Ask HN: Has anyone successfully started their career over in their 30s?
Quit grad school and spent my 20s at a chaotic startup where I learned nothing about how to intentionally build a business. I spent years running around like a headless chicken to satisfy sales-type execs who had no interest in leveling me up. I was a moron for staying on as long as I did.
I was eventually let go, and for the past few years have been doing on-and-off menial gig work. Feel like I’ve wasted my life. No marketable skills. Unimpressive résumé. No network. No mentor. No confidence. No motivation. And I’m in my mid-30s.
-Is there any hope for someone like me?
-Is there any reasonable path to starting over?
-Where do I even begin?
-Will tech co’s ever consider hiring someone like me?
233 comments
[ 2.3 ms ] story [ 275 ms ] threadThe path depends on whether going to school full time will work for you. You don't need a degree from a fancy school to start over, community colleges have plenty of great classes. But if you can't put in some time to get sharp at something, it might have to be a different path.
I started college at 34, took 6 years to get two bachelors and a masters. Now I am a hardware engineer at a big tech (FAANG) company. I was an intern at 39 years old. That is not to say that you should go back to school. I'm just using myself as an example of someone that started their career over.
So to the first and fourth question the answer is yes. The others can only be answered by you.
(I also feel like I've done a shitton of stuff at times, with not much marketable to show for it. Some grounded but pie in skyish, some in tech but really just knowing how to use a computer really well and not so much deep programming knowledge.)
IMO now (2023+) is a fantastic time to re-start. There's a lot of change and a lot of opportunity. Maybe there has never been a better time to start new.
Look at everything that is broken, that everyone (or at least many--maybe half) know is broken (at least subconsciously).
I think maybe going out there and KEEPING AT MAKING/DOING SOMETHING PUBLICLY no matter how small, to add value (solve real problems) in one or more of the broken spaces, has got to turn into being profitable (trade value for value, put a price on a thing).
These are my random thoughts. I actually think I pretty much know what to do, and just need the courage/motivation to do it. So maybe motivation is a thing to look at, too.
This is high level. I could probably make a list of the broken areas, and so could you probably. I think if one gets started on solving them, there are plenty of people to hire and who would find the work meaningful and to grow. And plenty who know the fixes are needed, and not enough people making and providing the fixes.
There are also more obvious/traditional ways to restart, I guess. The same applies; a lot of things are new or newly matured enough to be really obvious/useful, so starting now as an experienced person (even not in the domain) in something different will have its advantages.
I doubt this helps much, but hang in there and believe in yourself. Sounds silly, I know. I think we can be realistic optimists here.
[Addendum: What I really want at present though is to find something that just needs me to be a really good computer user, and can help someone's business with that, to make ends meet, while I try to start the loftier stuff on the side. That has to be valuable, right? Seriously, IME most people cannot do that, and it's like it almost does not even matter. I do not want to learn all the programming things, but I'm still extremely proficient other than I guess what people actually need. Open to input along these lines. Thanks for asking this question. I might sound stupid, if so please just ignore.]
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She's an awesome nurse.
You can do this.
In hindsight, it was a natural "1% better" progression. I stopped hanging out with bad folks, got out of a junk relationship, got into a good relationship with someone who encouraged me and was more conscientious than I was, started exercising, meditating, studying, taking measured risks, practicing, and keeping track of my accomplishments so I had good talking points when pushing into a new opportunity. I also have to acknowledge the "home court advantage", because I stuck near my family and friends until I moved to the west coast for my first big job after graduation.
Believe me, I still feel like I wasted the years from age 16 to age 25, but I no longer feel like I've wasted my entire life.
> I still feel like I wasted the years from age 16 to age 25, but I no longer feel like I've wasted my entire life
I shall steal this turn of phrase, can relate so much.
To the fine OP: success is not guaranteed but I've met so many people that have pivoted their entire careers and lives later than you'd think. If you have the drive and privilege to give it a real try, you have a chance to join the ranks.
