yes thats a big hole in the article. diesel is oil, its a wet fuel, like gasoline [vs propane]. diesels here in AK usually run with winter additive or ether start.
the best bet really is block heater, its built in most vehicles here, but there are "stick on hot pads" you can put on your oilpan. these are high heat, you can cook an egg on one if you wait a little longer
here in alaska we use block heaters as a must have.
Cold oil doesnt recirculate very well, of course a chronicaly cold engine, with cold oil, is going to display excessive wear.
so, why "warmup" a vehicle?
two parts...
1] old model vehicles dont have digital engine control its electromechanical.
cold carburetors run out of tune, unless you have auto choke and idle tuning.
so the block needs to be warm for efficiency and normal function.
2] it gets cold in the cabin of a alaskan vehicle no matter what make/model, as in deep negatives and hoar frost all over. most humans dont do well in this, and have to warmup the cabin to function outside of hypothermia. this is afew levels beyond scraping frost of a window.
I am asserting that the function of the car is to provide a comfortable environment, not merely to physically transport. Otherwise why does it even have a heater or an air conditioner?
I don't think there is any valid argument for austerity on this tooic. I am saying it's perfectly valid to warm the car up simply because you want to because it's more comfortable and makes clearing the windows easier, because the only reason the car even exists is to be a tool to make your life easier. If that warm up time consumes some of the device's life, so what? Every minute of use consumes a minute of it's life. These few minutes of use are no different than any other few minutes of use.
"peratures can shorten the life of your engine by stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders — two critical components that help your engine run."
Nonsense, if the oil pump and engine are built correctly and working as intended this does not cause librication not to work correctly. How many cabs would die early because they are idling in traffic all day? Your personal cars engine is not a formula one cars engine that survives one weekend of driving.
Note that, for cost reasons, F1 teams are limited to 3 engines per driver for the season, with penalties for starting grid positions for exceeding this figure.
Article 23.3d 2018 Sporting Regulations
After consultation with the relevant power unit supplier the FIA will attach seals to each of the relevant components within the power unit prior to them being used for the first time at an Event in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced.
Within two hours of the end of the post-race parc fermé exhaust blanking plates (with one 10mm diameter inspection hole per cylinder) and further seals will be applied to all used power unit components in order to ensure that they cannot be run or dismantled between Events.
Upon request to the FIA these additional seals will be removed after the start of initial scrutineering at the next Event at which the power units are required.
All such power units must remain within the team’s designated garage area when not fitted to a car and may not be started at any time during an Event other than when fitted to a car eligible to participate in the Event.
I think these discussions are risky because of causation/correlation.
Cabs, police cars, UPS/Fed-Ex trucks need engine/transmission rebuilds sooner because they stop/start every day all day long. For example a Fed-Ex panel truck with a Cummins engine and Allison drive train will last for about 1 million miles without rebuild if used as a light duty such as a plumber or electrician or personal vehicle. Used as a Fed-Ex delivery vehicle it will need a rebuild at around 410K to 450K miles.
Idling is not causing the engine to need a rebuild at 40% of it's normal lifespan, its shutting it off and starting it over and over all day long.
I worked at the engine plant in the early 2000s that made the 4.6l v8 that was in Crown Victoria for cop cars and cabs. The cop/cab version of the engine was different in that it had a highly polished timing chain for exactly this reason.
The timing chain is splash lubricated and at idle there isn’t enough oil pressure to produce much splash. The high polish reduces friction particularly when there is little oil.
This feels a bit shallow. According to this website, another website says that warming your car in cold weather before driving can cause damage due to stripping oil from the piston.
I’m willing to believe it but I’d like to hear some details. Surely the engine is going to warm to the same temperature soon enough?
not if the oil is warm. if its cold where you are use a block heater so your oil is warm to begin with. then you can idle no problem, and get the cabin up to a human temperature
Yet another closed access post on HN. My last complaint about this got flagged, but I really don't care. The HN community needs to stand behind open internet, not contribute to an increasingly closed one.
I am on a VPN at the moment as I am traveling in Asia.
Even so, while paywalls are my #1 complaint, US-based sites who stonewall EU visitors is my #2. All they have to do is not collect data and then they don't have to worry about GDPR. Blocking EU visitors is a cop-out, and one that hurts them more. We can probably live without their "news". They're just losing eyes and traffic.
No, it's not a paywall. But yes, it is still "closed". Blocking EU visitors using GDPR as an excuse is a cop-out. All they have to do is _not collect data_ on visitors. Then there is no worry. And realistically, they don't need to worry anyway. They could simply add a statement at the footer saying EU visitors do so in agreement of US-based rules regarding data collection.
I do agree that submitters should not be required to test the site from origins they do not live in. But once it is known that the content is region limited, we should be able to mark it as such so HN can indicate that.
If we take this to the logical conclusion, the current state left unmanaged will become a HackerNews which most of us abandon like we abandoned Digg and Slashdot because of their missteps in the past. Of course, HN doesn't derive any revenue (as far as I know?), so maybe they do not care if their readership drops way off.
For me the benefits far outweigh the increased wear on the engine.
I don't really need my engine to last 400k miles like it can in perfect circumstances.
I need fog free windows, be comfortable driving the car without gloves on making the steering slip. To be able to focus on getting around and not shivering.
I don't drive these days but back when I did those were all issues I had for my 5am start getting to work. And far more a concern to me than the engine losing some longevity (which I could make up for just by proper care few people do anyways).
You will definitely get a ticket here if a cop sees you driving with windows iced or fogged up (which you should... it's a serious hazard to you, other drivers, and pedestrians).
On most mornings my windows will fog on the side I just cleared before I can get the other side clear. I clean my windows, and then a couple miles down the road they clear up, otherwise it's will be a while before they are clear.
I don't want to be That Guy[1], but an EV can run the climate control, warm the car and defrost the windows with absolutely no maintenance worries at all. Teslas can do it remotely while you sip your coffee or pack up your ski gear.
While true, how long can the car heat the batteries before it's practically unusable because the battery has depleted so much you need to charge it again before driving to work? Not everybody has a charging port at home, especially in Europe.
I am the guy that preheats his Honda to perfection. I will fly like a bat out of hell out of my front door in my boxers to start the car and run back inside to get ready for another 30 minutes. Yes, I am a total badass.
I’m not worried about maintenance because that is a fact of life. For Tesla’s too (mostly defects).
If your car breaks down shortly after you start driving it and the cabin is ice cold you’re in trouble. At least in a rural area.
This is a real important point - many drivers in the cold aren’t dressed for it at all and though even many rural roads will have someone pass by relatively soon a warm car is going to be nicer.
Of course anyone driving in freezing areas should have winter survival gear but who actually does?
