My hope is that delay adds up to much more IO expansion, and a smaller node meaning similar performance per watt (or better) in the next Pi revision.
Having the support of the Pi engineering team means a lot of small businesses and hobbyists who depend on certain bits of hardware actually working (and not just being features in a bullet list) can solve interesting problems more easily with a Pi than with other similar SBCs (many of which are now a bit faster).
I wish more companies took this approach. A current Amazon listing has the Pi 4 4gb for 170$ usd and Ebay similarly has 120$ for an open box. I've seen the 8gb ram frequently listed for over 200$. I recognize the shortage of new Pis but, at those prices, I don't understand the demand. I just found a used, tested, ebay listing for a Intel NUC Micro PC i5-7260U 2.2Ghz 8GB RAM 250GB SSD with Windows 10 for 160$. That's not a cherry picked example, similar specs are available across multiple listings at the same price +- 20$.
Are there situations outside a power draw limits where choosing a Pi makes more sense than a used NUC or business mini PC at a comparable price?
The ecosystem of GPIO hats for various hardware that can be controlled by a raspberry pi. It’s why you see many other SBCs include the 40 pin header connectors, and often even mechanical hole placement to help with mounting…, they are trying to pick up some small parts of this market.
The main benefit of the Raspberry Pi in my opinion is the support. The documentation for the device is spectacular, and the community support is extremely good. Now, I don't feel this warrants paying $170 for the device, but when they are available at MSRP, this is quite the deal.
Yes. Anytime you want something to be replicable. If I am making a custom case, connector, or other piece of hardware, I want a standard part. A $170 RPi won't be $170 forever, but I know I'll be able to buy it approximately forever (or a compatible successor).
I want mounting holes, ports, and similar to be in the same place.
When I was first doing contract engineering work straight out of school, my time was worth $125/hour. Last time I was doing it, it was worth $350/hour. With inflation, I'd guess it's higher now, but I don't know.
A $170 part for prototyping is okay. An extra 5 hours dealing with compatibility or form factor issues is not.
It's a shame the company decided to play dumb about what they did on social media. I don't want to patronize a company that is fine alienating a whole segment of their community, then pretending like it never happened.
The rest of the world is moving on, and I'm fine with that. I'm particularly excited to see products like the Orange Pi 5, with up to 32 gigs of memory and a fast eight core CPU, and the 16 gig model is available now, for less than the cost of an 8 gig Pi 4.
Even when many, many people told them that they hadn't thought through that hiring a surveillance cop who used Raspberry Pis to spy on people is creepy and insensitive, they doubled down and blocked many, many people who complained.
Now this is bad all by itself, but that's not all. In an interview shortly after this, Liz Upton, Raspberry Pi's cofounder and chief marketing officer showed she's either REALLY ignorant or is intentionally trolling anyone who cares about this. She said:
Liz Upton, Raspberry Pi’s cofounder and chief marketing officer, told BuzzFeed she believes that much of the issue stems not from the hiring of the former police officer who admitted to using Raspberry Pis for covert surveillance, but instead from a picture the account posted to Mastodon a day earlier showing pigs in blankets. “We didn’t put a content warning on it, because we don’t put a content warning on meat,” Upton said. “There were quite a few people who tried to start dogpiling on that.”
Really? Does she REALLY think we're all just a bunch of angry vegans / vegetarians who are just upset about a photo? Or is she really that clueless? It's hard to tell, but I, for one, wouldn't trust a human like that with judgement about other humans.
I don't like what he did, but I don't like cancel culture even more. He ought to be able to get a job, just like anyone else. I'm not going to boycott a company for hiring someone, unless they're Adolf Hitler or something extreme like that.
Everyone makes mistakes. Many people have differences of opinion. Those shouldn't get one ostracized from society.
Nobody (that I know of or have seen) wants to punish him for his past. He, and they, are actively and currently proud of his surveilling work, so it's not in the past.
I still don't like to punish individuals (or organizations) for genuine differences in opinion from my own. I don't like cancel culture, even if I agree with what's being cancelled. If a company is engaging in something evil, like workplace safety violations, pollution, or corruption, I'll be the first to join the boycott.
However, if it's a question of religious views, polarizing issues like abortion / gun rights / etc., or whatnot, I'd like people to have freedom of expression, and to be able to talk about their views. That's part of a healthy society, and that include politicians and CEOs.
