Those who attempt first, generate knowledge that we build on. Would the Wright Bros be anywhere without the bravado of earlier failed pioneers?
In fact, Wilbur flew first that day then failed, so then Orville went and that's the flight we remember. And they might not have gotten there at all without inspiration from the childhood helicopter toys of Pénaud, who I'm not sure tried to fly himself but it wasn't long after that a bicycle maker tried.
I rather think that the way we put all the fame and glory onto a single person/team for inventions that took generations of "standing on the shoulders of giants" , is, well tacky isn't the word. Trite, maybe?
We're reducing the incredible collective work of millions of minds to the name of a single person and claiming they did it all. That's nonsense of course and every time you read into any discovery you'll learn all the connections that led up to it. Nothing in science, maths, or technology is the work of one person. Acknowledging this doesn't belittle the incredible work that your favorite scientist or mathematician did any more than pointing out that your favorite sportsball star plays on a team, by the way. It's just a more honest reframing.
On the other hand, famous names linked to discoveries is inspiring and simple even if it's not entirely true. Maybe that's why we do it?
> collect the entirety of human knowledge in one place, and make it available to everyone. ... unfortunately, no-one had invented web servers or home computers yet. So instead, they ended up making the world's greatest filing cabinet
To give some context: there is this meme where you have to pick a side in the war about naming square cross section segments of potato fried in oil, one side of the war names them 'frites' (or 'friet'), the other side names them 'patat'. Clearly we have representatives of both sides here.
Wikipedia describes it better as "a milestone in the history of data collection and management" or a forerunner of Wikipedia.
Card index systems as shown were not unusual in libraries or large offices. The difference here seems to be the global scope, collaboration in sourcing text, and the public access.
As others pointed out, web, out of CH.
Datagrams as an FR invention.
Fiber optics, CN
I purposely did not mention the "inventors" of these 3 random tidbits because, guess what? It's not that much important because invention is an iterative process and nationalism should not have any part in it. Don't be glad <country> invented <thing> because they usually didn't, and it was a collective progress made on top of something else.
However, the life of Tim Berners Lee is very interesting, the maths of Pouzin are cool and Kao got a Nobel Prize in physics...
Yes I know, this is pointless pedantry, but this is nothing like the internet(a network of networks, the closest predecessor of which I can come up with is the post office) or even the web(a decentralized set of documents capable of being cross-linked) It is sort of like wikipedia(a centralized set of cross-linked documents) However, given the brevity of information you can fit on a card I would guess that it is actually a search engine(an index of decentralized documents).
Small nitpick: this collection of filing cabinets as well as the theorized electronic version of it are centralized projects of curated information that really in no way resemble "the Internet" and would better be compared to a library or encyclopedia. Many such projects to build a central repository of all human knowledge have been undertaken at various times throughout human history going back thousands of years.
I realize this video is begging for shallow dismissals but can you guys please take a minute to dig a little deeper? You don't need much. Here, for example:
This thread was terrible when I first saw it. (It still is, and it was then as well.)
I'm sorry for patronising, but part of moderation's job is to make calls about what's within the site purview vs. what's not. This was not. Not that any particular commenter is to blame; it's a tragedy of the commons thing.
Some of that was the baity title, some was the video focusing on the filing cabinet, and some was the cheeky-shallow internet style. Still, commenters here should be willing to work a little (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). Not much, mind—but a little.
I enjoyed this video, but I think its effect depends on how much you know beforehand about Paul Otlet.
I’m very happy to see that there is now a museum.
For those that would like to learn about its significance in context I recommend this talk: “Alex Wright - The Web That Wasn't: Forgotten Forebears of the Internet” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR6rwMw0EjI&t=823s
I happen to be very interested in Hypertext, but it was only in 2016 when I actually learned about Douglas Engelbart and Ted Nelson. I thought I knew about them, having found some mentions of them, but that time I did listen to them for the first time in recorded interviews, I read for the first time their writings, not what someone wrote about them, and realized how much I did not know until then.
Once I realized that, I started looking for more information and some time later I learned about Paul Otlet from Alex Wright, but all that took a while.
This video by "The Tim Traveller” is, as the channel name implies, primarily a travel video and it is a pleasure to watch if you already know about Paul Otlet. But if not, what stands out is things like confusing The Internet with The World Wide Web, things that someone like me would just ignore while enjoying the good bits.