Since having kids, always. I’m not particularly fussed about my comfort, but I really don’t want to have to walk a couple miles carrying an underdressed two-year-old (or leave them in the car).
Interesting that you think about it that way. My primary goals are the opposite:
1. To save as much money as possible. Meaning to make my car last as long as possible, postponing the need for repairs or a new car as long as possible
2. To reduce energy usage as much as possible. Not only to save money but also because it's good for the environment.
Which means I do exactly the opposite of yours. I'll to go great lengths to avoid turning on the car's heater. So I put on thicker clothes, I dry foggy windows with a towel, within the city I drive electric as much as possible (I have a hybrid), etc. I brake as little and as smoothly as possible to avoid kinectic energy being lost to braking (or if I do need to brake, at least have renegerative breaking recover 60%). All of this much to the chagrin of my wife who doesn't value such things at all. Or the guy behind me who's annoyed at the fact that I stop maintaining speed 100 meters away from the red light, instead of maintaining speed until 20 meters away and then braking in 2s.
I have the feeling that people like me are rare. It seems that when it comes to cars, nobody around me cares about saving money or saving the environment, they mainly care about comfort.
Yes so? I'd rather want that 30% energy to be converted to kinetic energy, than 0% energy being converted. What's the point of using a car as an immobile heater?
I'll turn on the heater once I'm on the highway, not before.
Are you aware not using the heater does not affect fuel efficiency in an ICE car? Heaters in ICE cars take the pull existing heat from the engine.
(I'm not aware of how your hybrid is programmed, it may or may not turn the engine on sooner if the heat is on.)
Letting off the gas 100 meters before a stop light and coast that will save gas, but of course it won't be more efficient to brake for the 100 meters before a stop sign, except for regen, as you mention. And is indeed obnoxious for other drivers if you are braking way before a sign.
Hypermiling is a good idea, but it's a trap to to slip into an orthorexia-type mindset about efficiency - imbuing virtue into deprivation. Going to "great lengths" to not turn on your car's heater, in addition to being 100% pointless if your ICE engine is running, is an asshole move if other people are in the car. I think it's worth it to fight the feelings of superiority you allude to in your last sentence.
I say all of this as somebody who thinks 95% of drivers would be best served by a Prius or Leaf.
> Are you aware not using the heater does not affect fuel efficiency in an ICE car? Heaters in ICE cars take the pull existing heat from the engine.
It does in many hybrids, particularly those that can operate in EV mode at higher speeds. When heat is commanded, they often will idle under even under no load conditions just to maintain coolant temp. These are conditions which otherwise would use zero fuel.
A fun party trick in my hybrid is that I can turn on and off my engine during the winter at a stop light by using the on/off switch for the climate controls. It’s instantaneous.
Sadly the climate control pre-conditioning on the PiP only uses the battery (or mains, if left plugged in) to cool the interior before you set off, not to heat it. I guess this is because it doesn’t have reverse cycle AC, so can’t pump heat into the interior, only out of it. Far less useful in the UK than California.
Turning on the heater reduces my electric miles by a factor of 3. More energy is spent on heating than on moving.
> I think it's worth it to fight the feelings of superiority you allude to in your last sentence.
In every other thread about climate, people hyperventilate about the doom of climate change. But when I try to do my part, it's "100% pointless" and is characterized as merely wanting to feel superior?
This to me sounds like people want to be cynical while at the same time not wanting to do anything about it.
I used to be the same way too but in warmer weather I would try not to run the A/C in my car. I think that kind of turned out to be a bad decision though because my car was older and by refusing to turn on the A/C, I think that might have made it more likely for the system to get messed up. I don't know the exact reasons, but maybe it has to do with the lack of pressure and the coolant not circulating.
I love how some people get precious about cars and engines, something like "if you idle it for too long you're shortening its lifespan" and even if it's moderately true my answer would be "Yeah, so what? It's a clunky block of 19th century technology, who cares?"
Yeah sure, you don't need it to sit idle for something like 30 min, just wait for it to get a bit warm then drive away. Worrying about this will cost me more than not worrying.
That specifically talks about using the AC, because it's dehumidified air. The AC also requires the engine to be running, so blasting the windshield with hot air or air-conditioned air will require running the engine for roughly the same amount of time.
I don't know about your car, but it takes less than a minute to defog my windows. I don't think anyone is claiming that running the engine for a minute is bad.
It was -15 degrees F the other morning and the inside of my windshield was ice. It took far longer than a minute to clear. Also took far longer than a minute to reach a tolerable temperature, even in decent garb!
> In a blog post on its website, Smart Motors Toyota says letting your car idle in cold temperatures can shorten the life of your engine by stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders — two critical components that help your engine run.
> via VERIFY
Great, they got some kind of content from somewhere else. Let’s follow the link to verifythis.com:
> Yes, warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine.
> In a blog post on its website, Smart Motors Toyota says letting your car idle in cold temperatures can shorten the life of your engine by stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders
There’s even a video!
Let’s click the actual link to smarttoyota.com:
> Warming up your vehicle can actually shorten the life of your engine, by letting your vehicle idle in the cold you are actually stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders each time you do this. While you may wonder where this myth came from since it’s not true, it’s because it was once based on facts. Jake Scheafer the Service Director at Smart Motors’ says before cars and trucks were equipped with fuel management systems, they relied on carburetors and simpler fuel system management which did need significant time to warm up.
Hint: next time you make a video based on some other source, try reading at least two sentences.
OTOH, the bar seems really low for ChatGPT to emulate the capabilities of these websites…
I think you're misunderstanding. The "myth" being referred to in that third link is that it's beneficial to warm up your engine by letting it idle for a long time. This was previously true for cars with carburetors, but is no longer useful for modern cars.
The idea that idling the engine for an extended time after a cold startup can cause damage is correct, and that idea is consistent in all three articles you're referring to.
When your engine is running the oil pump ought to be circulating oil across relevant surfaces, I don't see how idling would 'strip it away.' If that was the case, why would they sell cars with remote starters?
What the article is saying here is technically correct, but I doubt the effect is as large or as detrimental as the article says.
The key point is that, as the piston moves up and down in the cylinder, the part of the cylinder wall that is traversed is alternately wetted by oil and gasoline. When it is wetted by gasoline (i.e., when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke), some of the oil can dissolve. But when it is wetted by oil again (i.e., when the piston is at the top of its stroke), as you say, the oil pump will push more oil onto the surface and replace what was lost. So the actual effect will be to very slowly decrease the amount of oil in the engine. This might also mean a small increase in engine wear, but I would not expect that to be very significant compared to all the other sources of engine wear. If one is really concerned about the possible loss of oil, just check the level between changes (which many people do anyway).
