HN Explorer

Tell HN: Thank you for being fast, almost ad-free and text-only

1042 points by nojvek ↗ HN
I’ve been visiting HN for more than a day. Almost daily.

While Reddit, Digg, FB, Twitter etc have jammed in more features and ads looking like posts, HN has remained high signal to noise ratio.

Thank you for that.

As I get older, my brain is unable to deal with ads and too much flashy imagery/videos.

HN is an oasis.

My only ask is to revisit CSS a bit and make it mobile friendly. I.e slightly larger fonts and hit areas for expand/collapse. It’s too easy to hit the wrong button on a phone.

Thank you for keeping HN clean.

204 comments

[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 218 ms ] thread
dumbaccount123
Reddits "new UI" is so bad, surprised they're still trying to save it.
iLoveOncall
Sunk cost fallacy undoubtedly.

Reddit is really unusable for me with the new UI.

marginalia_nu
It's kinda embarrassing. It's been I don't know how many years, and pasting text in the comment field still breaks the new reddit UI.

I don't know how to explain it. Does everyone on the new reddit dev team use old.reddit.com so they don't notice this extremely obvious bug?

CoolGuySteve
Yeah, I find so many bugs in reddit that it's surprising to me that a more streamlined replacement hasn't arisen.

But I get shouted down if I say my experience with Elon's buggy Twitter 2.0 is about on par with how my reddit experience has been for years and yet reddit is still massively popular. Shrug.

I guess it's hard to believe that sometimes market conditions can overcome bad engineering and then you add all the politics around Twitter's layoffs and people get raw.

capableweb
> But I get shouted down if I say my experience with Elon's buggy Twitter 2.0

What visible changes have been done since Elon took over Twitter + are buggy changes? I hardly notice anything different to be honest. There is a view counter and more people have the blue checkmark, otherwise things mostly seems to be the same. The ads panel (for publishing ads) is as broken as it has always been, so seems it has neither improved nor declined.

marginalia_nu
I've had a few instances of data inconsistencies. Like a tweet says it has three likes, but you check which who's liked it it's only one person.

Still very far from the same league as new reddit's jank.

CoolGuySteve
Well here's what the people who said reddit is great and Twitter sucks yelled at me:

- They went down in Australia for a day.

- The "For You" tab keeps selecting itself.

- The Twitter feed keeps injecting randos that aren't followed.

- Nothing is there when you click on a notification sometimes. There are phantom likes and retweets.

- For a while people were unable to change their display name or 2FA would break.

- The view counter doesn't match the analytics view counter.

- Latencies are high

Apparently nobody can agree if a website is bad. Depending on whatever you're arguing, one is great and the other is terrible.

As for reddit, I've been getting phantom notifications, incorrect comment counts on posts, and a 10-15 minute block of "Reddit is down" pages on a monthly basis for years. So as far as I'm concerned, they're both pretty bad.

cloudking
Try https://teddit.net
avree
It's like the old reddit UI, but... broken (at least on Safari on Mac OS)
dewey
Why not just https://old.reddit.com?
dredmorbius
1. At a certain point, the dark patterns are just not worth rewarding.

2. Teddit rewrites all Reddit URLs to the Teddit host. Reading Reddit via old you'll still be redirected to the standard "new" site if "www.reddit.com" is hardcoded into a link, and it very, very, very frequently is.

3. Teddit's persistence works even if you're not logged in (which is to say: always, as you can't log in via a Teddit instance). Reddit's "just set your profile preference to "old" requires logging in and can lure you into visiting or posting "www.reddit.com" links rather than "old.reddit.com" links.

Cumulative dark patterns on Reddit spurred me to all but entirely abandon the site years ago. I no longer post updates to my own (several) subreddits, nor actively moderate (again several), though with some regrets on that last (a dark pattern itself).

