Sometimes it's about the journey. The original post is full of exceptional photos of crows and fun anecdotes that go way beyond the simple answer to the thread title.
agree, the photos are really good and seem to capture a piece of their individual personalities. i just got a bit of a chuckle at the title, because you can befriend any animal with this one simple trick ;)
> “There are three possible parts to a date, of which at least two must be offered: entertainment, food, and affection. It is customary to begin a series of dates with a great deal of entertainment, a moderate amount of food, and the merest suggestion of affection. As the amount of affection increases, the entertainment can be reduced proportionately. When the affection IS the entertainment, we no longer call it dating. Under no circumstances can the food be omitted.” — JM
i kind of love the fact that posting fediverse links on hacker news is coming to be almost as common as posting twitter links. and i already read this, because one of the mastodon accounts i follow boosted this into my timeline.
I just wish there were an html interface to read mastadon posts. Something like nitter.net is for twitter. Right now to read them I have to use the general RSS feed and then find the post. And the .rss feature is only available on some implementations of mastadon.
I don't understand this: I clicked on the link and saw the thread in my browser. What's the barrier? It's no different to sharing a link to a forum or mailing list archive really
I can vouch for this approach. I lived in the territory of a couple of ravens (close relatives of crows; just as smart and twice as large) and it took me maybe 18 months to build a close relationship.
I started out just talking to them and throwing whole peanuts (roasted, unsalted) on the ground while I was doing it. They looked at me warily and did not come close. Later on, the peanuts would disappear, but I was never sure why. This period lasted months.
Eventually they would come down when I threw a peanut and approach it warily. If it was closer than 15 or 20 feet to me, I'd have to back away to give them enough room. Then I could throw another peanut near (but not at!) them and they'd walk over to get it.
After many more months of this (six, I'd guess) they were somewhat less wary of me and would hang out on our back fence sometimes. So we worked out a ritual. I would place a piece of food on the fence rail and back away; they'd hop over and get it. As he suggested, I would talk with them as I did it. I'm sure the words didn't matter, but I suspect the tone did, and it helped me focus on being soothing with voice, body language, and behavior.
Toward the end of my time there we got so that one of them would take high-value food, like a chicken bone with bits of meat left on it, straight out of my hand. That one, who we called George, would happily sit pretty close to me after eating. Out of arm's reach, of course; they were still a bit wary. But it would settle down and chill out. Truly a magical experience to just hang out with a big, smart bird like that. You looking at one another, both trying to figure out exactly what the other's deal is. And me, at least, knowing, that I'd never fully know.
My amateur theory is that talking makes you less likely to be a predator. You basically say “here I am”, Predators tend to be quiet and sneak up on their prey. I think the tone does indeed help somewhat in my experience.
Yes, of course. Your tone has to convey not only, "I am not a predator" but also "I do not perceive you as a threat, and so the purpose of my vocalization is not to scare you away because I perceive you as a threat, and if you come close I am likely to try to harm you in order to defend myself."
In nature, the Bayesian prior on an entity that is not a member of your species, or even your tribe, seeking an interaction with you that will ultimately be to your benefit is very, very low.
Felis Catus: OK, stubclaws, listen up. You're going to toil the fields and by the sweat of your brow fill up a barn to attract my mice. Got that? Agriculture, Architecture, the works? Good. I'd explain to you how to make laser pointers for chasing, but I doubt you'd understand ... your kind always has to work things out for themselves, anyway. Now go forth and do your best to hold this covenant, you inflexible hairless monkey.
Felis Catus: Correction, human. It was always my keyboard. You were just using it without my permission, and I reappropriated it when I felt like it. Now, go get me some wet cat food for your slanderous outburst before I send you to the cat food factory permanently.
Sorry, nope. Had one of my replies called a "nonsensical answer produced by an AI" in a different thread, so I done did my best to outpace the machine with that one.
When 082... was jus' a little baby, sittin' on their papa's knee
Well they picked up a keyboard and a little CRT
Said keyboard gon' be the death of me, lord, lord
Keyboard gon' be the death of me
Hummingbirds I've noticed are very curious about other creatures. To a fault even, mantises will sometimes exploit this to catch hummingbirds (they are much more powerful than you might expect). I don't know if this is universal across hummingbird species/groups, but I'm able get very close to them by just patiently standing still by the feeder for 10 or 15 minutes, and they'll start investigating me.
I have noticed this about hummingbirds as well. We have a feeder on our deck and if you are out there when they are feeding expect to receive an inspection. I like to think the thought in their brain is “are you a flower?”
I’ve also had a hummingbird come within a few centimeters of landing on my hand while mounting biking (stopped, of course). I credit my new-at-the-time bright red gloves for that interaction.
I can go outside holding a feeder and as long as I stand still, after about a minute the hummers will feed while I'm holding the thing. Brave little birds.
Nasty little birds. We put out a feeder, and they battle each other for it, even when there's plenty for all. It's a good thing they don't decide to gang up on humans; they could do a lot of damage while we're still looking at where they were a hundred wingbeats ago.
My sister had one land on her finger and point with its head to which flowers it wanted her to move her hand to. This was without a feeder, but in an area with lots of people around (at a winery).
Growing up my great grandmother kept about 3 dozen hummingbird feeders near her back porch at her farm so she could watch the hummingbirds as they fed. She easily went through 4 gallons of sugar water per day. I was told as a kid that she had been documented as having altered the migration paths of several flocks of hummingbirds because she had been maintaining her feeders for over 30 years at the time of her death and they would remember where her farm was.
They would flit past your head when you went out to refill them, but they seldom went more than a few feet away. You could stand under under the feeders and after a few minutes, if you were calm enough, they would start be willing to land on you and rest, or lick off any syrup you had gotten on your hands.