> If you are getting more than a super tiny film of oil in the cylinder, you’re burning oil because your rings are toast.
The "cylinder" is more than just the portion where combustion occurs, when the piston is at or near top dead center. The portion the article is talking about is the portion that, as I said in my previous post, is exposed to gasoline when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke--as it will be at the end of both the intake and the power strokes in a 4-stroke engine. If the mixture is rich, there will be extra gasoline present under those conditions that, according to the article, could dissolve the oil wetting the cylinder walls. That will be the case even if the rings are fine. I just don't think it's anywhere near as significant as the article claims, because, as the poster I responded to pointed out, even if some oil is dissolved in the extra gasoline, it will be replaced as the piston rises again and that portion of the cylinder wall is on the oil side of the rings.
The cylinder has rings to remove that oil, hence my comment.
There should also be very little to no gasoline contacting the cylinder walls at the bottom of the stroke, or at all. The air currents inside rarely directly contact the cylinder walls.
If you have any evidence that the effect you’re describing exists, it would be nice if you link to it!
I don't have any evidence either way, I'm simply trying to get clear about the effect the article is claiming. I am not saying I agree with the article's claims. As I have already said, I don't think the claimed effect would be significant if it exists.
I’m guessing this is the real danger from all the chatgpt like seo crud being generated - lots of ‘maybe, maybe not’ junk generated everywhere that wastes everyone’s time and drowns out useful signal. :(
Eventually, what will we be left with? Authority based credibility? Age based? If it isn’t in a 50 year old book directly available via the library of Congress it’s spam?
Always take Business Insider with a huge grain of salt. In addition, their articles can be very politically biased, if you know what I mean. Always consider the other side of the argument when reading from lower tier sources like Business Insider.
I'm sure the cited expert really is an expert, but this article fails miserably at conveying any cohesive understanding from them to you. It's full of conclusions that don't follow from their leading statements.
My understanding about warming up an engine before putting load on it had nothing to do with fuel or power steering fluid, it was about thermal expansion of all the machined parts that suffer wear if they are run under load while they are loose-fitting from being cold. This is a thing even in summer and merely worse in winter.
This article barely talks about this and doesn't say anything intelligible but just says "stress" from stepping on it right away.
Maybe that issue also no longer exists on modern engines, but nothing in this article explains that.
Mostly everything this says about why idling is supposedly bad, applies to operating the thing at all, idling or not. The conclusion would be "don't use your car at all in winter"
Well, if you're going to use it at all, then you're already doing the damage, so you might as well be comfortable and have an easier time clearing the windows. The device only exists in the first place to serve you.
Absolutely. The risk of putting load on the engine before the moving parts and oil have reached operating temps is far greater than the threat of tiny amounts of gasoline washing residual oil from the cylinder walls or thinning the oil.
The only risk described here applies to prolonged idling only and is a long term risk mitigated by reasonable elwarmuo and oil changes. The short term risk is the rotating assembly and value train is far more immediate.
Fuel injection has convinced people that they can just jump in a cold car, fire it up and be fine. Doing so, especially in extreme cold is just incredibly damaging.
I work in this industry (designing tools for automotive diagnostics), and have heard many arguments either way WRT warming up engines; I do not understand yours.
I work on the repairs side of this industry (diagnostic tools), and have come to the conclusion that while the thermal expansion is an issue, it’s probably not the largest or most fundamental one.
When an engine idles (with no load), it produces relatively little heat. Comparatively, an engine running faster, under load produces much more heat. The engine will warm up more quickly and less evenly when loaded, likely leading to thermal stress, and possible mismatched thermal expansion. On the other hand, modern lubricants are very good at handling different temperatures.
The other thing to consider is that the engine is only one part of the vehicle, and various other components of the drivetrain may actually suffer more thermal stress from the idling than from immediate driving.
Oil pressure seems to be left out of the conversation - oil-starved journal bearings can be bad news if loaded immediately. SOP in piston-engine aircraft is to get the oil temperature and pressure "in the green" before doing run-ups.
My 2018 car (gasoline, turbocharged, direct injection) has coolant and oil temp readouts. The increase in coolant temp from a cold start leads the oil temp by a few minutes (exact time is dependent on ambient temperature and load profile).
Once the oil temp starts to get above 150F it very quickly gets to the operating temp (220F), so I view that as the point that it's okay to go above 3000 RPM.
If there are oil heaters then they must be far away from the oil reservoir temperature sensor and only have a local effect. As you say, that sounds like a feature for very large engines. It's probably a good practice to be gentle to car engines with cold oil.
Street cars have been using coolant/oil heat exchangers to bring oil up to temp faster and regulate its temperature under load since at least 1999 (source: VW's 1.8T, AEB and AWP motors).
The most common heater of an industrial engine is for the jacket water. Keeping the entire block heat soaked is the easiest/safest way to heat the oil as well. Using a "prelube pump", which is a low pressure, low volume circulation pump that parallels the main engine driven pump, oil is continuously sent throughout the internal passages
Having a water jacket around the cylinder makes it less possible for the cylinder to heat (and change size) unevenly versus an air(/oil)-cooled engine. That same water jacket permits the tolerances to be set to assume a maximum head temp under 300°F (versus 460°F for airplanes). That means the steel rings don’t have to deal with as much dissimilar expansion as the aluminum heads and pistons. This allows engineers to choose tolerances accordingly. It’s not so much modern metallurgy or electronic controls, but a factor of having a lower temperature range.
I don't see how water jackets, pistons rings, and their tolerances are directly relevant here. The topic was bearings, and their lubrication and wear, in the larger context of warming up your car before driving in cold weather.
Imagine a cold-soaked engine with an aluminum piston, steel rings, a cast iron sleeve in an aluminum head. The aluminum piston will heat very quickly compared to the cast iron sleeve in an air-cooled engine. (There’s a massive aluminum heat sink in the form of the cylinder head.)
For a water cooled engine, there is a water passage around 3/16” from the cylinder wall which helps to bring the cylinder up to an even temperature more quickly and prevents a high heat flux from expanding the piston to the point where it can scuff the walls.
It’s not only oil pressure that is a concern for a cold-start to operating temps.
If your engine doesn't have oil pressure before it's even finished starting, either it's a bit faulty or you're using a grossly incorrect grade of oil.
Unlikely to be starved, (unless it’s really cold and then you barely have any oil), but bearings can be washed out by high oil pressure, which is a consideration with cold oil.
I have the same recommendation on my car user manual, don't warm the engine, but take off after start up and take it slow for a few minutes until the engine water moves off the base.
I know one of the engineers that worked at the car design and when questioned, he explained (going off memory here) that people used to warm the engine, then started driving normally, and while the engine is hot, the trasmission and differentials aren't, but you don't have a good way of warming them up while standing still, so drive off slowly and carefully without asking full torque from your engine, and it will help warm the whole thing.