I'll occasionally visit to research something, or post for support for tools which principally use Reddit for support (DuckDuckGo, Firefox, and Onyx, presently). That's ... down to a few times a year.

jack_riminton
Yep, absolutely horrible. Thank god they still allow old.reddit.com

The iphone app is even worse. The swiping UX is seemingly random, video player is terrible etc etc

[deleted]
(comment deleted)
kibwen
For me, the worst thing is how few comments show up by default in the comments sections. As a moderator of a large subreddit, the new UI is unusable because I can't quickly glance over a massive thread, I'd have to click through to a hundred sub-pages. If they ever remove old.reddit.com, I don't know what I'd do. It's a shame, because the redesign has some actually useful tools that I'd like to be using, but the basic experience is so poor. Every other aspect of the redesign could be fixed in the client with CSS rules, and the slowness and bloat could at least be tolerated.
ryandrake
It's madness. Even old.reddit.com is littered with "load more comments" links that you have to keep clicking through to read. A comments section with 2000 comments should be easy to serve in a single static page. It's just text!
dang
I agree and it will be a fine day when HN doesn't do that anymore.
dewey
Reddit without using https://apolloapp.io is impossible for me. I wonder when they start cutting off third party apps like Twitter.
Someone1234
Once Old.Reddit and third party apps like Apollo go away, I'm done with Reddit. I'm already interested in competitors if anything crops up that might be a suitable replacement.

Unfortunately they're already funneling rich media into their own broken solutions, so things like streaming video is unreliable if people upload it to Reddit directly.

colesantiago
Agreed, I wish more sites were like HN, fast, free and ad-free, text only and no bullshit algorithmic garbage shoved in my face.

All it needs is dark mode and it's perfect.

cloudking
+1 dark mode on mobile would be great. They let you customize the color of the header when you get 500 points, it would be nice to allow custom CSS as a feature (without extensions).
nayuki
HN's front page is algorithmically determined, but not personalized to each user.
NKosmatos
Hey, anyone knows where do I pay the 8$/month for the dark mode and some slight style/CSS alterations? :-)
spaniard89277
I completely agree on this. I have nothing of substance to add, just say thank you.
dewey
I know what you are saying and I agree and am grateful for it's existance but keep in mind that HN is a marketing tool of a big VC fund.

It has money to pay a moderator and doesn't need to directly make money from it by putting ads or tracking scripts up like other sites.

dredmorbius
Appropriately motivated and principled patronage ... is a fairly good media model.

Far superior to naked advertising. On par with public or membership sponsorship.

mopsi
People often say that the internet would die without intrusive ad tracking. HN is a pretty good example of the opposite, and there are many others. An electronics store I frequent hosts old-school electronics forum, a nearby youth hobby center hosts news and forums for scale model building, and so forth.
Sohcahtoa82
The smaller your audience, the less likely you are to get trolls and just the general population of morons.
dredmorbius
True, though if that's your starting cohort, or they do move in in any significant way, You Now Are Having Troll Problem.

Another element is that HN's audience is largely self-segmenting such that targeted advertising would probably offer little additional benefit. The startup-founder and tech-worker pools are already global and are largely automatically segmented (filtered for) by HN's content, site dynamics, and reputation.

dang
> It has money to pay a moderator and doesn't need to directly make money from it

Yes, that's the sweet spot that HN ended up in, kind of by historical accident, and it seems to be a local optimum.

If we had to make money from HN in any of the standard squeezy ways, it would get worse, which would degrade if not ruin the community. It would also be a miserable slog and who would want to work on that? so the quality would go down that way too. There are a lot of gradients along which the quality would go down.

Because we don't have to do that, we can focus on just trying to keep the community happy, which boils down to trying to keep HN as good as possible. It's incredibly satisfying to just have to make something good. (Not that it is good...but that's a separate question, and this is the internet and we get graded on a curve.)

There are a bunch of old comments here about how we/I think about HN vis-à-vis YC's business interests, if anyone is curious - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....

dredmorbius
The text-only / ad-free nature probably explains a fair bit of my own ... enthusiastic ... readership of HN (recent comment on which: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34490839>).

As for CSS tweaks, I've applied some modest changes to the basic style which are linked in my profile:

Dred's HN CSS Madhackery: <https://pastebin.com/gLXiqKyd>

Dred's HN CSS Madhackery -- Dark Mode: <https://pastebin.com/6PF3dCXH>

Both can be applied using a CSS style management extension such as Stylus:

<https://add0n.com/stylus.html>

(For Firefox, Chrome, & Opera.)

gigama
Thanks for these helpful links and tweaks. Customization and code sharing -- both in keeping with true hacker ethos.

