Ask HN: Should I quit my job?
For a while now (a couple of months) I struggle with having any motivation at my programming job. I like the company's profile and have a great team, but:
- I was hired at a lower level than I interviewed for. Was going for a senior dev position, having 10 years of professional exp in the area, but apparently was hired for a mid position. I found out about this only 6 months in.
- My manager and other people in the management admitted to me I should've been hired as a senior dev. No one till now could explain to me how this happened.
- Apparently, the company can't adjust my level, because "the processes won't allow it".
- In order to get to the level I was supposed to be hired at, I need two promotions in a row. This will mean I need 1.5-2 years with the company just to get to the senior position (!!!).
- I keep getting great reviews in the review cycles (not to brag, just to paint the full picture), but it leads to no actual actions being taken by the company: neither in terms of the levels nor in terms of the compensation. All this feels like a pat on the head.
- The title itself is meh, but it has a very tangible effect now: the company is comparing my salary to mid-level devs (usually having half of my experience) and uses this to justify no or minimal salary increases, in spite of the overachiever reviews and the inflation being at almost 20% in my country.
- All this leads to me having close to zero motivation and energy left to work here, hence me wasting time by writing this post.
- This situation left me with a bad taste in my mouth about the industry in general. I feel really disillusioned right now, even though it's not my first company. It's the first one I am so frustrated with.
- Considering the current job market, I am a bit afraid to just quit. I have enough saved up to survive quite a while without a job and have no family to support, but still, feels like a risky move.
- At the same time, I really don't have the energy to be jumping through 100 hoops in the interview process once again, at least not for the time being.
- It might be a chance to give it a shot as an indie dev, I have some ideas I wanted to try out and it's one thing I could get excited about in tech.
TL;DR I am probably burned out, looking for validation from anonymous people online to make a serious life decision, what could possibly go wrong.
79 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 177 ms ] threadthe employers behaviour here is offensive to any persons sensibilities and I think everyone reading this would be of the same mind to moving on as soon as possible. The way to do this is of course start talking with other employers, there is no reason why you couldn't rustle up some more suitable opportunities whilst you continue in post with this employer. Go only when you have found the right opportunity
IMO burnout is hard to identify in the moment, but looking back, its clear to see :). Keep your job for now, start the job hunt, and good luck.
I've heard they do but figure they are unicorns
I've only been in the industry for thirty years tho
You will be exponentially more attractive to recruiters while employed. Recruiters/HR will treat you as high value and will value your time a lot more if you are just changing jobs.
The opposite is true for someone looking for opportunities whilst unemployed, irrespective of industry experience.
The difference in recruited experience is massive having experienced both scenarios. It is just an unavoidable human bias from future employers.
Being unable to say "no" is also a great way to burn out in the first place. The advice of "just slack off" is often given in cases like these, but... if the person could do that, would they be burned out in the first place?
If he’s been doing as well as he claims, he can sit on his hands for a few months and start slow rolling his work.
Upgrade your LinkedIn to premium and set it so that only recruiters see you're open for work. With 10+ years of experience you'll have recruiters crawling in your inbox like cockroaches :D
Only quit when you've already signed a contract with the new employer, just be mindful of any notice periods you may have.
It sounds like this is stressing you out big time and you're very burnt out. How many months of runway do you have if you quit today? I would anticipate 4-6 months of unemployment but it sounds like you're not in North America so it might be different where you are.
Basically my advice is quit immediately, live off savings for at least 3 months and don't think about applying for jobs. Don't even code if you're not enjoying it. Do something else, feel like you're mastering some hobby, and after 3 months start looking for jobs. You'll find you have a lot more mental capacity to deal with interview bullshit and hopefully in the next role you won't burn out as quickly.
Would you be happy with a promotion that came with a meaningless raise? A promotion that had you doing the same thing?
In my experience, titles are absolutely meaningless outside of larger tech companies that have leveling guidelines.
Does your company have a leveling guideline?
I have not quit. Instead I became a high achiever in other aspects of life. I listen to folks at work talking about programming podcasts and online tech conferences..... I won a bike race last year and podium'd in a 100 mile off road race. I can cook pretty quickly these days, which results in making healthy, tasty food that my kids actually eat (along with the kraft mac n cheese which is an anchor nobody can escape).
Anyway, once you step away from computers life is huge. Give your job what it needs, and give the rest to yourself.
Sounds like you have a lot going on in the real life, and I have to admit I am a bit jealous now, I def should "get a life" outside of my work identity, something I have struggled to do successfully so far tbh.
I know it's a really "just do sport bro" advice, and i know that not everybody can do it (i actually have ankle issues since i was 18, and slowly becoming obese did not help at all, but i found a nice PT and techniques that mitigate the pain in the morning). You probably have money so you can try expensive sports like sailing and parasailing (i know i did).
