laid off). I’ve had the laptop for over a year now because IT refused to pay return shipping. I’ve followed up a few times and been told it’ll be sorted, but never hear back…
ajma
I was once at a company where the company was doing really poorly too. They still sent collection agencies after people who didn't return laptops and phones.
yellow_lead
If this happens to you in the OP's situation you can dispute the debt.
daxfohl
I still have my SAW machine from Microsoft (quit, not laid off) and nobody has ever given me any indication what to do with it.
jrowley
What is a SAW machine?
kris-nova
A Microsoft SAW is a demonic artifact stemming from when Satan himself forged a computer a casts it onto the surface of the earth and into the hands of mankind. It’s the best worst way to access production. It’s how anyone who has ever been on call for Azure accesses production and it’s the last thing you see before Cerberus herself begins chanting “Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch’intrate” and welcomes you to hell for all eternity.
Jalad
> Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch’intrate

Abandon all hope, ye who enter; from Dante's Inferno

markerz
No, it was gifted to us at my current place.

My previous employer wanted it back even though they’re a trillion dollar company.

agsamek
Our company tracks all the laptops and mobile phones. On onboarding we send them to the programmer and during offboarding we collect them back. Shipping label are always generated by us. At the end of life we sometimes give away devices to their users after resetting them. In case of laptops we mostly have a second life for them as long as they are fully functional - they are used by administration, as a second device for projects as needed, etc. But we do not plan to wind down anytime soon, so this might be a different story with a startup going bankrupt. In particular once the person responsible for administration is no longer with the company ;)
asciimov
I once had a VP that told us to take anything that wasn't bolted down as they had closed the branch and laid off all but three people. I got a desk, computer, several monitors, big nice shredder. I only have the shredder left, it still gets the job done.

Another place, a small biz, wanted everything, including the Kindle I had been gifted earlier in the week. Even tried to get me to give up the laptop case I purchased for the work laptop. Nothing worse than having to take back a cheap Kindle, hours after being laid off.

extasia
Talk about Indian Giving lol... Jesus
belfalas
I wasn’t laid off but when I left my last job it was during the pandemic. My employer made it super easy since the IT folks tracked everything. They simply sent me a FedEx slip, I took it to my local place, they put my laptop in a box, end of story. It couldn’t have been easier. (For those wondering I got a follow up saying thanks for returning the equipment)
caseyf7
Technically you and the employer both owe taxes if you keep it because it is considered compensation. This is why it is usually returned.
echelon
Employers play it fast and loose with fringe benefits. It's most often PCI or other compliance reasons that laptops are kept.

My last company gave out TVs, furniture, expensive kitchenware, etc. They warehouse the laptops underground for eternity. They won't even scrap the drives and resell them.

sys_64738
You're not keeping it per se. Merely waiting for them to send the box to return it as it's not your property.
gernb
Personally I wouldn't want any of the company's equipment. My own equipment is better. The company's is configured to let me access the corp network including cloud builds but otherwise it's not that great. I'd have no use for it and selling it wouldn't be worth all that much.
sys_64738
You can pull the SSD in most cases. Intel hardware depreciates really quickly so it might have no economic value after a few years. You can buy the like on eBay for cheap.
Vanit
We were told to return the laptop + charger, but not any othe accessories (keyboard etc).
sys_64738
I would return the laptop only. Chargers are usually reusable and always inevitably needed in my experience.
spoonjim
I was fired from a FAANG and was told to return my hardware. I didn't have a personal machine and didn't want to pay for one with no income so I just... didn't. I got one or two reminder emails and never heard from them again. I'm typing this comment on it.

I'm now employed elsewhere so if they ever ask again I'll happily send it back.

wdb
You would think FAANG developer would be able to afford buying it's own laptop with FAANG salaries
gaws
You cleared out all company monitoring on the machine, right?
spoonjim
I swapped the drive. The hardware + network card could be bugged though but unlikely.