If you don't... you won't.
Kinda judgemental I know. Just know that you should never be afraid to re-invent yourself. There are more of us out there! Find us!
The 30's are very young!
I've hired people who have switched careers by going to dev bootcamps, but their situation was different because they hadn't had a period of downtime. In general, though, I love hiring career switchers. They've demonstrated the ability to learn and adapt rather than just let momentum carry them on.
As someone who hires software engineers, here's my perspective on this question:
> -Will tech co’s ever consider hiring someone like me?
Based on your description right now, I probably wouldn't hire you. You sound like you are directionless. I love mentoring new engineers and cultivating their growth, but I need them to have the focus and the drive to do that growth, and the description you have here doesn't paint a picture of someone who would likely be successful at that.
However, if I were to see the resume of someone who spent their early 30s directionless and then figured out what they wanted to do and took the serious steps to do that with a record of setting ambitious but reasonable goals for themselves and hitting them, along with developing the beginning of the technical skills needed for the role, I'd be really excited to consider them.
I suggest you hire a career coach to explore your options; you're younger than you think. I wish you the best in figuring this out.
This is really important. I just spent the last couple of months helping some people transition to the tech industry, and I'm seriously reconsidering whether I want to continue. It's demotivating when people don't have the drive to take initiative or follow through when you're volunteering your time to help them.
So OP, there's definitely people out there willing to give you a chance, but you need to show concrete proof that you are worth considering. Like the parent comment said, a record of goal-setting and progress would really help, maybe in the form of non-trivial personal projects or contributions to open source projects.
As far as the motivation aspect, talking to a therapist or career coach is a great idea. It's possible that your lack of motivation is not inherent, but rather a result of disillusionment from the bad experiences you've had. You created this post, so while not a huge step, it's a sign that you want to change. Build on that.
I'd love to go back with the confidence to be more selective about who I take on, but I'm not sure if there's a structure for that. And it's okay if someone is really struggling to understand code, but I'm not interested in working with someone who is struggling to understand effort. That's something they should develop before starting to learn programming.
IMO for vast majority - getting into tech is not driven by curiosity but pure money. Which is not necessarily bad when you need to feed your family, but the people rarely last.
I've spoken to a banker at some point in his 40s trying to switch to crypto in 2017 when it was all hype. I gave him the roadmap, specific steps and extended network. He never followed through, well because it still required hard work. Not everyone is committed enough to do such work, particularly if it requires trade-off. However if there is something on the line, like 5-10 grand. Different story.
What would this actually look like to you on a resume?
That's a great question, and I wish I had a great answer. I think this is the sort of thing where a cover letter could be useful. Personally, when I'm reviewing resumes, I usually get a bit of background context from our recruiting department to go along with it.
When evaluating candidates, I'm generally looking for things that often don't line up with a line item on a resume but can sometimes be inferred from the collection of items - I'm looking for curiosity, a drive for improvement, a willingness to take risks, etc. So if I saw someone whose resume indicated a directionless period but then also had items that showed a change in trajectory (education, relevant volunteering, relevant projects, etc), it would cause me to take notice.
I hire for a small company, but we have high standards, so a lot of hiring involves finding high-performing folks who might be overlooked by FAANGs. Someone who doesn't have obviously great job experience but who does have signs that they've taken initiative and followed through to become an excellent engineer is exactly the sort of person that I work with our recruiting team to find.
So if you have a candidate, who was a baker for their whole life, but in last year: started a blog where they do some coding projec(s), say "implementing tetris in language X" and then making weekly updates to that pet project, like adding score, adding AI. At the same time that candidate got some certificate in last year (everyone knows most of those certs are a scam).
To be honest when you are a junior, probably the hardest step is to get that first job; perhaps you can go to some meetups and plainly say there that you are a junior and search for a job.
I agree. As someone who has also done a great deal of hiring, having sincere interest is just so important in the big, wide world of software engineering.
