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Ask HN: What is your system for dirty dishes?

24 points by raymondgh ↗ HN
We have a lot of systematic thinkers here and I’d love to know what you all have come up with. What is your system for the kitchen sink, dishwasher, etc? Did you institute the process or did someone else in your household? Are you happy with it? And of course, any innovative ideas to improve? Happy new year everyone :)

100 comments

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jaggs
Wash them.
Cockbrand
Surprisingly, this. It's a boring, mindless thing to do for the first few hundred times, so you postpone it as far as possible. Of course, the big pile of dirty, possibly disgusting dishes makes it even harder to find the motivation to do it.

After a while, it becomes a routine, and you just do it soon enough that the entire ordeal takes less than 10 minutes. And after even more time, you start enjoying it somewhat, exactly because it's boring and mindless, so it becomes almost meditative. The pleasant sense of achievement afterwards remains, though.

kodyo
Yes, this topic is peak HN.
jstx1
Everything gets washed by hand immediately after being used - during cooking if the recipe allows time for it, or right after the meal at the latest. Very happy with this system, I don't get the habit of piling dirty dishes on top of each other and having a separate time slot for a big wash.
ragingrobot
Same here. The longer it sits, the harder it gets, especially by hand.

> during cooking if the recipe allows time for it

A lot of meats, not just beef, can do with a little resting time. Veggies may need to cool just a little. Perfect for at least getting the cooking utensils, pots and pans washed.

mbg721
My experience with a wok is that you have to do this before the crud dries, or you can't keep the seasoning on it.
cykros
Deglazing a wok at the end goes a long way -- through in half a cup to a cup of water while it's still hot after you've taken the food out, and scrape the bottom gently. Don't put in enough water that it'll cool the pan off entirely, just an amount you might be using when making a sauce. Even if you put off fully cleaning it until after your meal, you'll have saved yourself a bunch of work, on both cleaning and reseasoning (though I always throw a little oil on at the end for good measure).
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PaulHoule
First-in-first out queue for dishes.
mandmandam
I am quite happy with my Dual-Soaper system.

Tools:

1 spray bottle - half dish soap, half water.

1 cup

1 scrubber

The spray bottle is for incidental dishes. By spraying a tiny bit of liquid onto whatever dish you just used, you wash faster while also using less water and soap. Often, you don't even need to get your hands wet. There's no fumbling with slippery dish soap bottles and caps, and no glugs of soap wasted. Try not to inhale the mist though.

The cup is for larger loads. Put a squirt of dish soap in it, then fill with hot / boiled water. Dunk your scrubber into the cup to reload it with hot soapy water whenever necessary.

Some advantages of this: Your sink is kept free - no stoppers needed, or sinks of greasy water with gross food bits in. Also, only a cup or so of water needs to be boiled. The whole process is faster, with less effort.

As others have mentioned, doing dishes immediately is the all around best way to go. The cup and spray bottle really minimize the friction involved in keeping that up throughout the day.

buu709
No kids so YMMV - we put everything in the dishwasher and set it going in the evening. I open it before going to bed and set a fan blowing over the dishes to air dry them and put them away when I wake up in the morning.

I'm also kind of anal about everything being very dry before going into the cupboards.

Debated getting a small radiant heater to install under a cupboard over a drying rack but figured it was going too far.

bombcar
You can also buy dishes that intentionally don’t stack airtight if you get my meaning - so that two plates on top of each other still dry perfectly fine - and then drill some holes in the cabinets.
whycome
At this point I would love a dishwasher that had racks specifically for the dishes that I have. I'm surprised IKEA hasn't jumped on that -- perfectly marrying a set of dishes with a dishwasher rack.
mbg721
My strategy is to wash them or get them into the loading dishwasher as soon as possible, even if getting the pots and pans sorted out delays dinner by a minute or two. I get the best result by treating it as a part of the mise en place of cooking. I'm not especially tidy, and I live with someone who is also not especially tidy, so I learned quickly that if I ignore the dishes, they don't go away.
orobinson
> even if getting the pots and pans sorted out delays dinner by a minute or two

Ha I do this too whereas my partner will happily come in and start cooking despite the kitchen being messy already, much to my chagrin.

mbg721
Yeah, I've been in games-of-chicken of each person tolerating the mess a little more so that the other will deal with it. It's not pretty.
zsolt224
Miele dishwashers have auto dosing of detergent and auto open after they are finished. They are very quiet too.