There are quite a few symbiotic relationships in nature.
There are several examples where small birds, mammals, fish, or even some invertebrates clean much larger animals. The exchange straightforward, large animal gets clean smaller one eats the parasites, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_symbiosis
> There are quite a few symbiotic relationships in nature.
Yes, of course, but unless such a relationship is already established the odds are very much against a random encounter between different species being mutually beneficial.
The interesting bit around cleaning is the relationships are between individual animals rather than being species wide. Some species of fish for example will mix in removal of parasites with drinking some blood and larger animals eating the cleaners also happens.
I have an amateur theory that strange wildlife, unlike strange people, are made much more comfortable by avoiding eye contact.
Parent comment would explain this observation: predators gaze upon their prey.
(flipping the arrows around, I've seen the advice to dance tango, not so much with "snappiness" as is popularly supposed, but in a predatory manner: slow stalking, interspersed with rapid pounces)
This is definitely true for dogs/canids, eye contact is a signal of dominance and/or aggression. It’s common advice to soften your glance if you’re approaching an unfamiliar or potentially aggressive dog. It’s also helpful to make more direct eye contact when establishing you’re in charge when training them.
I’ve also noticed with many birds that they prefer indirect attention. This includes not just eye contact, but pointing a camera (or really anything) in their direction. Which unfortunately means I have very little photographic evidence of the many times I’ve had birds just hanging around being pleasant companions for a while.
The birds around here don't stick around long enough to let me earn their trust, but I can get pretty close to the deer, rabbits, and squirrels just by pointing the camera off to my side so I'm standing perpendicular and appear to be focused on stuff on the ground instead of them.
Oh damn I meant to mention rabbits! At least the ones around me don’t even mind if I point a camera at them so long as I’m looking another way. So I have lots of good blurry or poorly aimed rabbit photos. They really do seem to believe that if they go totally still nothing can see them until proven otherwise. And maybe they’re right, I almost always have to tell my pup “there’s a bun!” And even then it’s usually after I’ve directed her chase before she sees the fleeing things.
You see a rabbit mostly against the grass or bush it's hiding around. A dog sees it against all the scattered terrain behind it. It's amazing how much difference an extra 4-5 feet of height makes for picking thigs out of a background.
This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, but I actively try to get my pup to see the buns around her and she stops seeing them when they stand still even if she had already seen them. She’s a very smart pup, but has a distinct bunny blindness!
Preference for eye contact varies with culture (among other factors). While people in a place like USA might regard a person who avoids eye contact as sneaky or untrustworthy, people in a place like Japan are more likely to regard direct eye contact as a sign that they are distrusted by the person.
I have read this somewhere, not sure where, but by someone very much in touch with nature. He called it the "lost car keys" approach. Always approach animals as if looking for your car keys on the ground: avoiding eye contact, and not in a straight line.
(I volunteer at a Raptor conservancy). Totally. Making eye contact with a big predator generally means either ‘I want to eat you’ or ‘I want to make love to you’. But you also have to maintain situational awareness, to avoid getting a clout on the head from some big talons
Makes sense to me. Crows have caught me tree climbing under them during their evening flights to the communal roost, the result was always a chaotic mess. They just couldn't leave it alone. Without fail, eventually one crow would notice and start the alarm call, then the hundreds of crows arriving at the situation would break off flight and begin mobbing as well.
Great video. Were you scared? I once walked under some trees in which many crows were roosting. Scared the crap out of me. I thought they were going to attack. Maybe they had young and wanted to protect them, I don’t know, but I ran.
I sometimes end up crossing paths with birds while rock climbing. You try to avoid them where possible (especially if they are protected/endangered) but it's not always possible to spot them from the ground. Peregrines will warn you by swooping past you really fast, even if you are 10s of meters to the side of their nest.
It can sometimes end up in a weird kind of stand off, where they can see your path is through their nest or perch but they don't really know what your intent is so you just end up staring at each other. The most aggressive I came across was a big seagull, which I'm pretty sure was protecting it's eggs since it clearly wasn't going to move, thankfully that line was easy enough that I could just figure out an alternate way around. Climbing you also sometimes get to see some of the horrific remains from the predators - One time towards the end of covid lockdowns some peregrines had reclaimed a pinnacle due to the unusual absence of climbers. When I got to the top it looked like a sacrificial temple, filled with the carcases of all the other bird species, not to mention the bees nest en route, that one was a mini adventure.
For a second I thought I was dead. But, when I heard all the noise, I knew they were cops. Only cops talk that way. If they'd been wiseguys, I wouldn't have heard a thing. I would've been dead.
I love this. Thank you for sharing. I’ve always found crows and ravens to be majestic birds, even with the reputations they have. Thank you for being kind to them.
I talk to them and throw cashews at them from my balcony. They have gotten pretty close in a matter of weeks, despite having a cat (she is scared of them tbh and I think they know). I also leave some nuts on the railing near my back door for them to grab (make sure they watch me place them) so they can get them when I go inside (my cat loves watching this and the little birds). Though sometimes they do a quick grab if there's some distance. It really is a lot of fun and to watch their behavior patterns. For example, there will often only be one or two on the ground and checking things out while more in the trees or roofs. Once they realize those two are not dying from the food you feed there's a few caws and more come down. The spotters are the ones that make the quick grabs at my railing and it took a bit for this to happen so I think they trust me some. In a different place I lived one crow came right up to me, just out of arm's reach, for sunflower seeds. They really are smart and friendly creatures. They'll even talk back a bit.
on serious note, interesting. i have blind spots in the eye, due to an auto immune type condition. since the blind spots are near central vision, brain tends to 'fill' or predict whats there. so i tend to sometimes misread words.