Got a good chuckle from the Stylus plugin privacy policy:

"Unlike other similar extensions, we don't find you to be all that interesting. Your questionable browsing history should remain between you and the NSA. Stylus collects nothing. Period."

asim
Bring back text only services! Everything should be accessible in some simple text UI that's simple and clean. I don't think that's possible by stripping back websites, maybe layers on RSS feeds, APIs with a new UX, etc, etc.
ploum
You may be interested by Gemini…
tapoxi
How does Gemini compare to Gopher?

Slightly related, HN is available via gopher://hngopher.com

ploum
Main differences are: - Gemini is conceptually simpler (no difference between map and text, straightforward URLs) - Gemini is easy to write (unlike gopher maps) - Gemini has mandatory tls (which may or may not be an advantage)

But Gemini was created from within the Gopher community and there are very strong links between Gemini/Gopher users. Most Gemini browsers are also Gopher browsers.

(My own turned into a web browser and RSS reader. I only need to add mail reading to have a complete office suite, see https://sr.ht/~lioploum/offpunk/ )

rchaud
lite.cnn.io has been a revelation
kibwen
As others will be quick to point out, HN does have ads in the form of job postings for YCombinator startups that are delivered inline with the links on the front page. That said, it's relatively unobtrusive. And of course, the existence of HN is a large part of the marketing for YCombinator itself. Personally, I'll commend dang for doing a high-effort job at moderation, and tolerating all the dunking on Paul Graham that we do.
Rooster61
Ads that I won't see unless I actually have interest in them? That's not very web 5.0...
amelius
But ... these job postings are difficult to discern from other posts. At least Google puts "Ad" in front of ads ...
guntherhermann
A giveaway is that you can't comment on them :)
capableweb
Nor do they have points, you can't upvote or flag them. They do stick out a bit and are easy to ignore.
dredmorbius
There are several userscripts to block those.

<https://github.com/brownie-in-motion/hn-adblock>, discussed: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31597486>

Another: <https://gist.github.com/pxeger/4aed4baaa87028a2ecc6441a84a1f...>

(I've used neither.)

I've briefly looked into managing these through CSS alone. Not obviously that I can tell, though the text of job listings should match the pattern:

  <company> (YC <class> ) Is Hiring <position>
I think CSS can act based on content, but need to look at selectors for that.

SO suggests not: <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1520429/is-there-a-css-s...>

HN doesn't assign a distinctive class to these posts, though the "votelinks" class is missing, which can be used to highlight the listings. E.g.:

  /* HN startup job ads */

  .athing td:nth-of-type(2):not(.votelinks) {
      background: #fcc;
  }

  .athing td:nth-of-type(2):not(.votelinks):before {
      content: "Ad";
      position: relative;
      left: 0.4em;
      color: #000;
  }
(Other properties might be set.)

I'd need to futz with this some more to see if the entire entry could be dropped, though I'd prefer to simply have them stand out, I think...

eipi10_hn
If you are using ublock, you can use these filters

    news.ycombinator.com##.athing:not(:has(.votelinks))
    news.ycombinator.com##.athing:not(:has(.votelinks)) + tr
    news.ycombinator.com##.athing:not(:has(.votelinks)) + tr + tr
29athrowaway
It is done with a lot for respect for the reader, and in a non intrusive way.

There's no profiling or targeting of users. Everyone sees the same ads.

colesantiago
There should be a way to remove all ads from HN on the account level.
tiotempestade
> As others will be quick to point out, HN does have ads in the form of job postings for YCombinator startups that are delivered inline with the links on the front page.

The way all ads should be? :)

Succinct, relevant and unobtrusive

barbs
And non-tracking!
eliasdaler
The ads should be clearly marked as ads, in my opinion.

I hate when social media sites hide ads by making them look like regular posts. It’s a dark pattern.

wkat4242
They're marked as job postings which is really what they are. Nobody will look at them unless they're looking for a job and if so, why not?

It's a very different story from ads on other social networks imo.

henning
True, but those job ads are text-only and unlikely to contain malware. Normal web ads are the opposite in both regards.
jedberg
> and tolerating all the dunking on Paul Graham that we do.