Yeah, from my understanding, basically try to keep the engine load light until at least you’ve warmed your coolant to operating temperature, but ideally 5-10 minutes beyond that as your oil(s) will take longer to heat as they’re more viscous than coolant.
Basically, drive like a grandma for ~10-20 minutes before even moderately giving it the business.
The flip side of this is that, especially if you’ve got direct port fuel injection, you’ll actually want to give it the business on occasion (once properly warmed up) for best operation, as the detergent from an increased fuel spray can help to break up carbon buildup on the top of your pistons. Either way you’ll likely want to book in carbon cleanup as a periodic maintenance item.
It's like lithium ion batteries. There is a set of "rules" for taking the best possible care of the battery, but you mostly can't actually follow them, while still getting any utility out of them since adhering to them strictly is almost more effort than living without a battery.
So all that's reasonable is simply to be aware of the ideals, and by inference the anti-ideals, and let them guide whatever freedom you do have, while just using the thing however you need to.
If you need to actually use your laptop on batteries freque tly, then go ahead and allow it to charge to 100% instead of limiting it to 50% to 80%. If you live somewhere cold and need to use a device in the cold, well then you just go ahead and use it outside of the ideal temperature range.
But the knowledge is still useful because there are still plenty of times where you could do any number of things and don't much care which since they're all equal effort, but they aren't all equally good for your equipment, and all else being equal, you would be just as happy to adopt a habit that gives x extra years of lufe than one that removes x years of life, if you simply knew about it.
Like, you don't really care that much where in your house you plop some device when you're not using it for weeks at a time, but a shelf in a covered cabinet is better than a table in direct sunlight, is better than sitting directly on top of a steam radiator.
Your work commute precludes the absolute ideal, but within your limits there is still a lot of opportunity to do things more vs less optimally. You might intentionally take local roads to the next exit, or for merely 10 miles even the whole way.
Or just don't even worry about it at all because diffs and trannies are really not what die first or most, and trannies do warm up some just from the torque converter pumping and the radiator loop.
And manuals just aren't a problem no matter what. They may shift harder but they aren't being hurt much. In any climate that even has cold, everything else will rust to junk before a manual tranny even needs a new clutch let alone any kind of actual wear to the gears or synchros.
Honestly, the other commenter hit the nail on the head in that "optimum" doesn't mean "necessary"—but 10 minutes of a commute isn't enough to get your engine fully up to working temperature and you are shortening its lifespan. Maybe it doesn't matter to you, and that's totally fine. If you're changing vehicles every couple of years you're probably not even going to run into needing significant repairs as a result of it, but if you're planning on keeping your vehicles for a longer period of time it's definitely something you should consider.
Modern vehicles have high quality oils, tight tolerances but rpm dependent oil pumps. At idle, the oil pressure is lowest, the fuel energy is lowest and consequently the engine will take the longest to come up to operating temperature.
I thought it was just me because I'm not an expert on engines, but apparently not.
And I agree with your last point, it was the other thing that was bothering me by it. What exactly is actionable here, to me it's just normal wear and tear.
My two cents on this, based on personal observation of driving habits: The real problem is that people will warm up the engine and cab, and then drive the vehicle like the entire thing has warmed up. Something that couldn't be further from the truth. Your tires will be low on air pressure. The entire driveshaft will be dry and its lube will be more viscous than normal. The digital traction controls and diff locks could be stuck (or at abnormally slow to respond).
So, IMO, while there's benefit to letting an engine warm up, keep it under 2k RPM for the first couple of miles; until the entire drive train is also warmed up.
Nope. Don’t fill them up to spec while cold, otherwise when driving they will be overinflated - possibly dangerously so.
As you run on cold tires, they heat back up, and the tire pressure comes up accordingly. At moderately cold temperatures (20 or so), that can be about 10-15%. At -20 or so, it’s almost 25-30%. Potential blowout territory depending on your tires condition and age.
In more extreme cases, the tires may look dead flat while cold, and perfectly normal once warmed back up.
The volume of air in the tires hasn’t changed, just it’s temperature. And they’re easy to get back up to temp with some easy driving for a few miles.
First the heater without the engine started for 10-15 minutes, then if it’s really cold I remote start the engine for 5 minutes before driving. But I avoid idling the car cold without running the heater first.
I use either an electric engine/cabin heater or a fuel burning heater. Of course you need to get the heat from something before the engine is started. Because the engine is what I want to heat before starting it.
On my current car it’s the latter (fuel heater). Often comes with the cold weather package package on new cars at least European ones. Those packs usually add some of heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, fuel engine/cabin heater, retractable headlight washers etc.
Oil is more viscous in colder temps, especially at 0f and below. The oil needs to rise from the pan and up into the pistons, the piston seals assume a certain viscosity of oil. You want to have as little stress as possible until the oil reaches even just room temp. While revving the engine up won't immediately destroy it, that heat does not transfer from the pistons to all of the oil simultaneously.
Synthetic oils have a wider temp range where they maintain viscosity and lubricating properties. Of anything, always recommend good quality full synthetic oils for cold climates.
If your oil is too thick to spread accurately, the problem is that you are using an incorrect oil, not that your motor is cold. Oil --must-- work even when is cold.
If your area reaches -40F in winter you will need a "0 Winter 30" oil grade; or 0W/30, that is more expensive but very thin so it will not freeze
5W/30 will work until -31F
10W/40 will not freeze until 0F. This is the standard grade used for both winter and summer in many temperate areas
If you use the 15W grade for tropical areas in cold places, the oil could be too thick, will freeze at night and lose their properties. If you start the car without warming it first, you will probably damage your engine and your oil pump will suffer.
Change it ASAP to the lower viscosity grade that could be managed by your engine (or keep the car in a warmed garage until spring. Your car, your choice). Check the owner manual.
A too thin oil will lubricate worse. If you live in hot climates, 10W and 15W will perform better in summer
Diesel vehicles will care of warming the diesel before to start and will refuse it unless the diesel is warm enough. If starting the car at morning takes ages, some of your glow plugs are probably broken and will need to be replaced.
This can be a delicate operation. If stuck don't force it, go to a professional with the correct tools. Old plugs can be fragile and if they break inside the engine, it will be a very expensive mistake.
“Must work when cold” is not the same as “must work at load when cold”. Most modern cars have a limited redline, until the engine warms, because of this.
Non totally optimum performance is not really a problem. The real problem is that USA is huge and cover many different climates. If you drove a car from Florida to NY without taking this in mind, in theory you could end with a non working car stuck in the middle of a dangerous blizzard
I think that there is even a -5W grade for people in really extreme climates like Canada, Russia or Alaska, but I never had seen it. Maybe somebody here uses it?