If you have a pet parrot you can get a more personal glimpse of their intelligence. We have a cockatiel and it’s interesting to get to know another intelligent species from a different branch of the tree.
You will also get a more personal glimpse at their tyranny. I type this as my conure is having a fit because I wouldn’t share any French fries with him.
Never know. And so interesting that they are dinosaurs, literally. They will probably win in the end with our own oh-so-clever Warming pushing us out. Dinos the winners.
> I can vouch for this approach. I lived in the territory of a couple of ravens (close relatives of crows; just as smart and twice as large)
Here's the thing. You're suggesting a raven is as intelligent as a crow. Are they in the same family? Yes, Corvus. But scientists who study crows, will tell say, specifically, crows are smarter than ravens. But it would be okay for either of us to just admit we're wrong, you know?
My grandmother used to do the same with squirrels and chipmunks - but only leave the nuts out for the first few times, then she'd bring them back in after waiting for a bit. They immediately figured it out and would come down to get them on future attempts. I imagine the same would work with crows.
I belong to an ancestor worshiping culture(தமிழ்|Tamizh), Crows have very high reverence here as they're believed to be carrying our ancestors soul.
So each day many people here feed the crows first with rice before breakfast and on new moon day many undergo fasting, Make special food and give it to the crows first.
Obviously crows , Extraordinarily intelligent as they are keep perfect timings for their food and seems to know the lunar phases; No wonder we revere them.
Tamilian here. There was a crow that would come and insist upon getting Biscuits only from my mother, pre covid. It would sit on the balcony handrail and caw until she goes to the fridge, then quietly wait for the biscuit, take it from her hand and leave. If she's out of Biscuits and gives it something else it would become quite offended, refuse the food and sit there cawing pitieously. I learned that Biscuits are bad for them and told her. She tried to change to curd rice - it started to accept that if it was hot and fresh.
Of course like you said, we caw for them and give them food during festivals and anniversaries of deaths of ancestors.
I've been trying to befriend crows, but it's a slow process. When I go for a walk I usually take a rich tea biscuit with me. I put it on a post where a crow sometimes rests.
At first, it was more-or-less luck as to who and when a crow found it. But they began to catch on, and I'm pretty sure at least one was waiting for me. They were either on the post, or nearby. They fly off when you approach, of course. But they get the idea, and I know they're watching. I try to step back, but they need quite a large distance before they'll try to take the biscuit. Crows seem to know that humans are always up to something. The probably know that it's always plans within plans when it comes to those damn hairless apes. Is he really being generous, or is he running some inscrutable psyop?
The problem is that I haven't been consistent the last few days, so the crows lose interest.
A few days ago, mind, there was a crow sitting on the fence a few feet from the house. He flew off as I left the house, but he didn't seem particularly alarmed. He flew up to the top of a conifer quite a few yards away. But I knew he was watching. So I put a biscuit on a post and went for a walk. When I came back the biscuit was gone.
I guess what I like about crows is that they're really smart, so you're always left wondering as to how much they've cottoned on to and how much of it is just blind coincidence.
It's an order of magnitude easier to befriend crows in the city, as opposed to the country. The more rural you are located, the more time it will take you to befriend a crow.
The first one is the hardest. They'll start bringing friends, eventually. They like they rituals and consistency -- you've already discovered this. They also lose interest if you don't keep it up regularly.
Don't look straight at crows, they don't like it at all. When they're ready to be your friend, they'll put themselves into your field of vision. I was able to communicate vocally with crows and get them to respond before they were comfortable being face-to-face friends with me.
My mother had been feeding birds for a while. The local crows quickly realized that she's a soft-touch, so they sit on the garden fence outside her window. If she sees them, she throws something to them. It started with one female bird who eventually brought her young. She would take treats and feed them to her annoyingly loud offspring before eventually having something for herself. My mother got a kick out of this. The matriarch would eventually come to her window and tap on it. But if my mother looked at her directly she'd fly back to the fence. But she could open the window "nonchalantly" and throw treats without scaring her off as long as she didn't look straight at her. Other crows have noticed this. She now has a dozen or so hanging around. The original bird sits looking into her bedroom window in the morning waiting for her to get out of bed, and then flies around to the kitchen to tap on it. You see, there's competition now.
With other wildlife, changing silhouette can make a big difference in approach bubbles. Being in a kayak or on a horse allows much closer approach before flight.
My wife set up a bird feeder on our floor to ceiling glass windows in our living room -- it is a plexiglass module with suction cups. It was nice seeing the birds, but it was really entertaining watching the squirrels trying to get the food.
At first she tried to thwart the them, but in no time started recognizing the squirrels as individuals and noticing their personality and behavioral differences, and gave them names. After that, she stopped buying birdseed and began stocking the feeder with various nuts, and setting up some ramps and jumping obstacles, but not to any crazy level, just something to watch.
They recognized her as the person that fills the feeder with nuts. Once she tried hand feeding them it took only a couple weeks for the first brave one, then other squirrels didn't want to be left out and came up to her too. When the feeder goes empty, they'll stand on it and peer into the living room to see if she is around. Once they make eye contact, they hop down and run to the door to get fed.
My wife has some chronic health issues that mostly keep her housebound, except for doctor appointments. The squirrels have been a godsend -- even on her worst days, the squirrels make her smile and bring her joy at random times throughout the day.
This is just wonderful. I'm so glad that your wife has something to keep her going on her bad days. My wife passed away at 46 years old, and the years leading up to her death were very hard. I learned that sometimes it's the smallest things that really bring joy- not things. Interacting with nature whether by observation or active participation is a wonderful thing.