Remote start via app makes zero sense without auto dosing.

bombcar
Does this mean they’re like a commercial washer and you kid it up with a gallon of detergent once a year or something? Because that would be nice.
boppo1
Dishes are easy if you have a machine. I want to know HN's prostrats on laundry.

Especially sweaty gym laundry for the runners.

bombcar
Washing machines are relatively cheap when considered over the time used - I’m seriously considering getting an additional pair for convenience.

Some of the newer ones have a tiny wash machine stuck to the larger one but I’m not quite convinced yet.

boppo1
Oh I use a washing machine for laundry. But my clothes are forever in baskets because of all the folding and putting away. Takes me an hour.

Also my sweaty gym clothes just hang in/stink up the bathroom lately. Used to let them dry then throw in with otther dirty laundry, but now half my clothes have an irreversible light-but-nasty odor. Only solution seems to be washing my gym clothes right after I've used them, which is a non-starter whether it's manually or machine.

bombcar
A rinse may be good enough - but if your gym clothes are used at a gym that’s gonna be a problem either way (unless you find a gym with washing machines)

A slightly weird substitute might be showering in the gym clothes and then putting them in a non airtight bag for the ride home

boppo1
I workout at home lately and tried the immediately-after rinse once. Just made 'em stink worse. Apparently I just straight-up sweat ammonia.
downboots
Not mine but getting two dishwashers. Alternating their use for storage and cleaning.
bombcar
This works surprisingly well if you have one or two people who regularly use the same dishes. It works horribly badly if you have a family that greatly varies what they use - but the trick then is nobody will arrest you if you wash a clean dish.
m0llusk
Spending a lot of time in coworking offices just getting people to put dishes in the dishwasher instead of the sink is a big advance only the better outfits master.
karp773
Load the dirty dishes and pans into the dishwasher as soon as finished using them. Turn the dishwasher on before going to bed. Take out the clean dishes first thing in the morning.

This is a pretty standard algorithm, I suppose. What is somewhat unusual, I guess, is that, occasionally, I use the dishwasher to wash small appliances like a rice cooker, an electric kettle, or a water filter pitcher. It probably shortens their lifespan but I think it's worth the saved time.

shanebellone
I attempt something similar. I always end up with extra dishes in the sink, so I finish loading them in the evening and run it before bed. I also wash rice cookers and stuff like that. It definitely shortens the lifespan, but I also agree that it's worth the time saved.
cybrexalpha
Let things pile up until I don't have any countertop space to cook, then clean everything in a rush and convince myself that this time™ I'm going to keep it clean.
allthedishes
This, without the last part.

I regularly use all the available dishes, cookware, cutlery, cups, etc until it's ALL used then wash it all at once.

Just a few rules, always rinse right after eating/cooking. Stack _rinsed_ things by type. Never leave anything in the sink so that it's always usable (there's 1 or 2 sinks but plenty of countertop space, it's mindblowing how people argue that the sink should be filled first but I digress).

The actual washing part: I don't have that much stuff so it takes around one hour maybe. Almost always I do it before cooking. I don't mind washing dishes and pots (rinsed already, remember?) but cutlery is the worst part. I actively looked at countertop dishwashers to use exclusively for forks, spoons, knives and maybe cups but I'm not sold yet.

Edit: Maybe I'll add a couple details. I have plastic trays where the dirty stuff lives so that it can be moved around in "modules". Having a flat induction stove helps, stuff gets on there too.

Washing is done in stages by object type somewhat in this order (for each category -> first wash all, then rinse all, obviously):

- glasses (first the nice one if any, then the everyday stuff)

- cups

- stack of rinsed dishes

- food containers and bowls

- cutlery

- cookware

- pot lids

- the plastic trays (wet pots and pans will go on there to dry)

- pots

- pans

TowerTall
Two dishwashers. One for clean and one for dirty.
alexpetralia
I handwash all dishes and can go through maybe 50+ in about 5 minutes. My approach is very efficient.

* First, get every dish wet (so that the food will rinse off easier), just a quick splash of water the surface of every dish.

* Then, soap your sponge and begin cleaning. Stack all dishes off to the side sensibly (plates on bottom, bowls on top, silverware atop that). Don't put your sponge down to rinse off anything.

* After you soap and stack eveything, begin rinsing.

* Put the entire stack (or half of it) under the faucet. The running water from the top will flow down to the bottom, making it easier and faster to wash each subsequent dish.

* Run your hands through each dish as you rinse with water to detect and remove any remaining food.

Finally you are done! This method is great because it reduces redundant action (putting down, picking up sponge) and because it "compounds" others (lets the same water rinse multiple dishes). Also, always remember to wash dishes when you have downtime while cooking - you will have no "prep dishes" to clean by the time you eat, and instead only eating dishes.