Who wouldn't enjoy some friendly ribbing of their boss's boss? :)

vlunkr
Those ads are also very likely to be relevant to HN users relative to typical internet ads.
93po
I use hckrnews.com and everyone else should too. Not seeing those ads is a nice side effect
slim
Not sure jobs are the only form of advertising. Sometimes I feel like some domain names like substack are pumped up
ipaddr
Ad free? This is all part of one big ad. Ads are not evil though.. tracking might be.
powera
Well, actually, it's not "ad-free". There are fairly regular job ads for YCombinator companies on the home page.
dredmorbius
But:

1. Not within articles or threads. Contrast, say, the Washington Post which is currently inserting ... four ... ad placements per story ... and that's just within the text of a story itself. That excludes other interstitial nags ("see also" which are often very thinly-related if at all items), sign-ups, pop-ups, etc.

(I'd recalled this being higher, four is still a few too many, but less than I'd thought.)

And it's not just the ads themselves, but the motivations created around them for clickbait, sensationalism, etc., etc.

Contextually-appropriate service-oriented (e.g., jobs) notices ... seem a highly reasonable option. Note too that HN also runs a free "who's hiring" and "who wants to be hired" thread monthly.

rchaud
There is plenty of sensationalism in the comments, when the topics are similar to those that newspapers would discuss.

Take for example the recent spate of techco layoffs. I think you'll find the discussion is not nearly as polite and detached as those on regular nerd stuff would be (Rust, React, Static Site Generators etc).

dredmorbius
True.

Though I make liberal use of the "collapse" toggle, and try to prioritise original content over comments (not entirely successfully, I'll admit).

dang
Ok, I've squeezed an 'almost' in the title above. I suppose that's not strictly accurate either but I don't want to spoil the OP's sentiment too much.
pcurve
I visit HN a few dozen times a day. For it, it's like the stumbledupon with ability to comment. Best of both worlds.
alpenbazi
very true, i fully commit to that statement
schemescape
Mobile friendly CSS is long overdue :)
dredmorbius
What would that entail?

Note that HN's page structure (table-based design) makes some things in pure CSS ... challenging.

Oras
Totally agree.

But I noticed I only accept this format from HN. I've seen some services tried to do the same or follow the same style and I wasn't as engaged with them.

I suppose for HN because that's how it started, and I am confident about the quality of links/articles/comments. That's how I picture the value.

amelius
It is kind of ironic that so many professionals come to HN for a breath of fresh air, after which they continue building the UX they were escaping from in the first place.
abraxas
Most visitors to HN are unlikely to have a significant voice in defining the UX of things they build for a living.
amelius
I thought this was a place for startup founders.
zamadatix
Sure, and a lot of other folks too.
satvikpendem
The culture has shifted over the last 15 years or so. Initially it was indeed for YC and YC adjacent founders, but it evolved into a general tech news and tech workers forum. I'm not sure of any other good startup-specific forum that hasn't descended into spamming links rather than cultivating good discussion.
low_tech_punk
Most stakeholders with voice in defining the UX of things they build for a living do not visit HN.
amelius
I see many posts on HN about how to design a good UX. Are these posts made for the wrong audience?
pwinnski
The hope is that the audience for these posts, generally indie developers building new sites from scratch, will one day be able to shape the existing large sites that can afford to employ the majority of developers.

The reality is that the existing large sites that can afford to employ the majority of developers have PMs that mandate the horrific UX we encounter day to day.

SilasX
Right -- I joke that HN's design weeds out people who both a) need a site to look glamorous, and b) are incapable of modifying it on their end to look that way. That probably has significant overlap with UX designers who determine other sites' looks!
eschulz
It is, although I guess that's common in the modern world where mass value is created in an assembly line workplace
Justsignedup
honestly, to me its not the UX.

- it is a lack of disinformation, people here tend to push conversations in the right direction

- it is a lack of advertising and bullshit articles

It is like Craigslist. Everyone and their mother has tried to re-design craigslist, with yearly graveyards of competitors.