A comment like this shouldn't go without a reply. Saying "sorry for your loss" always seems inadequate, so here's a brief recollection instead. A few months ago, in one of the covid lock downs when social distancing was a thing, I was walking in a park. About 200 metres away I noticed a woman walking a small dog, possibly a puppy. The woman had stopped to watch the dog, something was going on. Then i realised the dog was playing with a magpie. The magpie would hop up to the dog then flap off when the dog bounded over. Then the magpie lay on its back and let the dog sniff it before kicking its legs and flapping its wings, making the dog bounce in delight. The woman crouched nearby watching. I've no idea if any of them noticed me. It went on for at least 5 minutes before i had to leave. A wonderfully surreal, poignant moment during the pandemic. Seems like aeons ago now.
How did you cope with the loss ? My wife has one metastasis on a vertebrae from a breast cancer that I tought defeated... it was almost the fourth year of cancer free scans when we had the terrible news, a month ago. Even though she's is on expensive drugs and will receive bleeding edge radio surgery in January... I fear that we don't have that much time left together and I don't know how I will cope with that loss.
Oh man, I am so, so terribly sorry to hear this. You both must be absolutely devastated, both individually and as a couple. Clear open communication, just listening to each other, and accepting that you're both grieving for the loss of her health and for the awful effects it is bound to have.
My wife was sick for several years before she passed, and for the last 14 months, we knew it was coming. The main thing that got us both through the ordeal was finding joy in everyday life, wherever we could. My wife was amazing at that, and that had a lot to do with her faith too. I'd be remiss to leave that out. That's also been my coping mechanism in almost every way. But it's not a blind faith that she "went to a better place" or just listening to what some pastor says. My faith is fully informed, and I've chosen it after deep Bible study.
I know that may not be the answer you're looking for, but it's the truth. Without my faith I'd have been wrecked. It was hard enough as-is, but the religious organization I belong to has excellent written articles as well as videos that have gotten me through some really, really rough times... the kind you don't know even exist until yougo through them. Foremost however is my relationship with the true God. He has helped me immensely and brought tremendous relief.
This isn't a platform for proselytizing, and I respect that, so I've limited my answer to an honest answer to your question. There are resources that I'd love to share with you that will help you even from a secular standpoint. If you'd like, email me at my hn user at gmail. Take care, my friend. You're welcome to reach out to me any time.
> They recognized her as the person that fills the feeder
Even songbirds do this with my parents. If they're outside and the feeder is empty, they'll perch on the closest (but not too close) spot and squack until my parents move, then they'll perch a little closer to the feeder and repeat if my parents follow them.
If they're not outside, they'll sit outside the door or even fly into the garage if it is open and chirp and squack until they come out.
It's amusing and more than a little impressive to see since songbirds aren't much associated with intelligence like corvids are.
My parents had one of those near a window. The squirrel would jump on and go for a ride, banging against the window (leaving the most entertaining skid marks). The payoff: this would shake seeds out of the feeder which the squirrel could then eat off of the ground.
I'm glad these squirrels bring joy to your wife c:
This reminds me of my University days, where peeps would go and eat under large banyan trees. There would be a number of squirrels who'd hang out and be fed by students, and as a result these squirrels would get gutsy. A friend had a squirrel leap onto their table and steal fries while they weren't looking!
Thank! I used to try fight the squirrels with cayenne pepper (birds don't have receptor that can be activated by capsaicin)... I should try to befriend them instead.
My friend who does this warns to be careful - if you stop feeding them, you've taught them there's food in the house, and they will find a way to break in.
I didn’t know what grackles were, so I did a quick Google search and encountered my avian nemeses!
These bastards are such a nuisance that they’ve made me fear birds. During their nesting season they’ll repeatedly dive bomb innocent walkers-by and threaten to peck at their ears.
Any tips to appease these fascists of the sky would be appreciated.
You probably don’t want to befriend grackles - they are absolutely magnificent to look at but they crap twice their weight every hour, they chirp to each other around the clock, and if you are feeding them they will bring dozens or hundreds of their closest friends to the party, and they won’t leave.
If you want a healthy snack for crows that they adore, my local murders (~100 crows) go absolutely nuts for cashews. We put them at the bottom of our peanut can, because as soon as we get the cashews out they will outright refuse peanuts and forego any sort of social etiquette and sometimes even try to steal from each other, so we only start feeding them cashews when most of the murder is sated.
IMX cows (they are all domestic, locally) treat anyone with thumbs as a potential source of food.
They like licking hands and under-the-chin or cheek scritches; move slowly and talk, and if they're skeptical try crouching to make yourself smaller. (but don't make mothers suspect you're after their calves!)
I don't think his comment meant "edibility rises linearly with age." I think it meant "it reaches a peak" and implicitly "and then declines from there."
Having heard stories of my homesteading great-grandparents being chased 'round and 'round their sod house by a steer while screaming at their significant other to "open the **ing door, for **'* sake!" I'm gonna stick with befriending crows.
(Cows give birth to steers, that's what not to like.)
I play bamboo flute and started playing the same song after feeding a crow that would come by my house, now I can just play the song and I will hear the crow respond from far away and then quickly fly over.
My Mum did this with magpies in Australia. She lives alone in a small rural town and started feeding these two magpies, that seemed to like her garden, with small pieces of meat.
Over the course of a couple of years, the magpie pair even brought their chicks along for a free feed. At one point there were six or seven regular breakfast guests.
One of the original magpies would practically eat our of my mother's hand, the other wasn't quite so bold.
Sadly, they stopped coming at one point. My mum heard from a neighbour that a large number of local birds, including magpies, had been poisoned. I guess that's what happened to them.
That's pretty cool. Aussie magpies have a ferocious reputation[1] so kudos to your Mum.