28304283409234
My method is almost the same. Dishwashers are a scam.
bsenftner
I really do not understand dish washers: you have to clean the dish 80% before going into the washer, so why not spend the 10 seconds to actually wash the thing? I've timing both and hand washing beats dishwashers by an significant amount every time.
Tidal5474
This is an understanding based on a very incorrect usage of dish washers. Dishes are supposed to go into the dishwasher dirty, without rinsing. Any food garbage is supposed to be scraped off roughly (ie scrape off actual pieces of food but dont worry if a few rice stick to the plate).

Dishwashers save on water and energy. They are convenient for bulk washing of dishes. Dishwashers need to be used correctly to be optimal, just like any other technology.

For a family of 4 with 2 preschoolers it is absolutely necessary to have a dishwasher.

Anyone who is sceptical of dishwashers and their merits needs to watch the Technology Connections video on dishwashers.

28304283409234
> For a family of 4 with 2 preschoolers it is absolutely necessary to have a dishwasher.

We did fine with two preschoolers and no dishwasher.

I maintain that a 'touch once' is always faster than 'pick up, drop, pick up again, drop'.

Furthermore: the second I see friends puzzle about 'where do I put this in this almost full dishwasher', I know they would have been faster doing it by hand.

> Dishwashers save on water and energy.

No, this is not true. I've measured and it depends. The dutch advisory site 'milieucentraal.nl' comes to the same conclusion: it depends.

cykros
I suspect it likely could be if you're spraying everything to rinse it; use a few basins with a good sized rinse with sanitizer or bleach (measured -- ideally use a ph strip to avoid going too far here) and you can use quite a small amount of water for a good number of dishes. Of course, bothering to fill the basins for only a few dishes could be a waste, but when you're doing a whole family worth, you shouldn't need to run the sink while you're cleaning.
antisthenes
> Any food garbage is supposed to be scraped off roughly (ie scrape off actual pieces of food but dont worry if a few rice stick to the plate).

This is the part that takes 80% of the time, because you have to bring every dish to the garbage can that might not necessarily be next to a dishwasher.

> Dishwashers save on water and energy.

Both of which are negligible compared to the amount of water used for, say, heating and showering (not to mention the water that goes into agriculture for food you eat).

> Anyone who is sceptical of dishwashers and their merits needs to watch the Technology Connections video on dishwashers.

Or they just use very few dishes and figured out a method that works for them.

bsenftner
Incorrect usage? Put dishes in with food on them: food gets heat baked onto the dish. So, a brief rinse fixes that, while a 5 second wipe with a soapy sponge eliminates the need for the dishwasher entirely.
dns_snek
I run the dishwasher once every 2 days and I almost never have any issues with food sticking. I don't rinse anything, it all goes into the dishwasher and comes out clean 95% of the time.
bsenftner
Do you cook? I've never seen a dishwsher that can clean a pot, or pan or baking dish that was used to cook food. I feel like every responding does not cook. It would require significantly high pressure water jets, with computer vision scanning and robotic hands rotating an item with cooked in food to be cleaned. I think none of you are cooking. You're just rinsing fast food dirtied plates.
dns_snek
Yes, I do. Pans are usually not a problem, pots are not a problem unless there's something really stuck/burnt to the bottom but even then, washing it twice usually does the trick. Baking trays are the only thing that I clean by hand because they're too big to fit in the dishwasher.
bsenftner
Well then, what brand and model washer? I literally just had a 2 year old washer Lg removed and replaced with ordinary shelves & drawers because the thing was absolutely worthless, not cleaning worth a damn.
dns_snek
It's made by a company called Candy (EU) but unfortunately I don't have the exact model number. I can't say how it's going to hold up over time since I've only had it for around 2 years since I moved in.

The only advice I have in this regard is making sure you're loading it correctly and not overloading it to the point where water spray can't reach your dishes.

You've probably come across these videos already but just in case you haven't, Technology Connections released 2 videos on the topic of dishwashers that could be helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll6-eGDpimU

hasmolo
modern dishwashers literally tell you _not_ to rinse and place dished in directly. i love seeing this 'hack' and knowing that it was a _total_ waste of time and energy. i can fill my dishwasher in 1 to 2 minutes, do _no_ washing at all, and 1 hour later all my dishes are spotless and sanitized. the damn thing runs at 35 decibels so i can't even hear it.
thiht
> you have to clean the dish 80% before going into the washer

No you don’t. You just empty the dishes and put them in the washer. That’s it.