The last number in oil grades will be 20, 30 or 40 typically for cars. 20 will lubricate pieces faster.
You won't be able to drive at all without warming up in Siberia at -42.
In fact it's very hard to start the engine from cold state.
So everyone who was able to afford a pre-start heater were installing them. And those who were not were hooking up auto start timers (usualy paired with a crappy aftermarket alarm) so the cars were constantly starting in low temperatures (-30 and lower).
During my trip in northern Siberia, while sipping my morning coffee, I saw a guy start up his lada niva by -40 the old fashioned way.
He opened the engine bay, put a rug on his engine, took a blowtorch and lit it under the engine. He heated the engine oil pan and gearbox for 10 min, and then started his engine with a battery he brought with him.
There are still electric heaters which plug into the temperature sensor hole and they are dirt cheap. But yep, some people still do all that open flame crap.
Engine oil gets a lot of cargo cult on automotive forums. Personally, I never saw an engine die because it missed the schedule by some thousands km. I wait until my car tells me it needs an oil change, and then I wait a bit more :).
The manufacturers say change the oil every 3000 miles (or whatever), the oil commercials say it is good up to 100,000 miles, split the difference is what I say.
My last vehicle did have a bit of a valve train knock though…
Modern synthetic oils can be run for longer intervals with regular filter changes in most vehicles. The 100k claims are on very specific circumstances by a few manufacturers.
The valve hydraulic lifter noise can usually be shut up by using a high detergent oil (I use Rotella t6 in vehicles that do it).
I claim no expertise, as this is the internet and my credentials are entirely virtual and imaginary.
* Business insider is often a click bait.
* Taxis and Police cars idle all day. That's fine because their engine is warm. We're talking about damage being done at cold start and idle.
* The only time the engine is without much lubricant is when it is cranked.
* When the engine has started and running, oil is forced into different places that need it. Viscosity is not optimal, but it's good enough, as long as it's been changed appropriately, and not already a sludge.
* At idle, the oil pump is at its lowest output. The fast idle at cold start mitigates that. Fast idle also warms up the engine faster than normal idle. Driving it will give it good output.
* Engines do warm up slower when idling (<1k rpm) vs driven right away (2k+ rpm).
Taken all this together, it's fine to start the engine when cold, let it idle for 30 seconds, and start driving.
It's also fine to start the engine cold, and let it idle and warm up while you scrape the windshield and make a cup of coffee.
Millions of people do both of the above, and their cars are fine. Ignore Business Insider, and maintain your cars as per its manual.
What? My car (which is quite old) has indicator of cold water, and recommends not to drive it till it is gone. It takes 3 minutes of idling in winter for that indicator to be gone. I assume other cars have it too.
For that 3 minutes, RPM is high, you can see it at needle and you can hear it too. Once indicator is gone, RPM needle drops and noise becomes lower too.
Don't listen to this nonsense as it's absolute baloney.
I would ask the experts that design engines and oil rather than a one-off op-ed piece from a news source with a questionable reputation, a history of sensationalism, and zero applicable scientific qualifications.
The primary reason you warm up your engine is because oil is more viscous at cold temperatures. All engine oils have cold flow characteristics and modifiers. It doesn't take a very large temperature rise for oil to thin out and begin filling the various galleries in your engine. Just a a few minutes will absolutely extend the life of your engine and prevent oil starvation on critical components.
As a side note, as your oil ages, the viscosity modifiers break down; so older oil needs more time to flow properly, _especially_ if it's been 'cooked' at high temps from the summer. For your oil changes, try to change it between seasons, or if you do a yearly change, change it in the fall after the summer heat.
My experience is that the viscosity modifiers are more warm-thickening than cold-thinning modifiers. It seems to behave like a low-viscosity base oil and additives to reduce thinning with temperature. (Not a petro /materials engineer.)
Modern synthetic oils are plenty viscous at subzero temperatures. Warming your engine isn’t necessary in a modern vehicle beyond taking it easy for the first 5-10 min of driving.
(Nor will it appreciably decrease your engine’s lifespan.)
Not convinced. Sure an idle engine heat a bit slower than an used one, but all components around the engine, even a bit underneath, get a bit of heat. The cabin heated a bit allow easier removing of ice, plastic materials are LESS fragile due to the less freezing temp etc.
I think such articles mean: do not burn fuel for nothing, do not leave powered on ICE for long period of time, and I agree with that, but try to stating it offer something really good or really bad to expected car service life is a bit ridiculous.
199 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 214 ms ] threadthe best bet really is block heater, its built in most vehicles here, but there are "stick on hot pads" you can put on your oilpan. these are high heat, you can cook an egg on one if you wait a little longer
Edit: ok, that one (https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/weather-verif...) didn't work. Switching to the URL suggested in the comments below. Thanks!
https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-what-idling-your-car-i...
Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/weather-verify..." on this server. Reference #18.51d1202.1671993608.7d094d83
Cold oil doesnt recirculate very well, of course a chronicaly cold engine, with cold oil, is going to display excessive wear.
so, why "warmup" a vehicle?
two parts...
1] old model vehicles dont have digital engine control its electromechanical.
cold carburetors run out of tune, unless you have auto choke and idle tuning. so the block needs to be warm for efficiency and normal function.
2] it gets cold in the cabin of a alaskan vehicle no matter what make/model, as in deep negatives and hoar frost all over. most humans dont do well in this, and have to warmup the cabin to function outside of hypothermia. this is afew levels beyond scraping frost of a window.
For most, it's a comfort thing and not necessary.
I am asserting that the function of the car is to provide a comfortable environment, not merely to physically transport. Otherwise why does it even have a heater or an air conditioner?
I don't think there is any valid argument for austerity on this tooic. I am saying it's perfectly valid to warm the car up simply because you want to because it's more comfortable and makes clearing the windows easier, because the only reason the car even exists is to be a tool to make your life easier. If that warm up time consumes some of the device's life, so what? Every minute of use consumes a minute of it's life. These few minutes of use are no different than any other few minutes of use.
Nonsense, if the oil pump and engine are built correctly and working as intended this does not cause librication not to work correctly. How many cabs would die early because they are idling in traffic all day? Your personal cars engine is not a formula one cars engine that survives one weekend of driving.
Article 23.3d 2018 Sporting Regulations After consultation with the relevant power unit supplier the FIA will attach seals to each of the relevant components within the power unit prior to them being used for the first time at an Event in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced.
Within two hours of the end of the post-race parc fermé exhaust blanking plates (with one 10mm diameter inspection hole per cylinder) and further seals will be applied to all used power unit components in order to ensure that they cannot be run or dismantled between Events.