We have lots of magpies where I live and I've always wanted to make friends with them but they're both timid and obviously pretty smart so very hard to get near here.
The technique I have used for the magpies in my backyard is: leave them alone. Eventually they learn that you are not a threat and quite happily continue their everyday business even if you're nearby, without turning into a demanding pest.
Similar to me, my experience has been that you barely have to feed them for them to become comfortable being around you. I had a couple at my last house, and they'd stand ~1 metre away whilst I dug furiously with shovels, picks. I remember one time one landed next to me and snatched half a sandwich from my hand and took off.
They get a bad rep as they swoop, however, they're fascinating and beautiful animals; from their social structures of forming lifelong relationships or forming gangs[1], to their ability to mimic[1].
The magpie outside my place does perch on my arm to eat food, but also engages in a friendly game of "guess which hand the food is in", by giving a gentle peck (I flip the food back and forth between my hands like a carnival game then close the food in one hand quickly).
I first read the headline as “how to befriend cows”, and that seemed a lot more interesting!
I’m no friend of crows (specifically, magpies), having been attacked by them in the past. They’re also considered a non-native, invasive species in my country.
Just from my experience as a cyclist in Amsterdam, crows are amazingly intelligent. They actually participate in traffic, and know the difference between bicycles, motor vehicles and light rail (they will get out of the way just-in-time for the first two, and happily ignore the latter if they're outside the profile of the train set).
Pigeons, on the other hand, are the species that gave birth to the term 'bird brain'. They will happily sit in front of oncoming traffic forever, then take evasive action that is, like, the opposite of the optimal strategy...
Pigeons may be dumb as bricks but I’ve never seen one hit by a car. When I’m driving I think I’m going to hit them but they always bail. Credit where credit is due!
One day I found, in the parking lot of HEB supermarket, a beautiful, lightweight circular pattern approximately a foot across that appeared to be fabricated. Closer inspection revealed it was a pigeon that had been run over repeatedly over many days.
Day and night the sun and cold air dry the pigeon mat. The smashed meat and connective tissue act as a protein glue to hold the mat together. Each vehicle presses, mixes, and spreads the mat into, on average, a very light colorful circular feather pattern (feathers tend to retain their structure more than bone, possibly b/c of their flexibility) that, once thin enough, wafts to and fro in the parking lot winds before settling gently to the ground.
I first thought to spray them with a waterproof coating and sell them as "Pigeon Frisbees" but alas, they were aerodynamically unsuitable (they rode the air like cattail seeds), and so, in the end I asked HEB parking lot employees to consider cleaning the remains of dead pigeons as a favor to their customers. The parking lots are more pleasant these days.
Plenty of pigeons are killed by cars, esp. females resting in empty parking spots, where they sometimes sleep.
Obligatory Seinfeld bit (George doesn't slow down for some pigeons, they don't evade, he runs them over and his girlfriend thinks he's a butcher because of it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPCZtrac-Ss
Steller Jays are also approachable. I'm a camp host. One started aggressively seeking food from campers. I took a close look at it and saw the one of the recent forest fires had damaged its feathers. It was desperate for food. I respected that bird. It did what it had to do to survive. I started feeding it. Next year when I returned to the campground, it showed up within an hour calling for food, and its feathers had been replaced.
The Stellers are a lot more shy than the scrub jays. Handfulls of peanuts in our front yard now and then leads to quite the show, with Stellers, Scrubs, and Crows all gathering around. Plus a gray squirrel or two.
I too have enticed/befriended a group of Steller's Jays at my weekend cabin. I've always put out seeds for casual bird watching and about two years ago started giving them peanuts as well. I make sure to give a distinctive whistle for that extra Pavlovian effect. Many are quite accustomed to me, will come within 5-8 feet to snatch a tossed peanut. Over the last year, they often greet me when I drive up with some calls, or usually come when I whistle if they're not around. The two resident black Abert's squirrels also come up for the peanuts, often by my feet.
They are also several ravens in the area, often staying at tree top level, 60-70 ft. I've never been able to get their attention. even with peanuts. I'm guessing they just don't see the action at ground level, too many trees, or feel safer higher up.
Why though? There are dozens of crows in my neighborhood. If I befriend crows will they come to expect food from me? What about the pigeons and seagulls? Will they come to resent me?
My policy on neighborhood birds has always been neutrality.
You can eventually train crows to bring you stuff. I’ve read stories of crows being trained to deliver money or cigarettes. My favorite was a guy who used to hang out with crows on his balcony when he smoked, and he had to move when he quit smoking because the crows would just bring him packs of cigarettes.
I grow up in a small village in eastern europe. It is amazing that you can befriend most of the animals. Chickens are too primitive for that, but cows turned out to be quite intelligent. You can do it the same as with crows, but you should start with a younger animal. You may bring a young cow something to eat and after some time it will recognize you. And they really love to be hand carded (this thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carding). Also remember that cows are quite dangerous (as most of the huge farm animals).
Cows can indeed be dangerous. We raise a few dairy cows here; they know us and eat out of our hands. When one of our 1000lb girls was in heat, she tried to mount my wife, and it was sheer luck that she escaped with only a sore leg.
There are plenty of videos of chickens and children getting along famously. The chicken running to greet the school bus, enjoying a cuddle, playing chase, enjoying being petted.
Heck, there are videos of lizards and fish enjoying being petted. Most every animal seems to enjoy being touched gently.
Yea, generally when people feed animals it is harmful to the animal or potentially dangerous for humans in a variety of ways or you turn the animals into pests.
Is there something special about crows where these things aren't so much a factor?
I think a lot of it is the high intelligence of crows. If you feed say, wild deer or other animals they become dependent on humans to survive or end up sticking around human areas. Crows are already everywhere and their intelligence means that if the food source stops, they can still just do their thing. It doesn't disrupt the ecosystem though it can make them into an annoyance for neighbors.