The pandemic helped me in regard with moving out, trying new stuff (i took a 6 month sabbatical where i tried half a dozen new activities).
What are your times? What was the first greatest thing?
The greatest thing was my father giving me a hug after my first solo flight. He wasn't very affectionate.
...truer words were never spoken! :D
But an interviewer asking me about my previous job doesn’t worry me. “I left because I decided to take a 6 month sabbatical.” is a perfectly good answer. Don’t like it? Please let me know at the beginning of the interview so I can walk out without wasting my day.
at least my 2 cents
Don’t go indie, it will burn your savings - scratch this itch later when you’re better motivated.
Don’t get disillusioned with the industry, bad jobs are more common than good jobs, move on until you find one that appreciates you better.
Sure it’s easier to stay with the familiar prison than face the possibility of the unknown, but the bravery of stepping out is the cost that must be paid for the search for happiness, the easy decision is usually not the correct one.
Start applying!
Also titles are not the same across companies. SR dev at one place is a level 5 dev at another is a lead dev at a third.
If you are at the pay you want with a lower title, that is pure gold. It means an easy promotion, which is a pay bump.
Fighting for a higher title as an IC when happy with the pay seems like you are fighting against yourself. You want to be hired at the highest possible title so you have many years to go until a promotion?
For your current role. If you want to switch, it definitely does.
You're not job hopping to FB from Google at L3 and going up to L6.
You might be getting paid like a L5 now - but if you want to leave or get laid off or forced out or whatever - you'll probably end up with a huge career decline and pay decline than if you also had the proper title.
Get another job.
The interviews are part of the process. This is tough love: Suck it up. There's a part of you that does have the energy, and you know that. The fact that you can get excited as an indie dev says that you're not as burned out as you might think. You're just scared. It makes sense. But you can do it.
I hope this helps.
This is it, on top of it being a crappy company.
Don't worry. Most of us that have been around long enough have been there. Just dig the ditches while trying to find a new job. While the job market is tighter, there are still plenty of senior level jobs out there. From the conversations that I've had with recruiters, there's really a glut of juniors, while there's a lot of space for seniors.
Don't stay and "work your way into a senior". That's a bait ands switch as old as time. They're trying to get senior level talent at mid level cost. Do the work of an average mid level if you're paid as a mid level.
In the mean while (while looking for other positions), find something that mentally stimulates you.
I know incredible engineers with great experience, well known engineers, who have been unemployed 50% of the time or more during Covid.
It's no longer a seller's market, it's a buyer's market. If you do find a new job, it will take you a long time, and you will take a lower salary than you have now.
Regardless they shouldn't just quit without having another job lined up, and you have to be a bit more careful with your choice of company (maybe choose one that already jumped at the chance to do its "well everyone is laying off 10% of their staff, we should too even though we're still making record profits").
It worked out well for me, and I'd probably do it again without much hesitation if it felt necessary.
That's probably not enough to decide if it's worth it for you, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.
Either you're valued and suddenly the procedures won't be an issue, or you have found yourself another place to work.
But take your time, no rush. Just make sure you keep showing your value in your current job, that's your only currency.
In this case though it would take a lot to make me stay. They have already lied or given a deeply misleading impression of your seniority. I would not expect their overall management style to change.
I've said this in many similar threads but programmers/SWE are among the most privileged workers in the world economy and the grass is NOT greener on the other side. SWEs make enough money they can retire in half the time as the average worker if they so desire, so I'd stick it out and focus on other things in life outside of work for fulfillment.
In the US only.
I'd find another job and - if you were lied to, I'd talk to a lawyer.
Plus, a lawyer would be a luxury these days with all the mediation agreements being forced down our throats.
You should look for medium or small companies that doesn't have a lot of bureaucratic management layers if you want more direct feedback on the effort you put in. In my experience, success in large enterprises was usually helping your manager sell your project to rest of the company.
Anyways, you definitely should be looking for new opportunities while also cutting back on the amount of effort you put in your current company. General markets might be burning but demand for IT is still forever growing.
After reading: HELL YES. Get the hell out of there (but don't just quit without finding another job first, I mean just start interviewing as soon as you can). "The processes won't allow it" is corp-speak for 'don't expect anything ever from this company'. I've worked at levels above me (did the job of my boss after he quit) and never got a promotion for it, despite being told I should get one if I just hang on, for three years. The way to get to your level is to leave that company and join a new one at the level where you're supposed to be.
The hurdles to getting a new job suck, but you have to do it for your own sanity. Start doing whatever you need to prepare for it now, and make it a priority, even over your job if need be.