Tell HN: I'm scared of sharing my opinion online
I don't feel safe sharing my true opinion online. I generally find that I'm very distant in belief from a lot of people on social media (reddit, twitter, let alone facebook or whatever, even if I don't use them).
Just to give an example, I couldnt care less about people engaging in incest and find it just an old cultural taboo. Adults are responsible enough to know about the dangers of having children and they can do whatever they want.
Say, on reddit (even if some might agree), I would typically get people calling me disgusting, downvoting, going through my post history, attacking me, DMng me, whatnot. This in itself is not a big deal, but when disliked opinions by the hivemind start to pile, you are seen as an enemy, someone to be sabotaged, followed around and downvoted, etc. If it links to your real identity? Oh boy. One wrong opinion here in the US is enough to ruin your life. Ah, i just remembered that article about a mentally challenged guy who dressed as Hitler in halloween and as a result got fired from his 20+ or so year janitor job. Not the same, but I somehow find it relevant in a way. (He was making fun of hitler, he claimed)
I'm not unhealthily paranoid, and I'm not someone with outright illegal views. But I don't fit the right or the left, and so I have no allies, sometimes only enemies.
I don't want to make this too long. I'm venting here because people here are more open minded than in general (even if I feel that's changing with the years and as more people join here... just me?)
Thanks for reading.
130 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 145 ms ] threadIt's not a thing that most people can succeed at over the long term.
For example, recently a Twitter data breach has been in the news. If you are two of the 400M users, then your phone number or some other bit of information will likely be the same across identities.
The fact is things like this have happened before ("Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?"), which is not an excuse or a dismissal; but a comfort: society has had moments of narrow mindedness and has grown through them.
The way you sate your opinion can matter a lot: In your example, your respect for the privacy of others is a positive that can be emphasized; and don't worry about the more provocative stance of "why is incest viewed badly" until you're actually wanting to pick that fight specifically.
However, I do find it hilarious in a rather childish way that you are surprised how people react to your opinion on incest. Of all opinions, why even use that as an example? It just shows that there simply is an issue of over sharing and not being able to read the fucking room
“ Just to give an example, I couldnt care less about people engaging in incest and find it just an old cultural taboo. Adults are responsible enough to know about the dangers of having children and they can do whatever they want.”
You know what I get from your opinion? That you are ok with adults abusing children they are related to. Even if that’s not your point, you have to at least recognize that’s gonna be a generally unpopular opinion unless you tend to hang out with pedophiles.
So, check yourself before you wreck yourself.
I suspect that you are wrong, and that most incest happens between same-age adolescent or young adult siblings (and even more between cousins if you count cousins). But I don't have any actual data to back that up either, and would be amazed if any worthwhile data even exist.
34% of reported sexual assault on children take place by family members.
Even "a lot" could reasonably be treated as having been a statement about the proportion, but it would not have been a precise enough statement to argue about. And "a lot" could also be treated as talking about an absolute number, in which case the question of whether something was "a lot" would be a total matter of personal opinion.
"Most", on the other hand, has a very clear meaning in terms of relative numbers... which that RAINN link does nothing to support.
"Arguing in good faith" includes not trying to quietly rewrite your position in the middle.
AND the original post explicitly limited the field to adults. So even that had already been dealt with.
You are operating in the proud rhetorical tradition that calls all LGBT people "groomers"... and I'm done with you.
And why, pray, should they come out only to face unfounded accusations of rape and child abuse?
You missed that it's a totally different statistic. Even if it was 100% of reported sexual assault on children is by family members, it could still be that incest between consenting adults is more common.
That's not even close to what OP stated. What are you talking about?
Exactly, but that goes to show how conditioned/indoctrinated some people can be and its not their fault.
Its not like defenses against indoctrination or subversion are taught in K-12 (school), its more the other way around.
People see one thing and act like you say something else, when you didn't. Its an irrational state often found in demoralization which is a goal of subversive propaganda.
Its often referred to as trigger associations, and quite a lot of people have these thanks to no regulation of subversive content over the years.
Those people are being irrational, and you can't argue with someone or something that doesn't reason.