The problem is CL's interface isn't the product. It is _already_ extremely useful, and so to get people to leave CL you'd need to give a value add on top of what seems to already be a pretty feature packed service.

askiiart
> it is the lack of disinformation, people here tend to push conversations in the right direction

Also due to the fantastic moderation (thanks dang!)

Jerrrry
My only (primary, continuous, and ignored) complaint is that OP's text post's contrast matches the contrast of less-useful comments, making every Self-HN post seem subconsciously and automatically downvoted.

It was "tradition,"? No, it's archaic and ironic for a site with so many A11y/accessibility advocates.

kzrdude
I agree. The comment section teaches the user to be suspicous of grayed-out comments, but then if we post a text post it's also grayed-out.
thefifthsetpin
I am just now realizing that greyed out text posts weren't downvoted.
yonz
I believed the same thing for a while
coldpie
I emailed them once asking to change that and kind of got a shrug in response. Maybe more emails will convince them?
Jerrrry
Another user mentioned the reply basically cited tradition.

@dang, can we ever get a reply to this?

either an excuse or an 0xFF in a .css stylesheet, please?

valtism
I also emailed them. Was asked for a minimal change to make it better and I suggested changing adding a class to the <td> to color: #333. This was in August 2021 but it hasn't been changed.
LLyaudet
I thought the grey color for main post was to discourage us of reading it and to make us: - look only at the shared link when there is some, - or use the reader mode of our web-browser, - or make it harder to read and create a relief when we go back to our source code, ;)
LLyaudet
But definitely, I would vote in favor of better contrast for main post.
habibur
PG did it in the early days, as far as I can recall. The point was to discourage descriptive posts, preventing it from turning into reddit, and rather encourage posts linking to tech materials.
Jerrrry
emphasizing the <a> elements is practically, semantically, and technically easier than de-emphasizing the entire post text node.
eric4smith
Sometimes capitalism works!
SpeedilyDamage
This site is wholly subsidized by YC and could not stand on its own, so I'm not sure it's a straightforward example of capitalism working...
smbullet
How is this not a straightforward example of capitalism? This site is privately owned, therefore it is free to flow in the capital market.
SpeedilyDamage
It's not a straightforward example of capitalism because it doesn't earn enough through its service to support itself, and must be propped up by an otherwise external entity.

The concept of "private ownership" is not definitionally identical to the concept of "capitalism", I hope you realize...

smbullet
Private ownership and the protection of those property rights are exactly what capitalism is. As long as there is no coercive entity dictating what YC can and cannot do with it's capital then HN absolutely is a product of capitalism.

Capitalism doesn't mean "earn[ing] enough through its service to support itself". Why do you think that people are not free to finance sites that promote other branches of their business under capitalism?

SpeedilyDamage
People are free to finance whatever they want, I don't care, it's just not a "straightforward" example of capitalism when they do.

Spend money to make a thing -> sell that thing for more than it cost to make it. That's not happening here.

smbullet
That's an interesting misconception of what capitalism is. I had not seen that one before. Thank you for sharing.
SpeedilyDamage
For what it's worth, I Googled "Define: capitalism" and when I saw:

> an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.

I synthesized this to what I wrote above. If you disagree that's fine, but I think "for profit" is a critical aspect of capitalism, and while it's arguably true that HN provides YC with "a profit" it's an intangible and indirect one, which to me is not "straightforwardly capitalistic".

smbullet
I'll admit I was a bit snarky but my thanks was genuine - I enjoy learning why people believe the things they do.

Anyways, my final argument is if an individual asset of a company doesn't directly generate revenue yet increases company profit, would it not be "un-capitalistic" if that company were to extinguish that asset? It seems to me that throwing away profit would be antithetical to that definition of capitalism.

The $30k espresso machine in the Google office does nothing to generate revenue, however it helps Google become more competitive in the labor market which (at least they think) increases profit. None of these situations are edge cases, they are just natural outcomes that exist when people are free to compete. If it is expected that a decision will lead to a profit, it seems straightforward that one would make that decision.

It was fun discussing this with you, I hope you have a good day.

SpeedilyDamage
That sounds capitalistic, just not "straightforward" is all I was trying to say.
dang
That's an interesting question. It's true that HN doesn't earn revenue and that it could not stand on its own. But it's also true that YC is more valuable with HN than without it. I think you have to mark that in capitalism's column, even if it's a weird edge case.