The more we learn about crows, their behaviors etc the more we realize that we severely understate their intelligence with each new finding.
Crows are generally a pest inhibitor, given that they will eat carrion before less desirable "pests" like rats get to it.
They also already are adopted to living in human cities. Usually in parks where they can do some traditional hunting intermixed with trash collecting and some direct feeding. But they are usually not reliant on the later and will move on in Winter if the other sources dry up.
Turns out it's okay nutritionally to feed ducks (for example) fresh (thawed frozen) peas. Just not bread. Changing their habits might be a different consideration.
I've seen a woodpecker (I think it was) and a crow combine to challenge a falcon, in Edmonton repeatedly; although not in the air. The competition was for tree tops in the ravine and lasted a while with the smaller birds zooming up to harrass the sitting falcon then diving down to lower perches the falcon had trouble getting at. Eventually the falcon had enough and left.
from India, my wife feeds squirrels, crows and pigeon on kitchen window, they recognise her and wait for her to put food.my wife only feeds them freshly cooked food or raw rice and they have varied taste. they kind of avoid me as I am stranger to them.
I haven’t made a point to befriend crows, but I’ve very much made a point to establish mutual trust and respect. When I moved my pup from Saint Paul (which had surprisingly few if any crows) back to my long time home of Seattle (which, I’ve only since learned, if famous for its crows), I had to teach pup not to chase crows. She actually has learned the difference between crows (and Steller’s jays) and other birds.
And the crows definitely know us. And recognized us when we moved to another neighborhood. They know we give them a wide berth if they’re doing their thing on the ground whenever we can, crossing the road or splitting the middle wherever possible. And they calmly move aside when they see that we can’t. Sometimes one will see us and (I think) find a perch to announce our approach to the others. At first this seemed like a warning, but now it feels more like a friendly heads up.
I don’t regularly give them food, but I did sometimes leave little stuff for them at a designated place outside my last house. It was an accident the first time, I had left a little cup of salsa out on top of my yard/food waste bin and forgotten it was there until I saw a crow fly off with it. After that, any deliberate offering left there was swept up within minutes.
I’d like to make better friends with them, but most of my encounters are with pup in tow. While she definitely understands they’re different than other birds, she still needs fairly strict control to keep her behaved while we pass by. So friendly respect at a distance feels more appropriate.
Interesting. Also, Mastodon threads seem to be much easier to follow that Twitter... Twitter feels like a confusing mess of replies in any order. I could be wrong, but this felt much more ordered, and therefore made more sense to me.
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[ 5.2 ms ] story [ 240 ms ] threadall hail decentralized social media!
https://fediscience.org/@ct_bergstrom/109571409346371116 -> https://fediscience.org/@ct_bergstrom.rss
My browser displays RSS natively well enough. It just can't display mastadon pages even with JS on because it's old.
The api interface through https://fediscience.org/api/v1/statuses/109571409346371116 is handy but it doesn't seem to give the full post.
I started out just talking to them and throwing whole peanuts (roasted, unsalted) on the ground while I was doing it. They looked at me warily and did not come close. Later on, the peanuts would disappear, but I was never sure why. This period lasted months.
Eventually they would come down when I threw a peanut and approach it warily. If it was closer than 15 or 20 feet to me, I'd have to back away to give them enough room. Then I could throw another peanut near (but not at!) them and they'd walk over to get it.
After many more months of this (six, I'd guess) they were somewhat less wary of me and would hang out on our back fence sometimes. So we worked out a ritual. I would place a piece of food on the fence rail and back away; they'd hop over and get it. As he suggested, I would talk with them as I did it. I'm sure the words didn't matter, but I suspect the tone did, and it helped me focus on being soothing with voice, body language, and behavior.
Toward the end of my time there we got so that one of them would take high-value food, like a chicken bone with bits of meat left on it, straight out of my hand. That one, who we called George, would happily sit pretty close to me after eating. Out of arm's reach, of course; they were still a bit wary. But it would settle down and chill out. Truly a magical experience to just hang out with a big, smart bird like that. You looking at one another, both trying to figure out exactly what the other's deal is. And me, at least, knowing, that I'd never fully know.
In nature, the Bayesian prior on an entity that is not a member of your species, or even your tribe, seeking an interaction with you that will ultimately be to your benefit is very, very low.
Felis Catus: OK, stubclaws, listen up. You're going to toil the fields and by the sweat of your brow fill up a barn to attract my mice. Got that? Agriculture, Architecture, the works? Good. I'd explain to you how to make laser pointers for chasing, but I doubt you'd understand ... your kind always has to work things out for themselves, anyway. Now go forth and do your best to hold this covenant, you inflexible hairless monkey.
I’ve also had a hummingbird come within a few centimeters of landing on my hand while mounting biking (stopped, of course). I credit my new-at-the-time bright red gloves for that interaction.
Such as knats and such, which love humans.
So they may be looking for a meal, too.
They would flit past your head when you went out to refill them, but they seldom went more than a few feet away. You could stand under under the feeders and after a few minutes, if you were calm enough, they would start be willing to land on you and rest, or lick off any syrup you had gotten on your hands.
There are several examples where small birds, mammals, fish, or even some invertebrates clean much larger animals. The exchange straightforward, large animal gets clean smaller one eats the parasites, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_symbiosis
Yes, of course, but unless such a relationship is already established the odds are very much against a random encounter between different species being mutually beneficial.
These things are incredible. (Or incredibly mean?)
Parent comment would explain this observation: predators gaze upon their prey.