> I've timing both and hand washing beats dishwashers by an significant amount every time

If you count the time the dishwasher is running, yeah sure. Otherwise it’s just pushing a button.

EvanAnderson
I know that hand washing is water-inefficient, compared to modern machines, but I find it a very satisfying activity. When I was working from home I found it a great activity to use as a break from work.
alexpetralia
Yes, I also use very little water! Only the rinsing part at the end, which maybe takes 2 to 3 minutes on low (much of the water is reused).
clairity
there are other considerations as well. a dishwasher has a breakeven point of about 2 people eating ~2 meals a day (e.g., 4 place settings a day), because that's the least amount of dishes you need to run it once a day. anything less, and it becomes an additional cognitive load rather than being a mindless convenience. moreover, stuck-on food becomes extra dry overnight and that generally leads to less clean dishes. if you're a single person looking for an apartment (or even a couple who eat out all the time), you should consider a built-in dishwasher negative value because it's priced in to the cost but you likely won't use it (a washing machine is always nice to have though).
clairity
i do this same method and i don't know how you could get through 50(!) dishes in anything less than 15 minutes, unless they're not thoroughly cleaned. 5 minutes is the time it usually takes to do ~1 set of dishes (7-10 items), though that's partially because it lacks the compounding effects you mention.
jacknews
+1 for cleaning as you go while cooking.

When my wife cooks, the kitchen looks like a crime scene when she's done.

It's cleaner than when I started when I cook.

hypertele-Xii
I have one small pot that cooks one full meal which I eat from the pot with my one spoon. Then I lick the spoon clean and rinse the pot with cold water, using plain soap and brush when necessary.
EvanAnderson
When I do have something that requires soaking I’ve found that sprinkling in a little powdered dishwasher detergent, as opposed to liquid soap, makes a tremendous difference. The enzymes in the dishwasher detergent, if left for even just an hour, make it much easier to hand wash stubborn items. I keep some detergent in a shaker by the sink just for this purpose.
sultee
There're too many people washing their dishes right after using them in this thread.

What to do if you're not one of them?

I created my personal ritual: all the dishes land in the sink during the day, and right before going to sleep I turn on an audio book and spend the next ~20 mins calmly doing my home stuff. Loading the dishwasher (and unloading yesterday's portion), preparing food containers for pets, etc. Everything that's quiet enough not to wake up everyone in the house.

II2II
A similar approach: I tend to wash them while preparing the next meal, except for dinner when I wash both the lunch dishes and the dinner dishes as I go. (Everything is done by hand.)
mbg721
Washing the dishes right after using them is an ideal, not a reality. Most of the time, my kitchen looks like Picasso's Guernica.
downboots
Why hasn't scrubbing been solved? Put hands in box. Box blasts whatever you hold into it. Doubles for hand wash.
antisthenes
Use as few dishes as possible. Wash them same day. No need to "disrupt" the 1000-year old process, because it just works.
Overtonwindow
I put everything into the dishwasher, press the button, and it washes.
senectus1
Make the kids do the dishes every night.

We do them during the day.

TamDenholm
This is not what my actual system is but its the best one i've heard of, its very much a super lazy, throw money at the problem kind of solution.

Have 2 dishwashers. Make sure all the dishes and cutlery you own fits in them. Fill one dishwasher with the dirty dishes, turn it on and onces its done, just leave the clean dishes in there, thats where they live now, thats the storage solution for them. As you use the clean dishes, load them into the other dishwasher until done, repeat the cycle.

This does scream like a solution from a single guy with too much money, but honestly, i'd do it if my kitchen wasn't tiny.

thiht
That doesn’t make a lot of sense, you don’t use the same set of cookware every time. Say you use a pot, put it in dishwasher A, wash it, now it lives clean here. Next meal you use a pan, put it in dishwasher B, wash it. Third meal you use a wok, where does it go? You still need to empty a dishwasher at some point.
tarboreus
Do you have a room in your palace devoted only to dishwashers? Now I'm wondering how many washing machines you have.
lurn_mor
I've trained myself to only wash dishes when the microwave is running, and you'd be shocked how little time it takes to do them - often far less than the 90 seconds I'd planned. I end up with a hot meal and a clean kitchen.
entropicgravity
The most efficient process is, first let the dishes soak, then hand wash the dishes while the tap is running (ie not in a wash basin), finally let dry in the drying rack (ie not with a drying towel). Bachelors the world over confirm that this is the most efficient system.