So now I tell people this…
1. Live for yourself not your mom or dad or societal expectations.
2. Provided you don’t have any responsibilities besides yourself, do whatever you want for a profession.
3. It’s completely OK to have a job that you can stand and hang out with friends. If you’re not motivated by money or the work itself that’s perfectly OK (See #1)
4. Don’t become a developer because someone said you could make a bunch of money. Do it because you love building things. (See #1)
5. If you don’t know what to do then do everything and you’ll find out what you don’t like eventually. (See #1)
6. Life is not a race. Literally none of it matters except how you treat yourself and others. It’s your life. You’re allowed to change your mind but be kind to those who love you and take care of your dependents. (See #2)
This is a very significant point.
I’ve noticed both in myself and in close friends who are in the industry (all of us pushing or having broken past the 40 yo mark) that a mental fatigue has set in, one that particularly attacks interest, rather than acuity.
It seems that interest remains strong in the general sense, i.e. interest in tech, but wanes in the specific sense, i.e. wrt interest in an employer’s objectives.
It’s not exactly “burn out”, as our mental faculties remain strong. It’s rather a sort of middle age bitterness, which takes away the capacity to invest effort in external targets with the same abandon as before.
If anyone has experienced something similar, and broken through to a sunny patch beyond, I’d really appreciate an advice or three.
At 40, we see our employers for the human beings they are so it’s easy to feel cynical and unmotivated. Be honest with yourself about why you’re there and focus on your targets instead of theirs.
If your supervisor is cool, they’ll understand and should find a way to link your targets to the companies. If not then consider switching companies or teams if you can.
Here’s a few other things…
- Therapy
- Take a break if you can afford it. Do nothing for 2-3 weeks or even longer. Set no expectations and do your best to not judge yourself for doing nothing.
- Make sleep hygiene a priority.
- Be honest with yourself. “Employer objectives don’t motivate me anymore so what does?” If you’re not sure anymore, then it’s time to roll your sleeves up and start experiencing new things. Go where your heart desires and dare to tread where you’re fearful.
- Find a hobby that involves other people and exercise. This means trying a lot of different things until you find one that clicks for you. It’s amazing how much fog can be lifted by a little exercise and social interaction.
Best of luck!
Especially given the rough times ahead...
With logic:
- Pick a goal (AKA a destination)
- Find a map to achieve that goal (AKA a Roadmap)
- Ask a question regarding the above two points, to a search engine, such as "Roadmap to becoming <XYZ Occupation>"
For example, perhaps it's "Roadmap to becoming a Civil Law Attorney" or "Roadmap to becoming a Web App Developer"
If it's the latter, here's a good resource: https://roadmap.sh/
If you intend to educate yourself, search for "Resources for <learning to become XYZ Occupation/Learning XYZ Skillset>
I'd emphasize that 'I guess I'll go back to school' is probably not a constructive thought. It is fine to go back to school, but it should be a tool to get to your goal. If you have no goal, school (and more debt) probably isn't going to help.
I'd also extrapolate on "If you have no goal, school (and more debt) probably isn't going to help." because I agree with that.
Instead of making school the goal, recognize that School leads to a goal of a "Skill set" / "Knowledge base" Therefore, the Skill Set & Knowledge Base are actually the goal. And both can be had without school.
As can credentials-- in the form of certificates, rather than school. I am a software developer at a "Fortune 1000" company and my company likes employees to have certifications. I am currently studying for a Kubernetes certification for example.
Anyway, to get back to the idea of a goal--
I'd pick a goal based on what is in demand in the economy. For this, you can check out the Bureau of Labor Statistics -- such as by googling: "BLS Fastest Growing Occupations" and/or checking this page to get a sense of projected job openings vs. salaries: "Visualize it: Wages and projected openings by occupation" https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2019/article/wages-and-ope...
