The difference is gasoline hasn't had this problem in decades. The conversion to fuel injection has eliminated the problem of frozen gas lines. Those still using unpressurized fuel lines have additives that again have been around for decades.
So yes it's news to many people that batteries have difficultly in subzero temperatures. There's almost no user workarounds available besides warming up the batteries.
EVs have air condition just for the batteries nowadays though - so they should be at ideal temperature regardless of outside conditions. My guess is in this case the heating on his car failed
That is continually the issue with Telsa: not necessarily the failure of the car or FSD or whatnot, but the failure when success was oversold to the point of embellishment.
The first 10-15m may be used to heat the battery, I think.
I agree. The person in the article tried two different superchargers and had the same problem at both. This sounds like a fault with some system ok this particular car.
A broken fuel pump in an ICE car wouldn’t mean they can’t handle the cold.
Same thing that is wrong with all cars: we can not avoid boiling the oceans while we waste that much energy to move just a few persons.
EVs and hybrids are better, but not by much. Replacing a private car with another private car, regardless of engine isn't as useful as removing that car form the road all together.
EVs are about six times better than gas cars. That is a lot!
EVs only give off about 30% more carbon than rail per passenger-km (on current UK electricity mix). And they are significantly more versatile! Carbon efficiency will at least double in most areas as we move to greener grids, without people needing to get new cars.
Tailpipes are only a small part of car-based pollution. When it comes to particles emitted from tires, EVs are much worse offenders than many internal combustion cars.
There's just no way to keep current use of private cars and achieve climate goals. Even if EVs would be magically twice as efficient as they are, just having a car is disastrous to the future of our planet, hence we should put efforts into reducing the need for cars, rather than trying to shave a few grams of particulate matter.
As far as I'm aware, tire particles are not a relevant contributor to global warming. We should try to improve there, and I would support regulatory goals around that. EVs are also only about 20% worse on tire wear compared to gas cars (due to the weight), so it's not like double or anything. Tire wear just isn't a significant issue for the most pressing concerns we have. (But again, worth looking into.)
Also, I'm not just talking about tailpipes. EVs are better from a carbon perspective over the whole life of the car, including both manufacturing and use.
The only way to achieve our climate goals is to actually reduce carbon emissions. It's not necessary to eliminate private cars to do this. I think we should invest in plenty of other transit types that are proven to lower carbon emissions. But cars aren't going away and they don't need to.
It's a false choice between "reducing the need for cars" and "making cars more efficient". We can do both, but EVs are going to be a major part of reducing carbon emissions for personal transport.
I have pondered the idea of removing a lot of the cars and how it would happen. Then I started looking into Lithium mining (and how that has to come from water in mass quantities by 2030 if politicians are to succeed of their lofty goals.
Politicians, for the most part, fail to do anything well. This will be no exception. So how do they reach the goal?
Outlaw ICE vehicles.
Slowly but surely you will see less and less cars on the road. The income needed to own a car will go up. Any government incentives will be eaten by increasing prices (as happened with Ford not even a week after a rebate was announced.)
I think the less favorable (and more accurate) metric would be carbon elisions amortized over productive lifetime: a trainset can last for half a century, while an ordinary consumer in the developed world might go through 4-5 new cars in that period. Making new cars (even and especially EVs) is carbon intensive and should probably be factored in.
It's already normalized to emissions per passenger-km, so I don't think the lifetime of the vehicle would skew it much unless it's efficiency changes over it's lifespan.
Additionally, someone buying 4 or 5 new electric vehicles is not a problem. Unless they put the old car in a landfill, that will still replace 4 or 5 gas cars on the road as they are resold down the line. The carbon costs of producing them are already factored in!
Hybrids are more complex than ice, and far more complex than bev.
The smaller (30 mile) battery will go through more cycles (at a higher wear cycle) more quickly. Mechanical maintenance o(oil changes, coolant) increases total cost of ownership.
Given limited battery production capabilities and expected lithium shortages, you can save a lot more emissions by pushing people towards plug-in hybrids than pure EV. IIRC, high battery costs mean that plug-in hybrids are cheaper to manufacture too, allowing better market saturation.
They are a stepping stone but a really, really good one in my view.
Anecdota - but I saw several (like three) Teslas with tow trucks responding (or parked in unusual places) in my area when the temp was sub 20f. Could be cold related range issues, could be an inability to charge, It's just very unusual to see so many of one make with troubles at the same time.
Admittedly, I felt a little smug as I drove by them in my toasty warm inside sedan with a V8, I feel less smug when I go to put gas in it ;-).
Because that's the car I wanted to buy. It only gets 30% worse economy than the V8 version of the same car.
I've driven a V8 powered sedan for almost 20 years, and shortly they won't be made anymore, so I custom ordered one of the last new ones I could order.
30% is a pretty big difference. I've said this before, wanting or liking something is not a good reason to do it. Many people would like or want to drink whiskey every day but that definitely increases the chance of developing cancers. Eating cake for every meal increases the risk of diabetes. Using excessively polluting transportation damages not only the environment but impacts the air quality for everyone else. We all have to breathe the same air
Oh boy, you're trying to take my whiskey and my car away (I'm already diabetic, so cake every meal is bad for me, also eating lots of sugar doesn't cause diabetes)? You sound like a delightful person to spend time around - do you criticize your friends in person for their choices or just random people on the internet who dont know you?