The exception there is if there's a clear financial conflict-of-interest (like an insurance company weighing in on abortion rights, a gun company on 2nd amendment, or a lot of issues on taxation). There, I'm cynical and don't think views expressed are honest, so much as self-serving.
Outside of cases like that, though, I think people should be free to express their honest views without consequences (beyond an unpleasant discussion).
Even on harmful issues -- like racism, sexism, or whatnot -- I still much prefer views out-of-the-closet than ones which are closeted. I live in a far-left town which is both hyper-racist, hyper-xenophobic, and hyper-woke. The latter makes it impossible to address the former. You can't hold an honest conversation about race, and so racist views persist, unarticulated.
I used to live in a moderate-right town, where while more racism was expressed (since people spoke openly), there was much less racism in practice. I'm an immigrant, and did much better there.
I think it's healthy to engage RPi about this issue, constructively (as in with a conversation). I don't think it's healthy to stop buying from them.
"Stop buying from them" is boycotting. This is what I've chosen to do.
It's wholly the fact that they did what they did in a very "in your face" way, as though they knew they'd be alienating people. Then, blocking people who weren't even saying anything bad was not a good way to handle it. But pretending the problem is something else entirely? That's some gaslighting BS right there, and that shows they have zero concern about the people they've ticked off, or perhaps even knew they were going to upset people, but did it anyway.
It's one thing to have differences. It's another to wholly not acknowledge them.
Imagine this: if instead of being a cop who used Pis for covert surveillance, what if their new hire had been a part of Iran's "morality police"? Is it OK because it was technically legal, even if it's abhorrent, inhumane behavior?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with boycotting a company that, by their direct actions, tells us they're completely OK with police surveillance. On the other hand, there's something wrong with suggesting that people, including victims of police surveillance and police brutality, should not stop buying from a company that glorifies police surveillance.
Yes. I said I won't boycott / stop buying over something like this.
We're agreed as to why it's offensive. There's no reason to beat a dead horse. A question is what's an effective change tactic. Simply lashing out is not an effective tactic; that's what toddlers to, and it rarely achieves the desired result.
If I don't like morality police in Iran, I can:
1. Completely isolate Iran. That's the most aggressive tactic, and very much a "tough on Iran" stance. It also almost guarantees no change will happen (see Afghanistan today).
2. Engage with Iran. This gives room for dialogue. That's a lot more likely to be effective, especially if I've taken time to engage and build trust first.
3. *Strategically* apply pressure. I've had a lot of luck with this as well.
There are many others.
The boycott tactic is a tough tactic, but I don't see it working towards the results I want. If RPi believes surveillance is right, but leads to a sales backlash, the most that can achieve is being more quiet about it. To me, that's the worst possible outcome.
At the same time, other companies will learn that speaking their views openly is dangerous. That has a lot more cascading effects I don't like.
The part people are taking issue with is the fact that they chose to put out marketing material highlighting his past usage of RPis for covert surveillance like it's some cool hobby project. If it were just a case of a company hiring an ex-cop I doubt anyone would bat an eye.
18 comments
[ 5.2 ms ] story [ 48.0 ms ] threadHaving the support of the Pi engineering team means a lot of small businesses and hobbyists who depend on certain bits of hardware actually working (and not just being features in a bullet list) can solve interesting problems more easily with a Pi than with other similar SBCs (many of which are now a bit faster).
Are there situations outside a power draw limits where choosing a Pi makes more sense than a used NUC or business mini PC at a comparable price?
I want mounting holes, ports, and similar to be in the same place.
When I was first doing contract engineering work straight out of school, my time was worth $125/hour. Last time I was doing it, it was worth $350/hour. With inflation, I'd guess it's higher now, but I don't know.
A $170 part for prototyping is okay. An extra 5 hours dealing with compatibility or form factor issues is not.
The rest of the world is moving on, and I'm fine with that. I'm particularly excited to see products like the Orange Pi 5, with up to 32 gigs of memory and a fast eight core CPU, and the 16 gig model is available now, for less than the cost of an 8 gig Pi 4.
https://raspberrypi.social/@Raspberry_Pi/109476972427437410
https://twitter.com/Raspberry_Pi/status/1600761840367448064
https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/meet-raspberry-pis-maker-in...