Upon request to the FIA these additional seals will be removed after the start of initial scrutineering at the next Event at which the power units are required.
All such power units must remain within the team’s designated garage area when not fitted to a car and may not be started at any time during an Event other than when fitted to a car eligible to participate in the Event.
2018 F1 Sporting Regulations 17/70 19 December 2017 ©2017 Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile e) If any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the relevant components within the power unit after they have been used for the first time those parts may not be used again unless they were removed under FIA supervision.
and cop cars? Approximately all of them. This is well known.
https://old.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4pjnco/how_...
Cabs, police cars, UPS/Fed-Ex trucks need engine/transmission rebuilds sooner because they stop/start every day all day long. For example a Fed-Ex panel truck with a Cummins engine and Allison drive train will last for about 1 million miles without rebuild if used as a light duty such as a plumber or electrician or personal vehicle. Used as a Fed-Ex delivery vehicle it will need a rebuild at around 410K to 450K miles.
Idling is not causing the engine to need a rebuild at 40% of it's normal lifespan, its shutting it off and starting it over and over all day long.
What does polishing the timing chain accomplish? Or is it more “accurate” timing?
I’m also curious, in terms of idling and the longevity of the engine. It has to be said, those old Crown Vics are still on the road.
Isn't the article just talking about idling immediately after starting an engine on a cold day?
I’m willing to believe it but I’d like to hear some details. Surely the engine is going to warm to the same temperature soon enough?
"Access Denied You don't have permission to access "http://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/weather-verify..." on this server.
Reference #18.6dc31302.1671993353.baa1f4a "
I am on a VPN at the moment as I am traveling in Asia.
Even so, while paywalls are my #1 complaint, US-based sites who stonewall EU visitors is my #2. All they have to do is not collect data and then they don't have to worry about GDPR. Blocking EU visitors is a cop-out, and one that hurts them more. We can probably live without their "news". They're just losing eyes and traffic.
I was able to reproduce the error you got by accessing it through a browser in the UK.
I guess the site blocks access from countries that require compliance with GDPR.
I don't think people should be required to test that the site is available in every country, before posting or upvoting.
I do agree that submitters should not be required to test the site from origins they do not live in. But once it is known that the content is region limited, we should be able to mark it as such so HN can indicate that.
If we take this to the logical conclusion, the current state left unmanaged will become a HackerNews which most of us abandon like we abandoned Digg and Slashdot because of their missteps in the past. Of course, HN doesn't derive any revenue (as far as I know?), so maybe they do not care if their readership drops way off.
They could, but are you 100% sure this would comply with the law and eliminate the risk of penalties?
I don't know which entity runs the site, whether it has assets or operations in EU countries etc.
I'm also not a lawyer.
I can't say for sure what is the right business decision for them.
I'm curious (as I'm not in the EU and don't notice) roughly what proportion of HN front page stories are unavailable in the EU?
I also can't access this site from Germany.
I don't really need my engine to last 400k miles like it can in perfect circumstances.
I need fog free windows, be comfortable driving the car without gloves on making the steering slip. To be able to focus on getting around and not shivering.
I don't drive these days but back when I did those were all issues I had for my 5am start getting to work. And far more a concern to me than the engine losing some longevity (which I could make up for just by proper care few people do anyways).
Personally I can't drive with ice on my windows. Can't really see outside and I'm pretty confident that's illegal. Like 80%, but I'm not a lawyer.
[1] I totally want to be That Guy
This is not a significant concern, frankly.
If the car is plugged in– even to a typical 120V wall plug– it’ll charge and warm the battery even in single digit temps.
I’m not worried about maintenance because that is a fact of life. For Tesla’s too (mostly defects).
If your car breaks down shortly after you start driving it and the cabin is ice cold you’re in trouble. At least in a rural area.
Of course anyone driving in freezing areas should have winter survival gear but who actually does?
You might want to look into a remote starter accessory. I had it in my last vehicle to start the AC (I live in a warm climate).
1. To save as much money as possible. Meaning to make my car last as long as possible, postponing the need for repairs or a new car as long as possible
2. To reduce energy usage as much as possible. Not only to save money but also because it's good for the environment.
Which means I do exactly the opposite of yours. I'll to go great lengths to avoid turning on the car's heater. So I put on thicker clothes, I dry foggy windows with a towel, within the city I drive electric as much as possible (I have a hybrid), etc. I brake as little and as smoothly as possible to avoid kinectic energy being lost to braking (or if I do need to brake, at least have renegerative breaking recover 60%). All of this much to the chagrin of my wife who doesn't value such things at all. Or the guy behind me who's annoyed at the fact that I stop maintaining speed 100 meters away from the red light, instead of maintaining speed until 20 meters away and then braking in 2s.
I have the feeling that people like me are rare. It seems that when it comes to cars, nobody around me cares about saving money or saving the environment, they mainly care about comfort.
You know, heat is a byproduct of the combustion process…
—edit—
And these people who won’t turn on the AC to save gas end up messing up the aerodynamics and making the vehicle less efficient while also suffering.
I'll turn on the heater once I'm on the highway, not before.
(I'm not aware of how your hybrid is programmed, it may or may not turn the engine on sooner if the heat is on.)
Letting off the gas 100 meters before a stop light and coast that will save gas, but of course it won't be more efficient to brake for the 100 meters before a stop sign, except for regen, as you mention. And is indeed obnoxious for other drivers if you are braking way before a sign.
Hypermiling is a good idea, but it's a trap to to slip into an orthorexia-type mindset about efficiency - imbuing virtue into deprivation. Going to "great lengths" to not turn on your car's heater, in addition to being 100% pointless if your ICE engine is running, is an asshole move if other people are in the car. I think it's worth it to fight the feelings of superiority you allude to in your last sentence.
I say all of this as somebody who thinks 95% of drivers would be best served by a Prius or Leaf.
It does in many hybrids, particularly those that can operate in EV mode at higher speeds. When heat is commanded, they often will idle under even under no load conditions just to maintain coolant temp. These are conditions which otherwise would use zero fuel.
A fun party trick in my hybrid is that I can turn on and off my engine during the winter at a stop light by using the on/off switch for the climate controls. It’s instantaneous.
Sadly the climate control pre-conditioning on the PiP only uses the battery (or mains, if left plugged in) to cool the interior before you set off, not to heat it. I guess this is because it doesn’t have reverse cycle AC, so can’t pump heat into the interior, only out of it. Far less useful in the UK than California.
So if you want heat, you have to run the engine.
> I think it's worth it to fight the feelings of superiority you allude to in your last sentence.
In every other thread about climate, people hyperventilate about the doom of climate change. But when I try to do my part, it's "100% pointless" and is characterized as merely wanting to feel superior?
This to me sounds like people want to be cynical while at the same time not wanting to do anything about it.