My snarkiness aside, my wife has an identical car with a v6, her car gets around 25mpg combined, I get around 20ish, we can get similar numbers for highway driving though, the difference falls off some at speed.
Both of us have 2021 Chrysler 300's - mine with a Hemi and hers with the Pentastar V6.
In any case, I like my car because it's fun to drive, and it was the first time I've ever ordered a new car, so I got exactly the car I wanted. I expect it'll be the last ICE car I'll ever purchase, so I wanted it to be exactly what I wanted.
I have relatives with SUV type ICE vehicles that get over 30mpg, all those emissions add up over time. 20mpg is atrocious in 2022
When people make extraordinarily bad choices I'm vocal about it no matter who it is. "One last time just for fun" is a poor reason to do just a bit more damage to our environment
Excess sugar intake has been linked to the development of type 2 diabetes independent of weight gain
39 comments
[ 2.4 ms ] story [ 91.9 ms ] threadSo yes it's news to many people that batteries have difficultly in subzero temperatures. There's almost no user workarounds available besides warming up the batteries.
As with any lithium based battery.
I am charging my Model S as we speak at 10amp 230V in about -19C here in Norway :)
My cold record was a mountain supercharger at about -27C, was a little slower the first 10-12 minutes, then no difference.
I agree. The person in the article tried two different superchargers and had the same problem at both. This sounds like a fault with some system ok this particular car.
A broken fuel pump in an ICE car wouldn’t mean they can’t handle the cold.
This is likely a total coincidence.
EVs and hybrids are better, but not by much. Replacing a private car with another private car, regardless of engine isn't as useful as removing that car form the road all together.
EVs only give off about 30% more carbon than rail per passenger-km (on current UK electricity mix). And they are significantly more versatile! Carbon efficiency will at least double in most areas as we move to greener grids, without people needing to get new cars.
https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html
Don't confuse disliking cars with environmentalism!
There's just no way to keep current use of private cars and achieve climate goals. Even if EVs would be magically twice as efficient as they are, just having a car is disastrous to the future of our planet, hence we should put efforts into reducing the need for cars, rather than trying to shave a few grams of particulate matter.
Also, I'm not just talking about tailpipes. EVs are better from a carbon perspective over the whole life of the car, including both manufacturing and use.
The only way to achieve our climate goals is to actually reduce carbon emissions. It's not necessary to eliminate private cars to do this. I think we should invest in plenty of other transit types that are proven to lower carbon emissions. But cars aren't going away and they don't need to.
It's a false choice between "reducing the need for cars" and "making cars more efficient". We can do both, but EVs are going to be a major part of reducing carbon emissions for personal transport.
There are ~1.5billion vehicles worldwide (2019)
A Tesla apparently has 8kg worth of battery lithium per vehicle.
That's 12,000,000 tonnes of lithium.
The reserves worldwide are 14,000,000 tonnes
(End of Google info)
So once the whole world is on EV, we are either reducing cars or pulling from the ocean.
Only one of those options is doable by a politician and they will 100% take the easy route. Every single time.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1253739/lithium-reserves...
Politicians, for the most part, fail to do anything well. This will be no exception. So how do they reach the goal?
Outlaw ICE vehicles.
Slowly but surely you will see less and less cars on the road. The income needed to own a car will go up. Any government incentives will be eaten by increasing prices (as happened with Ford not even a week after a rebate was announced.)
Just a guess of course.
Additionally, someone buying 4 or 5 new electric vehicles is not a problem. Unless they put the old car in a landfill, that will still replace 4 or 5 gas cars on the road as they are resold down the line. The carbon costs of producing them are already factored in!
The smaller (30 mile) battery will go through more cycles (at a higher wear cycle) more quickly. Mechanical maintenance o(oil changes, coolant) increases total cost of ownership.
They are a stepping stone but a really, really good one in my view.
EVs are the compromise!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-c8AUeKs5c
Admittedly, I felt a little smug as I drove by them in my toasty warm inside sedan with a V8, I feel less smug when I go to put gas in it ;-).
I've driven a V8 powered sedan for almost 20 years, and shortly they won't be made anymore, so I custom ordered one of the last new ones I could order.
My snarkiness aside, my wife has an identical car with a v6, her car gets around 25mpg combined, I get around 20ish, we can get similar numbers for highway driving though, the difference falls off some at speed.
Both of us have 2021 Chrysler 300's - mine with a Hemi and hers with the Pentastar V6.
In any case, I like my car because it's fun to drive, and it was the first time I've ever ordered a new car, so I got exactly the car I wanted. I expect it'll be the last ICE car I'll ever purchase, so I wanted it to be exactly what I wanted.
When people make extraordinarily bad choices I'm vocal about it no matter who it is. "One last time just for fun" is a poor reason to do just a bit more damage to our environment
Excess sugar intake has been linked to the development of type 2 diabetes independent of weight gain
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2013/02/98777/quantity-sugar-food-...