I recommend picking a goal of a developing skillset for an occupation which doesn't require a degree, but which focuses on the skill set instead. But that said, a degree is OK too... it's just that: 1. it's expensive (in the US at least), 2. it takes years, 3. many classes in most degrees aren't applicable to jobs.
It sounds like you’ve maybe seen your resume in front of you and you’re reflecting on how it didn’t go the way you’d hoped, rather than the value in it.
Talk to a career coach who can help you write it from the perspective of focusing on your wins.
I don’t know you or your background but I doubt the story of your career is “I did a startup and it failed and I should’ve seen that coming and now I’m lacking confidence”.
Get the resume rewritten:
- Job functions. - Tech/skills learned. - Explanation of how eager you are for the next challenge.
Buddy, if you’re old in your 30’s then I’m ancient and I refuse to accept that. If you went to grad school then you’re probably at most 15 years out of school. That’s means you still have two thirds of a typical working life ahead of you. More if you’re lucky.
Make a plan and get yourself back out there.
By the way, I’d absolutely hire a late career switcher, because you’ve likely got more responsibilities than someone straight out of college. This might sound counter-intuitive (you can’t be easily exploited with 60 hour work weeks the way a starry-eyed grad can), but you also likely can’t afford to waste anyone’s time.
So I started learning cloud stuff, and eventually someone came along and said, "Hey we like your mix of skills which include some cloud stuff". That job ended up being all cloud stuff, which required a massive amount of learning to get up to speed.
I was fired from a job in the media industry and decided to start over in tech. It was really a low point for me honestly; I can empathize I think with your post.
I found an entry-level job as a Scrum Master. The role gets a ton of hate, and some of the criticism is justified, but it helped me learn the tech world from the very bottom.
I spent about 4 years doing that. I did a lot of listening and learned an incredible amount from the development team. It was probably the most important thing for me -- whatever career you choose, find a way to start in the trenches with the folks doing the real work.
Then I became a Program Manager. That was really good because it helped me learn the delivery aspect, and get me plugged into the strategy aspect of the techbiz.
I should note here by this time that I had been really lucky in a couple of respects:
1. I found a company that was VERY good at developing their employees into new roles.
2. I found mentors and sponsors within that org that helped me to grow and sponsored me for new roles.
But after a few years learning the Program side, I transitioned to PM, where I am very, very, happy, and to be honest have a leg up on some of my peers because of my deep experience embedded with dev teams and understanding their struggles day to day, but also having to service the needs of the leadership/exec team as a PgM.
I guess I would sum this up by saying, it sucks, and it takes time, but it is 100% doable. I'm not exceptional in terms of brains or skills, which I don't mean as a knock to anything or anyone, but rather as a way of saying, "If I can do it, I really do believe others can too."
The thing to focus on are my 1 & 2 points above. Those are absolute game changes and IMO must-haves.
And LUCK again plays an unfortunately large part in all of this, I feel I must repeat. But I wish you the best of luck, and hope that my note gives you an amount of hope.
There's always hope. You could get some Python - perhaps start going through some Coursera courses (to show that you're actively learning, and will help reestablish your confidence - I've seen people quote numerous on-line courses and it's always a major plus) and try to get even a low-level job at a tech company, then work your way up. I regularly see manual QA people move to test automation, then move to working directly on products.
Even if you don't get a job at a 'tech' company, there is some sort of tech at all companies - and it's more important to be working in a field that you like and transfer to a more interesting company than to be coming from gig work.
I was 30 when I took a major step back to reevaluate. I had some positive professional experiences that I was able to use as building blocks, but I was severely underpaid and underchallenged. I was on the road to nowhere, and certainly not retirement.
I gave myself a year to explore new things and not be an employee. I traveled, lived outside my home country for the first time, learned about startups, taught myself new tech, explored small business ideas and went on a lot of long walks. It was me time and it was glorious.
When I came back to the working world, I found I had a pretty radically changed perspective and I pivoted into a tech career. I have built it up over the past 7 years and now am in a fantastic niche!