Even when many, many people told them that they hadn't thought through that hiring a surveillance cop who used Raspberry Pis to spy on people is creepy and insensitive, they doubled down and blocked many, many people who complained.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chrisstokelwalker/raspb...
https://www.theregister.com/2022/12/09/rpi_maker_in_residenc...
Now this is bad all by itself, but that's not all. In an interview shortly after this, Liz Upton, Raspberry Pi's cofounder and chief marketing officer showed she's either REALLY ignorant or is intentionally trolling anyone who cares about this. She said:
Liz Upton, Raspberry Pi’s cofounder and chief marketing officer, told BuzzFeed she believes that much of the issue stems not from the hiring of the former police officer who admitted to using Raspberry Pis for covert surveillance, but instead from a picture the account posted to Mastodon a day earlier showing pigs in blankets. “We didn’t put a content warning on it, because we don’t put a content warning on meat,” Upton said. “There were quite a few people who tried to start dogpiling on that.”
Really? Does she REALLY think we're all just a bunch of angry vegans / vegetarians who are just upset about a photo? Or is she really that clueless? It's hard to tell, but I, for one, wouldn't trust a human like that with judgement about other humans.
Everyone makes mistakes. Many people have differences of opinion. Those shouldn't get one ostracized from society.
I still don't like to punish individuals (or organizations) for genuine differences in opinion from my own. I don't like cancel culture, even if I agree with what's being cancelled. If a company is engaging in something evil, like workplace safety violations, pollution, or corruption, I'll be the first to join the boycott.
However, if it's a question of religious views, polarizing issues like abortion / gun rights / etc., or whatnot, I'd like people to have freedom of expression, and to be able to talk about their views. That's part of a healthy society, and that include politicians and CEOs.
The exception there is if there's a clear financial conflict-of-interest (like an insurance company weighing in on abortion rights, a gun company on 2nd amendment, or a lot of issues on taxation). There, I'm cynical and don't think views expressed are honest, so much as self-serving.
Outside of cases like that, though, I think people should be free to express their honest views without consequences (beyond an unpleasant discussion).
Even on harmful issues -- like racism, sexism, or whatnot -- I still much prefer views out-of-the-closet than ones which are closeted. I live in a far-left town which is both hyper-racist, hyper-xenophobic, and hyper-woke. The latter makes it impossible to address the former. You can't hold an honest conversation about race, and so racist views persist, unarticulated.
I used to live in a moderate-right town, where while more racism was expressed (since people spoke openly), there was much less racism in practice. I'm an immigrant, and did much better there.
I think it's healthy to engage RPi about this issue, constructively (as in with a conversation). I don't think it's healthy to stop buying from them.
It's wholly the fact that they did what they did in a very "in your face" way, as though they knew they'd be alienating people. Then, blocking people who weren't even saying anything bad was not a good way to handle it. But pretending the problem is something else entirely? That's some gaslighting BS right there, and that shows they have zero concern about the people they've ticked off, or perhaps even knew they were going to upset people, but did it anyway.
It's one thing to have differences. It's another to wholly not acknowledge them.
Imagine this: if instead of being a cop who used Pis for covert surveillance, what if their new hire had been a part of Iran's "morality police"? Is it OK because it was technically legal, even if it's abhorrent, inhumane behavior?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with boycotting a company that, by their direct actions, tells us they're completely OK with police surveillance. On the other hand, there's something wrong with suggesting that people, including victims of police surveillance and police brutality, should not stop buying from a company that glorifies police surveillance.
We're agreed as to why it's offensive. There's no reason to beat a dead horse. A question is what's an effective change tactic. Simply lashing out is not an effective tactic; that's what toddlers to, and it rarely achieves the desired result.
If I don't like morality police in Iran, I can:
1. Completely isolate Iran. That's the most aggressive tactic, and very much a "tough on Iran" stance. It also almost guarantees no change will happen (see Afghanistan today).
2. Engage with Iran. This gives room for dialogue. That's a lot more likely to be effective, especially if I've taken time to engage and build trust first.
3. *Strategically* apply pressure. I've had a lot of luck with this as well.
There are many others.
The boycott tactic is a tough tactic, but I don't see it working towards the results I want. If RPi believes surveillance is right, but leads to a sales backlash, the most that can achieve is being more quiet about it. To me, that's the worst possible outcome.
At the same time, other companies will learn that speaking their views openly is dangerous. That has a lot more cascading effects I don't like.