Honestly if they were intelligent, they'd strive to identify and remove those triggers through systematic desensitization. The fact that you can't rationally communicate on a subject you disagree with is a pretty good test for those associations. Most people don't have the self-awareness to do this though largely because if they did, they wouldn't be in that state to begin with, at least some would argue that.
Its important to read what was said, and then react rationally, and respond to what was actually said.
If you can't talk, then you can't think. Its a necessary requirement for intelligence and critical thought. Just because you talk to someone doens't mean you have to agree with them, not even in the slightest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoralization_(warfare).
No they are not.
If it hurts, stop doing it.
I'd love to say that in some cases. But boy that may backfire....
Are we seriously questioning why someone wants to share their opinions on a topic? Are we actually clueless as to what they get out of it?
Is telling them they should instead spend a great deal of time following a completely unrelated pursuit our solution?
"Hey, I'm having a hard time expressing myself while feeling safe from (as I see it) arbitrary harassment, and managing vectors for imagined retributions"
"Go decompile donkey kong"
...right
Yes, feel free to explain why that’s insane. It seems absolutely normal to keep things to yourself
Obviously I am still on HN so I still do it, but I definitely feel it's futile and it's a guilty pleasure. But even here, I've lurked or posted for many years too and I can't recall anyone changing their opinion on anything.
Even if you haven't changed opinions, you may have helped take down strawmen or aid others in steelmaning.
https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/nev...
I think we will somehow survive as a society without hearing this dude's thoughts on incest. And yes, I think people would be better served spending their time on hobbies than arguing politics on the Internet.
I think it's also probably safe to say they're not delivering these opinions as non-sequiturs. If there is some news article posted for discussion about incest, and I showed up to say "I don't like incest", I doubt I'd find anyone telling me about references to
> 1840, The Corsair, “The Letter Bag of the Great Western,” pg. 775, col. 1
But look what seems to happen at the inverse?
Make of the opinion what you will, but bashing the engagement is a bit rich.
OP is just giving the outsiders perspective to the hivemind. It's worth hearing now and then imo.
Sometimes it can even be fun. I've gotten a surprising number of upvotes with no supporting comments in the past on here, presumably from others too afraid to speak up.
Not saying incest and apartheid are the same thing, but we need to be able to discuss all ideas in an open way, even the ones that most of us find uncomfortable. Otherwise democracy dies.
If he wants to spin up an Incest Rights Advocacy group, he can certainly go do that. But arguing on Reddit and then feeling sad about it is not Step 1 in that process.
One person won't, but echo chambers definitely do solidify people's opinions. I'm old enough to have seen popular opinions on a lot of issues move during my own lifetime, and things really start to get extreme at about the point where people feel like they can't oppose the trend. That happens pretty much regardless of whether the new or old opinion was "right" or "wrong". And if the accepted opinion started out largely "right", it very often ends up getting pushed into a more extreme version that's closer to "wrong".
It's called "groupthink". It's one reason that having persistent handles isn't necessarily as good an idea as you'd think in online discussions. Which is itself an opinion close to some danger areas right now...
When you had a smaller pool of people and their political/religious backgrounds were more wide and open you'd be more thoughtful about what you say, and discussions were more academic less political, but now it seems everyone has a motive behind what they say or do and everything is about being grouped under socialist, neoliberal, capitalist, patriot, nationalist, ring-wing nutjob, extremist, etc...
My point is the problem is online echo chambers, if we had a way to build larger but similar wide-view communication platforms maybe we'd have less politicization but then people probably wouldn't use it because that's what they're seeking an outlet for their political idealogies.
As long as now one attacks me with the violence of typing mean letters into the intertubes...
If you don't have any interest in discussing specific inflammatory taboos then don't. We all self-censor. You wouldn't casually mention your disregard of cultural taboos at an office party or to someone you just met at a coffee shop, so why do you think that it should be acceptable online? You are still in public.
The fact that you expect people to act like everything is fine because we are in online spaces is not rational nor do I think it is reasonable. Either (I) find somewhere you can go where being 'weird' in your specific way is generally accepted, (II) self-censor your views to mitigate the backlash you don't want to deal with, or (III) deal with the consequences of people thinking that your opinion is a shitty one.