I love how some people get precious about cars and engines, something like "if you idle it for too long you're shortening its lifespan" and even if it's moderately true my answer would be "Yeah, so what? It's a clunky block of 19th century technology, who cares?"
Yeah sure, you don't need it to sit idle for something like 30 min, just wait for it to get a bit warm then drive away. Worrying about this will cost me more than not worrying.
You don't need to warm the engine much to get that. It will clear up even with cold wind blowing on it.
https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/3174/which-i...
Just opinion.
> In a blog post on its website, Smart Motors Toyota says letting your car idle in cold temperatures can shorten the life of your engine by stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders — two critical components that help your engine run.
> via VERIFY
Great, they got some kind of content from somewhere else. Let’s follow the link to verifythis.com:
> Yes, warming up your car before driving in cold weather can damage the engine.
> In a blog post on its website, Smart Motors Toyota says letting your car idle in cold temperatures can shorten the life of your engine by stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders
There’s even a video!
Let’s click the actual link to smarttoyota.com:
> Warming up your vehicle can actually shorten the life of your engine, by letting your vehicle idle in the cold you are actually stripping away oil from the engine’s pistons and cylinders each time you do this. While you may wonder where this myth came from since it’s not true, it’s because it was once based on facts. Jake Scheafer the Service Director at Smart Motors’ says before cars and trucks were equipped with fuel management systems, they relied on carburetors and simpler fuel system management which did need significant time to warm up.
Hint: next time you make a video based on some other source, try reading at least two sentences.
OTOH, the bar seems really low for ChatGPT to emulate the capabilities of these websites…
Edit: we changed the URL from https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/weather-verif... now, to the article suggested by timmaxw and semi-extrinsic.
The idea that idling the engine for an extended time after a cold startup can cause damage is correct, and that idea is consistent in all three articles you're referring to.
What the article is saying here is technically correct, but I doubt the effect is as large or as detrimental as the article says.
The key point is that, as the piston moves up and down in the cylinder, the part of the cylinder wall that is traversed is alternately wetted by oil and gasoline. When it is wetted by gasoline (i.e., when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke), some of the oil can dissolve. But when it is wetted by oil again (i.e., when the piston is at the top of its stroke), as you say, the oil pump will push more oil onto the surface and replace what was lost. So the actual effect will be to very slowly decrease the amount of oil in the engine. This might also mean a small increase in engine wear, but I would not expect that to be very significant compared to all the other sources of engine wear. If one is really concerned about the possible loss of oil, just check the level between changes (which many people do anyway).
That has nothing to do with temperature, usually.
The "cylinder" is more than just the portion where combustion occurs, when the piston is at or near top dead center. The portion the article is talking about is the portion that, as I said in my previous post, is exposed to gasoline when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke--as it will be at the end of both the intake and the power strokes in a 4-stroke engine. If the mixture is rich, there will be extra gasoline present under those conditions that, according to the article, could dissolve the oil wetting the cylinder walls. That will be the case even if the rings are fine. I just don't think it's anywhere near as significant as the article claims, because, as the poster I responded to pointed out, even if some oil is dissolved in the extra gasoline, it will be replaced as the piston rises again and that portion of the cylinder wall is on the oil side of the rings.
There should also be very little to no gasoline contacting the cylinder walls at the bottom of the stroke, or at all. The air currents inside rarely directly contact the cylinder walls.
If you have any evidence that the effect you’re describing exists, it would be nice if you link to it!
Eventually, what will we be left with? Authority based credibility? Age based? If it isn’t in a 50 year old book directly available via the library of Congress it’s spam?
Ugh
My understanding about warming up an engine before putting load on it had nothing to do with fuel or power steering fluid, it was about thermal expansion of all the machined parts that suffer wear if they are run under load while they are loose-fitting from being cold. This is a thing even in summer and merely worse in winter.
This article barely talks about this and doesn't say anything intelligible but just says "stress" from stepping on it right away.
Maybe that issue also no longer exists on modern engines, but nothing in this article explains that.
Mostly everything this says about why idling is supposedly bad, applies to operating the thing at all, idling or not. The conclusion would be "don't use your car at all in winter"
Well, if you're going to use it at all, then you're already doing the damage, so you might as well be comfortable and have an easier time clearing the windows. The device only exists in the first place to serve you.
The only risk described here applies to prolonged idling only and is a long term risk mitigated by reasonable elwarmuo and oil changes. The short term risk is the rotating assembly and value train is far more immediate.
Fuel injection has convinced people that they can just jump in a cold car, fire it up and be fine. Doing so, especially in extreme cold is just incredibly damaging.
When an engine idles (with no load), it produces relatively little heat. Comparatively, an engine running faster, under load produces much more heat. The engine will warm up more quickly and less evenly when loaded, likely leading to thermal stress, and possible mismatched thermal expansion. On the other hand, modern lubricants are very good at handling different temperatures.
The other thing to consider is that the engine is only one part of the vehicle, and various other components of the drivetrain may actually suffer more thermal stress from the idling than from immediate driving.
I think this is the key difference between now and what used to be.
Also suspect modern engines are more carefully designed to handle thermal expansion.
There's a pretty good description here: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/779/journal-bearin...
These engines are often large enough to park a car inside, however.
Once the oil temp starts to get above 150F it very quickly gets to the operating temp (220F), so I view that as the point that it's okay to go above 3000 RPM.
If there are oil heaters then they must be far away from the oil reservoir temperature sensor and only have a local effect. As you say, that sounds like a feature for very large engines. It's probably a good practice to be gentle to car engines with cold oil.
https://store.ngpracing.com/acm-oil-cooler-heat-exchanger-1-...
They are almost exclusively air/oil-cooled, low-rpm engines, and a majority of them have designs dating back 50+ years.
it seems very unlikely that modern refinements have completely reversed the concerns.
For a water cooled engine, there is a water passage around 3/16” from the cylinder wall which helps to bring the cylinder up to an even temperature more quickly and prevents a high heat flux from expanding the piston to the point where it can scuff the walls.
It’s not only oil pressure that is a concern for a cold-start to operating temps.
I know one of the engineers that worked at the car design and when questioned, he explained (going off memory here) that people used to warm the engine, then started driving normally, and while the engine is hot, the trasmission and differentials aren't, but you don't have a good way of warming them up while standing still, so drive off slowly and carefully without asking full torque from your engine, and it will help warm the whole thing.
Basically, drive like a grandma for ~10-20 minutes before even moderately giving it the business.
The flip side of this is that, especially if you’ve got direct port fuel injection, you’ll actually want to give it the business on occasion (once properly warmed up) for best operation, as the detergent from an increased fuel spray can help to break up carbon buildup on the top of your pistons. Either way you’ll likely want to book in carbon cleanup as a periodic maintenance item.