(flipping the arrows around, I've seen the advice to dance tango, not so much with "snappiness" as is popularly supposed, but in a predatory manner: slow stalking, interspersed with rapid pounces)
I’ve also noticed with many birds that they prefer indirect attention. This includes not just eye contact, but pointing a camera (or really anything) in their direction. Which unfortunately means I have very little photographic evidence of the many times I’ve had birds just hanging around being pleasant companions for a while.
and ... like ... non-strange people?
I must have seemed very novel and sneaky.
https://youtu.be/RuOVY4r9ipg
Sometimes I wonder if I'm already being recognized as "that weird tree guy", even on the ground, and what it would take to test that.
It can sometimes end up in a weird kind of stand off, where they can see your path is through their nest or perch but they don't really know what your intent is so you just end up staring at each other. The most aggressive I came across was a big seagull, which I'm pretty sure was protecting it's eggs since it clearly wasn't going to move, thankfully that line was easy enough that I could just figure out an alternate way around. Climbing you also sometimes get to see some of the horrific remains from the predators - One time towards the end of covid lockdowns some peregrines had reclaimed a pinnacle due to the unusual absence of climbers. When I got to the top it looked like a sacrificial temple, filled with the carcases of all the other bird species, not to mention the bees nest en route, that one was a mini adventure.
For a second I thought I was dead. But, when I heard all the noise, I knew they were cops. Only cops talk that way. If they'd been wiseguys, I wouldn't have heard a thing. I would've been dead.
-Henry Hill, Goodfellas
Here's the thing. You're suggesting a raven is as intelligent as a crow. Are they in the same family? Yes, Corvus. But scientists who study crows, will tell say, specifically, crows are smarter than ravens. But it would be okay for either of us to just admit we're wrong, you know?
https://crowadvice.com/crow-vs-raven-intelligence/
So each day many people here feed the crows first with rice before breakfast and on new moon day many undergo fasting, Make special food and give it to the crows first.
Obviously crows , Extraordinarily intelligent as they are keep perfect timings for their food and seems to know the lunar phases; No wonder we revere them.
Of course like you said, we caw for them and give them food during festivals and anniversaries of deaths of ancestors.
At first, it was more-or-less luck as to who and when a crow found it. But they began to catch on, and I'm pretty sure at least one was waiting for me. They were either on the post, or nearby. They fly off when you approach, of course. But they get the idea, and I know they're watching. I try to step back, but they need quite a large distance before they'll try to take the biscuit. Crows seem to know that humans are always up to something. The probably know that it's always plans within plans when it comes to those damn hairless apes. Is he really being generous, or is he running some inscrutable psyop?
The problem is that I haven't been consistent the last few days, so the crows lose interest.
A few days ago, mind, there was a crow sitting on the fence a few feet from the house. He flew off as I left the house, but he didn't seem particularly alarmed. He flew up to the top of a conifer quite a few yards away. But I knew he was watching. So I put a biscuit on a post and went for a walk. When I came back the biscuit was gone.
I guess what I like about crows is that they're really smart, so you're always left wondering as to how much they've cottoned on to and how much of it is just blind coincidence.
The first one is the hardest. They'll start bringing friends, eventually. They like they rituals and consistency -- you've already discovered this. They also lose interest if you don't keep it up regularly.
Don't look straight at crows, they don't like it at all. When they're ready to be your friend, they'll put themselves into your field of vision. I was able to communicate vocally with crows and get them to respond before they were comfortable being face-to-face friends with me.
My mother had been feeding birds for a while. The local crows quickly realized that she's a soft-touch, so they sit on the garden fence outside her window. If she sees them, she throws something to them. It started with one female bird who eventually brought her young. She would take treats and feed them to her annoyingly loud offspring before eventually having something for herself. My mother got a kick out of this. The matriarch would eventually come to her window and tap on it. But if my mother looked at her directly she'd fly back to the fence. But she could open the window "nonchalantly" and throw treats without scaring her off as long as she didn't look straight at her. Other crows have noticed this. She now has a dozen or so hanging around. The original bird sits looking into her bedroom window in the morning waiting for her to get out of bed, and then flies around to the kitchen to tap on it. You see, there's competition now.
Does anyone know if the same goes for corvids?
At first she tried to thwart the them, but in no time started recognizing the squirrels as individuals and noticing their personality and behavioral differences, and gave them names. After that, she stopped buying birdseed and began stocking the feeder with various nuts, and setting up some ramps and jumping obstacles, but not to any crazy level, just something to watch.
They recognized her as the person that fills the feeder with nuts. Once she tried hand feeding them it took only a couple weeks for the first brave one, then other squirrels didn't want to be left out and came up to her too. When the feeder goes empty, they'll stand on it and peer into the living room to see if she is around. Once they make eye contact, they hop down and run to the door to get fed.
My wife has some chronic health issues that mostly keep her housebound, except for doctor appointments. The squirrels have been a godsend -- even on her worst days, the squirrels make her smile and bring her joy at random times throughout the day.
My wife was sick for several years before she passed, and for the last 14 months, we knew it was coming. The main thing that got us both through the ordeal was finding joy in everyday life, wherever we could. My wife was amazing at that, and that had a lot to do with her faith too. I'd be remiss to leave that out. That's also been my coping mechanism in almost every way. But it's not a blind faith that she "went to a better place" or just listening to what some pastor says. My faith is fully informed, and I've chosen it after deep Bible study.
I know that may not be the answer you're looking for, but it's the truth. Without my faith I'd have been wrecked. It was hard enough as-is, but the religious organization I belong to has excellent written articles as well as videos that have gotten me through some really, really rough times... the kind you don't know even exist until yougo through them. Foremost however is my relationship with the true God. He has helped me immensely and brought tremendous relief.