Maybe more companies should be more open to more weird edge cases and maybe that would make them richer and therefore more capitalist? I don't know.

SpeedilyDamage
My focus was on the word "straightforward" more so than trying to argue that HN isn't "capitalism".

It's definitely capitalism, and arguably highly effective at that, I just don't think it's "straightforward" is all.

dang
Ah ok. I agree!
kzrdude
Thank you HN for showing (essentially) the same list of stories on the front page for everyone. A shared display of common topics is a good foundation for a good forum.
amelius
How do you know this is true?
kzrdude
I'm guessing from what I see in incognito mode and logged-in. One reason I have a caveat in there, is that there is a button called hide, so you don't have to see particular stories.
amelius
I was referring to the last sentence. How do you know this is a good foundation for a good forum?
dang
We don't know that it's true, but what kzrdude described is definitely part of the mental model (or, if you like, the DNA) of the site.

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=silo%20by%3Adang&dateRange=all...

kzrdude
That was interesting, thank you. I had picked up some of that by osmosis of course, but not read all that you linked to.
asdff
OTOH it changes dramatically with time and certain topics seem to end up below the fold, even if its a couple hours old post with a lot of engagement. I wish there was a chronological sort with a threshold vote filter, I guess I can get that from hnrss though.
93po
hckrnews.com is exactly what you are asking for, I use it exclusively
nonrandomstring
HN looks just perfect using w3m text browser, no js, no css. The clean HTML makes it feel like something running from a local server. Plus there's no "cloudflare" type nonsense blocking my Tor overlay. Excellent straightforward web.
frosted-flakes
Clean HTML? It's nested spaghetti tables, which makes it super hard to write user styles for.
dang
> hard to write user styles for

Yes and that's probably the one thing that would get us to rework the HTML. That or if we could significantly reduce its size.

Otherwise I see that HTML table goop as an advantage—the consequence of a clever design by pg years ago, which pays off every time I get to work on the code - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu....

I was going to add "and also a curmudgeonly throne to sit on" but maybe I'd better not.

flanbiscuit
IMO, Reddit is still usable but only via https://old.reddit.com. I still use Reddit daily, but I can't stand the horrific new design. I also highly curate my subscribed subreddits and use multireddits to combine subject matters.

On Android I use Reddit Sync[1] (which has an ad-free pro version I paid a one-time $5 fee for).

I worry about the day they discontinue old.reddit.com, or decide to cripple third-party apps in order to steer people toward their official apps. I wouldn't put it past them to do something like this. All it takes is a new CEO, or their investors, wanting to see more profit. They'll probably lose users but I bet the amount of people who use Reddit like I do is decreasing over time (speculation, maybe I'm wrong) so it might not be a significant amount.

1. https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Red+Apps+LTD...

Semaphor
All I can say is that when I post copies of code or recipes, but with the markdown fixed for old, I usually get quite a lot of upvotes. So depending on the sub it might be significant (of course, I’m also not in any huge subs).
flanbiscuit
I really hope it's significant! Keep old.reddit.com alive!

Was wondering if they provide stats for this anywhere and apparently they do on a per-subreddit level that only mods can see:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/m2615l/what...

Look at the unique pageview charts, it seems like old.reddit.com is just a bit higher than new reddit but not by much.

This user[1] posted a graph[2] from a much larger subreddit. They didn't mention which but they moderate quite a few subreddits but I think this one if from /r/Minecraft.

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/m2615l/what...

2. https://i.imgur.com/dUYWZNd.png

bambax
I too only use Reddit via old.reddit.com; if it was ever discontinued I would stop using it... but I don't think I would miss it much.
cainxinth
The funny thing is old.reddit is reddit. It’s the actual content I want to see. The new design is just a layer of cruft on top that I don’t want.
sbayeta
I've been browsing Reddit using Reddit is Fun on android and it's a delight to use.
ptasci67
Just as an alternate data point, I personally prefer the new design as I find it more inviting, and easier to browse on mobile. I think both should exist because there are enough people who prefer the old way but it does beg the question of whether it is worth supporting both from an engineering perspective. I'm sure it has a real cost to Reddit.
flanbiscuit
For mobile web, I can see how the new design would be an improvement there. The old site doesn't even support mobile.