You are never too old to redefine yourself and the world has no shortage of problems to solve, but a huge shortage of people willing to really solve them.
I did have background in programming (various WordPress work, some personal learning at PHP, minor projects like a 2D game for myself). I discovered I was able to do it after my wife finished a half-year full-stack bootcamp during which I kept helping / answering all her questions. So I realized I could do it too.
It's certainly doable especially if you go into adjacent fields.
You need two things, a focus, and a real hunger to do the thing you focus on. The time for half measures is probably over. But you have time to dive head first into something.
There is near infinite demand for tech skills. Maybe you can't go work for Google (most of us can't), but there are 1000x as many "non-tech" businesses, big and small, that need tech skills.
The nature of the work meant that I often had 1-2 hours breaks in my schedule. Sometimes a slot wouldn't get booked, or someone would cancel. So I started learning to code, first Ruby on Rails then JavaScript. I took a couple of freelance clients, but didn't really start looking for work until I was 35. By then I'd been hacking on my own for almost 4 years.
Now I'm 40 and my title is Principal JavaScript Engineer. It's only really been like 5.5 years of working full-time in tech, but I love what I do and I'm damned good at it. I'm so grateful this worked out, because I _did_ end up having that hypothetical worse injury in 2021. Between that and the COVID pandemic, if I had stayed in massage or (worse) food service, I would have been seriously screwed.
> Is there any hope for someone like me?
Yes
> Is there any reasonable path to starting over?
Yes
> Where do I even begin
Pick a starting point. I can only speak for the software world, but the fundamental principals are generally the same regardless of your domain or tech choices. Pick a popular language and just start learning to build. Keep building and keep learning until you are able to recognize that you've reached a level of basic competency.
> Will tech co’s ever consider hiring someone like me?
I mistakenly assumed that being self-taught would make it harder to sell myself, but the opposite has been true. I'm not saying getting that first job wasn't challenging, but in general, I think my story makes me an attractive hire. Software development typically involves a lot of autodidactic learning, so someone who taught themselves is doubly prepared.
The first job is hard to get, but if you aren't picky and you try hard, you'll get it eventually. It's worth it. Once you're in, you're in.
Eric Yuan founded Zoom at the age of 41.
David Baszucki was 41 years old when he created Roblox with cofounder Erik Cassel, who was 36 at the time.
Stan Lee created his first hit comic, "The Fantastic Four," just shy of his 39th birthday, in 1961.
Samuel L. Jackson has been a Hollywood staple for years now, but he'd had only bit parts before landing an award-winning role at age 43 in Spike Lee's film "Jungle Fever" in 1991.
I don't know how many of these examples you need, but all I can say is you can ignore the past. Do what you need to do, have some faith and just look forward.
Yuan had been working on online teleconferencing since 1997 and was managing a team of 800 at Cisco when he left 13 years later. He didn't career-switch, he doubled down on his career.
Baszucki graduated from Stanford in computer science in 1985 and had been working on physics simulation software since the late 80s, with Cassel. He sold that simulation startup in 1998 for $20 million. Roblox didn't ship for two years and didn't take off for almost 10 years, by which point Cassel was dead of cancer.
Lee worked in comics at the same company since he was 17 in 1939, had his first writing credit on a Captain America book two years later, and was named interim editor the same year and never left the role. He was considering switching careers out of comics right before writing the Fantastic Four, but he started working in pulp and comic fiction as a teenager and never left.
Samuel L. Jackson graduated from Morehouse in drama and founded a theater in 1972 at 24 years old, and had been a professional stage actor since he was 32; his first feature film role was in the same year. Morgan Freeman was his mentor. "Jungle Fever" was his fourth Spike Lee film; his performance as a crack cocaine addict came after exiting rehab when his heroin addiction turned into a coke addiction.
Well I guess technically he licenced the idea from the McDonald brothers single restaurant but he founded what we think of as McDonalds.
Whatever you think of their "food" it's still a great example of an older founder.