This isn't a platform for proselytizing, and I respect that, so I've limited my answer to an honest answer to your question. There are resources that I'd love to share with you that will help you even from a secular standpoint. If you'd like, email me at my hn user at gmail. Take care, my friend. You're welcome to reach out to me any time.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgeXOVaJo_gl1ZIpbYyPR...
Even songbirds do this with my parents. If they're outside and the feeder is empty, they'll perch on the closest (but not too close) spot and squack until my parents move, then they'll perch a little closer to the feeder and repeat if my parents follow them.
If they're not outside, they'll sit outside the door or even fly into the garage if it is open and chirp and squack until they come out.
It's amusing and more than a little impressive to see since songbirds aren't much associated with intelligence like corvids are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgDa_cpgHWs
This reminds me of my University days, where peeps would go and eat under large banyan trees. There would be a number of squirrels who'd hang out and be fed by students, and as a result these squirrels would get gutsy. A friend had a squirrel leap onto their table and steal fries while they weren't looking!
These bastards are such a nuisance that they’ve made me fear birds. During their nesting season they’ll repeatedly dive bomb innocent walkers-by and threaten to peck at their ears.
Any tips to appease these fascists of the sky would be appreciated.
I can relate
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
They like licking hands and under-the-chin or cheek scritches; move slowly and talk, and if they're skeptical try crouching to make yourself smaller. (but don't make mothers suspect you're after their calves!)
Anyone know about bison?
https://youtu.be/lXKDu6cdXLI
Now that's some cultured dairy!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_schnitzel
No arguments now, this is science damn it!
Although you can open up a new branch of Science.
(Cows give birth to steers, that's what not to like.)
Over the course of a couple of years, the magpie pair even brought their chicks along for a free feed. At one point there were six or seven regular breakfast guests.
One of the original magpies would practically eat our of my mother's hand, the other wasn't quite so bold.
Sadly, they stopped coming at one point. My mum heard from a neighbour that a large number of local birds, including magpies, had been poisoned. I guess that's what happened to them.
We have lots of magpies where I live and I've always wanted to make friends with them but they're both timid and obviously pretty smart so very hard to get near here.
1. https://gplama.com/2022/09/01/the-worst-magpies-ive-ever-enc...
They get a bad rep as they swoop, however, they're fascinating and beautiful animals; from their social structures of forming lifelong relationships or forming gangs[1], to their ability to mimic[1].
[1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-12-11/magies-ten-th...
I’m no friend of crows (specifically, magpies), having been attacked by them in the past. They’re also considered a non-native, invasive species in my country.
Pigeons, on the other hand, are the species that gave birth to the term 'bird brain'. They will happily sit in front of oncoming traffic forever, then take evasive action that is, like, the opposite of the optimal strategy...
Day and night the sun and cold air dry the pigeon mat. The smashed meat and connective tissue act as a protein glue to hold the mat together. Each vehicle presses, mixes, and spreads the mat into, on average, a very light colorful circular feather pattern (feathers tend to retain their structure more than bone, possibly b/c of their flexibility) that, once thin enough, wafts to and fro in the parking lot winds before settling gently to the ground.
I first thought to spray them with a waterproof coating and sell them as "Pigeon Frisbees" but alas, they were aerodynamically unsuitable (they rode the air like cattail seeds), and so, in the end I asked HEB parking lot employees to consider cleaning the remains of dead pigeons as a favor to their customers. The parking lots are more pleasant these days.
Plenty of pigeons are killed by cars, esp. females resting in empty parking spots, where they sometimes sleep.
It kept going, and going, and going, and at the end of the video, he was feeding it cat treats.
They are also several ravens in the area, often staying at tree top level, 60-70 ft. I've never been able to get their attention. even with peanuts. I'm guessing they just don't see the action at ground level, too many trees, or feel safer higher up.
My policy on neighborhood birds has always been neutrality.
Heck, there are videos of lizards and fish enjoying being petted. Most every animal seems to enjoy being touched gently.
Why is that more likely than just "eating the bones, skin, feet, and other animal parts the humans didn't eat" ?
Either is more likely than "hand feeding" since that takes a pretty tamed animal.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/animals-and-us/20200...
Is there something special about crows where these things aren't so much a factor?
The more we learn about crows, their behaviors etc the more we realize that we severely understate their intelligence with each new finding.
They also already are adopted to living in human cities. Usually in parks where they can do some traditional hunting intermixed with trash collecting and some direct feeding. But they are usually not reliant on the later and will move on in Winter if the other sources dry up.
Over the last 5 years I've realized that there are a pair of crows which essentially own the airspace above our house and in front of it.
Each time a hawk or owl or crane flies into this airspace, it will be hounded by these 2 crows. And it happens pretty often.
(One of the crows only has 1 leg - that's why I know its the same 2 each time. We've named him Blackbeard.)
I imagine there is so much of nature we just blindly miss.
And the crows definitely know us. And recognized us when we moved to another neighborhood. They know we give them a wide berth if they’re doing their thing on the ground whenever we can, crossing the road or splitting the middle wherever possible. And they calmly move aside when they see that we can’t. Sometimes one will see us and (I think) find a perch to announce our approach to the others. At first this seemed like a warning, but now it feels more like a friendly heads up.
I don’t regularly give them food, but I did sometimes leave little stuff for them at a designated place outside my last house. It was an accident the first time, I had left a little cup of salsa out on top of my yard/food waste bin and forgotten it was there until I saw a crow fly off with it. After that, any deliberate offering left there was swept up within minutes.
I’d like to make better friends with them, but most of my encounters are with pup in tow. While she definitely understands they’re different than other birds, she still needs fairly strict control to keep her behaved while we pass by. So friendly respect at a distance feels more appropriate.
Edit: also faster.