I posted a reply to another comment here about some of their stats accessible to mods of subreddits. So far it seems to me that enough people use old.reddit.com to make it worth it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34506885

[deleted]
(comment deleted)
CoolGuySteve
I feel like there's a systemic issue in modern software that HN is immune to. After an initial success, companies will hire tons of project managers and engineers to build new features and continue their growth. The result is a corporate paperclip optimizer.

The problem is that these features won't get used and nobody gets promoted if they're not pushed to the front of UI so you end up with cluttered interfaces loaded with popups and other misfeatures.

Reddit's new interface is a good example of this, but gmail has the same problem. Shit, even QuickTime/Real Player used to fight over Windows file extensions and taskbar icons in the 90s and it was horrible.

Because Y Combinator's business model is different, HN more or less stays the same. It's kind of like open source Unix utilities in that way, nobody's pushing modal ads into the ls command.

wildrhythms
Well said, and I see this happening all around me at <big corp>. Every project manager "needs" their feature front and center in the UI, and "needs" to educate the user on the fact that it exists! So you end up with annoying new feature bubbles pointing to the thing. And when it comes to measuring engagement, dismissing the feature bubble counts as a win!
one-another-dev
I'll be a counterpoint to Reddit argument. I started out using the new reddit and I find it more usable than old.reddit site.

Also old.reddit has very wide text lengths which makes reading a chore compared to new one where the character limit per line is conservative.

mostlysimilar
Hot take: I think the lack of mobile support is a feature, not a bug. Mobile interfaces are responsible for much of the noise of mainstream social media, they encourage short form content creation because the interface is too simplistic and typing on a tiny touchscreen keyboard is unpleasant and error-prone. By making the only viable interface a desktop interface you put up an additional barrier to that type of noise.
ChrisMarshallNY
I’m reading this on a phone, right now, and it’s perfectly usable.
tppiotrowski
I think parent meant that mobile phone creation should be discouraged. Mobile phone consumption is no issue.
ChrisMarshallNY
Fair 'nuff, but creating any kind of text content is a big fat pain, on most mobile devices. I'm not sure how much site design can help. This site is about as good as you'll get, there.
raverbashing
Yeah, it's very usable on mobile

It uses very little data, making it also useful to test those "is my connection bad or is it the website that's down?" cases

asdff
OK now try and upvote this comment without missing the arrow. If you do, you have a lot more dexerity than I do at least. Its usable but certain elements are a little too small where it makes me misclick.
ChrisMarshallNY
Yeah, the arrows could be a bit bigger, and have more gutter. I agree.
capableweb
If you look at the HN stylesheet (https://news.ycombinator.com/news.css) there is actually some minor work being done to make it easier to use on mobile. It used to be much worse than what it is today.

I use HN for both browsing and commenting on my phone plenty, although it could always be easier and there are some warts.

asdff
The HN interface is mostly fine but the vote buttons certainly need to increase by 100% for mobile versions. I can't reliably hit them without zooming in quite a lot. It wouldn't dumb down the UI or anything to make the hitbox larger for these arrows if your viewport is so large.
gardenhedge
Agreed. Anything that has a mobile user base is pretty awful.

See: Twitter, Reddit, TikTok, FB

aliqot
I wouldn't call it ad-free, but it is free from overt ads.
jiripospisil
I do find it hilarious that almost every day you read about a new shiny CSS / JS framework here on HN, all the while HN itself is using tables for layout. Hell, some pages don't have design at all (login page)! Maybe worse really is better.
janitor61
This might date me but I'd love to see a resurgence of the Gopher protocol - maybe a touch more modernized, but still just plain text files with hyperlinks. Some sort of public-commons version of the overcommercialized web where advertising is very difficult but information is dense and discoverable.
efreak
Gemini?
everybodyknows
https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ rather than the like-named crypto site. I found no way to sample current discussions i.e. read-only, from a web browser -- software installation seems required.
efreak
That's the one, yes. There's two web proxies listed on that page for browsing Gemini with a web browser.