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Ask HN: Is PayPal an open scam at this point?

39 points by trescomas ↗ HN
Long story short, somebody accidentally sent me money, my PayPal account has "Sorry, we couldn’t confirm it’s you" error.

Sender started dispute and because I couldn't respond PayPal awarded it to my locked account.

There is no way to get in touch with a human. Can't contact them from my account at all, twitter/fb getting only bots, 3rd day I was waiting 2h on the phone...

We are in disbelief.

edit: A lot of people think that I am getting scammed, that is 100%, not the case. I know who the person is, I did paypal transaction with them before. They aren't asking me to send them money, they just made a mistake and wanted the original transaction reversed. It happens.

27 comments

[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 69.6 ms ] thread
trescomas
Just to give some context, the sender is from 3rd world country and this is a very meaningful amount for them. I got caught in the middle and feel just horrible.
dec0dedab0de
how did they accidentally send you money? Are you sure it is not a scam to get you to feel bad and pay them back through another channel before they do the process to reclaim the funds from paypal?
trescomas
100% not a scam, I bought something from this person before and paid via paypal. They didn't ask to send anything extra, just to help reverse the original transaction.
sjsdaiuasgdia
Having a single successful transaction with someone is not much of a guarantee that they will not attempt to scam you in the future. I could even see the initial transaction being a way to find potential victims and establish trust.
crazygringo
This is precisely how many successful scams work. They establish a small "legitimate" transaction so you think they're trustworthy, then they "accidentally" send you a much larger amount of money.

Then there's a "problem" reversing that larger transaction (as you are experiencing at this very moment) so they ask you to repay the money via a different channel... then as soon as they get that money, the original transaction magically gets reversed as well. Boom, you've now paid them twice. You got scammed.

(You may also be having problems accessing your PayPal account precisely because PayPal has flagged you as having received money from a stolen credit card, which is what scammers often use for that larger transaction.)

taylodl
This. So much this. The OP is outraged Paypal is preventing them from getting scammed using a well-known scamming technique.
roundandround
I think such scams are usually done to get cash from stolen accounts, so even if you know the real owner there may be a scammer involved trying to get you to pay the out of band.
jcadam
I closed my PayPal account some time ago. I'd heard too many horror stories like this one.
shmatt
If you don't respond PP give the benefit to the person submitting the ticket. Meaning they would have gotten their money back, and PP would not have awarded it to the person not responding

Generally this sounds off, but these "HN help me get customer support" posts are getting a bit too much

PaulHoule
I use Paypal to buy stuff on ebay all the time. My wife got locked out more than 10 years ago for no good reason, so I buy things for her if she wants something on ebay.
LeoPanthera
No, it's (obviously?) not a scam.

I think honest people perhaps don't realize how devious dishonest people can be, and trying to scam money out other people via PayPal, or even out of PayPal directly, is a common, frequent, everyday occurrence.

This isn't unique to PayPal. Any payments service is going to spend an enormous amount of time trying to deal with that problem. When it goes wrong, as it occasionally inevitably will, people are very loud about it.

PayPal does have a phone number, in the USA it is 1-888-221-1161, 6:00 AM PT to 6:00 PM PT. Other ways include a text chat service: https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/contact-us

partdavid
My last experience with this phone support, with errors in my account, was extremely time-consuming and unsatisfying. This was some years ago so I can't say whether it's better or mine was an isolated experience. But it was one of the worst single customer service experiences I've had with a company.
LeoPanthera
I'm sure that's true but there's a difference between "poor customer service" and "scam".
partdavid
Absolutely agree--not a fan of hyperbole in that.
IvanK_net
Back in 2019, my business partner sent me $30,000 USD over PayPal. PayPal took a fee of $1,690. At some cases, it is cheaper to buy a plane ticket and travel to get money in person. A year later, they have introduced an additional withdrawal fee of 3%.

** My business partner had problems with a wire transfer, so PayPal seemed as the easiest solution.

crazygringo
Nothing about this makes any sense. What you're describing (from your comment) is somebody in the third world who sent money to you... which is a common scam to take advantage of you. It's not PayPal scamming them, it's them trying to scam you.

And second, locking your account but also not returning the money to the sender isn't a thing PayPal is known for doing. You don't explain why you aren't able to recover your account (you should be able to prove ownership of your e-mail/phone number/bank account), and you also aren't explaining how you know the money hasn't been, or isn't being, returned.

In any case, none of this has anything to do with HN, nor does it support your question/accusation of PayPal being an "open scam". PayPal does lots of crappy things, but this in particular doesn't seem to be one of them.

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woogley
I just closed mine recently, for a lot of reasons piling up over the years (like Ally not being recognized as a real bank... rich coming from PayPal)

But most recently the unrelenting flood of money requests, with no ability to disable the feature, is finally what got me to move on

IvanK_net
I accept payment cards and PayPal in my SaaS. The PayPal option costs 10% more money (I tell the client about it in advance). Half of people still chooses to pay with PayPal.
hiidrew
I'm going to start shifting away from my Paypal usage after having some complications with disputing a charge. Never received the item and the process has taken about a month. I mistakenly assumed their dispute resolution was on par with Amex's, but I stand corrected.

No point in using unless I absolutely have to. Convenience sometimes bites you in the ass.

ht85
Paypal is nice as a credit card proxy, I use it from time to time on low quality or shady e-commerce. Those website also tend to support Paypal checkout, removing the need to enter my details or create an account.

Their track record has repeatedly shown that you shouldn't keep a balance on it. If you're a seller, you should look into an alternative that has a functioning support process.

trescomas
I don't know how this got flagged, if I can appeal to emotion, the sender that lost money, is a nurse and this is almost a monthly salary for her... If somebody can help, please send me a message.
trescomas
Also again, this is not a scam against me. I am tech savy guy, I know who this person is, sometimes accidents happen... They are not asking me to send them extra money or anything, just to reverse the original transaction.
gaws
> I don't know how this got flagged

The flag is correct. HN is not your personal space for grievances.

amalgamated_inc
Can confirm PP is total garbage. Can not get in touch with anyone. My "horror story" is the opposite of yours.

I make a transaction. Item arrives. Money presumably arrives for vendor. Everybody is happy.

Then, out of nowhere, PayPal opens a complaint on my behalf. The vendor is confused, why did I complain? I didn't, but there's no way to enter that into the automated complaint form. I could not reach a real person, and in the end the vendor got a ding and I got money back that I didn't want for a product I had received successfully and that I was happy with. No way to cancel this kafkaesque nonsense in any way.

I never used PayPal again.

Reptur
Paypal is not a bank, but it acts like one, and they can and will freeze your account for minor things. I recall a big donation fund being shut down years ago and the only recourse was refunding to senders, but the international senders they just kept the money because they didn't feel like converting it back to their currency. They do not have regulations like a bank, so your money is really in their hands and you will have no recourse. I always recommend avoiding Paypal.