38 comments
[ 79.2 ms ] story [ 1557 ms ] threadhttp://traite.czam.de/en/latest/otlet_traite_1934_FR.html
Those who attempt first, generate knowledge that we build on. Would the Wright Bros be anywhere without the bravado of earlier failed pioneers?
In fact, Wilbur flew first that day then failed, so then Orville went and that's the flight we remember. And they might not have gotten there at all without inspiration from the childhood helicopter toys of Pénaud, who I'm not sure tried to fly himself but it wasn't long after that a bicycle maker tried.
Corpses. ...and no disrespect intended, quite the opposite.
The Giants, on the shoulders of whom we stand, are probably all dead, now.
Those, still alive, go often unrecognised...until later.
Getting credit for something you didn't invent rather than the word you did is just tacky.
We're reducing the incredible collective work of millions of minds to the name of a single person and claiming they did it all. That's nonsense of course and every time you read into any discovery you'll learn all the connections that led up to it. Nothing in science, maths, or technology is the work of one person. Acknowledging this doesn't belittle the incredible work that your favorite scientist or mathematician did any more than pointing out that your favorite sportsball star plays on a team, by the way. It's just a more honest reframing.
On the other hand, famous names linked to discoveries is inspiring and simple even if it's not entirely true. Maybe that's why we do it?
https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=1sxUPxJsXZY
> collect the entirety of human knowledge in one place, and make it available to everyone. ... unfortunately, no-one had invented web servers or home computers yet. So instead, they ended up making the world's greatest filing cabinet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwHotpl9DA
Card index systems as shown were not unusual in libraries or large offices. The difference here seems to be the global scope, collaboration in sourcing text, and the public access.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundaneum
I purposely did not mention the "inventors" of these 3 random tidbits because, guess what? It's not that much important because invention is an iterative process and nationalism should not have any part in it. Don't be glad <country> invented <thing> because they usually didn't, and it was a collective progress made on top of something else.
However, the life of Tim Berners Lee is very interesting, the maths of Pouzin are cool and Kao got a Nobel Prize in physics...
Meaning Charles Kao? A Hong Kong citizen working in Britain for a British subsidiary of an American company.
His family fled communist China, Kao probably wouldn't want his work attributed to that country.
It also sort of matches my point: nationalities of inventions are, at best, flexible (and shouldn't be used, really).
The CCP would likely be adamant that fiber optics are a CN invention. Your remark would likely point to fiber optics as a UK one...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cailliau
Mundaneum - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29449341 - Dec 2021 (31 comments)
Paul Otlet Envisioned the Internet Before Computers, Without Computers (2014) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22043441 - Jan 2020 (14 comments)
The Internet Before the Internet: Paul Otlet’s Mundaneum (2016) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21560749 - Nov 2019 (2 comments)
Old ideas come back as researchers envision a more structured Web (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17327039 - June 2018 (6 comments)
The Future of the Web Is 100 Years Old - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10611015 - Nov 2015 (25 comments)
Mundaneum - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10104269 - Aug 2015 (2 comments)
Mundaneum - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9783046 - June 2015 (6 comments)
Dec. 10, 1944: Web Visionary Passes Into Obscurity - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=988008 - Dec 2009 (2 comments)
Amazing anticipation of the web from 1934 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=81030 - Nov 2007 (0 comments, but interesting)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRN5m64I7Y&t=16s
Obviously he was thinking about more than a filing cabinet.
Some of that was the baity title, some was the video focusing on the filing cabinet, and some was the cheeky-shallow internet style. Still, commenters here should be willing to work a little (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). Not much, mind—but a little.
For those that would like to learn about its significance in context I recommend this talk: “Alex Wright - The Web That Wasn't: Forgotten Forebears of the Internet” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR6rwMw0EjI&t=823s
I happen to be very interested in Hypertext, but it was only in 2016 when I actually learned about Douglas Engelbart and Ted Nelson. I thought I knew about them, having found some mentions of them, but that time I did listen to them for the first time in recorded interviews, I read for the first time their writings, not what someone wrote about them, and realized how much I did not know until then.
Once I realized that, I started looking for more information and some time later I learned about Paul Otlet from Alex Wright, but all that took a while.
This video by "The Tim Traveller” is, as the channel name implies, primarily a travel video and it is a pleasure to watch if you already know about Paul Otlet. But if not, what stands out is things like confusing The Internet with The World Wide Web, things that someone like me would just ignore while enjoying the good bits.