So all that's reasonable is simply to be aware of the ideals, and by inference the anti-ideals, and let them guide whatever freedom you do have, while just using the thing however you need to.
If you need to actually use your laptop on batteries freque tly, then go ahead and allow it to charge to 100% instead of limiting it to 50% to 80%. If you live somewhere cold and need to use a device in the cold, well then you just go ahead and use it outside of the ideal temperature range.
But the knowledge is still useful because there are still plenty of times where you could do any number of things and don't much care which since they're all equal effort, but they aren't all equally good for your equipment, and all else being equal, you would be just as happy to adopt a habit that gives x extra years of lufe than one that removes x years of life, if you simply knew about it.
Like, you don't really care that much where in your house you plop some device when you're not using it for weeks at a time, but a shelf in a covered cabinet is better than a table in direct sunlight, is better than sitting directly on top of a steam radiator.
Your work commute precludes the absolute ideal, but within your limits there is still a lot of opportunity to do things more vs less optimally. You might intentionally take local roads to the next exit, or for merely 10 miles even the whole way.
Or just don't even worry about it at all because diffs and trannies are really not what die first or most, and trannies do warm up some just from the torque converter pumping and the radiator loop.
And manuals just aren't a problem no matter what. They may shift harder but they aren't being hurt much. In any climate that even has cold, everything else will rust to junk before a manual tranny even needs a new clutch let alone any kind of actual wear to the gears or synchros.
FYI
And I agree with your last point, it was the other thing that was bothering me by it. What exactly is actionable here, to me it's just normal wear and tear.
So, IMO, while there's benefit to letting an engine warm up, keep it under 2k RPM for the first couple of miles; until the entire drive train is also warmed up.
As you run on cold tires, they heat back up, and the tire pressure comes up accordingly. At moderately cold temperatures (20 or so), that can be about 10-15%. At -20 or so, it’s almost 25-30%. Potential blowout territory depending on your tires condition and age.
In more extreme cases, the tires may look dead flat while cold, and perfectly normal once warmed back up.
The volume of air in the tires hasn’t changed, just it’s temperature. And they’re easy to get back up to temp with some easy driving for a few miles.
If i "ran the heater without the engine on" in any of my vehicles it would just blow cold air, and for sure one uses engine waste heat for cabin heat.
On my current car it’s the latter (fuel heater). Often comes with the cold weather package package on new cars at least European ones. Those packs usually add some of heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, fuel engine/cabin heater, retractable headlight washers etc.
Synthetic oils have a wider temp range where they maintain viscosity and lubricating properties. Of anything, always recommend good quality full synthetic oils for cold climates.
If your area reaches -40F in winter you will need a "0 Winter 30" oil grade; or 0W/30, that is more expensive but very thin so it will not freeze
5W/30 will work until -31F
10W/40 will not freeze until 0F. This is the standard grade used for both winter and summer in many temperate areas
If you use the 15W grade for tropical areas in cold places, the oil could be too thick, will freeze at night and lose their properties. If you start the car without warming it first, you will probably damage your engine and your oil pump will suffer.
Change it ASAP to the lower viscosity grade that could be managed by your engine (or keep the car in a warmed garage until spring. Your car, your choice). Check the owner manual.
A too thin oil will lubricate worse. If you live in hot climates, 10W and 15W will perform better in summer
Diesel vehicles will care of warming the diesel before to start and will refuse it unless the diesel is warm enough. If starting the car at morning takes ages, some of your glow plugs are probably broken and will need to be replaced.
This can be a delicate operation. If stuck don't force it, go to a professional with the correct tools. Old plugs can be fragile and if they break inside the engine, it will be a very expensive mistake.
“Must work when cold” is not the same as “must work at load when cold”. Most modern cars have a limited redline, until the engine warms, because of this.
I think that there is even a -5W grade for people in really extreme climates like Canada, Russia or Alaska, but I never had seen it. Maybe somebody here uses it?
The last number in oil grades will be 20, 30 or 40 typically for cars. 20 will lubricate pieces faster.
In fact it's very hard to start the engine from cold state.
So everyone who was able to afford a pre-start heater were installing them. And those who were not were hooking up auto start timers (usualy paired with a crappy aftermarket alarm) so the cars were constantly starting in low temperatures (-30 and lower).
My last vehicle did have a bit of a valve train knock though…
The valve hydraulic lifter noise can usually be shut up by using a high detergent oil (I use Rotella t6 in vehicles that do it).
* Business insider is often a click bait.
* Taxis and Police cars idle all day. That's fine because their engine is warm. We're talking about damage being done at cold start and idle.
* The only time the engine is without much lubricant is when it is cranked.
* When the engine has started and running, oil is forced into different places that need it. Viscosity is not optimal, but it's good enough, as long as it's been changed appropriately, and not already a sludge.
* At idle, the oil pump is at its lowest output. The fast idle at cold start mitigates that. Fast idle also warms up the engine faster than normal idle. Driving it will give it good output.
* Engines do warm up slower when idling (<1k rpm) vs driven right away (2k+ rpm).
Taken all this together, it's fine to start the engine when cold, let it idle for 30 seconds, and start driving.
It's also fine to start the engine cold, and let it idle and warm up while you scrape the windshield and make a cup of coffee.
Millions of people do both of the above, and their cars are fine. Ignore Business Insider, and maintain your cars as per its manual.
Bosnia and Herzegovina here
For that 3 minutes, RPM is high, you can see it at needle and you can hear it too. Once indicator is gone, RPM needle drops and noise becomes lower too.
10-15 years from now this kind of article is going to be somewhat anachronistic sounding.
I would ask the experts that design engines and oil rather than a one-off op-ed piece from a news source with a questionable reputation, a history of sensationalism, and zero applicable scientific qualifications.
The primary reason you warm up your engine is because oil is more viscous at cold temperatures. All engine oils have cold flow characteristics and modifiers. It doesn't take a very large temperature rise for oil to thin out and begin filling the various galleries in your engine. Just a a few minutes will absolutely extend the life of your engine and prevent oil starvation on critical components.
As a side note, as your oil ages, the viscosity modifiers break down; so older oil needs more time to flow properly, _especially_ if it's been 'cooked' at high temps from the summer. For your oil changes, try to change it between seasons, or if you do a yearly change, change it in the fall after the summer heat.
(Nor will it appreciably decrease your engine’s lifespan.)
I don't think that's the case at all. The manufacturers don't say that, the oil companies don't say that, and testing doesn't show that.
I think such articles mean: do not burn fuel for nothing, do not leave powered on ICE for long period of time, and I agree with that, but try to stating it offer something really good or really bad to expected car service life is a bit ridiculous.