Regardless - I wouldn't really worry too much about the opinions of people on the internet. In particular on very large communities like Reddit, the inmates are running the asylum there.
I'm political, but my politics are often irrelevant (especially somewhere like HN). Even when politics comes up, it's not like I write a manifesto.
I'd say I'm "political" - my username is literally a self-reported political identifier. I often post about various political topics here that I feel strongly about, or where I feel like I have an opinion or context that's uncommon in this community.
What I don't do is get worked up when someone disagrees with me, even if they do so in a rude or dismissive way. After all, most of the time the entire reason I'm commenting is because I believe I have an uncommon/unpopular perspective that I'd like to share. It would be odd to do that and then be surprised when someone doesn't share it.
or like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34235637
or this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34070263
or this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33962019.
Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. It will eventually get your main account banned as well.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
I think you should follow the same norms on social media as you follow in real life: IE, if you walked into most public places and said (what I won't repeat,) most people will think you're a weirdo and avoid you.
IMO: The biggest difference between now and the 1990s was that oddball discussions, (like that kooky thing I won't repeat,) was that the oddball discussions generally only happened with people who were looking for them. Furthermore, if you were a nutbag, you might get banned from a small message board or dial-up BBS, but you could just move on to another small message board. Places like "the well," Compuserve, and AOL came and went out fashion really fast, so your opportunities to re-establish yourself were frequent.
Now with much larger message boards, it's harder to re-establish yourself every 6 months to a year. (For example, if I repeat what you said in the original post, it'll show up on my Hacker News list of posts. I won't repeat it; but now everyone in Hacker News who wants to learn about your submissions will see your very weird comment above.)
So, do what you do in real life: Read the room, and keep your mouth shut about the topics I won't repeat. Learn to blend in, and learn to find like minds.
I also did that alot in real life with non strangers
Once I stopped doing that I became much happier. Stick to things that are facts/proven instead of controversial/edgy opinions and you will be much happier
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25667362
For example seeking therapy itself, or going to toastmasters being examples of what idiotic mates might laugh at you for doing.
What you're really scared of is enduring the consequences of sharing your controversial opinions. You know your opinions are controversial, you know you're going to endure negative consequences for sharing them, so it makes sense to not share them. After all, what's the point? In all honesty, it's most likely you're an asshole who likes people getting all riled up and laughing at them for getting them riled up. You can't seriously think you're going to change anyone's opinions on such topics in a casual setting.
I will however share my experience, what I have done, how I did it, how it worked, how it failed, how I choose the live my life, and why I make those choices. But these are not opinions, rather they are facts about me. People can do with those facts what they wish. If people disagree, well that hardly matters because these are my choices not theirs.
There is an issue about opinions, in particular on the internet, where if you do not fit in the "woke" views, you're pretty much going to be bashed.
Unless you deliberately want to engage in advocacy to change society's view on a topic or persuade other people keep controversial opinions to yourself. If you aren't sure test the waters only in appropriate contexts without committing to the opinion which can let you safely gauge reactions.
I'm assuming these are mostly theoretical concerns not things you want to do yourself but without being judged.
FWIW I'm not the main character nor is anyone else.
FWIW #2: The sibling effect naturally causes partner aversion to any other children you spend a certain amount of time with growing up. Normally functioning brains exclude these people as romantic partners, though there are "exceptions" like siblings or cousins raised apart from each other. That's the source of the cultural taboo so you're gonna have a tough time getting anyone to sign on to that opinion. We evolved this way to prevent inbreeding so it's a fairly strongly preserved trait.
It's funny because it's something I used to hear all the time from very conservative voices when arguing for progressive change. Now it seems to have been adopted by the other side to shut down the mildest complaints. If you ask to be able to discuss a controversial opinion without verbal abuse, harassment and threats, you are not entitled, you are a normal human being in a civilized society.
It's also worth noting that the OP has not claimed they have suffered verbal abuse, harrassment, or threats. It's as likely that if they were speaking in person the typical response would be someone disengaging from the conversation with haste. I imagine many HN readers are very familiar with how the nature of online discourse fundamentally shifts the responses available.
If you really want to share this opinion, I'm sure there are forums you could do so on. But not all forums are forums for all opinions.